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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Just confirmed on C4 - broken lower leg for the mechanic.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Bit disappointed with Bottas there, especially after his great start. He was clearly faster but seemed to have forgotten how to overtake. If that had been Hamilton he would have taken him. Good driving by Seb to eke it out.

Kimi was woeful today.


Were we watching the same race ? Kimi was faster than Vettel in the second stint. I think he was only 2secs of Bottas when he pitted


He should've been all over Bottas.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Yeh, Bottas was very underwhelming in the end,


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:08 pm 
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Longnose wrote:
With 5 laps to go, Bottas was lapping 134.6, Seb was 135.6, with a three second gap. Bottas should have had DRS for at least two laps. For last two laps, Bottas was lapping 136s, and barely getting DRS. Bottas choked, doesn't know how to pass or doesn't have the killer instinct, or all three. Bottas was completely happy with a second place finish.

That's also a lot down to the Mercedes dirty air issues.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:08 pm 
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Sky say the Ferrari mechanic broke his leg. Not going to show the footage as it's pretty graphic.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:10 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
minchy wrote:
Greenman wrote:
.

Congratulations to Vettel for an amazing win, BUT Vettel should be very, very harshly fined for the accident with the mechanic (and unsafe release). In addition, after today and last week's incident, the FIA should look at every team's tyre change and release procedures and ensure they are as safe as possible.

IF, Vettel's claim that his tyres were shot for the last 10 laps then that doesn't bode well for Mercedes.

Hope the mechanic gets well soon.

.
erm..... Kimi

Also, depends what happened. If the light went green, there's no fault from the driver.


I'm sure the light was green. I checked.


Yep, light was green, and as mentioned, just by looking at the slow mo of the pit stop, leg is broken just below knee. Kimi was fuming inside the car once he stopped, he has closing in on Bottas before the stop.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:11 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
SDLRob wrote:
Couple of laps more and Bottas had Seb...

To be honest he should have had him anyway. Hamilton would have made that move stick IMO.


Max, ALO, RIC, HAM all make that move on the last lap. Bottas bottled that, and Merc will remember it.

Strong drive from Vettel, fair play to him. Very watchable race that one.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:11 pm 
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gregs51 wrote:
Attack on Vettel came too late. I’ve said it before but I think Mercedes are strategically vulnerable when the pressure is on. Governed entirely by timing screens and not what’s actually observable on track. The race was there to be won today and they dropped it.


I agree, bottas should have put pressure on vettel earlier. not sure what the issue was that he left it too late.
kimi just cant catch a break


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Gav25182 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
SDLRob wrote:
Couple of laps more and Bottas had Seb...

To be honest he should have had him anyway. Hamilton would have made that move stick IMO.


Max, ALO, RIC, HAM all make that move on the last lap. Bottas bottled that, and Merc will remember it.

Strong drive from Vettel, fair play to him. Very watchable race that one.

Just shows that you don't need overtaking for the race to be good. Differing strategies gave us all the excitement in that race.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Greenman wrote:
.

Congratulations to Vettel for an amazing win, BUT Vettel should be very, very harshly fined for the accident with the mechanic (and unsafe release). In addition, after today and last week's incident, the FIA should look at every team's tyre change and release procedures and ensure they are as safe as possible.

IF, Vettel's claim that his tyres were shot for the last 10 laps then that doesn't bode well for Mercedes.

Hope the mechanic gets well soon.

.

That was Kimi.

Yeah I hope we get some news to say the mechanic is OK soon.

Ferrari/Kimi should be penalized. Two unsafe releases over the weekend.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:14 pm 
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PRFAN wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
minchy wrote:
Greenman wrote:
.

Congratulations to Vettel for an amazing win, BUT Vettel should be very, very harshly fined for the accident with the mechanic (and unsafe release). In addition, after today and last week's incident, the FIA should look at every team's tyre change and release procedures and ensure they are as safe as possible.

IF, Vettel's claim that his tyres were shot for the last 10 laps then that doesn't bode well for Mercedes.

Hope the mechanic gets well soon.

.
erm..... Kimi

Also, depends what happened. If the light went green, there's no fault from the driver.


I'm sure the light was green. I checked.


Yep, light was green, and as mentioned, just by looking at the slow mo of the pit stop, leg is broken just below knee. Kimi was fuming inside the car once he stopped, he has closing in on Bottas before the stop.


