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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:17 am 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yeah he destroyed Kimi by 0.089s :lol:


Well you don't need to be 1 second clear for it to be a monster lap, he was behind in S1 and 2 and found something in S3.

I don't think you know the definition of a monster lap particularly when it relates to beating an identical car.


I'm in good company as most commentators and journalists think it was a monster lap as well.


It wasn't Hamilton so can't be considered a 'Monster Lap'. ;)

Like in Australia when he was 7 tenths clear and it was all put down to a party mode.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:19 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
This season is so weird so far. Lots of huge swings in performance track to track and between team mates and Kimi looks like 2005 Kimi and Ferrari look like 2007/8 Ferrari.

Got to be the new tyre compounds right?

I reckon that plays a big part, certainly in Kimi's case. I've always said the tyres are his biggest limiting factor.

Gotta feel for Kimi today. Dominated first two sectors and to get pipped at the post like that must hurt!

Yeah I've just mentioned that softer tyres suit Kimi.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:21 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Am I right in that in qualifying, Bottas generally seems as good or better than Hamilton when Ferrari are better? Ferrari looked better last year in Russia. Bottas 3rd, Hamilton 4th. Monaco, Hamilton broke down under pressure, Bottas 3rd. Hungary, Bottas 3rd, Hamilton 4th. Then even Mexico when Ferrari were better, Bottas was very close behind Hamilton. Then Ferrari looked better last qualifying in Bahrain, 3rd and 4th in the same order again. And yet again, Ferrari are better here, and same for Hamilton and Bottas.. I honestly think Bottas possibly has better 1 lap pace than Hamilton when Ferrari is a better car, but what sense does this make? Does Hamilton just sometimes struggle when he's not far better than everyone else?

Yeah that seems to be the case, some times last year that was put down to Hamilton over driving trying to make up the difference.

Might be something in that. When the car isn't the outright best there is more scope for the drivers to make errors trying to compensate

I think in particular if you are use to being quickest?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:21 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:

Well you don't need to be 1 second clear for it to be a monster lap, he was behind in S1 and 2 and found something in S3.

I don't think you know the definition of a monster lap particularly when it relates to beating an identical car.


I'm in good company as most commentators and journalists think it was a monster lap as well.


It wasn't Hamilton so can't be considered a 'Monster Lap'. ;)

Like in Australia when he was 7 tenths clear and it was all put down to a party mode.

wow, you really need to put those lemons away.

7 tenths is highly unlikely to be all driver. Just like nearly 5 tenths today is unlikely to be all driver (when comparing the Ferrari guys vs the rest). But, unlike in Australia, Vettel actually had a benchmark in his team mate...


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:21 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
I'm in good company as most commentators and journalists think it was a monster lap as well.

You know I heard one commentator saying how perfect Vettel's lap was through the first 2 sectors and then sort of contradicted himself by mentioning that Kimi had gone even quicker, so Kimi must have been on a Godzilla lap at that point?


Yeah, why not. A monster lap by Kimi. And then the monster lap - 0.089 sec by Vettel.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:23 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I don't think you know the definition of a monster lap particularly when it relates to beating an identical car.


I'm in good company as most commentators and journalists think it was a monster lap as well.


It wasn't Hamilton so can't be considered a 'Monster Lap'. ;)

Like in Australia when he was 7 tenths clear and it was all put down to a party mode.

wow, you really need to put those lemons away.

7 tenths is highly unlikely to be all driver. Just like nearly 5 tenths today is unlikely to be all driver (when comparing the Ferrari guys vs the rest). But, unlike in Australia, Vettel actually had a benchmark in his team mate...

Who he beat by less than 1 tenth.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:24 am 
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Prema wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
I'm in good company as most commentators and journalists think it was a monster lap as well.

You know I heard one commentator saying how perfect Vettel's lap was through the first 2 sectors and then sort of contradicted himself by mentioning that Kimi had gone even quicker, so Kimi must have been on a Godzilla lap at that point?


