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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:21 am 
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Sometimes a midfield team just needs that extra bit of quality in a key area to push them to the front.

In 2014 McLaren and Ferrari were substandard, the former brought in Alonso, the latter Vettel.
BAR signed JV
Merc brought back Michael
Lotus signed Kimi

Going off on a tangent slightly but this kind of move always reminds me of why Toyota never won anything. 2005-2009 they were getting podiums with Ralf, Jarno and Glock. They had all the resources except for a top driver, what if they'd pushed the boat out and tried to get Michael and/or Montoya for 2007, or Alonso in 2008 after the McLaren shambles, or had they stuck around in 2010, tried to get Kimi with Kobayashi.

Renault are doing what Toyota never did to get them to that next level. Fair play, I think they will do quite well. Could certainly challenge Red Bull for podiums, especially if their PU is more reliable.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:57 am 
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kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kleefton wrote:
This would make a lot of sense if we didn't have the Hulk >Sainz and Sainz=Verstappen history.

I just have a strong feeling that Hulk is going to be a lot closer to Ricc than many think. He might even be faster, especially in the first few races.
I'm talking qualifying though. In the races I do believe Ricc is better.

You can't judge drivers when they are rookies, does anyone seriously think that Verstappen in particularly has not improved from his rookie season?



I don’t see why the hell not. Especially when said drivers were both rookies. Surely Sainz has improved too no?

2015 was only Verstappen's second season in car racing, his improvement is quite obvious I would say, Sainz will have improved as well but at that point had far more experience in car racing than Verstappen, I doubt the Hulk would be beating Verstappen in the Renault.


I don't think Hulk would be beating Verstappen in a Renault either, but I think what you are missing here is that they were all racing different generations of cars. These high df cars might not fit the likes of Ricciardo very well, as ever since they have been introduced, Verstappen has gotten the upper hand on Ricc, whereas before that it was Ricc owning Max. So imo all this cross referencing stuff doesn't always work. Hulk will be tough to handle for Ricciardo on Saturdays, and the delta will not be 2 tenths in Ricciardo's favor. You can book it.

Verstappen joined Red Bull in 2016 mid season and was clearly playing catch up, the improvement through the season was plain to see, the further improvement in 2017 was expected, I wouldn't be putting it down to the change of regulations.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:24 pm 
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@pokerman

Looks to me this is the case. The first year Max and Ricciardo were in the same team he still was improving and learning and making it his own. Qualification for example, one aspect he knew he would need to improve on compared to Ricciardo and who better to have as a team mate? :) Raw race pace, Max had Ricciardo beat and they knew it at Red Bull.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:55 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
oz_karter wrote:
Interesting report on the PF1 site:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-thought-ricciardo-was-joking-report/

According to Horner, Red Bull were under the impression Ricciardo was re-signing. They had agreed to a 1-year deal and probably a financial improvement.

The Renault deal is rumoured to be 20M pounds per year. I doubt Red Bull were offering that.

Horner thought Ricciardo was joking when he got the phone call on Thursday. Seems like everyone got a shock.

Red Bull even had a press release and promo ready to go, they were just waiting for the signature.

I wonder what changed Ricciardo's mind? Renault obviously hung a big carrot in the past week.

Yeah a Red Bull insider is saying that it was all about the money, I want the same money as Verstappen, you can't have it, Renault come along and say we will give you that money, Ricciardo's says that will do me.


Yeah and I read somewhere else that it was because he was scared to race Verstappen.

I'm not expecting too many positive comments to come from RB about this.

Please produce your source. That’s a pretty bold statement there and I call BS on it. Ricciardo has gone up against Hamilton and held his own and actually bested him a few times. While verstappen is quite a talented driver, he’s no Hamilton so whomever supposedly made that statement had better have their ducks in a row.

Interestingly enough, the one who appears to be afraid to face someone in Red Bull is Verstappen because it’s being reported he’s trying to block his old teammate Sainz from being given Ricciardo’s seat!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/verstappe ... red-bull/#

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:40 pm 
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backdoc wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
ALESI wrote:

But why did Renault offer Dan so much money? Surely they could have got him for less? They said they weren't interested in getting Alonso back until they could give him a decent car - so why are they paying top dollar for a driver now?


In one swoop they've increased that to $25m a year. A 212% increase.


I hate to be picky and I don’t post often, but $5.75mil to $25mil is a 435% increase.

Just saying.

PS - I’m a Dan fan (read Aussie) and I think this is a smart strategic move. As others have said, if he performs it could put him in the box seat for his choice of a few top seats. If he doesn’t, game over, but at least he’s in control of his own success (as much as you can be in F1).