I think it's time to scrap the automated traffic lights. The 2s pit stops are an impressive feat, but they are dangerous.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Longnose wrote:
With 5 laps to go, Bottas was lapping 134.6, Seb was 135.6, with a three second gap. Bottas should have had DRS for at least two laps. For last two laps, Bottas was lapping 136s, and barely getting DRS. Bottas choked, doesn't know how to pass or doesn't have the killer instinct, or all three. Bottas was completely happy with a second place finish.


Bottas should have pushed sooner forcing vettel into a 2 stop or atleast making vettels tires fall off completely for the closing stages of the race. Bottas locked up twice at turn 10 allowing vettel to pull away enough to prevent him from setting up the pass at the corresponding drs zones

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:15 pm 
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minchy wrote:
Gav25182 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
SDLRob wrote:
Couple of laps more and Bottas had Seb...

To be honest he should have had him anyway. Hamilton would have made that move stick IMO.


Max, ALO, RIC, HAM all make that move on the last lap. Bottas bottled that, and Merc will remember it.

Strong drive from Vettel, fair play to him. Very watchable race that one.

Just shows that you don't need overtaking for the race to be good. Differing strategies gave us all the excitement in that race.


Absolutely. I don't mind races with little overtakes, I still wouldn't miss a race.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:15 pm 
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Bring back fueling and the leg is OK
AND the racing is BETTER!
Epic Vettle
Vettel whines about blue flags but hamilton says it and just as side note.
More UK crap lets get some international flavor in it.
Go Gasley
Fernando chipping away - some updates and carnage away from title Rahal style.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:15 pm 
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I'll be honest, Ferrari should have got Kimi back in the race.

Herbert clearly doesn't remember dislocating Steve Marchetts shoulders.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:15 pm 
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Bottas could've had five more laps and he still would have been behind Vettel. No way Mercedes is happy with Bottas right now, he can't get it done when it matters.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:16 pm 
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minchy wrote:
Is it not possible to still service the car by pushing it backwards if it hasn't left the pit lane?



i believe, but am not positive, they could have pushed it back and changed the tire. problem is they had a guy laying in the pit box with a severely broken leg. that needed to be dealt with. sucks for kr, but nothing to be done about it. sucks worse for the mechanic, obviously


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:16 pm 
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Great race to the end. Of course Vettel holding Bottas off for the win with scrub tyres (and the memory of past blow outs at Ferrari and RBR when they risked a too long game) was icing on the cake, but it was pretty exciting all around with the different strategies, etc. Sad about the Ferrari mechanic being hit and breaking his leg; glad it wasn't worse.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:20 pm 
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Mayhem wrote:
Longnose wrote:
With 5 laps to go, Bottas was lapping 134.6, Seb was 135.6, with a three second gap. Bottas should have had DRS for at least two laps. For last two laps, Bottas was lapping 136s, and barely getting DRS. Bottas choked, doesn't know how to pass or doesn't have the killer instinct, or all three. Bottas was completely happy with a second place finish.


Bottas should have pushed sooner forcing vettel into a 2 stop or atleast making vettels tires fall off completely for the closing stages of the race. Bottas locked up twice at turn 10 allowing vettel to pull away enough to prevent him from setting up the pass at the corresponding drs zones


The team called it - they thought Ferrari was going to stop - even after Kimi being derailed. By the time they suggested to Bottas Seb might not stop again, he was nearly 8 seconds behind with 12 or so laps to go. So it was a hard ask for Bottas - and btw, same for Hamilton. He was depending on the stop from Vettel too until the same point, at which time he too started hauling.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:21 pm 
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gregs51 wrote:
Attack on Vettel came too late. I’ve said it before but I think Mercedes are strategically vulnerable when the pressure is on. Governed entirely by timing screens and not what’s actually observable on track. The race was there to be won today and they dropped it.

I've thought this for a couple of years now. Considering how many people they have analysising the race data they do seem to make plenty of strategy errors.

Think Bottas was probably given the hurry up too late but he still had a chance there. When he put the hards on, I got him at 8/1 to win the race so I'm pretty disappointed he didn't throw it up the inside at turn 1


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:22 pm 
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If Ham and Bottas had started in swapped grid positions at the start of the race, Hamilton probably wins the race, but I don't think Merc had a faster car than Ferrari. Simply, the 2nd strategy option was way more effective than teams predicted, and that put pressure on Ferrari. Fortunately though, the Ferrari package is good enough, and their lead driver was good enough, to eke out the win and make the 1-stopper on the softs work. The strategies worked in a weird way this race with Merc effective on generally harder compounds and Ferrari effective on all compounds, and the medium 1-stopper proving very effective and working to Mercs advantage with Ferrari opting for a brave strategy choice to do the same but on the soft in the face of pressure they didn't necessarily expect according to the number crunching.


