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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:45 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I am still so unsure about all this news about Leclerc going to Ferrari. If it seems very likely, why is there hardly even any indication this might be happening on the more well known F1 sites? There is virtually nothing elsewhere. I can't trust this information. So I still think it could well be the case that Kimi stays. I will start changing my mind when i see more reliable evidence.

Something someone I know pointed out was Kimi's speech with Massa on the podium. He pointed out all the italian fans there. And said "Sorry but not to win (when talking about his own drive), but next time" Something about that "but next time" to me sounded like he knew he already had a seat next year. He seemed more chatty too. So who I was talking to despite all these speculations about Leclerc still feels Kimi will likely drive next year. But we will see.


Kimi going super defensive against Vettel shows me he's leaving. He's always been happy to drive for the team, now he;'s driving for himself. I think he's gone.

Yeah he fought tooth and nail against Vettel through the first two chicanes.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:42 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I am still so unsure about all this news about Leclerc going to Ferrari. If it seems very likely, why is there hardly even any indication this might be happening on the more well known F1 sites? There is virtually nothing elsewhere. I can't trust this information. So I still think it could well be the case that Kimi stays. I will start changing my mind when i see more reliable evidence.

Something someone I know pointed out was Kimi's speech with Massa on the podium. He pointed out all the italian fans there. And said "Sorry but not to win (when talking about his own drive), but next time" Something about that "but next time" to me sounded like he knew he already had a seat next year. He seemed more chatty too. So who I was talking to despite all these speculations about Leclerc still feels Kimi will likely drive next year. But we will see.


Kimi going super defensive against Vettel shows me he's leaving. He's always been happy to drive for the team, now he;'s driving for himself. I think he's gone.


Maybe they'll take us all by surprise and get rid of Kimi but not hire Leclerc :D


Maybe that's where Perez has signed his contract?


That's what I'm wondering ever since Checo said he's signed a contract. He said the team will announce it when & where it finds the right time. Is this all leading to Force India, Haas or Ferrari even?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:07 am 
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dompclarke wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I am still so unsure about all this news about Leclerc going to Ferrari. If it seems very likely, why is there hardly even any indication this might be happening on the more well known F1 sites? There is virtually nothing elsewhere. I can't trust this information. So I still think it could well be the case that Kimi stays. I will start changing my mind when i see more reliable evidence.

Something someone I know pointed out was Kimi's speech with Massa on the podium. He pointed out all the italian fans there. And said "Sorry but not to win (when talking about his own drive), but next time" Something about that "but next time" to me sounded like he knew he already had a seat next year. He seemed more chatty too. So who I was talking to despite all these speculations about Leclerc still feels Kimi will likely drive next year. But we will see.


Kimi going super defensive against Vettel shows me he's leaving. He's always been happy to drive for the team, now he;'s driving for himself. I think he's gone.


Maybe they'll take us all by surprise and get rid of Kimi but not hire Leclerc :D

Or ditch Vettel and have Kimi/LeClerc...


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:32 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Perez, Bottas, Ocon, they're all very similar really and none a match for Hamilton, so you're replacing Bottas because you owe it to the junior driver rather than it being a step up in performance, over 1 lap I would actually favour Bottas.


Perez looked better than Bottas in 2016, not similar, and Ocon is 11-3 up in Q and despite it being much closer in the races, much like Max vs Dan, Ocon doesn't get the same pass that Max seems to get and instead it's called close or he hasn't separated himself from Perez yet etc.

Being in the midfield your quali win can be reversed at T1 if the traffic doesn't fall your way, there's more traffic influence around the stops as well because you're not getting pitted into clear air so there are more influences in turning around a quali win than there is on the front rows so a quali advantage of 11-3 would be reflected in the races more in a better car I believe. Not to down play Sergio on a Sunday, I agree with sandman in that I think he'd be the perfect no.2 for Merc/Ferrari in that respect.

So I think it's harsh to say Ocon hasn't done enough, Hulk and Bottas were pretty similar in 2016 and Ocon is doing better than him too. I think if the Bottas contract talks were still going on he'd be in the mix, I think they pulled the trigger too early and his form since hasn't been very good again, much like last year post Monaco when he fell off.

It would be a travesty if Ocon wasn't on the grid but I don't feel sorry for Mercedes, it's Mercedes fault to be fair, they had a seat available but took it off the market before Ocon even had the chance to fully impress this year.

The qualifying gap between Verstappen and Ricciardo is 0.22s, the gap between Ocon and Perez is 0.03s, Hulk and Perez 0.04s, Button and Perez 0.06s, and then through numerous cross references Bottas and Button 0.04s.

So it's all much of a muchness and they all would make good #2 drivers and no Ocon is not out performing Perez to the same level as Verstappen is out performing Ricciardo, Ocon and Perez are two evenly matched drivers and because of that basically Mercedes know presently that he wouldn't be a upgrade on Bottas.

Which brings me back to what I heard that they were looking for Ocon to beat Perez, if he did that I believe he would have been nailed on for the Mercedes drive but at the earliest 2020 because obviously they needed to see how the season panned out and in respect to Bottas that would have been unfair on him to wait that long, at the point they re-signed Bottas no one could say that he was performing poorly.

It's a difficult position for Mercedes how do you drop a driver that doesn't deserve to be dropped whilst you have a junior driver Ocon who many would rate in the top 10 who maybe is without a seat?

