planetf1.com

It is currently Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:03 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Fair enough, could well be.

Lotus49 wrote:

Stoff also talked about having a positive feeling in the car during testing which doesn't sound like he thinks it's undriveable. He was just talking about spending more time with Prod too so I don't know what you mean about not being strong enough. What did Lewis stop that Vandoorne didn't?

His style was unique on Michelins but he changed it for the switch to Bridgestones, I honestly don't know if he has a particularly unique style now. Even so it doesn't matter as the designers aren't going to listen to him if its detrimental to car performance. And if his way is the quickest way and his team mate can't extract it then that's on them.

So it was Finnish TV then,right? It's a Kimi pull rod related nerve tbh, I have a low tolerance for such obvious manure made up to explain away issues in 2014 but which somehow remains despite 4 further years of the same rubbish form for that driver, across both pull and push rod, 2 different tyre structures and 2 different car regulations.

Meanwhile Alonso's using push rods now at McLaren but is still somehow doing it. Seems he can create an undriveable car for any team mate whatever the car or suspension. Or he's just better of course and has a far wider working window than most drivers like seemingly everyone, including Stoff, keeps telling us.

Yeah I have no interesting in continuing discussing with you when you can't seem to tone it down.


:?:

Manure is too strong? I'm pretty sure I carried on the tone with which you started but fair enough.


In fairness, I could see Macca bending backwards to whatever Alonso demands in order to please him. They are really going backwards and Alonso is the only big name that would consider driving for them at the moment with their form. Maybe this never happened in the past, but I wouldn't put it past them at this stage


Plus, consider where they would be with two Vandoorne's points-wise ...
Alonso single-handedly saves them some wcc money.

I personally would like Alonso to go to Renault, they are a works team that are steadily ramping up their resources, it wouldn't surprise me to see them as the 4th best team next season it's just a question of how much they can close the gap to the big 3, but I see them as the best placed.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 5025
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Lewis and Bottas's 2 year deals will get announced at Silverstone I think. Dan's 2 year deal with Red Bull announced sometime this week. Monza for Leclerc's 2yr deal to Ferrari.

Everyone out of contract at the end of 2020 so that will be an epic one. Next year's not so much, might be the dullest in history.

McLaren situation whenever Alonso makes his mind up or they score a podium (Apparently that's the trigger for Alonso's 1+1 deal on their side or certain performance marks they're unlikely to hit anyway).

Renault's 2nd seat situation either after Red Bull decide what's happening with Sainz or after Alonso decides what he's doing.

Kimi to retire.

That all seems to be what's mooted and on the money, so much for Alonso's multi-year contract and commitment to McLaren, I knew it would have performance clauses. :)


1+1 was mooted from the start and common sense finally and arguably the first thing he's done right contract wise since 2000.

Now he just needs to pick his team mate as a condition of his next contract, seems to be the way to go. :)

No I think we all knew what Alonso's contract would be it's Alonso's own wording that his signing of a multi-year contract with McLaren was proof of his commitment to the team, got to love the guy. :)


You think he's the only top driver with options in his contract?

Common sense prevailed for once with him. Kinda like when me and sandman told you Lewis would wait until the summer until he extended as it's common sense and you got all upset with us and insisted it would be done in the winter because you thought his team would take it as an insult if he waited and here we are in July still waiting.

Mercedes don't seem insulted, quite the opposite, they've effectively given him the veto you seem to hold with such contempt by giving him the team mate he wanted for the duration of his extension. At least on form Bottas deserves it but you've got to feel for Ocon and Russell a bit but that's the game I suppose.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Lewis and Bottas's 2 year deals will get announced at Silverstone I think. Dan's 2 year deal with Red Bull announced sometime this week. Monza for Leclerc's 2yr deal to Ferrari.

Everyone out of contract at the end of 2020 so that will be an epic one. Next year's not so much, might be the dullest in history.

McLaren situation whenever Alonso makes his mind up or they score a podium (Apparently that's the trigger for Alonso's 1+1 deal on their side or certain performance marks they're unlikely to hit anyway).

Renault's 2nd seat situation either after Red Bull decide what's happening with Sainz or after Alonso decides what he's doing.

Kimi to retire.

That all seems to be what's mooted and on the money, so much for Alonso's multi-year contract and commitment to McLaren, I knew it would have performance clauses. :)


1+1 was mooted from the start and common sense finally and arguably the first thing he's done right contract wise since 2000.

Now he just needs to pick his team mate as a condition of his next contract, seems to be the way to go. :)

No I think we all knew what Alonso's contract would be it's Alonso's own wording that his signing of a multi-year contract with McLaren was proof of his commitment to the team, got to love the guy. :)


You think he's the only top driver with options in his contract?

Common sense prevailed for once with him. Kinda like when me and sandman told you Lewis would wait until the summer until he extended as it's common sense and you got all upset with us and insisted it would be done in the winter because you thought his team would take it as an insult if he waited and here we are in July still waiting.