Last edited by Invade on Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:24 pm 
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Gasly had faster race pace than Hulk & Alonso. Still early days but I'm getting quite convinced Red Bull will switch to Honda next year. Weren't the 2 retirements today due to Renault engine?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:26 pm 
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I knew Bottas was a useless driver, but jeez, that is a totally another level of incompetent driving.

I know it was against a top, top, top drawer driver, but still.

Just pathetic.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Invade wrote:
If Ham and Bottas swapped positions at the start of the race, Hamilton probably wins the race, but I don't think Merc had a faster car than Ferrari. Simply, the 2nd strategy option was way more effective than teams predicted, and that put pressure on Ferrari. Fortunately though, the Ferrari package is good enough, and their lead driver was good enough, to eke out the win and make the 1-stopper on the softs work. The strategies worked in a weird way this race with Merc effective on generally harder compounds and Ferrari effective on all compounds, and the medium 1-stopper proving very effective and working to Mercs advantage with Ferrari opting for a brave strategy choice to do the same but on the soft in the face of pressure they didn't necessarily expect according to the number crunching.


How could they possibly swap the positions at the start of the race? Hamilton was never anywhere close to Bottas. Was Bottas to DNF at any stage of the race, it wouldn't make a difference whatsoever, Ham was never to win (unless something happened to Vet).


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:26 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Gasly had faster race pace than Hulk & Alonso. Still early days but I'm getting quite convinced Red Bull will switch to Honda next year. Weren't the 2 retirements today due to Renault engine?


One electrical failure and one diff I believe from the contact with Lewis.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:26 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
I knew Bottas was a useless driver, but jeez, that is a totally another level of incompetent driving.

I know it was against a top, top, top drawer driver, but still.

Just pathetic.


I thought he was underwhelming but damn - that's savage! 8O


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:28 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Gasly had faster race pace than Hulk & Alonso. Still early days but I'm getting quite convinced Red Bull will switch to Honda next year. Weren't the 2 retirements today due to Renault engine?
I haven't heard about Ricciardo, but Max got his differential damaged in his dogfight with Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:28 pm 
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Prema wrote:
Invade wrote:
If Ham and Bottas swapped positions at the start of the race, Hamilton probably wins the race, but I don't think Merc had a faster car than Ferrari. Simply, the 2nd strategy option was way more effective than teams predicted, and that put pressure on Ferrari. Fortunately though, the Ferrari package is good enough, and their lead driver was good enough, to eke out the win and make the 1-stopper on the softs work. The strategies worked in a weird way this race with Merc effective on generally harder compounds and Ferrari effective on all compounds, and the medium 1-stopper proving very effective and working to Mercs advantage with Ferrari opting for a brave strategy choice to do the same but on the soft in the face of pressure they didn't necessarily expect according to the number crunching.


How could they possibly swap the positions at the start of the race? Hamilton was never anywhere close to Bottas. Was Bottas to DNF at any stage of the race, it wouldn't make a difference whatsoever, Ham was never to win (unless something happened to Vet).


Eh?
I mean if you replay the weekend and there's no gearbox problem and Ham qualifies in P3 and Bottas in P9. Obviously they can't swap positions - I didn't mean in the race.

I'll edit it to make it clearer.


Last edited by Invade on Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:28 pm 
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Prema wrote:
Invade wrote:
If Ham and Bottas swapped positions at the start of the race, Hamilton probably wins the race, but I don't think Merc had a faster car than Ferrari. Simply, the 2nd strategy option was way more effective than teams predicted, and that put pressure on Ferrari. Fortunately though, the Ferrari package is good enough, and their lead driver was good enough, to eke out the win and make the 1-stopper on the softs work. The strategies worked in a weird way this race with Merc effective on generally harder compounds and Ferrari effective on all compounds, and the medium 1-stopper proving very effective and working to Mercs advantage with Ferrari opting for a brave strategy choice to do the same but on the soft in the face of pressure they didn't necessarily expect according to the number crunching.


How could they possibly swap the positions at the start of the race? Hamilton was never anywhere close to Bottas. Was Bottas to DNF at any stage of the race, it wouldn't make a difference whatsoever, Ham was never to win (unless something happened to Vet).


Oh, I get it.. you meant, if Ham was the P3.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Gav25182 wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
minchy wrote:
Greenman wrote:
.

Congratulations to Vettel for an amazing win, BUT Vettel should be very, very harshly fined for the accident with the mechanic (and unsafe release). In addition, after today and last week's incident, the FIA should look at every team's tyre change and release procedures and ensure they are as safe as possible.