Also they have Russell who's going to be ready for F1 next season, it's going to take serious money to have both of them in F1, money I'm not sure Mercedes want to spend and do they need both, how are they both going to get into the Mercedes team anytime soon?

Red Bull apparently are keen on putting one of the Mercedes drivers in at STR although they don't say which one, but that would take that driver to be released from his Mercedes contract, if Mercedes can't find that driver a F1 seat then maybe that driver should be released?


Much of a muchness using your figures though,right? We had a season to watch Bottas,Perez and Hulk fight in comparable cars and I don't think too many felt Bottas came out on top tbh. Fair enough about it being closer between Ocon and Perez than Max-Dan but the point still stands that there are more variables like traffic to get in the way of a team mate battle than there is on the front rows so being 11-3 up is still impressive, you'd have to think he'd convert more with less obstacles to get in his way.

I think Mercedes could've waited as long as Ferrari have tbh, I don't see how that's unfair on Bottas. I think Ocon will beat Perez but has shown enough already for me considering his age. Perez and Hulk have been the benchmarks for a while and he just looks quicker already. They could've seen Bottas take a bit of a dip again like last year which also might have gone in Ocon's favour but I agree at the time he signed he was driving well so there was no need to be on the lookout for a change.

It is a difficult position for Mercedes but I still have little sympathy. If they're not any better than Bottas then I don't think it's the end of the world to cut them and it can be someone else's problem, if one is better then put him in the team.

I don't understand why Perez scoring 16 points more than Bottas underpins him as being better than Bottas, Perez's season was underpinned by having 2 podiums although Bottas also had 1 podium, in terms of consistency however in the head to head Bottas beat Perez 11-8, also lets not forget that Bottas out scored the Hulk.

Ocon being better than Perez I just don't see it, I see two well matched drivers, also regarding qualifying I guess I have my own methods in compiling the data, I have it 9-4 to Ocon with 4 of those for Ocon being less than a tenth of a second, they are the second closest pairing on the grid.

I don't believe what Mercedes did with signing Bottas was a problem for Ocon at the time, it took two things to happen in order to make it a problem, first Ricciardo took Ocon's seat at Renault and then the Strolls bought Force India for Lance and Ocon's back up seat is now in jeopardy.

Going forward I would agree Mercedes need to make a decision for 2020, Bottas or Ocon, if not Ocon then they need to cut him free because the main obstacle for Ocon finding seats is that teams don't want to sign him on loan from Mercedes.


So he should beat Hulk and be 11-8 up against Perez in a better car more often than not (Although it was close several times). McLaren were back there so I followed it closely, both Hulk and Perez outdrove Bottas in 2016 for my money, the amount of points is actually quite big when you're only generally operating for positions 7-10.

They're (Ocon and Perez) pretty close no question but if they tend to fall one way more often than not then they're better and that's going to Ocon so far. I've mentioned some of the reasons it's harder to convert qualifying advantages in the midfield pack so it being a lot closer on a Sunday is understandable.

I just think they moved too early, they didn't really give Ocon enough time to impress against Perez this year before extending Bottas so I have little sympathy for them but plenty for Ocon.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:45 am 
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It's quite odd that no formal announcement has been made yet regarding Kimi/Leclerc. By all accounts Leclerc was visiting Maranello yesterday and an announcement was expected to be made, but so far nothing. Makes me wonder if everything is so cut and dried and whether there's some lobbying going on behind the scenes.

Of course, I fully expect an announcement to be made within seconds of me posting this :]


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:47 am 
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a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:54 am 
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Another door has apparently closed for Ocon. Horner has said Red Bull wouldn't consider Ocon for Toro Rosso due to he being a Mercedes junior driver.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/138558/red-bull-wouldnt-consider-ocon--horner

Horner also said Mercedes should've signed Ocon when they could have!

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:03 am 
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I appreciate it's not an ideal situation for Mercedes, given their investment in him to this point, but if the best seat they can potentially get him is one at Williams then it's clear that they need to do right by Ocon's career and end their association with him. I mean if he's not a Mercedes junior driver then surely he instantly becomes the #1 contender to take Grosjean's seat at Haas, and failing that it's obvious that Red Bull would put him in at Toro Rosso in a heartbeat. Even replacing Ericsson at Sauber would be a possibility if Sauber are serious about moving up the grid.

Not only that but if George Russell does win the F2 title, Ocon remaining a Mercedes junior driver hurts Russell as well as the teams that won't take Ocon are obviously not going to take Russell. That leaves just one potential seat at Williams for two Mercedes-backed drivers, and it means Russell probably ends up having to do a year in Japan. Whereas if Ocon is able to take a seat elsewhere then it might allow Mercedes to get Russell on the grid in 2019.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:30 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
I appreciate it's not an ideal situation for Mercedes, given their investment in him to this point, but if the best seat they can potentially get him is one at Williams then it's clear that they need to do right by Ocon's career and end their association with him. I mean if he's not a Mercedes junior driver then surely he instantly becomes the #1 contender to take Grosjean's seat at Haas, and failing that it's obvious that Red Bull would put him in at Toro Rosso in a heartbeat. Even replacing Ericsson at Sauber would be a possibility if Sauber are serious about moving up the grid.

Not only that but if George Russell does win the F2 title, Ocon remaining a Mercedes junior driver hurts Russell as well as the teams that won't take Ocon are obviously not going to take Russell. That leaves just one potential seat at Williams for two Mercedes-backed drivers, and it means Russell probably ends up having to do a year in Japan. Whereas if Ocon is able to take a seat elsewhere then it might allow Mercedes to get Russell on the grid in 2019.