Mercedes don't seem insulted, quite the opposite, they've effectively given him the veto you seem to hold with such contempt by giving him the team mate he wanted for the duration of his extension. At least on form Bottas deserves it but you've got to feel for Ocon and Russell a bit but that's the game I suppose.

I said that Mercedes would be insulted if Hamilton joined Ferrari.

What I'm saying about Alonso is how he said that his multi year contract with McLaren shows his commitment to the team, of course we all knew what his contract would actually be, it's all pantomime from Alonso.

When Hamilton resigns with Mercedes it will be an actual multi year contract with no get out clauses.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23943
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
That all seems to be what's mooted and on the money, so much for Alonso's multi-year contract and commitment to McLaren, I knew it would have performance clauses. :)


1+1 was mooted from the start and common sense finally and arguably the first thing he's done right contract wise since 2000.

Now he just needs to pick his team mate as a condition of his next contract, seems to be the way to go. :)

No I think we all knew what Alonso's contract would be it's Alonso's own wording that his signing of a multi-year contract with McLaren was proof of his commitment to the team, got to love the guy. :)


You think he's the only top driver with options in his contract?

Common sense prevailed for once with him. Kinda like when me and sandman told you Lewis would wait until the summer until he extended as it's common sense and you got all upset with us and insisted it would be done in the winter because you thought his team would take it as an insult if he waited and here we are in July still waiting.

Mercedes don't seem insulted, quite the opposite, they've effectively given him the veto you seem to hold with such contempt by giving him the team mate he wanted for the duration of his extension. At least on form Bottas deserves it but you've got to feel for Ocon and Russell a bit but that's the game I suppose.

I said that Mercedes would be insulted if Hamilton joined Ferrari.

What I'm saying about Alonso is how he said that his multi year contract with McLaren shows his commitment to the team, of course we all knew what his contract would actually be, it's all pantomime from Alonso.

When Hamilton resigns with Mercedes it will be an actual multi year contract with no get out clauses.

where do you come up with this cr@p, seriously? How can you possibly make such an outlandish claim? Who here has ever seen a contract from a current driver that would enable you to predict its contents with such accuracy? I honestly don't get how you're not embarrassed at spouting this stuff


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 14283
Zoue wrote:
where do you come up with this cr@p, seriously? How can you possibly make such an outlandish claim? Who here has ever seen a contract from a current driver that would enable you to predict its contents with such accuracy? I honestly don't get how you're not embarrassed at spouting this stuff


Sorry Poker, I'm with Zoue on this one. Unless you're Hamilton's agent (Some cruel people might say that would explain a few things ;) ) then you have absolutely no idea. I find it very unlikely Hamilton or anybody else would sign a contract with no get out clause at all. What if he decided to retire?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 5:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 5025
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
That all seems to be what's mooted and on the money, so much for Alonso's multi-year contract and commitment to McLaren, I knew it would have performance clauses. :)


1+1 was mooted from the start and common sense finally and arguably the first thing he's done right contract wise since 2000.

Now he just needs to pick his team mate as a condition of his next contract, seems to be the way to go. :)

No I think we all knew what Alonso's contract would be it's Alonso's own wording that his signing of a multi-year contract with McLaren was proof of his commitment to the team, got to love the guy. :)


You think he's the only top driver with options in his contract?

Common sense prevailed for once with him. Kinda like when me and sandman told you Lewis would wait until the summer until he extended as it's common sense and you got all upset with us and insisted it would be done in the winter because you thought his team would take it as an insult if he waited and here we are in July still waiting.

Mercedes don't seem insulted, quite the opposite, they've effectively given him the veto you seem to hold with such contempt by giving him the team mate he wanted for the duration of his extension. At least on form Bottas deserves it but you've got to feel for Ocon and Russell a bit but that's the game I suppose.

I said that Mercedes would be insulted if Hamilton joined Ferrari.

What I'm saying about Alonso is how he said that his multi year contract with McLaren shows his commitment to the team, of course we all knew what his contract would actually be, it's all pantomime from Alonso.

When Hamilton resigns with Mercedes it will be an actual multi year contract with no get out clauses.


No you were upset at the suggestion myself and sandman made that he should wait until the summer to extend to get a lay of the land and insisted Lewis would sign in the winter as to not insult his team by dragging it out to the summer.

Signing a multi year deal is commitment. If McLaren holds up their end then he holds up his. That's the commitment.

How do you know what'll be in Lewis's contract? You were wrong about when he'd sign it so how can you be confident about that?

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:47 pm
Posts: 3107
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
No I think we all knew what Alonso's contract would be it's Alonso's own wording that his signing of a multi-year contract with McLaren was proof of his commitment to the team, got to love the guy. :)


You think he's the only top driver with options in his contract?