IF, Vettel's claim that his tyres were shot for the last 10 laps then that doesn't bode well for Mercedes.

Hope the mechanic gets well soon.

.
erm..... Kimi

Also, depends what happened. If the light went green, there's no fault from the driver.


I'm sure the light was green. I checked.


Yep, light was green, and as mentioned, just by looking at the slow mo of the pit stop, leg is broken just below knee. Kimi was fuming inside the car once he stopped, he has closing in on Bottas before the stop.


I think it's time to scrap the automated traffic lights. The 2s pit stops are an impressive feat, but they are dangerous.

I agree. The mechanics' safety should be taken just as seriously as the drivers', and these automated systems are demonstrably dangerous and have resulted in too many incidents of cars being wrongly released.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Sky say the Ferrari mechanic broke his leg. Not going to show the footage as it's pretty graphic.


Posting the image of the point when the car accelerates over his leg. It's graphic in the video but hopefully not in the image for some members here:

Image
Source - www.imgur.com

Sadly his leg got twisted backwards. He's going to take some time to recovery. Wishing a speedy recovery. This just shows these cars at even slower speeds can cause damage. Motorsports can never be safe due to instances such as these.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Invade wrote:
Prema wrote:
Invade wrote:
If Ham and Bottas swapped positions at the start of the race, Hamilton probably wins the race, but I don't think Merc had a faster car than Ferrari. Simply, the 2nd strategy option was way more effective than teams predicted, and that put pressure on Ferrari. Fortunately though, the Ferrari package is good enough, and their lead driver was good enough, to eke out the win and make the 1-stopper on the softs work. The strategies worked in a weird way this race with Merc effective on generally harder compounds and Ferrari effective on all compounds, and the medium 1-stopper proving very effective and working to Mercs advantage with Ferrari opting for a brave strategy choice to do the same but on the soft in the face of pressure they didn't necessarily expect according to the number crunching.


How could they possibly swap the positions at the start of the race? Hamilton was never anywhere close to Bottas. Was Bottas to DNF at any stage of the race, it wouldn't make a difference whatsoever, Ham was never to win (unless something happened to Vet).


Eh?
I mean if you replay the weekend and there's no gearbox problem and Ham qualifies in P3 and Bottas in P9. Obviously they can't swap positions - I didn't mean in the race.

I'll edit it to make it clearer.


Yeah, I figured that out the moment I sent the replay.
Anyway, Ham is better than Bot, that's to say. He would have done the better job... if...
Sure.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:31 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Sky say the Ferrari mechanic broke his leg. Not going to show the footage as it's pretty graphic.


Posting the image of the point when the car accelerates over his leg. It's graphic in the video but hopefully not in the image for some members here:

Image
Source - http://www.imgur.com

Sadly his leg got twisted backwards. He's going to take some time to recovery. Wishing a speedy recovery. This just shows these cars at even slower speeds can cause damage. Motorsports can never be safe due to instances such as these.


Horrid. That's not the direction legs go.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:32 pm 
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Prema wrote:
Invade wrote:
Prema wrote:
Invade wrote:
If Ham and Bottas swapped positions at the start of the race, Hamilton probably wins the race, but I don't think Merc had a faster car than Ferrari. Simply, the 2nd strategy option was way more effective than teams predicted, and that put pressure on Ferrari. Fortunately though, the Ferrari package is good enough, and their lead driver was good enough, to eke out the win and make the 1-stopper on the softs work. The strategies worked in a weird way this race with Merc effective on generally harder compounds and Ferrari effective on all compounds, and the medium 1-stopper proving very effective and working to Mercs advantage with Ferrari opting for a brave strategy choice to do the same but on the soft in the face of pressure they didn't necessarily expect according to the number crunching.


How could they possibly swap the positions at the start of the race? Hamilton was never anywhere close to Bottas. Was Bottas to DNF at any stage of the race, it wouldn't make a difference whatsoever, Ham was never to win (unless something happened to Vet).


Eh?
I mean if you replay the weekend and there's no gearbox problem and Ham qualifies in P3 and Bottas in P9. Obviously they can't swap positions - I didn't mean in the race.

I'll edit it to make it clearer.


Yeah, I figured that out the moment I sent the replay.
Anyway, Ham is better than Bot, that's to say. He would have done the better job... if...
Sure.