Yeah, why not. A monster lap by Kimi. And then the monster lap - 0.089 sec by Vettel.

Monster lap by Kimi and Godzilla lap by Vettel then.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:24 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Am I right in that in qualifying, Bottas generally seems as good or better than Hamilton when Ferrari are better? Ferrari looked better last year in Russia. Bottas 3rd, Hamilton 4th. Monaco, Hamilton broke down under pressure, Bottas 3rd. Hungary, Bottas 3rd, Hamilton 4th. Then even Mexico when Ferrari were better, Bottas was very close behind Hamilton. Then Ferrari looked better last qualifying in Bahrain, 3rd and 4th in the same order again. And yet again, Ferrari are better here, and same for Hamilton and Bottas.. I honestly think Bottas possibly has better 1 lap pace than Hamilton when Ferrari is a better car, but what sense does this make? Does Hamilton just sometimes struggle when he's not far better than everyone else?

Yeah that seems to be the case, some times last year that was put down to Hamilton over driving trying to make up the difference.

Might be something in that. When the car isn't the outright best there is more scope for the drivers to make errors trying to compensate

I think in particular if you are use to being quickest?

Possibly, but OTOH if you know that your car can at least match everyone else, then you can just concentrate on driving smoothly. If you think your car has a deficit, then you're more likely to be aggressive in trying to overcome that


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:25 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Rockie wrote:

I'm in good company as most commentators and journalists think it was a monster lap as well.


It wasn't Hamilton so can't be considered a 'Monster Lap'. ;)

Like in Australia when he was 7 tenths clear and it was all put down to a party mode.

wow, you really need to put those lemons away.

7 tenths is highly unlikely to be all driver. Just like nearly 5 tenths today is unlikely to be all driver (when comparing the Ferrari guys vs the rest). But, unlike in Australia, Vettel actually had a benchmark in his team mate...

Who he beat by less than 1 tenth.

how much should he have beaten him by?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:26 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Prema wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
I'm in good company as most commentators and journalists think it was a monster lap as well.

You know I heard one commentator saying how perfect Vettel's lap was through the first 2 sectors and then sort of contradicted himself by mentioning that Kimi had gone even quicker, so Kimi must have been on a Godzilla lap at that point?


Yeah, why not. A monster lap by Kimi. And then the monster lap - 0.089 sec by Vettel.

Monster lap by Kimi and Godzilla lap by Vettel then.


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:28 am 
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Zoue wrote:
how much should he have beaten him by?


For it to be described as a "monster" lap without challenge?

I can't see you describing Hamilton putting in a lap fractionally faster than Bottas and calling it a "monster" lap.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:28 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
This season is so weird so far. Lots of huge swings in performance track to track and between team mates and Kimi looks like 2005 Kimi and Ferrari look like 2007/8 Ferrari.

Got to be the new tyre compounds right?

I reckon that plays a big part, certainly in Kimi's case. I've always said the tyres are his biggest limiting factor.

Gotta feel for Kimi today. Dominated first two sectors and to get pipped at the post like that must hurt!

Yeah I've just mentioned that softer tyres suit Kimi.

Looking at it, he went slower in S3 than he did in his previous benchmark, so he left time on the table from his own best efforts. Doesn't look like he did anything majorly wrong, but he was 4kph slower than Vettel on the straight, so maybe his exit onto that straight wasn't as good as before. He was the best of all until that point


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:29 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
how much should he have beaten him by?


For it to be described as a "monster" lap without challenge?

I can't see you describing Hamilton putting in a lap fractionally faster than Bottas and calling it a "monster" lap.

I haven't called it a monster lap, though. Sorry to disappoint


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:38 am 
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:38 am 
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And this is exactly why I have gone from posting thousands of posts a year on this forum, some years ago now, to hardly ever posting. It's because the same faces show up and can't cope if someone says anything positive about certain drivers or anything negative about others. It just turns into a playground squabble every time. 'My driver is better than yours'

It's tiresome.....