You're both incorrect.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:49 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
oz_karter wrote:
Interesting report on the PF1 site:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-thought-ricciardo-was-joking-report/

According to Horner, Red Bull were under the impression Ricciardo was re-signing. They had agreed to a 1-year deal and probably a financial improvement.

The Renault deal is rumoured to be 20M pounds per year. I doubt Red Bull were offering that.

Horner thought Ricciardo was joking when he got the phone call on Thursday. Seems like everyone got a shock.

Red Bull even had a press release and promo ready to go, they were just waiting for the signature.

I wonder what changed Ricciardo's mind? Renault obviously hung a big carrot in the past week.

Yeah a Red Bull insider is saying that it was all about the money, I want the same money as Verstappen, you can't have it, Renault come along and say we will give you that money, Ricciardo's says that will do me.


Yeah and I read somewhere else that it was because he was scared to race Verstappen.

I'm not expecting too many positive comments to come from RB about this.

Please produce your source. That’s a pretty bold statement there and I call BS on it. Ricciardo has gone up against Hamilton and held his own and actually bested him a few times. While verstappen is quite a talented driver, he’s no Hamilton so whomever supposedly made that statement had better have their ducks in a row.

Interestingly enough, the one who appears to be afraid to face someone in Red Bull is Verstappen because it’s being reported he’s trying to block his old teammate Sainz from being given Ricciardo’s seat!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/verstappe ... red-bull/#


Speculation at best.

Also, there is no way to compare Hamilton to Verstappen considering the later's limited experience in junior motorsport classes. Verstappen was certainly no worse than Hamilton in karting though.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:53 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
oz_karter wrote:
Interesting report on the PF1 site:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-thought-ricciardo-was-joking-report/

According to Horner, Red Bull were under the impression Ricciardo was re-signing. They had agreed to a 1-year deal and probably a financial improvement.

The Renault deal is rumoured to be 20M pounds per year. I doubt Red Bull were offering that.

Horner thought Ricciardo was joking when he got the phone call on Thursday. Seems like everyone got a shock.

Red Bull even had a press release and promo ready to go, they were just waiting for the signature.

I wonder what changed Ricciardo's mind? Renault obviously hung a big carrot in the past week.

Yeah a Red Bull insider is saying that it was all about the money, I want the same money as Verstappen, you can't have it, Renault come along and say we will give you that money, Ricciardo's says that will do me.


Yeah and I read somewhere else that it was because he was scared to race Verstappen.

I'm not expecting too many positive comments to come from RB about this.

Please produce your source. That’s a pretty bold statement there and I call BS on it. Ricciardo has gone up against Hamilton and held his own and actually bested him a few times. While verstappen is quite a talented driver, he’s no Hamilton so whomever supposedly made that statement had better have their ducks in a row.

Interestingly enough, the one who appears to be afraid to face someone in Red Bull is Verstappen because it’s being reported he’s trying to block his old teammate Sainz from being given Ricciardo’s seat!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/verstappe ... red-bull/#

Ricciardo has never gone up against Hamilton in the same team, I think you might be missing the point being made?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:45 pm 
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No you’re missing it... Ricciardo went up against Hamilton in a superior car and his ability to get his setup right allowed him to set his package up so well he could put his full talent on display and twice now he was faster regardless of only reaching the top step once.


StanB123 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
oz_karter wrote:
Interesting report on the PF1 site:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-thought-ricciardo-was-joking-report/

According to Horner, Red Bull were under the impression Ricciardo was re-signing. They had agreed to a 1-year deal and probably a financial improvement.

The Renault deal is rumoured to be 20M pounds per year. I doubt Red Bull were offering that.

Horner thought Ricciardo was joking when he got the phone call on Thursday. Seems like everyone got a shock.

Red Bull even had a press release and promo ready to go, they were just waiting for the signature.

I wonder what changed Ricciardo's mind? Renault obviously hung a big carrot in the past week.

Yeah a Red Bull insider is saying that it was all about the money, I want the same money as Verstappen, you can't have it, Renault come along and say we will give you that money, Ricciardo's says that will do me.


Yeah and I read somewhere else that it was because he was scared to race Verstappen.

I'm not expecting too many positive comments to come from RB about this.

Please produce your source. That’s a pretty bold statement there and I call BS on it. Ricciardo has gone up against Hamilton and held his own and actually bested him a few times. While verstappen is quite a talented driver, he’s no Hamilton so whomever supposedly made that statement had better have their ducks in a row.

Interestingly enough, the one who appears to be afraid to face someone in Red Bull is Verstappen because it’s being reported he’s trying to block his old teammate Sainz from being given Ricciardo’s seat!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/verstappe ... red-bull/#


Speculation at best.

Also, there is no way to compare Hamilton to Verstappen considering the later's limited experience in junior motorsport classes. Verstappen was certainly no worse than Hamilton in karting though.

