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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:13 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Apparently all other teams have the mechanics standing behind the wheel instead of in front of it, and even at the rest of the three wheels in the Ferrari pit box no one was standing in front of the wheel. Freak accident.


Possibly a by-product of the issue with the wheel not having come off?

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:33 am 
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Blake wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Apparently all other teams have the mechanics standing behind the wheel instead of in front of it, and even at the rest of the three wheels in the Ferrari pit box no one was standing in front of the wheel. Freak accident.


Possibly a by-product of the issue with the wheel not having come off?

Yeah, I'd say you're probably right.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:15 am 
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Banana Man wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
Though it could be less safe if there isn't a man to control the wheels that aren't on the car. If one could disappear down the pitlane and cause problems to people or other cars it's not a good solution. This is why although I'd like reduced number working on the car I don't know what number to pick!


It wouldn't be that difficult to have a rule that all wheels must be laid flat. Plus have a spare guy stood on either side (sufficiently clear of the car) to watch any wayward wheels.

Not sure what you're adding or questioning on my comment, I wasn't saying it wouldn't work and was giving areas they need to think about it implementing it


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:10 pm 
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I say all wheels should have sensors on the outer rim and cars cannot engage the gear until they are laid flat and still on the ground for a second and then the car can launch, or, implement a minimum time before cars can leave their boxes. Like 5 seconds, maybe 7? This way every team has all the time they need to swap tires and deal with any inherent issues before panic sets in.

This accident was freak but what the mechanic did is the equivalent to crab fishermen lifting their feet as the gear for the traps is going over the side. It's a situation he put himself in due to a momentary lapse in judgement.

Even still, this isn't the worst crew member incident I've ever seen. That distinction goes to this poor guy…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKs-vNt8VC4

Best series & era EVERRRR!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:51 am 
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Why not go back to F1 of the past.

No pit stops unless it is to change on to or off rain tires.!

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:10 pm 
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One mechanic per wheel and get rid of the pneumatic wheel gun.

Also lets make the front jack as entertaining as it is in this video.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:37 pm 
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A little late to the party here but I don't think minimum pit stop times should be enforced during the race, let the teams just battle it out for the speediest pit stop.

I do however think that during virtual safety car periods, a minimum stationary time during pit stops could be enforced so that nobody benefits by pitting during a virtual safety car. The VSC is supposed to neutralise the race but doesn't factor in cars pitting.


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:53 pm 
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Red bull showed today that nothing is wrong with current pit stop system.... Double pit stops not once but twice. Both cars released safely with no issues. (Close thread)

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:04 pm 
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"One swallow does not make a summer".

As discussed earlier on, let's see how the (long) season goes before my thread is (illegitimately given you aren't a mod) closed down.


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:09 pm 
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Mayhem wrote:
Red bull showed today that nothing is wrong with current pit stop system.... Double pit stops not once but twice. Both cars released safely with no issues. (Close thread)


Not saying that I agree with a fixed time stop, but your comment above is a bit like saying that because nobody crashed into a safety barrier today, we should get rid of them.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:11 pm 
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Mayhem wrote:
Red bull showed today that nothing is wrong with current pit stop system.... Double pit stops not once but twice. Both cars released safely with no issues. (Close thread)

I remember thinking during the race that that would not happen if there was only one mechanic per wheel...

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:05 pm 
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GarJE wrote:
"One swallow does not make a summer".

As discussed earlier on, let's see how the (long) season goes before my thread is (illegitimately given you aren't a mod) closed down.


And yet 1 team (haas) has 2 bad pit stops and you hit the panic button calling for pit stop safety???


The numbers dont show pit stops are unsafe. Race after race how many safe pit stops are performed? What percentage are deemed unsafe???? You should follow your own advice and see how the season plays out before calling for change in pit stop regulations NO?

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
Red bull showed today that nothing is wrong with current pit stop system.... Double pit stops not once but twice. Both cars released safely with no issues. (Close thread)

I remember thinking during the race that that would not happen if there was only one mechanic per wheel...