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:08 am 
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Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
how much should he have beaten him by?


For it to be described as a "monster" lap without challenge?

I can't see you describing Hamilton putting in a lap fractionally faster than Bottas and calling it a "monster" lap.

I haven't called it a monster lap, though. Sorry to disappoint


If you don't think it was then why are you arguing against Pokerman? You should be agreeing with him. I believe that was the point he was making?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:26 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
how much should he have beaten him by?


For it to be described as a "monster" lap without challenge?

I can't see you describing Hamilton putting in a lap fractionally faster than Bottas and calling it a "monster" lap.

I haven't called it a monster lap, though. Sorry to disappoint


If you don't think it was then why are you arguing against Pokerman? You should be agreeing with him. I believe that was the point he was making?

No, he was wading in with some guff about Hamilton again. Today's lap had nothing to do with Hamilton, but for him it has to be made so.

I think pipping your team mate can be described as very good. It wasn't a perfect lap, as Kimi got purples in the first two sectors, but I do think Vettel did an excellent 3rd sector to claw back the deficit. I think Kimi had the ability to get the perfect lap and it's a shame for him his last sector was merely yellow. But, although I wouldn't call it a monster lap personally, mainly because Vettel's team mate had faster sectors, it still looked like a pretty good lap to me and the rest is just semantics

The point about beating your team mate is that you at least have a benchmark. Pokerman feels put out because not everybody fainted at Hamilton's lap in Australia, because he feels that going 6 tenths faster is somehow miraculous. But I didn't feel then that beating the opposition by six tenths is all driver, just like I don't feel now that Ferrari beating Mercedes by half a second is all down to the drivers. The main difference here is that there was a team mate to use as a yardstick and the gap to Mercedes I'd put largely down to the car, just like I did in Australia. But for poker every situation is identical and there are no shades of grey.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:49 am 
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Kimi has found the pace in qualifying this year, hope he can keep this up!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:59 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Kimi has found the pace in qualifying this year, hope he can keep this up!

Me, too. Now he just has to translate that to the race :twisted:


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:29 am 
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If Kimi had just matched his previous best S3 time he would have had pole by 0.044s. He lost quite a bit in his final run, given that he was ahead of Vettel before that last sector


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:36 am 
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Zoue wrote:
If Kimi had just matched his previous best S3 time he would have had pole by 0.044s. He lost quite a bit in his final run, given that he was ahead of Vettel before that last sector


Lost or gave away? I'm still not convinced Ferrari are allowing a straight competition either in qualy or race, although if it was given away he didn't give away much.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:46 am 
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TedStriker wrote:
Zoue wrote:
If Kimi had just matched his previous best S3 time he would have had pole by 0.044s. He lost quite a bit in his final run, given that he was ahead of Vettel before that last sector


Lost or gave away? I'm still not convinced Ferrari are allowing a straight competition either in qualy or race, although if it was given away he didn't give away much.


Why wouldn't they? Ferrari want to win the championship. Do they care which driver it is that brings it in?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:16 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Kimi has found the pace in qualifying this year, hope he can keep this up!

Me, too. Now he just has to translate that to the race :twisted:


Me too. Sadly I don't think they will let him win unless Vettel DNF or can't get him on the podium.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:24 am 
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I could do not watch qualifying or FP3 but Ferrari have really started strong this year 8O.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:30 am 
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TedStriker wrote:
Zoue wrote:
If Kimi had just matched his previous best S3 time he would have had pole by 0.044s. He lost quite a bit in his final run, given that he was ahead of Vettel before that last sector


Lost or gave away? I'm still not convinced Ferrari are allowing a straight competition either in qualy or race, although if it was given away he didn't give away much.


Lost.
Not really that much place for conspiracy theories in this case.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:36 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Kimi has found the pace in qualifying this year, hope he can keep this up!