Common sense prevailed for once with him. Kinda like when me and sandman told you Lewis would wait until the summer until he extended as it's common sense and you got all upset with us and insisted it would be done in the winter because you thought his team would take it as an insult if he waited and here we are in July still waiting.

Mercedes don't seem insulted, quite the opposite, they've effectively given him the veto you seem to hold with such contempt by giving him the team mate he wanted for the duration of his extension. At least on form Bottas deserves it but you've got to feel for Ocon and Russell a bit but that's the game I suppose.

I said that Mercedes would be insulted if Hamilton joined Ferrari.

What I'm saying about Alonso is how he said that his multi year contract with McLaren shows his commitment to the team, of course we all knew what his contract would actually be, it's all pantomime from Alonso.

When Hamilton resigns with Mercedes it will be an actual multi year contract with no get out clauses.

where do you come up with this cr@p, seriously? How can you possibly make such an outlandish claim? Who here has ever seen a contract from a current driver that would enable you to predict its contents with such accuracy? I honestly don't get how you're not embarrassed at spouting this stuff


Agreed 100%. Unless you are someone who works for either Mercedes or Lewis Hamilton in drawing up these contracts, you have literally zero idea what clauses are included by either party. To suggest otherwise is just bollocks.

_________________
Pick 10 | 1st x3, 2nd x3, 3rd x7
2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Did Alonso have a get out clause with Mclaren Honda, I know he didn't have a get out clause with Ferrari, he had to get a verbal agreement from LDM.

Of course I exclude such things as contracts being bought out.

Another thing if get out clauses are so common why did Alonso get caught out by Vettel having such a clause when he got out maneuvered in his dealings with Ferrari?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 2063
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
where do you come up with this cr@p, seriously? How can you possibly make such an outlandish claim? Who here has ever seen a contract from a current driver that would enable you to predict its contents with such accuracy? I honestly don't get how you're not embarrassed at spouting this stuff


Sorry Poker, I'm with Zoue on this one. Unless you're Hamilton's agent (Some cruel people might say that would explain a few things ;) ) then you have absolutely no idea. I find it very unlikely Hamilton or anybody else would sign a contract with no get out clause at all. What if he decided to retire?


:thumbup:

There usually will be some performance-related clauses in each contract, next to the standard "get-out"-clauses. Both sides will have their duties defined (including performance guarantees - or better: promises) and if one side fail, the other can decide to terminate the contract within a defined timeframe.

I am very, very certain that if Mercedes or Ferrari would drop into the bottom half or third of the wcc table, Hamilton and Vettel, respectively, would be frank free to go to wherever they want. Just as their teams would be frank-free to hire another driver if any of both would suddenly perform way below their teammates, e.g. tundling around at the back of the grid while the car is capable of winning races.

No serious contract lawyer would "allow" them to make contracts without such clauses.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:04 pm
Posts: 428
pokerman wrote:
Did Alonso have a get out clause with Mclaren Honda, I know he didn't have a get out clause with Ferrari, he had to get a verbal agreement from LDM.

Of course I exclude such things as contracts being bought out.

Another thing if get out clauses are so common why did Alonso get caught out by Vettel having such a clause when he got out maneuvered in his dealings with Ferrari?

Pokerman, you claim to have so much contract experience. Please either:
- Post one of the contracts you have spoken about with a valid source to back up your claims
- Stop making up rubbish claims


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
where do you come up with this cr@p, seriously? How can you possibly make such an outlandish claim? Who here has ever seen a contract from a current driver that would enable you to predict its contents with such accuracy? I honestly don't get how you're not embarrassed at spouting this stuff


Sorry Poker, I'm with Zoue on this one. Unless you're Hamilton's agent (Some cruel people might say that would explain a few things ;) ) then you have absolutely no idea. I find it very unlikely Hamilton or anybody else would sign a contract with no get out clause at all. What if he decided to retire?


:thumbup:

There usually will be some performance-related clauses in each contract, next to the standard "get-out"-clauses. Both sides will have their duties defined (including performance guarantees - or better: promises) and if one side fail, the other can decide to terminate the contract within a defined timeframe.

I am very, very certain that if Mercedes or Ferrari would drop into the bottom half or third of the wcc table, Hamilton and Vettel, respectively, would be frank free to go to wherever they want. Just as their teams would be frank-free to hire another driver if any of both would suddenly perform way below their teammates, e.g. tundling around at the back of the grid while the car is capable of winning races.

No serious contract lawyer would "allow" them to make contracts without such clauses.

Alonso seemed fairly stuck at McLaren Honda, any such talk of him joining the likes of Mercedes were firmly met with Alonso has a biding contract with the team.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 2063
pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
where do you come up with this cr@p, seriously? How can you possibly make such an outlandish claim? Who here has ever seen a contract from a current driver that would enable you to predict its contents with such accuracy? I honestly don't get how you're not embarrassed at spouting this stuff


Sorry Poker, I'm with Zoue on this one. Unless you're Hamilton's agent (Some cruel people might say that would explain a few things ;) ) then you have absolutely no idea. I find it very unlikely Hamilton or anybody else would sign a contract with no get out clause at all. What if he decided to retire?