Hamilton was indeed superior to Verstappen on karts. He obliterated the competition and on lesser machinery as well. As an experienced karter myself I WILL say for a fact that what Hamilton accomplished in that lesser machinery is loads superior to anything Verstappen ever achieved in karting. Karting is such that machanics have so many little nicknack tricks up their sleeves that produce more power from seemingly identical engines. That’s what brought about the Rotax series. You see with Rotax competition you can only have the motor serviced by factory certified techs who seal every motor they touch with a unique factory issues ID #, and they are not allowed to do anything different to the motors outside factory mandated specs. If so they’ll be stripped of their license and are no longer authorized to touch those motors for competition.

And as for the gains one mechanic can extract from a motor, back in the days when the KT100 ruled the world of karting, somemmechanics couldnsqueeze an additional 10-15% more power usingbthe same parts as everyone else. That had a great deal to do with some drivers dominating their regions and is still prevalent today. And while Verstappen competed against like equipment, his equipment was always top notch. As such his karting career can be compared the Hamilton’s and Hamilton’s accomplishments will always be superior.

That is why Ricciardo beating Hamilton can be used as a benchmark.

Also, not that I did praise Verstappen. I do rate him quite highly, but currently the situation at Red Bull is skewed rather Vettel-Esque in his favor, and even still Ricciardo has shown greater results overall. That has to say something about both.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:03 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Interestingly enough, the one who appears to be afraid to face someone in Red Bull is Verstappen because it’s being reported he’s trying to block his old teammate Sainz from being given Ricciardo’s seat!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/verstappe ... red-bull/#

I don't think Max is afraid of Sainz, but I do think that he dislikes him and doesn't want to swap a driver who appears to be his best friend for an enemy he made back at Toro Rosso. Understandable, if a bit petty. But I 100% think Max would expect to beat Sainz if they were teammates again.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:41 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
No you’re missing it... Ricciardo went up against Hamilton in a superior car and his ability to get his setup right allowed him to set his package up so well he could put his full talent on display and twice now he was faster regardless of only reaching the top step once.

If you are referencing Monaco then I believe that might have had something to do with the Red Bull car, if Verstappen had not crashed in FP3 they would have locked out the front row.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Interestingly enough, the one who appears to be afraid to face someone in Red Bull is Verstappen because it’s being reported he’s trying to block his old teammate Sainz from being given Ricciardo’s seat!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/verstappe ... red-bull/#

I don't think Max is afraid of Sainz, but I do think that he dislikes him and doesn't want to swap a driver who appears to be his best friend for an enemy he made back at Toro Rosso. Understandable, if a bit petty. But I 100% think Max would expect to beat Sainz if they were teammates again.


Any idea why Max doesn't like Sainz?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:04 pm 
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Max would beat Sainz. Do you see how people still talk about battles with Max back in the day? Like Ocon, Sainz...they tall with bitterness. They think they are ready to compete with him again and refer to past results. When Max raced Ocon, Ocon was in the best car and had more years experience racing cars. Still, Max became the champion in the end. When Sainz raced Max at TR Sainz had (much) more experience racing cars. Max somewhere told he now knew what all the buttons on the steering wheel did. He was still learning, but learning fast.

Max has improved much and much more since the first year in F1 compared to Sainz. Not that it's Sainz' fault but simply that Max was just starting to race cars. The learning curve is much more steep. And he still is learning and improving at a rapid pace. Sainz will still refer to their battle at TR, but Max is long past that. Ocon still talks about racing max in F3 but Max is long past that.

The Hamilton remark about being better at karting...
Max won while he was just a kid.
The other drivers started to complain that it could be because he was so light weight. They added weight to Max' kart and he still won.

I would love to see Hamilton in a kart racing Max. I think the outcome would favor Max ;) So who is better? And who cares...different times.

Ricciardo of course also knows that he gets beaten by Max when it comes to pure raw pace. He choose wisely and took matters in own hand instead of becoming a number 2 driver.
Renault likes to build the team around him, that's what he needs and deserves. We will see how it goes. Interesting it will be for sure :)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:06 pm 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
Max would beat Sainz. Do you see how people still talk about battles with Max back in the day? Like Ocon, Sainz...they tall with bitterness. They think they are ready to compete with him again and refer to past results. When Max raced Ocon, Ocon was in the best car and had more years experience racing cars. Still, Max became the champion in the end. When Sainz raced Max at TR Sainz had (much) more experience racing cars. Max somewhere told he now knew what all the buttons on the steering wheel did. He was still learning, but learning fast.

Max has improved much and much more since the first year in F1 compared to Sainz. Not that it's Sainz' fault but simply that Max was just starting to race cars. The learning curve is much more steep. And he still is learning and improving at a rapid pace. Sainz will still refer to their battle at TR, but Max is long past that. Ocon still talks about racing max in F3 but Max is long past that.