It wouldnt have happened if such a regualtion was in place. Redbull would of had to choose which driver to pit for the safety car period. Which probably would have been Versteppen since he was the lead car for them at the moment and we all saw how that would have played out if only max had the chance. Redbull gave both drivers the shot due to the ability of double pit stops and both were performed flawlessly.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:11 pm 
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I think regardless of what is done or not, there will be pit stop accidents once in a while. Considering how many stops are made in motor racing, I suspect the error rate is very very low and well within any safety design parameters. Sure, it always makes sense to look and learn, and by all means evolve, but I agree we don't need to overreact.

This topic has had me thinking about refuelling a lot, I love how it can alter strategy, but alas, here is more risk....


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:23 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
One mechanic per wheel and get rid of the pneumatic wheel gun.

Also lets make the front jack as entertaining as it is in this video.
There is 63 years of advancement. There again, that's almost how long it took the guys on the first clip...

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:04 am 
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Mayhem wrote:
GarJE wrote:
"One swallow does not make a summer".

As discussed earlier on, let's see how the (long) season goes before my thread is (illegitimately given you aren't a mod) closed down.


And yet 1 team (haas) has 2 bad pit stops and you hit the panic button calling for pit stop safety???


The numbers dont show pit stops are unsafe. Race after race how many safe pit stops are performed? What percentage are deemed unsafe???? You should follow your own advice and see how the season plays out before calling for change in pit stop regulations NO?


No "panic button" was pressed. I simply posed a question for discussion (look for the question mark in my original post), which is something a Forum is for.

Your numbers are also wrong. Ferrari being the 3rd. Which means an average of 1 unsafe release per race to date (ignoring the couple of unsafe FP releases).


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:53 am 
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mmi16 wrote:
Why not go back to F1 of the past.

No pit stops unless it is to change on to or off rain tires.!

Untrained crew without much practice might be even worse when pit lane is crowded when everyone changes tyres during rain.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:05 am 
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dizlexik wrote:
mmi16 wrote:
Why not go back to F1 of the past.

No pit stops unless it is to change on to or off rain tires.!

Untrained crew without much practice might be even worse when pit lane is crowded when everyone changes tyres during rain.
Untrained? Crowded? Both potential problems would easily be corrected. Training crews for problem 1, and limiting the number of crew members for problem 2. How about a maximum of 6 people per car?

I'm all for banning mandatory pitstops.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:07 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I say all wheels should have sensors on the outer rim and cars cannot engage the gear until they are laid flat and still on the ground for a second and then the car can launch, or, implement a minimum time before cars can leave their boxes. Like 5 seconds, maybe 7? This way every team has all the time they need to swap tires and deal with any inherent issues before panic sets in.

This accident was freak but what the mechanic did is the equivalent to crab fishermen lifting their feet as the gear for the traps is going over the side. It's a situation he put himself in due to a momentary lapse in judgement.

Even still, this isn't the worst crew member incident I've ever seen. That distinction goes to this poor guy…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKs-vNt8VC4

Best series & era EVERRRR!!!!

Having minimum time might introduce risk that they will blindly let car go when minimum time expire. I believe there should be sensors in car that will leave car without power unless all 4 wheels are changed, but it should not be visible for pit crew or driver to avoid blindly trusting sensors which might be faulty.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:02 am 
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dizlexik wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I say all wheels should have sensors on the outer rim and cars cannot engage the gear until they are laid flat and still on the ground for a second and then the car can launch, or, implement a minimum time before cars can leave their boxes. Like 5 seconds, maybe 7? This way every team has all the time they need to swap tires and deal with any inherent issues before panic sets in.

This accident was freak but what the mechanic did is the equivalent to crab fishermen lifting their feet as the gear for the traps is going over the side. It's a situation he put himself in due to a momentary lapse in judgement.

Even still, this isn't the worst crew member incident I've ever seen. That distinction goes to this poor guy…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKs-vNt8VC4

Best series & era EVERRRR!!!!