Me, too. Now he just has to translate that to the race :twisted:


strange how kimi was generally thought of as stronger in the race then quali. quali had generally been the weak point, getting the tyres to work for 1 lap. last couple of years he seems to have decent 1 lap pace but generally cant match vettel in races. vettel is obviously very strong in races in genera,l but maybe age is an issue because one thing that goes generally as sportsmen get older is concentration, which leads to errors. just hope he can get ahead into turn 1 or its a vettel win.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:54 am 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
And this is exactly why I have gone from posting thousands of posts a year on this forum, some years ago now, to hardly ever posting. It's because the same faces show up and can't cope if someone says anything positive about certain drivers or anything negative about others. It just turns into a playground squabble every time. 'My driver is better than yours'

It's tiresome.....

:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:01 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Am I right in that in qualifying, Bottas generally seems as good or better than Hamilton when Ferrari are better? Ferrari looked better last year in Russia. Bottas 3rd, Hamilton 4th. Monaco, Hamilton broke down under pressure, Bottas 3rd. Hungary, Bottas 3rd, Hamilton 4th. Then even Mexico when Ferrari were better, Bottas was very close behind Hamilton. Then Ferrari looked better last qualifying in Bahrain, 3rd and 4th in the same order again. And yet again, Ferrari are better here, and same for Hamilton and Bottas.. I honestly think Bottas possibly has better 1 lap pace than Hamilton when Ferrari is a better car, but what sense does this make? Does Hamilton just sometimes struggle when he's not far better than everyone else?


I think it also has to do with the particular issue which makes the Merc slower, basically ithas to do with their driving style. In Singapore last year Lewis was much quicker than Bottas even though the Ferrari was faster there. I just think sometimes the car suits Lewis and sometimes it suits Bottas better. But when the car was at his best Lewis is more comfortable with it. This weekend the Merc just refuses to turn in. Lewis reportedly suffers more in an understeery car. He is known to like a loose rear end.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:03 pm 
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Kimi has been in fine form this season but in both races has been very unlucky. Without that he would be close in the points table let alone giving Vettel a run for his money pace wise. :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:07 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Kimi has been in fine form this season but in both races has been very unlucky. Without that he would be close in the points table let alone giving Vettel a run for his money pace wise. :thumbup:


Can't wait to see what happens tomorrow. If Vettel beats Kimi I hope it is on merit. No obvious favoritism or compromising Kimi's race please. Not holding my breathe though.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:09 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Kimi has been in fine form this season but in both races has been very unlucky. Without that he would be close in the points table let alone giving Vettel a run for his money pace wise. :thumbup:


This is pretty good actually. Some challenge for Vettel will make sure he stays on his toes, and he can take points of the Mercedes more than he did last year.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Kimi has found the pace in qualifying this year, hope he can keep this up!

Me, too. Now he just has to translate that to the race :twisted:


strange how kimi was generally thought of as stronger in the race then quali. quali had generally been the weak point, getting the tyres to work for 1 lap. last couple of years he seems to have decent 1 lap pace but generally cant match vettel in races. vettel is obviously very strong in races in genera,l but maybe age is an issue because one thing that goes generally as sportsmen get older is concentration, which leads to errors. just hope he can get ahead into turn 1 or its a vettel win.

I've noticed he just tends to fade a bit in races. His qualifying pace is variable, but for me generally stronger. I don't have a lot of confidence in him in the race, sadly. I'll be more than happy to be proven wrong, but I don't think I will be


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:21 pm 
pokerman wrote:

You know I heard one commentator saying how perfect Vettel's lap was through the first 2 sectors and then sort of contradicted himself by mentioning that Kimi had gone even quicker, so Kimi must have been on a Godzilla lap at that point?

Anthony Davidson?
:lol: I saw that, said something like, Vettel has delivered perfection to this point, then stuttered when he realised he was actually 0.150 down on Kimi at that time and added even though the clock isn’t showing it.