Ocon is in F1 because of Mercedes. He'd have been out of a drive after his F3 championship without Toto. I think they deserve to get some good out of it. If they can offer him a Williams drive next season then he should give them that grace.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:42 am 
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Zoue wrote:
a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54


I've said many times I dislike these YDP's and this is one reason why.

Many attempt to justify that YDP's put the emphasis on driver talent rather than the drivers wallet yet the sports on the verge of losing on of it's brightest talents exactly because of YDP's.

Merc don't look like they'll release Ocon to free him up to drive for a competitor and competitors won't hire him because he's part of the Merc stable so it looks like it'll be chow for now Estaban.

Meanwhile we have drivers like Stroll, Sirotkin & Ericsonn on the grid for no other reason than they come with a fat wallet, Brendan Hartley in TR and possibly Danii Kvyat coming back to that team because RB's YDP is a little light ATM and they won't go with anyone outside that program.

The sport has missed out on Robin Frijn's and Robert Wickens who many believe fully deserved a seat in F1 and now there's a possibility that Ocon might lose his seat, at least for a couple of seasons, due to his affiliation with Merc.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:51 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54


I've said many times I dislike these YDP's and this is one reason why.

Many attempt to justify that YDP's put the emphasis on driver talent rather than the drivers wallet yet the sports on the verge of losing on of it's brightest talents exactly because of YDP's.

Merc don't look like they'll release Ocon to free him up to drive for a competitor and competitors won't hire him because he's part of the Merc stable so it looks like it'll be chow for now Estaban.

Meanwhile we have drivers like Stroll, Sirotkin & Ericsonn on the grid for no other reason than they come with a fat wallet, Brendan Hartley in TR and possibly Danii Kvyat coming back to that team because RB's YDP is a little light ATM and they won't go with anyone outside that program.

The sport has missed out on Robin Frijn's and Robert Wickens who many believe fully deserved a seat in F1 and now there's a possibility that Ocon might lose his seat, at least for a couple of seasons, due to his affiliation with Merc.


Ocon said himself his career was over after his F3 championship win until Wolff and Merc stepped in so without young driver programmes Ocon wouldn't have made GP3 let alone F1.

I agree it's not an ideal situation but without them the only drivers making F1 right now would be the likes of Stroll and Markelov.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:05 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54


I've said many times I dislike these YDP's and this is one reason why.

Many attempt to justify that YDP's put the emphasis on driver talent rather than the drivers wallet yet the sports on the verge of losing on of it's brightest talents exactly because of YDP's.

Merc don't look like they'll release Ocon to free him up to drive for a competitor and competitors won't hire him because he's part of the Merc stable so it looks like it'll be chow for now Estaban.

Meanwhile we have drivers like Stroll, Sirotkin & Ericsonn on the grid for no other reason than they come with a fat wallet, Brendan Hartley in TR and possibly Danii Kvyat coming back to that team because RB's YDP is a little light ATM and they won't go with anyone outside that program.

The sport has missed out on Robin Frijn's and Robert Wickens who many believe fully deserved a seat in F1 and now there's a possibility that Ocon might lose his seat, at least for a couple of seasons, due to his affiliation with Merc.


Ocon said himself his career was over after his F3 championship win until Wolff and Merc stepped in so without young driver programmes Ocon wouldn't have made GP3 let alone F1.

I agree it's not an ideal situation but without them the only drivers making F1 right now would be the likes of Stroll and Markelov.


And if they don't release mikey him they risk ending it.

As for your 2nd point, if this is indeed the case then it's just a symptom of the biggest issue the sport faces. That being manufacturer influence over the direction of the sport.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:11 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54


I've said many times I dislike these YDP's and this is one reason why.

Many attempt to justify that YDP's put the emphasis on driver talent rather than the drivers wallet yet the sports on the verge of losing on of it's brightest talents exactly because of YDP's.

Merc don't look like they'll release Ocon to free him up to drive for a competitor and competitors won't hire him because he's part of the Merc stable so it looks like it'll be chow for now Estaban.

Meanwhile we have drivers like Stroll, Sirotkin & Ericsonn on the grid for no other reason than they come with a fat wallet, Brendan Hartley in TR and possibly Danii Kvyat coming back to that team because RB's YDP is a little light ATM and they won't go with anyone outside that program.

The sport has missed out on Robin Frijn's and Robert Wickens who many believe fully deserved a seat in F1 and now there's a possibility that Ocon might lose his seat, at least for a couple of seasons, due to his affiliation with Merc.


Ocon said himself his career was over after his F3 championship win until Wolff and Merc stepped in so without young driver programmes Ocon wouldn't have made GP3 let alone F1.

I agree it's not an ideal situation but without them the only drivers making F1 right now would be the likes of Stroll and Markelov.


And if they don't release mikey him they risk ending it.

As for your 2nd point, if this is indeed the case then it's just a symptom of the biggest issue the sport faces. That being manufacturer influence over the direction of the sport.


It's true Ocon said it himself. He was going back to France to train as a car mechanic until Merc and Wolff threw him a life line and stumped up some cash for a GP3 season for him.

I agree YDP are not an ideal way to go about things not least because it means that those unaffiliated at 18 years old have no chance of ever getting a top drive. I was just pointing out in Ocon's case, even if he has to sit out a year, they've done him a lot more good than harm.