The Hamilton remark about being better at karting...
Max won while he was just a kid.
The other drivers started to complain that it could be because he was so light weight. They added weight to Max' kart and he still won.

I would love to see Hamilton in a kart racing Max. I think the outcome would favor Max ;) So who is better? And who cares...different times.

Ricciardo of course also knows that he gets beaten by Max when it comes to pure raw pace. He choose wisely and took matters in own hand instead of becoming a number 2 driver.
Renault likes to build the team around him, that's what he needs and deserves. We will see how it goes. Interesting it will be for sure :)

Not that you have any bias...


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:10 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Interestingly enough, the one who appears to be afraid to face someone in Red Bull is Verstappen because it’s being reported he’s trying to block his old teammate Sainz from being given Ricciardo’s seat!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/verstappe ... red-bull/#

I don't think Max is afraid of Sainz, but I do think that he dislikes him and doesn't want to swap a driver who appears to be his best friend for an enemy he made back at Toro Rosso. Understandable, if a bit petty. But I 100% think Max would expect to beat Sainz if they were teammates again.


Any idea why Max doesn't like Sainz?



It is not that he doesn't like him it's just that Sainz has felt better then Max from the beginning. Then he started to get annoying when things weren't going his way and with the political games. Stating things that weren't true etc. Carlos sr. also played a part in that. Putting his son up for such tasks.

They ruined it with Marko, they ruined it with Max and his management.


Sainz and Max in one team and having Sainz being all girly about it is not what Red Bull wants, Max can't and will never trust such a guy.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:11 pm 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
When Max raced Ocon, Ocon was in the best car and had more years experience racing cars. Still, Max became the champion in the end.

Not necessarily arguing with the general trend of past experience against Verstappen not counting for much, but Max did not become the champion. Ocon won that title, and Max was third behind Blomqvist. Max has actually never won a championship in cars at all, although that's certainly more to do with his very short career pre-F1 than anything talent related.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:11 pm 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Interestingly enough, the one who appears to be afraid to face someone in Red Bull is Verstappen because it’s being reported he’s trying to block his old teammate Sainz from being given Ricciardo’s seat!

https://www.planetf1.com/news/verstappe ... red-bull/#

I don't think Max is afraid of Sainz, but I do think that he dislikes him and doesn't want to swap a driver who appears to be his best friend for an enemy he made back at Toro Rosso. Understandable, if a bit petty. But I 100% think Max would expect to beat Sainz if they were teammates again.


Any idea why Max doesn't like Sainz?



It is not that he doesn't like him it's just that Sainz has felt better then Max from the beginning. Then he started to get annoying when things weren't going his way and with the political games. Stating things that weren't true etc. Carlos sr. also played a part in that. Putting his son up for such tasks.

They ruined it with Marko, they ruined it with Max and his management.


Sainz and Max in one team and having Sainz being all girly about it is not what Red Bull wants, Max can't and will never trust such a guy.

Is there any proof this was so one sided?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:14 pm 
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^^^ lol

If Hamilton and Verstappen jumped in ANY set of identical cars, Max had better bust out his pencil and paper and pay attention because school would be in session.

You’re a huge Verstappen fan and I like your passion for a driver you support, but it’s obvious your blind bias is quite apparent.

To be fair to you, Alonso would also school Max just the same as Hamilton, so take solice in the fact that he’s be losing to the two best of this era.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:14 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Any idea why Max doesn't like Sainz?

It is not that he doesn't like him it's just that Sainz has felt better then Max from the beginning. Then he started to get annoying when things weren't going his way and with the political games. Stating things that weren't true etc. Carlos sr. also played a part in that. Putting his son up for such tasks.

They ruined it with Marko, they ruined it with Max and his management.

Sainz and Max in one team and having Sainz being all girly about it is not what Red Bull wants, Max can't and will never trust such a guy.

Is there any proof this was so one sided?

I don't think it was. There were certainly signs from Max's side that he didn't like or respect Carlos, such as refusing to let him by in Singapore or ranting on the radio about how he had been faster all race and he should now be let by in Australia next year.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:15 pm 
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@dompclarke

And what do you have? :)

These are just things we all saw. Nothing strange to me except for the speculation who would win in karting but that is just for fun.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:16 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Any idea why Max doesn't like Sainz?

It is not that he doesn't like him it's just that Sainz has felt better then Max from the beginning. Then he started to get annoying when things weren't going his way and with the political games. Stating things that weren't true etc. Carlos sr. also played a part in that. Putting his son up for such tasks.

They ruined it with Marko, they ruined it with Max and his management.

Sainz and Max in one team and having Sainz being all girly about it is not what Red Bull wants, Max can't and will never trust such a guy.