That's not the main point of my post though. It's a precursor to the talk on strategy and car race pace.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:37 pm 
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Invade wrote:
Prema wrote:
Invade wrote:
Prema wrote:
Invade wrote:
If Ham and Bottas swapped positions at the start of the race, Hamilton probably wins the race, but I don't think Merc had a faster car than Ferrari. Simply, the 2nd strategy option was way more effective than teams predicted, and that put pressure on Ferrari. Fortunately though, the Ferrari package is good enough, and their lead driver was good enough, to eke out the win and make the 1-stopper on the softs work. The strategies worked in a weird way this race with Merc effective on generally harder compounds and Ferrari effective on all compounds, and the medium 1-stopper proving very effective and working to Mercs advantage with Ferrari opting for a brave strategy choice to do the same but on the soft in the face of pressure they didn't necessarily expect according to the number crunching.


How could they possibly swap the positions at the start of the race? Hamilton was never anywhere close to Bottas. Was Bottas to DNF at any stage of the race, it wouldn't make a difference whatsoever, Ham was never to win (unless something happened to Vet).


Eh?
I mean if you replay the weekend and there's no gearbox problem and Ham qualifies in P3 and Bottas in P9. Obviously they can't swap positions - I didn't mean in the race.

I'll edit it to make it clearer.


Yeah, I figured that out the moment I sent the replay.
Anyway, Ham is better than Bot, that's to say. He would have done the better job... if...
Sure.


That's not the main point of my post though. It's a precursor to the talk on strategy and car race pace.


Well, I thought that that was indeed the main point here. Was Hamilton in the start position of Bottas (P3) he would had won the race. Because he is Hamilton and not Bottas.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Prema wrote:

Well, I thought that that was indeed the main point here. Was Hamilton in the start position of Bottas (P3) he would had won the race. Because he is Hamilton and not Bottas.


No what I'm saying is something like: Even though Hamilton probably would have won the race even from the second row, I don't think it means the Mercedes car had better pace in the race, but that the 2nd main strategy option was substantially better than predicted by the teams. Or that if teams matches strategies pace would prove equal. As it happened even a C-option (one stopper on softs) proved to be an effective if theoretically slower strategy, which is to the credit of the driver and the car.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:47 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Good damage limitation from McLaren to get a double points finish out of this poor weekend. Vintage McLaren strategy for Alonso.

McLaren 3rd in WCC and the leading Renault team.

Yes you just read that...


Amazing ! considering both Maccs got lapped today... goes to show how far ahead both Merc and Ferrari is ahead of the rest..


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:47 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Good damage limitation from McLaren to get a double points finish out of this poor weekend. Vintage McLaren strategy for Alonso.

McLaren 3rd in WCC and the leading Renault team.

Yes you just read that...


Amazing ! considering both Maccs got lapped today... goes to show how far ahead both Merc and Ferrari are ahead of the rest..


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:48 pm 
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Longnose wrote:
Bottas could've had five more laps and he still would have been behind Vettel. No way Mercedes is happy with Bottas right now, he can't get it done when it matters.


Do you really not concider that dirty air will have been a big factor in this. Even though Vettel was on more affected tyres, Bottasn't were not new and it will have been really hard. I don't agree that he won't have been able to do it if he'd been allowed to go sooner. He did get closer and closer every lap. As demonstrated by the very very close finish (channel 4 said it was possibly the closest ever here). Mercedes telling him to flaw it just 1 or 2 laps sooner will certainly have made it very likely that he will have managed to overtake. Bottas had a better weekend than Hamilton so I don't think we should be against him that much...

It is clear Bottas had the pace that when he went for it, he was catching at a second a lap! The dirty air will have been what made him look worse than he really was. And yet it was really close. I just think Mercedes calculated the number of laps this would take wrong.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:51 pm 
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j man wrote:
Gav25182 wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
erm..... Kimi

Also, depends what happened. If the light went green, there's no fault from the driver.


I'm sure the light was green. I checked.


Yep, light was green, and as mentioned, just by looking at the slow mo of the pit stop, leg is broken just below knee. Kimi was fuming inside the car once he stopped, he has closing in on Bottas before the stop.


I think it's time to scrap the automated traffic lights. The 2s pit stops are an impressive feat, but they are dangerous.

I agree. The mechanics' safety should be taken just as seriously as the drivers', and these automated systems are demonstrably dangerous and have resulted in too many incidents of cars being wrongly released.[/quote]

I agree as well. I'm usually not the first one to spout about safety over sport/show, but I really don't see any advantage to the show or in sporting sense for these automated systems. And I've been thinking the same way from the day they were introduced, not only now when something like this happens.


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