:thumbup:

There usually will be some performance-related clauses in each contract, next to the standard "get-out"-clauses. Both sides will have their duties defined (including performance guarantees - or better: promises) and if one side fail, the other can decide to terminate the contract within a defined timeframe.

I am very, very certain that if Mercedes or Ferrari would drop into the bottom half or third of the wcc table, Hamilton and Vettel, respectively, would be frank free to go to wherever they want. Just as their teams would be frank-free to hire another driver if any of both would suddenly perform way below their teammates, e.g. tundling around at the back of the grid while the car is capable of winning races.

No serious contract lawyer would "allow" them to make contracts without such clauses.

Alonso seemed fairly stuck at McLaren Honda, any such talk of him joining the likes of Mercedes were firmly met with Alonso has a biding contract with the team.


You mean "the likes of Mercedes" were trying to sign him but were prevented by the contract?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Gumption wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Did Alonso have a get out clause with Mclaren Honda, I know he didn't have a get out clause with Ferrari, he had to get a verbal agreement from LDM.

Of course I exclude such things as contracts being bought out.

Another thing if get out clauses are so common why did Alonso get caught out by Vettel having such a clause when he got out maneuvered in his dealings with Ferrari?

Pokerman, you claim to have so much contract experience. Please either:
- Post one of the contracts you have spoken about with a valid source to back up your claims
- Stop making up rubbish claims

Obviously I don't have such access but it was said that when Alonso signed for Ferrari he had 2 options, one had get out clauses the other didn't but paid him more money, he chose the latter.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
where do you come up with this cr@p, seriously? How can you possibly make such an outlandish claim? Who here has ever seen a contract from a current driver that would enable you to predict its contents with such accuracy? I honestly don't get how you're not embarrassed at spouting this stuff


Sorry Poker, I'm with Zoue on this one. Unless you're Hamilton's agent (Some cruel people might say that would explain a few things ;) ) then you have absolutely no idea. I find it very unlikely Hamilton or anybody else would sign a contract with no get out clause at all. What if he decided to retire?


:thumbup:

There usually will be some performance-related clauses in each contract, next to the standard "get-out"-clauses. Both sides will have their duties defined (including performance guarantees - or better: promises) and if one side fail, the other can decide to terminate the contract within a defined timeframe.

I am very, very certain that if Mercedes or Ferrari would drop into the bottom half or third of the wcc table, Hamilton and Vettel, respectively, would be frank free to go to wherever they want. Just as their teams would be frank-free to hire another driver if any of both would suddenly perform way below their teammates, e.g. tundling around at the back of the grid while the car is capable of winning races.

No serious contract lawyer would "allow" them to make contracts without such clauses.

Alonso seemed fairly stuck at McLaren Honda, any such talk of him joining the likes of Mercedes were firmly met with Alonso has a biding contract with the team.


You mean "the likes of Mercedes" were trying to sign him but were prevented by the contract?

I mean that when Zack Brown was quizzed about Alonso going to Mercedes he said that Alonso had a contract with them, Alonso himself said he preferred to stay at McLaren, if you believe that?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 2063
pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

Sorry Poker, I'm with Zoue on this one. Unless you're Hamilton's agent (Some cruel people might say that would explain a few things ;) ) then you have absolutely no idea. I find it very unlikely Hamilton or anybody else would sign a contract with no get out clause at all. What if he decided to retire?


:thumbup:

There usually will be some performance-related clauses in each contract, next to the standard "get-out"-clauses. Both sides will have their duties defined (including performance guarantees - or better: promises) and if one side fail, the other can decide to terminate the contract within a defined timeframe.

I am very, very certain that if Mercedes or Ferrari would drop into the bottom half or third of the wcc table, Hamilton and Vettel, respectively, would be frank free to go to wherever they want. Just as their teams would be frank-free to hire another driver if any of both would suddenly perform way below their teammates, e.g. tundling around at the back of the grid while the car is capable of winning races.

No serious contract lawyer would "allow" them to make contracts without such clauses.

Alonso seemed fairly stuck at McLaren Honda, any such talk of him joining the likes of Mercedes were firmly met with Alonso has a biding contract with the team.


You mean "the likes of Mercedes" were trying to sign him but were prevented by the contract?

I mean that when Zack Brown was quizzed about Alonso going to Mercedes he said that Alonso had a contract with them, Alonso himself said he preferred to stay at McLaren, if you believe that?


Edit (correcting misunderstanding): Zack Brown surely had a strategic interest not to say "yes, he is a free agent".

Weren't you among those who always claimed that Alonso has no options because other top teams do not want him? If that is true, it cannot be clauses preventing the switch, can it? You can't have it both ways.