What is really worrying is that losing Ocon, Alonso and Kimi in one go takes out almost a third of the best 10 drivers. I really hope he lands somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:20 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I really hope he lands somewhere.


Yep i'm with you there.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:47 am 
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How ironic if Ocon's not a part of the 2019 grid but drivers like Sirotkin, Stroll, Hartley, Ericsson etc. will be there.He had no financial backing & was from a humble background which is why Mercedes gave him the support to showcase his talent.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:52 am 
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Had Mercedes not hurried itself in resigning Bottas so early this season for 2019, I think Ocon's future would've been in safe hands & maybe he would've gotten promoted to Mercedes!

It all depends who had bigger priority - Bottas who was managed by Wolff or Ocon who was managed by Mercedes?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:57 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Had Mercedes not hurried itself in resigning Bottas so early this season for 2019, I think Ocon's future would've been in safe hands & maybe he would've gotten promoted to Mercedes!

It all depends who had bigger priority - Bottas who was managed by Wolff or Ocon who was managed by Mercedes?


But why did they re-sign Bottas?

Don't forget what one of Hamilton's proviso's were to re-signing himself.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:01 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Had Mercedes not hurried itself in resigning Bottas so early this season for 2019, I think Ocon's future would've been in safe hands & maybe he would've gotten promoted to Mercedes!

It all depends who had bigger priority - Bottas who was managed by Wolff or Ocon who was managed by Mercedes?


But why did they re-sign Bottas?

Don't forget what one of Hamilton's proviso's were to re-signing himself.


As per how much I know Ocon, he's quite a team guy & obedient as well. Had he joined Mercedes with certain rules or clauses regarding performance or team orders, I'm sure he would've complied. Afterall, he's so obliged to Mercedes' support through these years.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:19 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Had Mercedes not hurried itself in resigning Bottas so early this season for 2019, I think Ocon's future would've been in safe hands & maybe he would've gotten promoted to Mercedes!

It all depends who had bigger priority - Bottas who was managed by Wolff or Ocon who was managed by Mercedes?


But why did they re-sign Bottas?

Don't forget what one of Hamilton's proviso's were to re-signing himself.


As per how much I know Ocon, he's quite a team guy & obedient as well. Had he joined Mercedes with certain rules or clauses regarding performance or team orders, I'm sure he would've complied. Afterall, he's so obliged to Mercedes' support through these years.


It doesn't matter what type of team mate Ocon would've been. Hamilton wanted a guarantee Bottas would be across the garage before he'd sign.

Game over for Ocon

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:30 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Had Mercedes not hurried itself in resigning Bottas so early this season for 2019, I think Ocon's future would've been in safe hands & maybe he would've gotten promoted to Mercedes!

It all depends who had bigger priority - Bottas who was managed by Wolff or Ocon who was managed by Mercedes?


But why did they re-sign Bottas?

Don't forget what one of Hamilton's proviso's were to re-signing himself.


As per how much I know Ocon, he's quite a team guy & obedient as well. Had he joined Mercedes with certain rules or clauses regarding performance or team orders, I'm sure he would've complied. Afterall, he's so obliged to Mercedes' support through these years.


It doesn't matter what type of team mate Ocon would've been. Hamilton wanted a guarantee Bottas would be across the garage before he'd sign.

Game over for Ocon

That was just a rumour, surely? I don't see it, myself. Hamilton may well have expressed a preference but I very much doubt he would have made it conditional before he signed


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:33 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Had Mercedes not hurried itself in resigning Bottas so early this season for 2019, I think Ocon's future would've been in safe hands & maybe he would've gotten promoted to Mercedes!

It all depends who had bigger priority - Bottas who was managed by Wolff or Ocon who was managed by Mercedes?


But why did they re-sign Bottas?

Don't forget what one of Hamilton's proviso's were to re-signing himself.


As per how much I know Ocon, he's quite a team guy & obedient as well. Had he joined Mercedes with certain rules or clauses regarding performance or team orders, I'm sure he would've complied. Afterall, he's so obliged to Mercedes' support through these years.


It doesn't matter what type of team mate Ocon would've been. Hamilton wanted a guarantee Bottas would be across the garage before he'd sign.

Game over for Ocon

That was just a rumour, surely? I don't see it, myself. Hamilton may well have expressed a preference but I very much doubt he would have made it conditional before he signed


I've no idea but it seems unlikely to me that Hamilton would be overly concerned by having Ocon as a team mate.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:41 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I am still so unsure about all this news about Leclerc going to Ferrari. If it seems very likely, why is there hardly even any indication this might be happening on the more well known F1 sites? There is virtually nothing elsewhere. I can't trust this information. So I still think it could well be the case that Kimi stays. I will start changing my mind when i see more reliable evidence.

Something someone I know pointed out was Kimi's speech with Massa on the podium. He pointed out all the italian fans there. And said "Sorry but not to win (when talking about his own drive), but next time" Something about that "but next time" to me sounded like he knew he already had a seat next year. He seemed more chatty too. So who I was talking to despite all these speculations about Leclerc still feels Kimi will likely drive next year. But we will see.


Kimi going super defensive against Vettel shows me he's leaving. He's always been happy to drive for the team, now he;'s driving for himself. I think he's gone.


Maybe they'll take us all by surprise and get rid of Kimi but not hire Leclerc :D


Maybe that's where Perez has signed his contract?


That's what I'm wondering ever since Checo said he's signed a contract. He said the team will announce it when & where it finds the right time. Is this all leading to Force India, Haas or Ferrari even?