Is there any proof this was so one sided?

I don't think it was. There were certainly signs from Max's side that he didn't like or respect Carlos, such as refusing to let him by in Singapore or ranting on the radio about how he had been faster all race and he should now be let by in Australia next year.

I didn't expect there to be to be honest reading his other very one sided views, but thought I'd ask as I know theres issues but not much else


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:20 pm 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
@dompclarke

And what do you have? :)

These are just things we all saw. Nothing strange to me except for the speculation who would win in karting but that is just for fun.

You're making bold claims that seem to come from a very one sided viewpoint. I'm open that they could be correct, and I'm not arguing that they aren't, but if this is so clear can you provide some evidence for me?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:22 pm 
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@F1mercenary

Thanks :)

I just think Hamilton is great. I just would not say Hammie would win in anything that you can drive. I feel you underestimate Max here. We are never going to see it but I bet "this guy" would beat Hamilton in a kart. ;) How often does Hamilton kart nowaday's really? Max is still to be found on track.

Alonso, with all due respect. I think he is great but again, show me those three in a kart and my money is on Max. And because he has more recent experience racing in karts. Do you think Alonso drives his karts regulary and as competitive as Max does? Please...

Who is biased here? ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:27 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
When Max raced Ocon, Ocon was in the best car and had more years experience racing cars. Still, Max became the champion in the end.

Not necessarily arguing with the general trend of past experience against Verstappen not counting for much, but Max did not become the champion. Ocon won that title, and Max was third behind Blomqvist. Max has actually never won a championship in cars at all, although that's certainly more to do with his very short career pre-F1 than anything talent related.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:29 pm 
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@dompclarke

Thank you for being open minded and willing to see my point. Of course Max is no angel here and can be a basterd on track when needed but the games Sainz and Sainz sr played are to be found online.

There was a statment in a Spanish paper that came from team Sainz that wasn't true and was very bad publicity for Max. Marko heard of it and was furious after he found out it came from Sainz sr and jr. I believe that was it for him and after that it was not long before Sainz left for Renault. I don't have the article here but I guess I can find it if you are interested.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:30 pm 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
@F1mercenary

Thanks :)

I just think Hamilton is great. I just would not say Hammie would win in anything that you can drive. I feel you underestimate Max here. We are never going to see it but I bet "this guy" would beat Hamilton in a kart. ;) How often does Hamilton kart nowaday's really? Max is still to be found on track.

Alonso, with all due respect. I think he is great but again, show me those three in a kart and my money is on Max. And because he has more recent experience racing in karts. Do you think Alonso drives his karts regulary and as competitive as Max does? Please...

Who is biased here? ;)

There is bias showing on both sides to be fair here, you can not seriously read back your comments and say you are not showing, for want of a better way of stating it, fan boy level bias.
I like Max, don't get me wrong, he's a great talent and has the chance to develop to one of the best, he's also got the chance to screw it all up.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:34 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
When Max raced Ocon, Ocon was in the best car and had more years experience racing cars. Still, Max became the champion in the end.

Not necessarily arguing with the general trend of past experience against Verstappen not counting for much, but Max did not become the champion. Ocon won that title, and Max was third behind Blomqvist. Max has actually never won a championship in cars at all, although that's certainly more to do with his very short career pre-F1 than anything talent related.


Yes excuse me for my writing. The "champion" remark was not meant as the real champion but more as the "winner" out of their battle. That Max got into F1 that season. Not a good way of describing what I meant, it's already late and after a few beers ;) But thanks for being great at giving responses. I like you guys here and enjoy the different points of views we have and I always like to learn more :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:49 pm 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
Alonso, with all due respect. I think he is great but again, show me those three in a kart and my money is on Max. And because he has more recent experience racing in karts. Do you think Alonso drives his karts regulary and as competitive as Max does? Please...

Alonso runs a karting academy in Spain, and I believe he karts very frequently. I don't know if he actually competes at a high level, but then I don't believe Max competes professionally anymore either - he karts for fun now, although he does so a great deal. Ricciardo said in a recent F1 Magazine interview that he suspects Max turns up at karting tracks with a plain helmet so he can just have fun and nobody knows who he is! :lol:

It's certainly true that Hamilton and Alonso are further removed from their professional karting days, however. For Max it's only a few years ago, as opposed to decades. In reality, all three of them would probably be schooled by a current high level kart racer in a kart.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:48 am 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
@F1mercenary

Thanks :)

I just think Hamilton is great. I just would not say Hammie would win in anything that you can drive. I feel you underestimate Max here. We are never going to see it but I bet "this guy" would beat Hamilton in a kart. ;) How often does Hamilton kart nowaday's really? Max is still to be found on track.