Last edited by Paolo_Lasardi on Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Horner says that Verstappen had no get out clauses on his original Red Bull contract, he talks of the contract being absolute.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... until-when

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
:thumbup:

There usually will be some performance-related clauses in each contract, next to the standard "get-out"-clauses. Both sides will have their duties defined (including performance guarantees - or better: promises) and if one side fail, the other can decide to terminate the contract within a defined timeframe.

I am very, very certain that if Mercedes or Ferrari would drop into the bottom half or third of the wcc table, Hamilton and Vettel, respectively, would be frank free to go to wherever they want. Just as their teams would be frank-free to hire another driver if any of both would suddenly perform way below their teammates, e.g. tundling around at the back of the grid while the car is capable of winning races.

No serious contract lawyer would "allow" them to make contracts without such clauses.

Alonso seemed fairly stuck at McLaren Honda, any such talk of him joining the likes of Mercedes were firmly met with Alonso has a biding contract with the team.


You mean "the likes of Mercedes" were trying to sign him but were prevented by the contract?

I mean that when Zack Brown was quizzed about Alonso going to Mercedes he said that Alonso had a contract with them, Alonso himself said he preferred to stay at McLaren, if you believe that?


Edit (correcting misunderstanding): Zack Brown surely had a strategic interest not to say "yes, he is a free agent".

Weren't you among those who always claimed that Alonso has no options because other top teams do not want him? If that is true, it cannot be clauses preventing the switch, can it? You can't have it both ways.

I said it for this year and next year with Alonso being out of contract to explain the lack of interest, before that I just considered him to be off the market.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23943
pokerman wrote:
Horner says that Verstappen had no get out clauses on his original Red Bull contract, he talks of the contract being absolute.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... until-when

and he says why:

"They are on junior driver contracts whereas Seb was able to renegotiate after his second world championship which had a bit of performance in it which gave him the trigger when Fernando made his move from Ferrari. These drivers don't have that trigger."

Pretty sure none of the drivers at the top teams now - with the possible exception of Vandoorne - would be considered to have junior contracts


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:11 am
Posts: 249
Location: Southampton, UK
pokerman wrote:
Horner says that Verstappen had no get out clauses on his original Red Bull contract, he talks of the contract being absolute.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... until-when


That news story was before he signed his new deal in October.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11089963/max-verstappen-extends-red-bull-contract-to-end-of-2020


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 8069
Don't forget guys, they are called 'negotiations' for a reason.

"I will not sign without a get out clause".

OK, we will give another 2.5 million PA

"Gimme that pen"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9398
Apparently Marko has said neither Ferrari nor Mercedes left an offer for Ricciardo.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 6964
Location: Mumbai, India
Covalent wrote:
Apparently Marko has said neither Ferrari nor Mercedes left an offer for Ricciardo.


It's not because Ricciardo ain't good enough but because Hamilton & Vettel might've blocked his move to their respective team.

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Horner says that Verstappen had no get out clauses on his original Red Bull contract, he talks of the contract being absolute.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... until-when

and he says why:

"They are on junior driver contracts whereas Seb was able to renegotiate after his second world championship which had a bit of performance in it which gave him the trigger when Fernando made his move from Ferrari. These drivers don't have that trigger."

Pretty sure none of the drivers at the top teams now - with the possible exception of Vandoorne - would be considered to have junior contracts

Just finding semantics around contracts that don't have get out clauses, try this one

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24184/ ... out-clause

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23943
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Horner says that Verstappen had no get out clauses on his original Red Bull contract, he talks of the contract being absolute.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... until-when

and he says why:

"They are on junior driver contracts whereas Seb was able to renegotiate after his second world championship which had a bit of performance in it which gave him the trigger when Fernando made his move from Ferrari. These drivers don't have that trigger."

Pretty sure none of the drivers at the top teams now - with the possible exception of Vandoorne - would be considered to have junior contracts

Just finding semantics around contracts that don't have get out clauses, try this one

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24184/ ... out-clause

How is it semantics?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Grizzly B wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Horner says that Verstappen had no get out clauses on his original Red Bull contract, he talks of the contract being absolute.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... until-when


That news story was before he signed his new deal in October.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11089963/max-verstappen-extends-red-bull-contract-to-end-of-2020

I know that's why I said original Red Bull contract.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Horner says that Verstappen had no get out clauses on his original Red Bull contract, he talks of the contract being absolute.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... until-when

and he says why:

"They are on junior driver contracts whereas Seb was able to renegotiate after his second world championship which had a bit of performance in it which gave him the trigger when Fernando made his move from Ferrari. These drivers don't have that trigger."

Pretty sure none of the drivers at the top teams now - with the possible exception of Vandoorne - would be considered to have junior contracts

Just finding semantics around contracts that don't have get out clauses, try this one

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24184/ ... out-clause

How is it semantics?

Because it was said all drivers have get out clauses, also in the case of Red Bull junior drivers they are sponsored in the junior categories then occur a debt, Verstappen was not sponsored so why has he to sign a contract with no get out clauses?