Hamilton has never been as strong over 1 lap when they bring the softest tyres, same story as the Rosberg days.


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TedStriker wrote:
Zoue wrote:
If Kimi had just matched his previous best S3 time he would have had pole by 0.044s. He lost quite a bit in his final run, given that he was ahead of Vettel before that last sector


Lost or gave away? I'm still not convinced Ferrari are allowing a straight competition either in qualy or race, although if it was given away he didn't give away much.

You'd have to admire the Ferrari engineers for their precision if they engineered the pole for Vettel by just under a tenth. In that respect, you have far more faith in their abilities than I do.

Seems more than likely that Kimi just didn't hook up his final S3 as well as his previous one. There wasn't much in it, so not as though he made some big mistake. Here they are guessing that perhaps his drive out of the penultimate corner wasn't perfect, as he lost 4kph to Vettel on the straight


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:29 pm 
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lamo wrote:
pokerman wrote:

You know I heard one commentator saying how perfect Vettel's lap was through the first 2 sectors and then sort of contradicted himself by mentioning that Kimi had gone even quicker, so Kimi must have been on a Godzilla lap at that point?

Anthony Davidson?
:lol: I saw that, said something like, Vettel has delivered perfection to this point, then stuttered when he realised he was actually 0.150 down on Kimi at that time and added even though the clock isn’t showing it.

Hamilton has never been as strong over 1 lap when they bring the softest tyres, same story as the Rosberg days.


Vettel was never 0.15s down on Kimi that last run. It was 0.051s after S2.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:34 pm 
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mds wrote:
lamo wrote:
pokerman wrote:

You know I heard one commentator saying how perfect Vettel's lap was through the first 2 sectors and then sort of contradicted himself by mentioning that Kimi had gone even quicker, so Kimi must have been on a Godzilla lap at that point?

Anthony Davidson?
:lol: I saw that, said something like, Vettel has delivered perfection to this point, then stuttered when he realised he was actually 0.150 down on Kimi at that time and added even though the clock isn’t showing it.

Hamilton has never been as strong over 1 lap when they bring the softest tyres, same story as the Rosberg days.


Vettel was never 0.15s down on Kimi that last run. It was 0.051s after S2.

yep, and if Kimi had matched his previous S3 best he would have had pole by 0.044s, instead of losing it by 0.087s


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:39 pm 
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lamo wrote:
pokerman wrote:

You know I heard one commentator saying how perfect Vettel's lap was through the first 2 sectors and then sort of contradicted himself by mentioning that Kimi had gone even quicker, so Kimi must have been on a Godzilla lap at that point?

Anthony Davidson?
:lol: I saw that, said something like, Vettel has delivered perfection to this point, then stuttered when he realised he was actually 0.150 down on Kimi at that time and added even though the clock isn’t showing it.

Hamilton has never been as strong over 1 lap when they bring the softest tyres, same story as the Rosberg days.


Did Lewis not come out in support of the Hyper soft tyre at the end of last year? He seems to support the softer compounds but achieves better results on harder compounds. Any theory as to why this may be the case?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:43 pm 
I thought I saw it flash up as Vettel +0.050 at S2 which was against Kimi’s first lap that Kimi was -0.070 up on a S2..?

Kimi’s sector 3 was 0.2 slower than his first run and Vettel only beat him by 0.090


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:49 pm 
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lamo wrote:
I thought I saw it flash up as Vettel +0.050 at S2 which was against Kimi’s first lap that Kimi was -0.070 up on a S2..?

Kimi’s sector 3 was 0.2 slower than his first run and Vettel only beat him by 0.090


Sector splits:

Image

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:57 pm 
Thanks, do the timing screen adjus in real time now then as opposed to only finished laps. I am sure I saw vettel as down at S2 but that wouldn’t be possible as his S3 pole time was only 0.007 quicker than Kimi’s first run.


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