98% Force India, 2% Haas, 0% Ferrari.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:47 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Perez looked better than Bottas in 2016, not similar, and Ocon is 11-3 up in Q and despite it being much closer in the races, much like Max vs Dan, Ocon doesn't get the same pass that Max seems to get and instead it's called close or he hasn't separated himself from Perez yet etc.

Being in the midfield your quali win can be reversed at T1 if the traffic doesn't fall your way, there's more traffic influence around the stops as well because you're not getting pitted into clear air so there are more influences in turning around a quali win than there is on the front rows so a quali advantage of 11-3 would be reflected in the races more in a better car I believe. Not to down play Sergio on a Sunday, I agree with sandman in that I think he'd be the perfect no.2 for Merc/Ferrari in that respect.

So I think it's harsh to say Ocon hasn't done enough, Hulk and Bottas were pretty similar in 2016 and Ocon is doing better than him too. I think if the Bottas contract talks were still going on he'd be in the mix, I think they pulled the trigger too early and his form since hasn't been very good again, much like last year post Monaco when he fell off.

It would be a travesty if Ocon wasn't on the grid but I don't feel sorry for Mercedes, it's Mercedes fault to be fair, they had a seat available but took it off the market before Ocon even had the chance to fully impress this year.

The qualifying gap between Verstappen and Ricciardo is 0.22s, the gap between Ocon and Perez is 0.03s, Hulk and Perez 0.04s, Button and Perez 0.06s, and then through numerous cross references Bottas and Button 0.04s.

So it's all much of a muchness and they all would make good #2 drivers and no Ocon is not out performing Perez to the same level as Verstappen is out performing Ricciardo, Ocon and Perez are two evenly matched drivers and because of that basically Mercedes know presently that he wouldn't be a upgrade on Bottas.

Which brings me back to what I heard that they were looking for Ocon to beat Perez, if he did that I believe he would have been nailed on for the Mercedes drive but at the earliest 2020 because obviously they needed to see how the season panned out and in respect to Bottas that would have been unfair on him to wait that long, at the point they re-signed Bottas no one could say that he was performing poorly.

It's a difficult position for Mercedes how do you drop a driver that doesn't deserve to be dropped whilst you have a junior driver Ocon who many would rate in the top 10 who maybe is without a seat?

Also they have Russell who's going to be ready for F1 next season, it's going to take serious money to have both of them in F1, money I'm not sure Mercedes want to spend and do they need both, how are they both going to get into the Mercedes team anytime soon?

Red Bull apparently are keen on putting one of the Mercedes drivers in at STR although they don't say which one, but that would take that driver to be released from his Mercedes contract, if Mercedes can't find that driver a F1 seat then maybe that driver should be released?


Much of a muchness using your figures though,right? We had a season to watch Bottas,Perez and Hulk fight in comparable cars and I don't think too many felt Bottas came out on top tbh. Fair enough about it being closer between Ocon and Perez than Max-Dan but the point still stands that there are more variables like traffic to get in the way of a team mate battle than there is on the front rows so being 11-3 up is still impressive, you'd have to think he'd convert more with less obstacles to get in his way.

I think Mercedes could've waited as long as Ferrari have tbh, I don't see how that's unfair on Bottas. I think Ocon will beat Perez but has shown enough already for me considering his age. Perez and Hulk have been the benchmarks for a while and he just looks quicker already. They could've seen Bottas take a bit of a dip again like last year which also might have gone in Ocon's favour but I agree at the time he signed he was driving well so there was no need to be on the lookout for a change.

It is a difficult position for Mercedes but I still have little sympathy. If they're not any better than Bottas then I don't think it's the end of the world to cut them and it can be someone else's problem, if one is better then put him in the team.

I don't understand why Perez scoring 16 points more than Bottas underpins him as being better than Bottas, Perez's season was underpinned by having 2 podiums although Bottas also had 1 podium, in terms of consistency however in the head to head Bottas beat Perez 11-8, also lets not forget that Bottas out scored the Hulk.

Ocon being better than Perez I just don't see it, I see two well matched drivers, also regarding qualifying I guess I have my own methods in compiling the data, I have it 9-4 to Ocon with 4 of those for Ocon being less than a tenth of a second, they are the second closest pairing on the grid.

I don't believe what Mercedes did with signing Bottas was a problem for Ocon at the time, it took two things to happen in order to make it a problem, first Ricciardo took Ocon's seat at Renault and then the Strolls bought Force India for Lance and Ocon's back up seat is now in jeopardy.

Going forward I would agree Mercedes need to make a decision for 2020, Bottas or Ocon, if not Ocon then they need to cut him free because the main obstacle for Ocon finding seats is that teams don't want to sign him on loan from Mercedes.


So he should beat Hulk and be 11-8 up against Perez in a better car more often than not (Although it was close several times). McLaren were back there so I followed it closely, both Hulk and Perez outdrove Bottas in 2016 for my money, the amount of points is actually quite big when you're only generally operating for positions 7-10.

They're (Ocon and Perez) pretty close no question but if they tend to fall one way more often than not then they're better and that's going to Ocon so far. I've mentioned some of the reasons it's harder to convert qualifying advantages in the midfield pack so it being a lot closer on a Sunday is understandable.

I just think they moved too early, they didn't really give Ocon enough time to impress against Perez this year before extending Bottas so I have little sympathy for them but plenty for Ocon.