Alonso, with all due respect. I think he is great but again, show me those three in a kart and my money is on Max. And because he has more recent experience racing in karts. Do you think Alonso drives his karts regulary and as competitive as Max does? Please...

Who is biased here? ;)

Sorry no bias on my part.

The fact you have no
Clue how often Alonso karts says everything anyone need to know you don’t even know enough to substantiate your own claims.

I bet you also didn’t know that Alonso and Kubica raced one another in the off season regularly before kubica’s accident. In fact most F1 drivers kart regularly to maintain the added sharpness karts require. Grosjean karts often as does Massa, Sainz, and Hamilton.

Hamilton has on occasion shown up at tracks and surprised up and coming karters, whom only realize it really is him once he removes his helmet.

So in fact you don’t know much about karting outside of Max and are therefore not fully informed in all things karting.

So again, bring Max to a kart track and drop in Alonso and Hamilton and I’ll watch them open one of these and pour half in one another’s cup.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:42 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
oz_karter wrote:
Interesting report on the PF1 site:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-thought-ricciardo-was-joking-report/

According to Horner, Red Bull were under the impression Ricciardo was re-signing. They had agreed to a 1-year deal and probably a financial improvement.

The Renault deal is rumoured to be 20M pounds per year. I doubt Red Bull were offering that.

Horner thought Ricciardo was joking when he got the phone call on Thursday. Seems like everyone got a shock.

Red Bull even had a press release and promo ready to go, they were just waiting for the signature.

I wonder what changed Ricciardo's mind? Renault obviously hung a big carrot in the past week.

Yeah a Red Bull insider is saying that it was all about the money, I want the same money as Verstappen, you can't have it, Renault come along and say we will give you that money, Ricciardo's says that will do me.


Yeah and I read somewhere else that it was because he was scared to race Verstappen.

I'm not expecting too many positive comments to come from RB about this.

Please produce your source. That’s a pretty bold statement there and I call BS on it.


Although i'm 100% sure I read it as a statement from a " team insider" I can't find the site again so until I can find evidence I withdraw that statement

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:54 am 
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dompclarke wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
Max would beat Sainz. Do you see how people still talk about battles with Max back in the day? Like Ocon, Sainz...they tall with bitterness. They think they are ready to compete with him again and refer to past results. When Max raced Ocon, Ocon was in the best car and had more years experience racing cars. Still, Max became the champion in the end. When Sainz raced Max at TR Sainz had (much) more experience racing cars. Max somewhere told he now knew what all the buttons on the steering wheel did. He was still learning, but learning fast.

Max has improved much and much more since the first year in F1 compared to Sainz. Not that it's Sainz' fault but simply that Max was just starting to race cars. The learning curve is much more steep. And he still is learning and improving at a rapid pace. Sainz will still refer to their battle at TR, but Max is long past that. Ocon still talks about racing max in F3 but Max is long past that.

The Hamilton remark about being better at karting...
Max won while he was just a kid.
The other drivers started to complain that it could be because he was so light weight. They added weight to Max' kart and he still won.

I would love to see Hamilton in a kart racing Max. I think the outcome would favor Max ;) So who is better? And who cares...different times.

Ricciardo of course also knows that he gets beaten by Max when it comes to pure raw pace. He choose wisely and took matters in own hand instead of becoming a number 2 driver.
Renault likes to build the team around him, that's what he needs and deserves. We will see how it goes. Interesting it will be for sure :)

Not that you have any bias...


For those of us who've been here a while, remember Hakattack & Vettel?

Oh dear. Here we go again :(

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:55 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
Max would beat Sainz. Do you see how people still talk about battles with Max back in the day? Like Ocon, Sainz...they tall with bitterness. They think they are ready to compete with him again and refer to past results. When Max raced Ocon, Ocon was in the best car and had more years experience racing cars. Still, Max became the champion in the end. When Sainz raced Max at TR Sainz had (much) more experience racing cars. Max somewhere told he now knew what all the buttons on the steering wheel did. He was still learning, but learning fast.

Max has improved much and much more since the first year in F1 compared to Sainz. Not that it's Sainz' fault but simply that Max was just starting to race cars. The learning curve is much more steep. And he still is learning and improving at a rapid pace. Sainz will still refer to their battle at TR, but Max is long past that. Ocon still talks about racing max in F3 but Max is long past that.

The Hamilton remark about being better at karting...
Max won while he was just a kid.
The other drivers started to complain that it could be because he was so light weight. They added weight to Max' kart and he still won.

I would love to see Hamilton in a kart racing Max. I think the outcome would favor Max ;) So who is better? And who cares...different times.