Having minimum time might introduce risk that they will blindly let car go when minimum time expire. I believe there should be sensors in car that will leave car without power unless all 4 wheels are changed, but it should not be visible for pit crew or driver to avoid blindly trusting sensors which might be faulty.

Just playing devil's advocate, here: if they're faulty, won't that mean the end of a driver's race? He can't do much without power to the wheels...


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:16 am 
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GarJE wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
GarJE wrote:
"One swallow does not make a summer".

As discussed earlier on, let's see how the (long) season goes before my thread is (illegitimately given you aren't a mod) closed down.


And yet 1 team (haas) has 2 bad pit stops and you hit the panic button calling for pit stop safety???


The numbers dont show pit stops are unsafe. Race after race how many safe pit stops are performed? What percentage are deemed unsafe???? You should follow your own advice and see how the season plays out before calling for change in pit stop regulations NO?


No "panic button" was pressed. I simply posed a question for discussion (look for the question mark in my original post), which is something a Forum is for.

Your numbers are also wrong. Ferrari being the 3rd. Which means an average of 1 unsafe release per race to date (ignoring the couple of unsafe FP releases).


There is this thing about numbers and statistics, you can make them look better or worse than they are. How about changing it to "in 80 (or so, haven't counted how many exactly) releases in the first three races, only three have been compromised"? 3/80 seems much better odds than 1/3, right?

Mayhem mentions it very nicely in the bold part, how about the number of pits that are indeed performed without a glitch? The 1/3 that you mention paints a gloom picture and seems very unfair to the rest of the pit stops that have gone just fine.

This doesn't mean that the teams should be complacent or that the risks have suddenly disappeared. These bad pit stops shall be minimised, if not done with altogether.


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:17 am 
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How about making a the pit box a literal box? A box that the mechanics can't enter until the car is stationary and the car can't move until the mechanics are out of it.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:41 am 
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Zoue wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I say all wheels should have sensors on the outer rim and cars cannot engage the gear until they are laid flat and still on the ground for a second and then the car can launch, or, implement a minimum time before cars can leave their boxes. Like 5 seconds, maybe 7? This way every team has all the time they need to swap tires and deal with any inherent issues before panic sets in.

This accident was freak but what the mechanic did is the equivalent to crab fishermen lifting their feet as the gear for the traps is going over the side. It's a situation he put himself in due to a momentary lapse in judgement.

Even still, this isn't the worst crew member incident I've ever seen. That distinction goes to this poor guy…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKs-vNt8VC4

Best series & era EVERRRR!!!!

Having minimum time might introduce risk that they will blindly let car go when minimum time expire. I believe there should be sensors in car that will leave car without power unless all 4 wheels are changed, but it should not be visible for pit crew or driver to avoid blindly trusting sensors which might be faulty.

Just playing devil's advocate, here: if they're faulty, won't that mean the end of a driver's race? He can't do much without power to the wheels...

Yes, it's better to have car stuck in pitlane rather than injured mechanics or flying wheels.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:19 am 
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dizlexik wrote:
Zoue wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I say all wheels should have sensors on the outer rim and cars cannot engage the gear until they are laid flat and still on the ground for a second and then the car can launch, or, implement a minimum time before cars can leave their boxes. Like 5 seconds, maybe 7? This way every team has all the time they need to swap tires and deal with any inherent issues before panic sets in.

This accident was freak but what the mechanic did is the equivalent to crab fishermen lifting their feet as the gear for the traps is going over the side. It's a situation he put himself in due to a momentary lapse in judgement.

Even still, this isn't the worst crew member incident I've ever seen. That distinction goes to this poor guy…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKs-vNt8VC4

Best series & era EVERRRR!!!!

Having minimum time might introduce risk that they will blindly let car go when minimum time expire. I believe there should be sensors in car that will leave car without power unless all 4 wheels are changed, but it should not be visible for pit crew or driver to avoid blindly trusting sensors which might be faulty.

Just playing devil's advocate, here: if they're faulty, won't that mean the end of a driver's race? He can't do much without power to the wheels...

Yes, it's better to have car stuck in pitlane rather than injured mechanics or flying wheels.