I've been through this a year or 2 back the Williams was not the better car, it was better in the first part of the season and that's what people at the time zoned in on, the Force India was the better car in the second half of the season, the trail of bread crumbs to follow is to see which cars came out on top in qualifying, this being a season were Bottas dominated Massa in qualifying, so let's not be saying that Bottas was poor in qualifying.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:49 am 
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Zoue wrote:
a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54

Mercedes may have to consider releasing him from his contract if they can't find him a seat in F1.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:54 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54


I've said many times I dislike these YDP's and this is one reason why.

Many attempt to justify that YDP's put the emphasis on driver talent rather than the drivers wallet yet the sports on the verge of losing on of it's brightest talents exactly because of YDP's.

Merc don't look like they'll release Ocon to free him up to drive for a competitor and competitors won't hire him because he's part of the Merc stable so it looks like it'll be chow for now Estaban.

Meanwhile we have drivers like Stroll, Sirotkin & Ericsonn on the grid for no other reason than they come with a fat wallet, Brendan Hartley in TR and possibly Danii Kvyat coming back to that team because RB's YDP is a little light ATM and they won't go with anyone outside that program.

The sport has missed out on Robin Frijn's and Robert Wickens who many believe fully deserved a seat in F1 and now there's a possibility that Ocon might lose his seat, at least for a couple of seasons, due to his affiliation with Merc.


Ocon said himself his career was over after his F3 championship win until Wolff and Merc stepped in so without young driver programmes Ocon wouldn't have made GP3 let alone F1.

I agree it's not an ideal situation but without them the only drivers making F1 right now would be the likes of Stroll and Markelov.

Yeah criticising YDP's is ridiculous, this is how drivers without money find themselves in F1 which includes the likes of the soon to be 5 time WDC whether that be Hamilton or Vettel.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:58 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54


I've said many times I dislike these YDP's and this is one reason why.

Many attempt to justify that YDP's put the emphasis on driver talent rather than the drivers wallet yet the sports on the verge of losing on of it's brightest talents exactly because of YDP's.

Merc don't look like they'll release Ocon to free him up to drive for a competitor and competitors won't hire him because he's part of the Merc stable so it looks like it'll be chow for now Estaban.

Meanwhile we have drivers like Stroll, Sirotkin & Ericsonn on the grid for no other reason than they come with a fat wallet, Brendan Hartley in TR and possibly Danii Kvyat coming back to that team because RB's YDP is a little light ATM and they won't go with anyone outside that program.

The sport has missed out on Robin Frijn's and Robert Wickens who many believe fully deserved a seat in F1 and now there's a possibility that Ocon might lose his seat, at least for a couple of seasons, due to his affiliation with Merc.


Ocon said himself his career was over after his F3 championship win until Wolff and Merc stepped in so without young driver programmes Ocon wouldn't have made GP3 let alone F1.

I agree it's not an ideal situation but without them the only drivers making F1 right now would be the likes of Stroll and Markelov.


And if they don't release mikey him they risk ending it.

As for your 2nd point, if this is indeed the case then it's just a symptom of the biggest issue the sport faces. That being manufacturer influence over the direction of the sport.

Without Mercedes support Ocon would never have made it to F1 and now would be working as a car mechanic with his dad unless someone happened to come along and put him in something like a touring car or even FE.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:00 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Had Mercedes not hurried itself in resigning Bottas so early this season for 2019, I think Ocon's future would've been in safe hands & maybe he would've gotten promoted to Mercedes!

It all depends who had bigger priority - Bottas who was managed by Wolff or Ocon who was managed by Mercedes?

It's Wolff that saved Ocon's career not Mercedes as such, Wolff is Mercedes if you get what I mean.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:01 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Had Mercedes not hurried itself in resigning Bottas so early this season for 2019, I think Ocon's future would've been in safe hands & maybe he would've gotten promoted to Mercedes!

It all depends who had bigger priority - Bottas who was managed by Wolff or Ocon who was managed by Mercedes?


But why did they re-sign Bottas?

Don't forget what one of Hamilton's proviso's were to re-signing himself.

Can you prove that?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:14 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Had Mercedes not hurried itself in resigning Bottas so early this season for 2019, I think Ocon's future would've been in safe hands & maybe he would've gotten promoted to Mercedes!

It all depends who had bigger priority - Bottas who was managed by Wolff or Ocon who was managed by Mercedes?


But why did they re-sign Bottas?

Don't forget what one of Hamilton's proviso's were to re-signing himself.

Can you prove that?


No.

I've just spent the last hr or so looking for a sources after Zoue's post & all I found was they were indeed rumours.

Comment retracted

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:25 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The qualifying gap between Verstappen and Ricciardo is 0.22s, the gap between Ocon and Perez is 0.03s, Hulk and Perez 0.04s, Button and Perez 0.06s, and then through numerous cross references Bottas and Button 0.04s.

So it's all much of a muchness and they all would make good #2 drivers and no Ocon is not out performing Perez to the same level as Verstappen is out performing Ricciardo, Ocon and Perez are two evenly matched drivers and because of that basically Mercedes know presently that he wouldn't be a upgrade on Bottas.

Which brings me back to what I heard that they were looking for Ocon to beat Perez, if he did that I believe he would have been nailed on for the Mercedes drive but at the earliest 2020 because obviously they needed to see how the season panned out and in respect to Bottas that would have been unfair on him to wait that long, at the point they re-signed Bottas no one could say that he was performing poorly.