Ricciardo of course also knows that he gets beaten by Max when it comes to pure raw pace. He choose wisely and took matters in own hand instead of becoming a number 2 driver.
Renault likes to build the team around him, that's what he needs and deserves. We will see how it goes. Interesting it will be for sure :)

Not that you have any bias...


For those of us who've been here a while, remember Hakattack & Vettel?

Oh dear. Here we go again :(

:lol: Hakattack. It's been a while since I thought of that name. God bless that man.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:09 am 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
@dompclarke

Thank you for being open minded and willing to see my point. Of course Max is no angel here and can be a basterd on track when needed but the games Sainz and Sainz sr played are to be found online.

There was a statment in a Spanish paper that came from team Sainz that wasn't true and was very bad publicity for Max. Marko heard of it and was furious after he found out it came from Sainz sr and jr. I believe that was it for him and after that it was not long before Sainz left for Renault. I don't have the article here but I guess I can find it if you are interested.

Well much as it should be up to you to back up your views not me I decided to have a look around. The only articles I have found from that time suggest it was fairly equal on Sainz and Verstappen, with the only solid info being Max being upset over being stuck behind in a race and thinking TR had given team orders for him to pass when they hadn't (which is more a Max issue in this case) and then throwing his toys out the pram over it...

As I've said I'm a fan of Verstappen, though I'm also a fan of Hamilton, Bottas, Raikonen, Hulkenberg, Ricciardo, Sainz, Gasly, Ocon, Magnussen, Ericssen, LeClerc, Grosjean (less recently) and hope Hartley gets it together before it's too late - so over half the grid...
You seem to be fixated on one driver and all your comments are to back up he's the best, disregarding what's actually happened


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:28 am 
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I feel my words might be more heavy weighed than they are meant. Apologies for that. This is the internet and you can't hear my tone. It's not meant as bad as you tell me you feel they are.

I like to hear all thoughts but I must remember a lot of people here live and breath F1 and it's really a big, big thing. I don't want to insult anyone, it's not what I am here for. I like to learn when I can and I feel this certainly is the place.

Yes, Max is just great! Flawless, no. Still learning, yes. But exciting to me, ow yes! A real fresh wind in F1 he brought and I am thankful for that.

I really do like the other drivers as well and will talk about them more in other topics. Vettel, Ricciardo, Kimi, Alonso, Hamilton, Hulk, K. Mag all of these guys make it worth watching. They have character and personallity and that is what makes me want to see them do well. Sure, one day the other comes out on top the next day it's another but that is fun.

Since this is Ricciardo's tread I am really glad for him he made the choice to move to Renault. It's clear the new challenge will do him good and with Hulk he has a strong team mate. They will work well together and only get stronger the coming years and it might be interesting to see how they will help Renault to get in the battle with the top 3. That's what we want afterall. More good battles with more teams. It's not fun to watch one driver win race after race. No matter if you like that driver or not. With Ricciardo going to Renault and joining Hulk we are in for a treat next year :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Any professional F1 competing in a go-cart unsanctioned by his team would be a complete dumbass. Any F1 team that would sanction it should be kicked out of F1 for not being of the standard of an F1 constructor.

Kubica! No more needs to be written.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:22 pm 
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da4an1qu1 wrote:
Any professional F1 competing in a go-cart unsanctioned by his team would be a complete dumbass. Any F1 team that would sanction it should be kicked out of F1 for not being of the standard of an F1 constructor.

Kubica! No more needs to be written.

Apart from that was a freak rallying accident!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:38 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
da4an1qu1 wrote:
Any professional F1 competing in a go-cart unsanctioned by his team would be a complete dumbass. Any F1 team that would sanction it should be kicked out of F1 for not being of the standard of an F1 constructor.

Kubica! No more needs to be written.

Apart from that was a freak rallying accident!


There is a point though, there have been injuries due to activities outside F1. Remember Montoya's tennis/motorcycle accident or Webber's leg? These drivers cost them millions and they cannot replace them as easy.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
da4an1qu1 wrote:
Any professional F1 competing in a go-cart unsanctioned by his team would be a complete dumbass. Any F1 team that would sanction it should be kicked out of F1 for not being of the standard of an F1 constructor.

Kubica! No more needs to be written.

Apart from that was a freak rallying accident!


There is a point though, there have been injuries due to activities outside F1. Remember Montoya's tennis/motorcycle accident or Webber's leg? These drivers cost them millions and they cannot replace them as easy.

Best wrap them in cotton wool and stick them in a padded cell between time in the car then, never know when they may get injured...

As you say Montoya had a tennis accident and no one can seriously say drivers should be banned from a safe activity that keeps them fit. The frequency of drivers being unable to drive due to injury is so small why should teams get anal about this?

It's good to see Alonso off in other series, it's good advertising for McLaren, F1 and clearly Alonso himself; F1 drivers have done the race of champions many times both while active in F1 and after.