Let's take this further, Maldonado was paying Williams a large amount of money to drive for them, why wasn't he able to enact a get out clause when Williams provided him with one of the worse cars on the grid when such a thing is always done?

He left Williams but his sponsors had to honour their contract to Williams, I would say that Lamce Stroll presently finds himself in the same position.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 11411
pokerman wrote:
Verstappen was not sponsored so why has he to sign a contract with no get out clauses?


Because it was the only committment he had to give to get a certain F1 seat? Seems evident to be honest.

_________________
Go Vandoorne - Verstappen - Vettel!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:47 pm
Posts: 3107
This is stupid. Apart from the clauses that get reported and confirmed by someone in a position to do so - for example, Vettel's performance-related get-out clause at Red Bull was confirmed by Helmut Marko I think as far back as 2013 - the simple fact is none of us really know what clauses are in any contract. Anyone on here trying to claim they know otherwise is just talking nonsense, and making themselves look kind of silly in the process.

_________________
Pick 10 | 1st x3, 2nd x3, 3rd x7
2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23943
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Horner says that Verstappen had no get out clauses on his original Red Bull contract, he talks of the contract being absolute.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... until-when

and he says why:

"They are on junior driver contracts whereas Seb was able to renegotiate after his second world championship which had a bit of performance in it which gave him the trigger when Fernando made his move from Ferrari. These drivers don't have that trigger."

Pretty sure none of the drivers at the top teams now - with the possible exception of Vandoorne - would be considered to have junior contracts

Just finding semantics around contracts that don't have get out clauses, try this one

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24184/ ... out-clause

How is it semantics?

Because it was said all drivers have get out clauses, also in the case of Red Bull junior drivers they are sponsored in the junior categories then occur a debt, Verstappen was not sponsored so why has he to sign a contract with no get out clauses?

Let's take this further, Maldonado was paying Williams a large amount of money to drive for them, why wasn't he able to enact a get out clause when Williams provided him with one of the worse cars on the grid when such a thing is always done?
He left Williams but his sponsors had to honour their contract to Williams, I would say that Lamce Stroll presently finds himself in the same position.

You've got this backwards. The original claim was yours that Hamilton would NOT have any get out clauses and that's what started this conversation. When challenged, you then provided a link to show Verstappen didn't have it, but it was pointed out that in the very same link Horner explained that he didn't because he was on a junior contract, while Vettel did because of his previous success. So your link didn't actually support your argument, especially since it confirmed that such get out clauses exist.

What the majority have said is that you cannot possibly know whether or not Hamilton's next contract would contain get out clauses. And that still stands. We know for a fact they exist, which your link proves, but we don't know which drivers have them.

The Maldonado hypothesis is irrelevant with regard to whether Hamilton will have one in his contract.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
where do you come up with this cr@p, seriously? How can you possibly make such an outlandish claim? Who here has ever seen a contract from a current driver that would enable you to predict its contents with such accuracy? I honestly don't get how you're not embarrassed at spouting this stuff


Sorry Poker, I'm with Zoue on this one. Unless you're Hamilton's agent (Some cruel people might say that would explain a few things ;) ) then you have absolutely no idea. I find it very unlikely Hamilton or anybody else would sign a contract with no get out clause at all. What if he decided to retire?

Whenever has a contract prevented a driver from retiring (Rosberg), they are not prison sentences after all?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
and he says why:

"They are on junior driver contracts whereas Seb was able to renegotiate after his second world championship which had a bit of performance in it which gave him the trigger when Fernando made his move from Ferrari. These drivers don't have that trigger."

Pretty sure none of the drivers at the top teams now - with the possible exception of Vandoorne - would be considered to have junior contracts

Just finding semantics around contracts that don't have get out clauses, try this one

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24184/ ... out-clause

How is it semantics?

Because it was said all drivers have get out clauses, also in the case of Red Bull junior drivers they are sponsored in the junior categories then occur a debt, Verstappen was not sponsored so why has he to sign a contract with no get out clauses?

Let's take this further, Maldonado was paying Williams a large amount of money to drive for them, why wasn't he able to enact a get out clause when Williams provided him with one of the worse cars on the grid when such a thing is always done?
He left Williams but his sponsors had to honour their contract to Williams, I would say that Lamce Stroll presently finds himself in the same position.

You've got this backwards. The original claim was yours that Hamilton would NOT have any get out clauses and that's what started this conversation. When challenged, you then provided a link to show Verstappen didn't have it, but it was pointed out that in the very same link Horner explained that he didn't because he was on a junior contract, while Vettel did because of his previous success. So your link didn't actually support your argument, especially since it confirmed that such get out clauses exist.

What the majority have said is that you cannot possibly know whether or not Hamilton's next contract would contain get out clauses. And that still stands. We know for a fact they exist, which your link proves, but we don't know which drivers have them.