Would be a shame for a driver's race to end because of a dodgy sensor, though. I don't think it needs to be an either/or scenario


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
Zoue wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I say all wheels should have sensors on the outer rim and cars cannot engage the gear until they are laid flat and still on the ground for a second and then the car can launch, or, implement a minimum time before cars can leave their boxes. Like 5 seconds, maybe 7? This way every team has all the time they need to swap tires and deal with any inherent issues before panic sets in.

This accident was freak but what the mechanic did is the equivalent to crab fishermen lifting their feet as the gear for the traps is going over the side. It's a situation he put himself in due to a momentary lapse in judgement.

Even still, this isn't the worst crew member incident I've ever seen. That distinction goes to this poor guy…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKs-vNt8VC4

Best series & era EVERRRR!!!!

Having minimum time might introduce risk that they will blindly let car go when minimum time expire. I believe there should be sensors in car that will leave car without power unless all 4 wheels are changed, but it should not be visible for pit crew or driver to avoid blindly trusting sensors which might be faulty.

Just playing devil's advocate, here: if they're faulty, won't that mean the end of a driver's race? He can't do much without power to the wheels...

Yes, it's better to have car stuck in pitlane rather than injured mechanics or flying wheels.

Would be a shame for a driver's race to end because of a dodgy sensor, though. I don't think it needs to be an either/or scenario

Yes, but that's less embarrassing than running over some poor mechanic. My point is that because electronic can be faulty or fooled team should still do what they do, with sensors being just last line of defence against bad pitstops. Teams should not rely solely on hypothetical sensors to do the job for them. Still for any sensors to make sense they need to be robust, so being stuck shouldn't happen when wheels are properly attached.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:51 pm 
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How about instead of sensors that automatically come on when a wheel is properly fitted there's a manual switch at each corner that the gun man has to hit when he's satisfied that the his wheel is good to go.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:34 pm 
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GarJE wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
GarJE wrote:
"One swallow does not make a summer".

As discussed earlier on, let's see how the (long) season goes before my thread is (illegitimately given you aren't a mod) closed down.


And yet 1 team (haas) has 2 bad pit stops and you hit the panic button calling for pit stop safety???


The numbers dont show pit stops are unsafe. Race after race how many safe pit stops are performed? What percentage are deemed unsafe???? You should follow your own advice and see how the season plays out before calling for change in pit stop regulations NO?


No "panic button" was pressed. I simply posed a question for discussion (look for the question mark in my original post), which is something a Forum is for.

Your numbers are also wrong. Ferrari being the 3rd. Which means an average of 1 unsafe release per race to date (ignoring the couple of unsafe FP releases).


actually my numbers are spot on,

2018 Pit stops per race (aus-bah-china)

80 SAFE PITSTOPS PERFORMED (96.3855422%)
3 deemed unsafe (3.6144578 %)
83 total pit stops performed

Lewis Hamilton 1-1-1
Valtteri Bottas 1-1-1
Daniel Ricciardo 1- 0- 2
Max Verstappen 1-1-2
Sebastian Vettel 1-1-1
Kimi Raikkonen 1-1-1
Sergio Perez 1-2-2
Esteban Ocon 1-2-2
Sergey Sirotkin 0-2-2
Lance Stroll 2-2-1
Fernando Alonso 1-2-1
Stoffel Vandoorne 1-2-1
Carlos Sainz Jnr 1-2-2
Pierre Gasly 0-2-2
Romain Grosjean 1-3-2
Kevin Magnussen 1-2-1
Nico Hulkenberg 1-2-2
Brendon Hartley 2-2-2
Marcus Ericsson 0-1-1
Charles Leclerc 2-2-1

source: https://www.racefans.net/2018/04/15/201 ... and-tyres/

so now please show us how this is such a unsafe problem that needs to be addressed?????

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:50 pm 
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They don't exactly need to keep adding extra strength to the cockpit of F1 cars, due to the fact that deaths caused because of a lack of strength in the cockpit are rather rare. They still make it safer most years because, well, why wouldn't you?

