Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ocon said himself his career was over after his F3 championship win until Wolff and Merc stepped in so without young driver programmes Ocon wouldn't have made GP3 let alone F1.
I agree it's not an ideal situation but without them the only drivers making F1 right now would be the likes of Stroll and Markelov.
Yeah criticising YDP's is ridiculous, this is how drivers without money find themselves in F1 which includes the likes of the soon to be 5 time WDC whether that be Hamilton or Vettel.
No I don't believe it is ridiculous. You can't say Vettel or Hamilton would not have made it to F1 with the help of a YDP. I don't believe the talent in F1 was any poorer prior to the advent of YDP's.
I see a YDP only as a way for teams to corral talent then sieve them out over time until they're left with the gold & the others can fight for the dross. Maybe i'm getting cynical as I get older but I don't believe for 1 minute its simply about fostering young talent. It's about me signing the best young drivers up to heavily lopsided contracts so you can't and once I sign them then i'll decide if I need them or not.
I wonder how the teams would react if Liberty or the FIA banned YDP's and instead offered to fund the careers of young talent themselves, free from the shackles of contractual obligations to teams, as they move through the lower formulae and then stop the funding either when the driver signs their first F1 contract, fails to meet KPI's or looks unlikely to progress any further?
I think that's a better alternative than the teams controlling the futures of the F1 stars of tomorrow.
No I can't say that either Hamilton or Vettel would not have made it into F1 without YDP's, Hamilton joined when he was 13, Vettel I believe was even younger?
More worrying is that you can't say that they would, good luck to the council estate kid finding the millions of pounds needed to fund his career, Michael Schumacher, son of a brick layer, had his GP debut funded by Mercedes who ran him in sportcars.
I don't know what the council estates in your area are like poker but in my area most of the kids are flat out getting a half decent push bike let alone the thousands and thousand of dollars it takes to buy & maintain a competitive go kart to allow them to show their wares to the teams talent scouts.
Yeah Schumacher had a leg up from Mercedes. Vettel & Hamilton were part of YDP's, but the likes of Alonso, Raikonnen, Hakkinen, Villeneuve, Hill, Button & Rosberg all managed to win WDC's without the benefit of YDP's. They did it through hard work, raising capital, results, a good agent & a bit of luck, & yeah, maybe in the case of Villeneuve, Hill & Rosberg, their name helped but it certainly didn't win them a WDC. These are all drivers I would not class as average and as far as I know, Alonso, Hakkinen, Raikonnen & Button came from quite modest backgrounds.
In my 30 odd yrs of watching F1 i've never sat back after watching the above drivers or even Prost, Senna, Mansell, Piquet, Lauda, Keke Rosberg, Berger & Albereto for that matter and thought that'd it'd be a truly great sport if only they had decent drivers. The sport survived nicely prior to YDP's. Top young talent has, in almost all instances, found a way to get into F1 without the help of YDP's.
YDP's are just a way for teams to get young talent out of the reach of other teams & I cringe when teams roll out their holier than thou comments about fostering young talent. This Ocon situation only serves to highlight the fact the YDP's are just about me getting the best young driver signed up before you. This is just an example of where it's backfired. If it was all about getting the best drivers in F1, he'd be there in the place of any one of at least half a dozen drivers who are guaranteed a seat next year.
I guess that takes the dedication of a Father prepared to work 4 jobs to get Hamilton into karting and racing at the age of 8, British Champion aged 9 at which point they approached McLaren basically for help which eventually came, and thus he was giving a financial road map to F1 provided he delivered the results.
Any financial avenue to assist drivers with no money should be applauded not shut down, many a talented driver ran short of funds then his career ended, such a fate nearly befell Esteban Ocon who was funded by Gravity Sport Management run by Eric Boullier, they had ties with Genii Capital who owned the Lotus F1 team, so he was indirectly funded by Lotus.
When Renault bought the Lotus F1 team at the end of 2014, Gravity Sport Management was shut down and so was Ocon's funding. During that season Wolff had tried to sign F3 driver Verstappen but was gazumped by Red Bull, he then had a talk with Ocon who was leading the series but Ocon was basically being sponsored by the Lotus F1 team which had their own plans for Ocon, after winning F3 he then would be placed into GP2, so Wolff just left it with Ocon that if he ever needed any help he could contact him.
So when Ocon's funding dried up despite him being F3 Champion he contacted Wolff asking for help and Wolff helped him by sponsoring him into GP3 with the ART team, how was this an example of a F1 team getting their hands on a young driver just to prevent other F1 teams from getting him?
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I wonder how far the Strolls think their money can get them...
I knew I'd miss someone