It's a difficult position for Mercedes how do you drop a driver that doesn't deserve to be dropped whilst you have a junior driver Ocon who many would rate in the top 10 who maybe is without a seat?

Also they have Russell who's going to be ready for F1 next season, it's going to take serious money to have both of them in F1, money I'm not sure Mercedes want to spend and do they need both, how are they both going to get into the Mercedes team anytime soon?

Red Bull apparently are keen on putting one of the Mercedes drivers in at STR although they don't say which one, but that would take that driver to be released from his Mercedes contract, if Mercedes can't find that driver a F1 seat then maybe that driver should be released?


Much of a muchness using your figures though,right? We had a season to watch Bottas,Perez and Hulk fight in comparable cars and I don't think too many felt Bottas came out on top tbh. Fair enough about it being closer between Ocon and Perez than Max-Dan but the point still stands that there are more variables like traffic to get in the way of a team mate battle than there is on the front rows so being 11-3 up is still impressive, you'd have to think he'd convert more with less obstacles to get in his way.

I think Mercedes could've waited as long as Ferrari have tbh, I don't see how that's unfair on Bottas. I think Ocon will beat Perez but has shown enough already for me considering his age. Perez and Hulk have been the benchmarks for a while and he just looks quicker already. They could've seen Bottas take a bit of a dip again like last year which also might have gone in Ocon's favour but I agree at the time he signed he was driving well so there was no need to be on the lookout for a change.

It is a difficult position for Mercedes but I still have little sympathy. If they're not any better than Bottas then I don't think it's the end of the world to cut them and it can be someone else's problem, if one is better then put him in the team.

I don't understand why Perez scoring 16 points more than Bottas underpins him as being better than Bottas, Perez's season was underpinned by having 2 podiums although Bottas also had 1 podium, in terms of consistency however in the head to head Bottas beat Perez 11-8, also lets not forget that Bottas out scored the Hulk.

Ocon being better than Perez I just don't see it, I see two well matched drivers, also regarding qualifying I guess I have my own methods in compiling the data, I have it 9-4 to Ocon with 4 of those for Ocon being less than a tenth of a second, they are the second closest pairing on the grid.

I don't believe what Mercedes did with signing Bottas was a problem for Ocon at the time, it took two things to happen in order to make it a problem, first Ricciardo took Ocon's seat at Renault and then the Strolls bought Force India for Lance and Ocon's back up seat is now in jeopardy.

Going forward I would agree Mercedes need to make a decision for 2020, Bottas or Ocon, if not Ocon then they need to cut him free because the main obstacle for Ocon finding seats is that teams don't want to sign him on loan from Mercedes.


So he should beat Hulk and be 11-8 up against Perez in a better car more often than not (Although it was close several times). McLaren were back there so I followed it closely, both Hulk and Perez outdrove Bottas in 2016 for my money, the amount of points is actually quite big when you're only generally operating for positions 7-10.

They're (Ocon and Perez) pretty close no question but if they tend to fall one way more often than not then they're better and that's going to Ocon so far. I've mentioned some of the reasons it's harder to convert qualifying advantages in the midfield pack so it being a lot closer on a Sunday is understandable.

I just think they moved too early, they didn't really give Ocon enough time to impress against Perez this year before extending Bottas so I have little sympathy for them but plenty for Ocon.

I've been through this a year or 2 back the Williams was not the better car, it was better in the first part of the season and that's what people at the time zoned in on, the Force India was the better car in the second half of the season, the trail of bread crumbs to follow is to see which cars came out on top in qualifying, this being a season were Bottas dominated Massa in qualifying, so let's not be saying that Bottas was poor in qualifying.


It was better on balance, it was quicker in a few (Monza,Brazil and Malaysia) in the back half and near equal as you can get at some others which when combined with the pre Monaco form gives it the edge over the year imo. It was pretty close though.

Massa was awful so while I don't think Bottas was poor, far from it, but he didn't need to be great to beat him. You could throw a blanket over the three (Hulk,Perez and Bottas) of them most of the time so fair enough if you saw it the other way but I think Perez and Hulk were a bit ahead over the year.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:56 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54


I've said many times I dislike these YDP's and this is one reason why.

Many attempt to justify that YDP's put the emphasis on driver talent rather than the drivers wallet yet the sports on the verge of losing on of it's brightest talents exactly because of YDP's.

Merc don't look like they'll release Ocon to free him up to drive for a competitor and competitors won't hire him because he's part of the Merc stable so it looks like it'll be chow for now Estaban.

Meanwhile we have drivers like Stroll, Sirotkin & Ericsonn on the grid for no other reason than they come with a fat wallet, Brendan Hartley in TR and possibly Danii Kvyat coming back to that team because RB's YDP is a little light ATM and they won't go with anyone outside that program.

The sport has missed out on Robin Frijn's and Robert Wickens who many believe fully deserved a seat in F1 and now there's a possibility that Ocon might lose his seat, at least for a couple of seasons, due to his affiliation with Merc.


Ocon said himself his career was over after his F3 championship win until Wolff and Merc stepped in so without young driver programmes Ocon wouldn't have made GP3 let alone F1.

I agree it's not an ideal situation but without them the only drivers making F1 right now would be the likes of Stroll and Markelov.

Yeah criticising YDP's is ridiculous, this is how drivers without money find themselves in F1 which includes the likes of the soon to be 5 time WDC whether that be Hamilton or Vettel.


No I don't believe it is ridiculous. You can't say Vettel or Hamilton would not have made it to F1 with the help of a YDP. I don't believe the talent in F1 was any poorer prior to the advent of YDP's.