Therefore, why should people not think about improving the safety in the pits?

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:22 am 
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Mayhem wrote:
GarJE wrote:
Hi,
The point I'm trying to make is that the time needs to be suitable to ensure a human being can make sure it's safe before releasing a car. 4 seconds was a suggestion. It could just as easily be more time as necessary.


Todays accident was just that an accident. How many sub 3 sec pit stops have taken place incident free??? These crews spend countless hours practicing and training to be FAST, EFFICIENT & SAFE.

Crews go as fast as they are comfortable going, no one is purposely releasing cars due to them being stationary to long. No changes are needed or rules in place to slow pit stops down.

Man's purpose is to eliminate all risk from every situation. Cricketers must now wear baseball gloves to protect there hands, tennis players must now wear groin protection and golfers now must wear hockey pads and a helmet to guard against being struck by an errant shot. The term "Fore" will now be retired.

And to add excitement to track and field events, sprinters must now stop every 50 meters to re-tie their shoes.

Or we could just let the boys play.


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:52 am 
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Mayhem wrote:
2018 Pit stops per race (aus-bah-china)

80 SAFE PITSTOPS PERFORMED (96.3855422%)
3 deemed unsafe (3.6144578 %)
83 total pit stops performed


so now please show us how this is such a unsafe problem that needs to be addressed?????


Whether pitstops are unsafe is up for debate but the numbers you have used to try and prove they're safe are infact frighteningly unsafe.

Imagine if 3.6% of flights crashed today (3,600 flights on average) or 3% of cars on the motorway.

As someone else said, that's one per race and completely unacceptable.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
2018 Pit stops per race (aus-bah-china)

80 SAFE PITSTOPS PERFORMED (96.3855422%)
3 deemed unsafe (3.6144578 %)
83 total pit stops performed


so now please show us how this is such a unsafe problem that needs to be addressed?????


Whether pitstops are unsafe is up for debate but the numbers you have used to try and prove they're safe are infact frighteningly unsafe.

Imagine if 3.6% of flights crashed today (3,600 flights on average) or 3% of cars on the motorway.

As someone else said, that's one per race and completely unacceptable.


3 races is a pretty low sample size to draw any conclusions from. How many unsafe releases have there been since refuelling was banned?

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:59 pm
Posts: 508
Herb wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
2018 Pit stops per race (aus-bah-china)

80 SAFE PITSTOPS PERFORMED (96.3855422%)
3 deemed unsafe (3.6144578 %)
83 total pit stops performed


so now please show us how this is such a unsafe problem that needs to be addressed?????


Whether pitstops are unsafe is up for debate but the numbers you have used to try and prove they're safe are infact frighteningly unsafe.

Imagine if 3.6% of flights crashed today (3,600 flights on average) or 3% of cars on the motorway.

As someone else said, that's one per race and completely unacceptable.


3 races is a pretty low sample size to draw any conclusions from. How many unsafe releases have there been since refuelling was banned?

Well the one race in Australia caused them to create an overtaking working group, then we get actual overtaking in the following two races...


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:24 pm 
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Posts: 1026
Banana Man wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
2018 Pit stops per race (aus-bah-china)

80 SAFE PITSTOPS PERFORMED (96.3855422%)
3 deemed unsafe (3.6144578 %)
83 total pit stops performed


so now please show us how this is such a unsafe problem that needs to be addressed?????


Whether pitstops are unsafe is up for debate but the numbers you have used to try and prove they're safe are infact frighteningly unsafe.

Imagine if 3.6% of flights crashed today (3,600 flights on average) or 3% of cars on the motorway.

As someone else said, that's one per race and completely unacceptable.


Your comparing apples and oranges. Air travel is far safer mode of transportation and yet all stats still against air travel are deemed acceptable.

As for car on the road "Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day." And its acceptable. Not saying things shouldnt be changed for regular road safety but the point is Everything has an acceptable margin of error

Source : http://asirt.org/initiatives/informing- ... statistics

Claiming pitstops are "unsafe" with 3 races in would be a misrepresentation of the Pit stops in the sport as the season is 20 races long.... 1 "unsafe release" per 33 stops performed where the margin for error is ridiculously high in a 2sec stop is actually pretty good when you look at all the factors involved in the pitstop.