I feel we should encourage drivers doing these things and it will be beneficial to the sport


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:37 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
da4an1qu1 wrote:
Any professional F1 competing in a go-cart unsanctioned by his team would be a complete dumbass. Any F1 team that would sanction it should be kicked out of F1 for not being of the standard of an F1 constructor.

Kubica! No more needs to be written.

Apart from that was a freak rallying accident!


There is a point though, there have been injuries due to activities outside F1. Remember Montoya's tennis/motorcycle accident or Webber's leg? These drivers cost them millions and they cannot replace them as easy.

Best wrap them in cotton wool and stick them in a padded cell between time in the car then, never know when they may get injured...

As you say Montoya had a tennis accident and no one can seriously say drivers should be banned from a safe activity that keeps them fit. The frequency of drivers being unable to drive due to injury is so small why should teams get anal about this?

It's good to see Alonso off in other series, it's good advertising for McLaren, F1 and clearly Alonso himself; F1 drivers have done the race of champions many times both while active in F1 and after.

I feel we should encourage drivers doing these things and it will be beneficial to the sport


I don't see the need to be sarcastic. The the previous poster mentioned unsanctioned activities. Go karting can be dangerous, there have been deaths and serious injuries. Only last year I think a kid died in Alonso's go kart track. I am all for drivers doing different things, promoting the sport. But it needs to be with the team's blessing. Nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, the story was that Montoya said it was a tennis injury while he had been motorcycle racing, no? Wasn't the furore that he lied to the team?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
da4an1qu1 wrote:
Any professional F1 competing in a go-cart unsanctioned by his team would be a complete dumbass. Any F1 team that would sanction it should be kicked out of F1 for not being of the standard of an F1 constructor.

Kubica! No more needs to be written.

Apart from that was a freak rallying accident!


There is a point though, there have been injuries due to activities outside F1. Remember Montoya's tennis/motorcycle accident or Webber's leg? These drivers cost them millions and they cannot replace them as easy.

Best wrap them in cotton wool and stick them in a padded cell between time in the car then, never know when they may get injured...

As you say Montoya had a tennis accident and no one can seriously say drivers should be banned from a safe activity that keeps them fit. The frequency of drivers being unable to drive due to injury is so small why should teams get anal about this?

It's good to see Alonso off in other series, it's good advertising for McLaren, F1 and clearly Alonso himself; F1 drivers have done the race of champions many times both while active in F1 and after.

I feel we should encourage drivers doing these things and it will be beneficial to the sport


I don't see the need to be sarcastic. The the previous poster mentioned unsanctioned activities. Go karting can be dangerous, there have been deaths and serious injuries. Only last year I think a kid died in Alonso's go kart track. I am all for drivers doing different things, promoting the sport. But it needs to be with the team's blessing. Nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, the story was that Montoya said it was a tennis injury while he had been motorcycle racing, no? Wasn't the furore that he lied to the team?[/quote]

Not really. The press were told it was a tennis injury but there was a rumour it was a motocross bike. I think Montoya always stuck to the tennis line.

I don't really see why F1 teams should be considered incompetent for letting there drivers compete in karting. Most drivers do a lot of exciting things outside of F1. You can't stifle people too much.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
da4an1qu1 wrote:
Any professional F1 competing in a go-cart unsanctioned by his team would be a complete dumbass. Any F1 team that would sanction it should be kicked out of F1 for not being of the standard of an F1 constructor.

Kubica! No more needs to be written.

Apart from that was a freak rallying accident!


There is a point though, there have been injuries due to activities outside F1. Remember Montoya's tennis/motorcycle accident or Webber's leg? These drivers cost them millions and they cannot replace them as easy.

Best wrap them in cotton wool and stick them in a padded cell between time in the car then, never know when they may get injured...

As you say Montoya had a tennis accident and no one can seriously say drivers should be banned from a safe activity that keeps them fit. The frequency of drivers being unable to drive due to injury is so small why should teams get anal about this?

It's good to see Alonso off in other series, it's good advertising for McLaren, F1 and clearly Alonso himself; F1 drivers have done the race of champions many times both while active in F1 and after.

I feel we should encourage drivers doing these things and it will be beneficial to the sport


I don't see the need to be sarcastic. The the previous poster mentioned unsanctioned activities. Go karting can be dangerous, there have been deaths and serious injuries. Only last year I think a kid died in Alonso's go kart track. I am all for drivers doing different things, promoting the sport. But it needs to be with the team's blessing. Nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, the story was that Montoya said it was a tennis injury while he had been motorcycle racing, no? Wasn't the furore that he lied to the team?

Not sarcasm more reductio ad absurdum. I'm sure if you look at the accident statistics for most of these activities the most dangerous part is the travel to the activity.


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