The Maldonado hypothesis is irrelevant with regard to whether Hamilton will have one in his contract.

No I was specifically replying to the notion that all contracts have get out clauses.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
With Hamilton's last contract he was tied into the contract for the first 2 years with a get out clause for the third year

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motor ... cedes.html

Teams like a certain amount of continuity if Hamilton signs a 2 year contract then would Mercedes want Hamilton the option of leaving after the first year bearing in mind other top drivers would be tied up as well, also those desirable seats wouldn't be available for Hamilton either?

Many of my replies have been around this notion that get out clauses are standard fair when I don't think that's the case, Alonso after all got caught out by Vettel's get out clause.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23943
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Just finding semantics around contracts that don't have get out clauses, try this one

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24184/ ... out-clause

How is it semantics?

Because it was said all drivers have get out clauses, also in the case of Red Bull junior drivers they are sponsored in the junior categories then occur a debt, Verstappen was not sponsored so why has he to sign a contract with no get out clauses?

Let's take this further, Maldonado was paying Williams a large amount of money to drive for them, why wasn't he able to enact a get out clause when Williams provided him with one of the worse cars on the grid when such a thing is always done?
He left Williams but his sponsors had to honour their contract to Williams, I would say that Lamce Stroll presently finds himself in the same position.

You've got this backwards. The original claim was yours that Hamilton would NOT have any get out clauses and that's what started this conversation. When challenged, you then provided a link to show Verstappen didn't have it, but it was pointed out that in the very same link Horner explained that he didn't because he was on a junior contract, while Vettel did because of his previous success. So your link didn't actually support your argument, especially since it confirmed that such get out clauses exist.

What the majority have said is that you cannot possibly know whether or not Hamilton's next contract would contain get out clauses. And that still stands. We know for a fact they exist, which your link proves, but we don't know which drivers have them.

The Maldonado hypothesis is irrelevant with regard to whether Hamilton will have one in his contract.

No I was specifically replying to the notion that all contracts have get out clauses.

But they were only in reply to you saying there definitely wouldn't be. Point is that the existence of get out clauses is proven. Whether Hamilton has them or not is just speculation and you can't make such a claim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23943
pokerman wrote:
With Hamilton's last contract he was tied into the contract for the first 2 years with a get out clause for the third year

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motor ... cedes.html

Teams like a certain amount of continuity if Hamilton signs a 2 year contract then would Mercedes want Hamilton the option of leaving after the first year bearing in mind other top drivers would be tied up as well, also those desirable seats wouldn't be available for Hamilton either?

Many of my replies have been around this notion that get out clauses are standard fair when I don't think that's the case, Alonso after all got caught out by Vettel's get out clause.

If you acknowledge his last contract contained get out clauses, then why are you so certain his next one won't? :?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
How is it semantics?

Because it was said all drivers have get out clauses, also in the case of Red Bull junior drivers they are sponsored in the junior categories then occur a debt, Verstappen was not sponsored so why has he to sign a contract with no get out clauses?

Let's take this further, Maldonado was paying Williams a large amount of money to drive for them, why wasn't he able to enact a get out clause when Williams provided him with one of the worse cars on the grid when such a thing is always done?
He left Williams but his sponsors had to honour their contract to Williams, I would say that Lamce Stroll presently finds himself in the same position.

You've got this backwards. The original claim was yours that Hamilton would NOT have any get out clauses and that's what started this conversation. When challenged, you then provided a link to show Verstappen didn't have it, but it was pointed out that in the very same link Horner explained that he didn't because he was on a junior contract, while Vettel did because of his previous success. So your link didn't actually support your argument, especially since it confirmed that such get out clauses exist.

What the majority have said is that you cannot possibly know whether or not Hamilton's next contract would contain get out clauses. And that still stands. We know for a fact they exist, which your link proves, but we don't know which drivers have them.

The Maldonado hypothesis is irrelevant with regard to whether Hamilton will have one in his contract.

No I was specifically replying to the notion that all contracts have get out clauses.

But they were only in reply to you saying there definitely wouldn't be. Point is that the existence of get out clauses is proven. Whether Hamilton has them or not is just speculation and you can't make such a claim

Why would I say they are unproven?

I've had several replies to what I said in particular it was said that get out clauses always apply to which I questioned.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
With Hamilton's last contract he was tied into the contract for the first 2 years with a get out clause for the third year

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motor ... cedes.html

Teams like a certain amount of continuity if Hamilton signs a 2 year contract then would Mercedes want Hamilton the option of leaving after the first year bearing in mind other top drivers would be tied up as well, also those desirable seats wouldn't be available for Hamilton either?

Many of my replies have been around this notion that get out clauses are standard fair when I don't think that's the case, Alonso after all got caught out by Vettel's get out clause.

If you acknowledge his last contract contained get out clauses, then why are you so certain his next one won't? :?