Now if this was an actual average over the course of the entire season [which it ISNT] THEN such a topic should be addressed and thought out on how to get the numbers down.

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Awards: Sergio perez trophy & Podium specialist
PF1 pick 3 2015: constructors 2nd, singles 5th
Autosport Gp 2016/17 - 5th
F1 Oracle 2017: 2nd (6 wins), 2016:5th (2wins)


Last edited by Mayhem on Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:55 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:32 pm
Posts: 1026
Herb wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
2018 Pit stops per race (aus-bah-china)

80 SAFE PITSTOPS PERFORMED (96.3855422%)
3 deemed unsafe (3.6144578 %)
83 total pit stops performed


so now please show us how this is such a unsafe problem that needs to be addressed?????


Whether pitstops are unsafe is up for debate but the numbers you have used to try and prove they're safe are infact frighteningly unsafe.

Imagine if 3.6% of flights crashed today (3,600 flights on average) or 3% of cars on the motorway.

As someone else said, that's one per race and completely unacceptable.


3 races is a pretty low sample size to draw any conclusions from. How many unsafe releases have there been since refuelling was banned?


As ive stated before i agree 3 races in, is no reason to hit the panic button and claim that this must be revised. But yet thats whats going here. This is how you end up with rules being made up that dont need to be changed or gimmicks to try and solve an issue that really wasnt an issue to begin with.

Teams train and practice hundreds of hours for a 2sec moment during a race. When they make a mistake they address it, guarrenteed no team who has a bad pit stop does nothing about it. Its resolved Internally and no one outside the team is the wiser.

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Awards: Sergio perez trophy & Podium specialist
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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:55 am 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 6438
Mayhem wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
2018 Pit stops per race (aus-bah-china)

80 SAFE PITSTOPS PERFORMED (96.3855422%)
3 deemed unsafe (3.6144578 %)
83 total pit stops performed


so now please show us how this is such a unsafe problem that needs to be addressed?????


Whether pitstops are unsafe is up for debate but the numbers you have used to try and prove they're safe are infact frighteningly unsafe.

Imagine if 3.6% of flights crashed today (3,600 flights on average) or 3% of cars on the motorway.

As someone else said, that's one per race and completely unacceptable.


Your comparing apples and oranges. Air travel is far safer mode of transportation and yet all stats still against air travel are deemed acceptable.

As for car on the road "Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day." And its acceptable. Not saying things shouldnt be changed for regular road safety but the point is Everything has an acceptable margin of error

Source : http://asirt.org/initiatives/informing- ... statistics

Claiming pitstops are "unsafe" with 3 races in would be a misrepresentation of the Pit stops in the sport as the season is 20 races long.... 1 "unsafe release" per 33 stops performed where the margin for error is ridiculously high in a 2sec stop is actually pretty good when you look at all the factors involved in the pitstop.

Now if this was an actual average over the course of the entire season [which it ISNT] THEN such a topic should be addressed and thought out on how to get the numbers down.

While I agree with your general point, I find the bold bit wrong, the word itself. It is not acceptable to have so many deaths. This is what the motor industry is striving to eliminate for decades with seat belts, air bags, ABS, sensors, bumpers, ban of the pop-up lights, speed limits, sleeping policemen, cameras, you name it. You can not go tell a family that lost some of their members that "yeah, it is acceptable, some of you will die".


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:32 pm
Posts: 1026
Siao7 wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
2018 Pit stops per race (aus-bah-china)

80 SAFE PITSTOPS PERFORMED (96.3855422%)
3 deemed unsafe (3.6144578 %)
83 total pit stops performed


so now please show us how this is such a unsafe problem that needs to be addressed?????


Whether pitstops are unsafe is up for debate but the numbers you have used to try and prove they're safe are infact frighteningly unsafe.

Imagine if 3.6% of flights crashed today (3,600 flights on average) or 3% of cars on the motorway.