I see a YDP only as a way for teams to corral talent then sieve them out over time until they're left with the gold & the others can fight for the dross. Maybe i'm getting cynical as I get older but I don't believe for 1 minute its simply about fostering young talent. It's about me signing the best young drivers up to heavily lopsided contracts so you can't and once I sign them then i'll decide if I need them or not.

I wonder how the teams would react if Liberty or the FIA banned YDP's and instead offered to fund the careers of young talent themselves, free from the shackles of contractual obligations to teams, as they move through the lower formulae and then stop the funding either when the driver signs their first F1 contract, fails to meet KPI's or looks unlikely to progress any further?

I think that's a better alternative than the teams controlling the futures of the F1 stars of tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:58 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54

Mercedes may have to consider releasing him from his contract if they can't find him a seat in F1.

yes I thought I'd read somewhere they were considering doing exactly that but can't find it now. Would seem a shame that a talent would be denied a seat because of contractual wrangling


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:01 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Had Mercedes not hurried itself in resigning Bottas so early this season for 2019, I think Ocon's future would've been in safe hands & maybe he would've gotten promoted to Mercedes!

It all depends who had bigger priority - Bottas who was managed by Wolff or Ocon who was managed by Mercedes?


But why did they re-sign Bottas?

Don't forget what one of Hamilton's proviso's were to re-signing himself.

Can you prove that?


No.

I've just spent the last hr or so looking for a sources after Zoue's post & all I found was they were indeed rumours.

Comment retracted

Fair enough :thumbup:

Meanwhile Hamilton is one of the drivers commending Ocon and saying he deserves a seat in F1.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Torro Rosso will surely have two seats available for next season. Hartley seems incredibly unlikely to be retained. Given the lack of Junior drivers from the RB programme who are ready, I imagine two out of Kvyat/Buemi/Vergne will fill the seats.

There is a chance Vandoorne could get in at Torro Rosso with his Honda experience, but his stock is low right now.

Hopefully Ocon gets a Williams drive. Ocon is a driver that a team like that can build around.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54

Mercedes may have to consider releasing him from his contract if they can't find him a seat in F1.

yes I thought I'd read somewhere they were considering doing exactly that but can't find it now. Would seem a shame that a talent would be denied a seat because of contractual wrangling


It would be a shame if Ocon can't find a seat because of his Merc commitments so Merc release him after all the seats have been filled.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:05 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Torro Rosso would certainly have a fair few more points this season if Kvyat had been there instead of Hartley.


I disagree. Kvyat scored 5 whole points last season. His team mate scored 48 in the same period

This season Harltey has 2 points and his team mate has 28.

Kvyat may have scored the odd point extra but it really wouldn't be a lot.

Edit - in fact for their whole time as team mates together Kvyat scored 9 points where Sainz scored 90. I really don't see any evidence to suggest he'd suddenly be banking massive points now.


When Kvyat came back in for that race last season he scored a point. His Red Bull experience left him demotivated for a long time. But the spark was back. There is little doubt in my mind that he is a faster driver than Hartley.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:10 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Torro Rosso would certainly have a fair few more points this season if Kvyat had been there instead of Hartley.


I disagree. Kvyat scored 5 whole points last season. His team mate scored 48 in the same period

This season Harltey has 2 points and his team mate has 28.

Kvyat may have scored the odd point extra but it really wouldn't be a lot.

Edit - in fact for their whole time as team mates together Kvyat scored 9 points where Sainz scored 90. I really don't see any evidence to suggest he'd suddenly be banking massive points now.


When Kvyat came back in for that race last season he scored a point. His Red Bull experience left him demotivated for a long time. But the spark was back. There is little doubt in my mind that he is a faster driver than Hartley.


I think at his best he is but why after a poor 18 months would he certainly be back to his best this season?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:23 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54

Mercedes may have to consider releasing him from his contract if they can't find him a seat in F1.

yes I thought I'd read somewhere they were considering doing exactly that but can't find it now. Would seem a shame that a talent would be denied a seat because of contractual wrangling


It would be a shame if Ocon can't find a seat because of his Merc commitments so Merc release him after all the seats have been filled.

here it is

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11482634/esteban-ocon-could-be-released-from-mercedes-to-help-f1-2019-bid


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:58 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54

Mercedes may have to consider releasing him from his contract if they can't find him a seat in F1.

yes I thought I'd read somewhere they were considering doing exactly that but can't find it now. Would seem a shame that a talent would be denied a seat because of contractual wrangling


It would be a shame if Ocon can't find a seat because of his Merc commitments so Merc release him after all the seats have been filled.

here it is

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11482634/esteban-ocon-could-be-released-from-mercedes-to-help-f1-2019-bid


But most doors are closed already for Ocon. Apart from Williams, can we expect Ocon to be considered at Haas or Sauber?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:00 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
a lot of doors closing on Ocon due to his Mercedes connection, it seems

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/toro-rosso-ocon-horner-mercedes/3172433/?nrt=54

Mercedes may have to consider releasing him from his contract if they can't find him a seat in F1.

yes I thought I'd read somewhere they were considering doing exactly that but can't find it now. Would seem a shame that a talent would be denied a seat because of contractual wrangling


But those teams that're keeping Ocon away because of his Mercedes tie-ups are losing it big time. What if Mercedes do cut off ties with him, wouldn't Ocon, considering his skills would be great to sign onboard?

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