Do you think that Mercedes will countenance what would basically just be a 1 year contract for Hamilton?

His last contract had a get out clause for the final year not for the first 2 years, that would be a minimum time line for Mercedes, that just seems common sense to me.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 6964
Location: Mumbai, India
Toro Rosso is eyeing Dan Ticktum to replace Hartley in 2019:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ticktum-hartley-replacement-toro-rosso-1056560/

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23943
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Because it was said all drivers have get out clauses, also in the case of Red Bull junior drivers they are sponsored in the junior categories then occur a debt, Verstappen was not sponsored so why has he to sign a contract with no get out clauses?

Let's take this further, Maldonado was paying Williams a large amount of money to drive for them, why wasn't he able to enact a get out clause when Williams provided him with one of the worse cars on the grid when such a thing is always done?
He left Williams but his sponsors had to honour their contract to Williams, I would say that Lamce Stroll presently finds himself in the same position.

You've got this backwards. The original claim was yours that Hamilton would NOT have any get out clauses and that's what started this conversation. When challenged, you then provided a link to show Verstappen didn't have it, but it was pointed out that in the very same link Horner explained that he didn't because he was on a junior contract, while Vettel did because of his previous success. So your link didn't actually support your argument, especially since it confirmed that such get out clauses exist.

What the majority have said is that you cannot possibly know whether or not Hamilton's next contract would contain get out clauses. And that still stands. We know for a fact they exist, which your link proves, but we don't know which drivers have them.

The Maldonado hypothesis is irrelevant with regard to whether Hamilton will have one in his contract.

No I was specifically replying to the notion that all contracts have get out clauses.

But they were only in reply to you saying there definitely wouldn't be. Point is that the existence of get out clauses is proven. Whether Hamilton has them or not is just speculation and you can't make such a claim

Why would I say they are unproven?

I've had several replies to what I said in particular it was said that get out clauses always apply to which I questioned.

the replies were generated by you saying the clauses would not be there. you need to look at the origin of the discussion, not subsequent theories. And you have no way of knowing


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23943
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
With Hamilton's last contract he was tied into the contract for the first 2 years with a get out clause for the third year

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motor ... cedes.html

Teams like a certain amount of continuity if Hamilton signs a 2 year contract then would Mercedes want Hamilton the option of leaving after the first year bearing in mind other top drivers would be tied up as well, also those desirable seats wouldn't be available for Hamilton either?

Many of my replies have been around this notion that get out clauses are standard fair when I don't think that's the case, Alonso after all got caught out by Vettel's get out clause.

If you acknowledge his last contract contained get out clauses, then why are you so certain his next one won't? :?

Do you think that Mercedes will countenance what would basically just be a 1 year contract for Hamilton?

His last contract had a get out clause for the final year not for the first 2 years, that would be a minimum time line for Mercedes, that just seems common sense to me.

I think Mercedes don't have an awful lot of choice in the matter. It's no secret they want Hamilton and they don't have that many proven alternative options of his caliber. So if he wants get out clauses, I doubt that Mercedes would be able to do much to stop it.

The last time he signed Mercedes had no competition and the rules made it almost impossible for anybody else to catch up, so two years without an opt out seemed a fairly safe bet. Those circumstances have changed. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but you can't just point to previous contracts without any kind of context and just effectively lop of the last year while keeping everything else the same. Your guess is as good as anybody's, but stating it like you did is just asking for people to take issue with it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 28750
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
With Hamilton's last contract he was tied into the contract for the first 2 years with a get out clause for the third year

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motor ... cedes.html

Teams like a certain amount of continuity if Hamilton signs a 2 year contract then would Mercedes want Hamilton the option of leaving after the first year bearing in mind other top drivers would be tied up as well, also those desirable seats wouldn't be available for Hamilton either?

Many of my replies have been around this notion that get out clauses are standard fair when I don't think that's the case, Alonso after all got caught out by Vettel's get out clause.

If you acknowledge his last contract contained get out clauses, then why are you so certain his next one won't? :?

Do you think that Mercedes will countenance what would basically just be a 1 year contract for Hamilton?

His last contract had a get out clause for the final year not for the first 2 years, that would be a minimum time line for Mercedes, that just seems common sense to me.

I think Mercedes don't have an awful lot of choice in the matter. It's no secret they want Hamilton and they don't have that many proven alternative options of his caliber. So if he wants get out clauses, I doubt that Mercedes would be able to do much to stop it.

The last time he signed Mercedes had no competition and the rules made it almost impossible for anybody else to catch up, so two years without an opt out seemed a fairly safe bet. Those circumstances have changed. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but you can't just point to previous contracts without any kind of context and just effectively lop of the last year while keeping everything else the same. Your guess is as good as anybody's, but stating it like you did is just asking for people to take issue with it

Mercedes have no options?

Why do you think Ricciardo has been waiting in the wings for Hamilton to sign a new contract?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], JamWalsh and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group