As someone else said, that's one per race and completely unacceptable.


Your comparing apples and oranges. Air travel is far safer mode of transportation and yet all stats still against air travel are deemed acceptable.

As for car on the road "Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day." And its acceptable. Not saying things shouldnt be changed for regular road safety but the point is Everything has an acceptable margin of error

Source : http://asirt.org/initiatives/informing- ... statistics

Claiming pitstops are "unsafe" with 3 races in would be a misrepresentation of the Pit stops in the sport as the season is 20 races long.... 1 "unsafe release" per 33 stops performed where the margin for error is ridiculously high in a 2sec stop is actually pretty good when you look at all the factors involved in the pitstop.

Now if this was an actual average over the course of the entire season [which it ISNT] THEN such a topic should be addressed and thought out on how to get the numbers down.

While I agree with your general point, I find the bold bit wrong, the word itself. It is not acceptable to have so many deaths. This is what the motor industry is striving to eliminate for decades with seat belts, air bags, ABS, sensors, bumpers, ban of the pop-up lights, speed limits, sleeping policemen, cameras, you name it. You can not go tell a family that lost some of their members that "yeah, it is acceptable, some of you will die".


Agreed safety strides are being made to reduce that number in regular road cars and it is A LOT of fatalities which is why i said "Not saying things shouldnt be changed for regular road safety".


No one will tell you "yeah its acceptable some of you will die" but we all accept the risks we take via driving, flying, motorcycles etc... We know the stats but still do it anyway thats what i ment by "acceptable"

_________________
PF1 pick 10 2016: 7th (1 win, 4 podiums), 2017: 17th (3 podiums)
Awards: Sergio perez trophy & Podium specialist
PF1 pick 3 2015: constructors 2nd, singles 5th
Autosport Gp 2016/17 - 5th
F1 Oracle 2017: 2nd (6 wins), 2016:5th (2wins)


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 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:10 am 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 6438
Mayhem wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
2018 Pit stops per race (aus-bah-china)

80 SAFE PITSTOPS PERFORMED (96.3855422%)
3 deemed unsafe (3.6144578 %)
83 total pit stops performed


so now please show us how this is such a unsafe problem that needs to be addressed?????


Whether pitstops are unsafe is up for debate but the numbers you have used to try and prove they're safe are infact frighteningly unsafe.

Imagine if 3.6% of flights crashed today (3,600 flights on average) or 3% of cars on the motorway.

As someone else said, that's one per race and completely unacceptable.


Your comparing apples and oranges. Air travel is far safer mode of transportation and yet all stats still against air travel are deemed acceptable.

As for car on the road "Nearly 1.3 million people die in road crashes each year, on average 3,287 deaths a day." And its acceptable. Not saying things shouldnt be changed for regular road safety but the point is Everything has an acceptable margin of error

Source : http://asirt.org/initiatives/informing- ... statistics

Claiming pitstops are "unsafe" with 3 races in would be a misrepresentation of the Pit stops in the sport as the season is 20 races long.... 1 "unsafe release" per 33 stops performed where the margin for error is ridiculously high in a 2sec stop is actually pretty good when you look at all the factors involved in the pitstop.

Now if this was an actual average over the course of the entire season [which it ISNT] THEN such a topic should be addressed and thought out on how to get the numbers down.

While I agree with your general point, I find the bold bit wrong, the word itself. It is not acceptable to have so many deaths. This is what the motor industry is striving to eliminate for decades with seat belts, air bags, ABS, sensors, bumpers, ban of the pop-up lights, speed limits, sleeping policemen, cameras, you name it. You can not go tell a family that lost some of their members that "yeah, it is acceptable, some of you will die".


Agreed safety strides are being made to reduce that number in regular road cars and it is A LOT of fatalities which is why i said "Not saying things shouldnt be changed for regular road safety".


No one will tell you "yeah its acceptable some of you will die" but we all accept the risks we take via driving, flying, motorcycles etc... We know the stats but still do it anyway thats what i ment by "acceptable"

That's fair enough. As I said I agree with your message above!


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