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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:14 pm 
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About a month ago Ricciardo said he wants to race against Hamilton in Merc.

Hamilton in an interview after that said Ricciardo should try beating his teammate (MV) first before talking about partnering him. His quotes were pretty abrasive actually.

In a more recent interview, he said he thinks himself, FA, SV and MV are the best drivers in F1. No mention of Ricciardo.

Just found it funny how he doesn't think much of Daniel Ricciardo.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:33 pm 
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Makes me want to see them side by side even more...

Hopefully that means he wouldn't veto Ricciardo if a deal was done for him to move to Mercedes in 2019.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:51 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
About a month ago Ricciardo said he wants to race against Hamilton in Merc.

Hamilton in an interview after that said Ricciardo should try beating his teammate (MV) first before talking about partnering him. His quotes were pretty abrasive actually.

In a more recent interview, he said he thinks himself, FA, SV and MV are the best drivers in F1. No mention of Ricciardo.

Just found it funny how he doesn't think much of Daniel Ricciardo.

It is, particularly if he's going to go putting Vettel in that top category. If he's sticking only to drivers who have never been outclassed by a teammate (and putting both himself and Alonso on that list) it should be only the top three. You can't rate Vettel without rating Ricciardo at least a fair amount.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:10 am 
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Any direct quotes or links to a source? Before making a judgement on comments like this since context is everything and reading someone else's paraphrasing of what was said can lead to poor interpretations.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:25 am 
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He didn’t rate Rosberg either, and we all know how that turned out.

Hamilton is probably regarded as the best qualifier ever in F1.
Well did you know Rosberg outqualified Ham 12 vs 7 in 2014.

(Head to head other years
2015 - Ham 12 - Ros 7
2016 - Ham 12 - Ros 9)

And I think most would rate Ricciardo better than Rosberg.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:15 am 
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“Daniel is a fantastic driver, it would be a privilege to race against him,” Hamilton said.
“He’s a great character. He always brings a lot of positivity within his team. I think it’s interesting, I think it’s cool, I take the compliment that people say they [want to race against me]."


Quote:
Picking his words carefully, Hamilton explained: “I don’t truly necessarily believe that people want to be up alongside me because that is not always necessarily the best thing for an individual, but in some cases it could be a really good thing because it can help you grow.
“You look at Daniel. He’s got a great driver in his teammate and, to be honest, he has got to really work to outperform him first ...
“You’ve always got to beat the person you’re with first before you can look at competing against someone else and beating them. That’s just my personal opinion.
“I already feel like I’ve raced against the best here, which in my personal opinion is Fernando (Alonso, of McLaren Honda). We have a great driver in Valtteri (Bottas), who I’m enjoying racing with.
“There are a lot of great drivers here who I would be happy to race against. I don’t mind who I race against — anyone in the world — as long as you’re able to maintain positivity in the team and hopefully you’re still fighting another team as well.
“I think that harmony is incredibly important for everyone to be enjoying what they do.”


Source: http://www.news.com.au/sport/motorsport ... 8cf0c867c5

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:19 am 
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In a more recent interview, he said he thinks himself, FA, SV and MV are the best drivers in F1. No mention of Ricciardo.

Does anyone have a link to this interview?

After Monaco 2016, Lewis said on the podium that Daniel is one of the best drivers he’s ever raced against.

Maybe this year made him change his mind.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:24 am 
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I really have no idea who would win out of Hamilton v Ricciardo or Hamilton v Verstappen. I hope I see it some day soon before he's over the hill

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:21 am 
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If Bottas can be so closely matched to Hamilton, I've no doubt Ricciardo would be at par with Hamilton, if not beat him at times.

It doesn't make a difference if Hamilton mentioned him or not, Ricciardo is probably the best overtaker on the grid & also has the best personality by far.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:37 am 
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I find those comments quite odd. Lewis has praised Ricciardo in the past, I guess he's been taken aback by how things have turned out at Redbull, with Verstappen clearly seeming faster than Daniel. I also think he is protecting Bottas. He really likes having Bottas on that team. And no, I don't believe him and Bottas were closely matched.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:01 am 
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mcdo wrote:
I really have no idea who would win out of Hamilton v Ricciardo or Hamilton v Verstappen. I hope I see it some day soon before he's over the hill

Hamilton would beat Ricciardo, but lose to Verstappen.

Ricciardo is probably not as fast as Hamilton, not as good in the rain, and struggles more to adapt. Ricciardo's racecraft is top notch however, and I think he would provide a stiffer challenge than Rosberg.

Verstappen is just as fast as Hamilton, just as good in the rain, and tougher than Hamilton at wheel to wheel racing. He's also very adaptable. Also, unlike Hamilton and Ricciardo, Verstappen is not yet in his prime age. He's only getting better and better.

Just my two cents. We'll see if I'm right in a few years.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:06 am 
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Iv'e seen the 'best driver' interview in a number of places. It's basically who he considers are the top four drivers; himself, Vettel, Verstappen and Alonso. Bit of a stretch to get a 'Hamilton doesn't really rate Ricciardo' from that piece.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/42132327


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:11 am 
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I have never rated Ricciardo myself and he became the media #1 guy just because Alonso(the previous media #1 darling) was not fighting at the front anymore.

I still maintain to this day that Sainz Jr. would give Verstappen a much harder time pacewise(and at the starts) than Ricciardo. It his unbelievable how much Ricciardo was outpaced by Max in qualifying.
Oh and he is not actually that nice/genuine/not jealous like many want us to believe.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:20 am 
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Randine wrote:
He didn’t rate Rosberg either, and we all know how that turned out.

Hamilton is probably regarded as the best qualifier ever in F1.
Well did you know Rosberg outqualified Ham 12 vs 7 in 2014.

(Head to head other years
2015 - Ham 12 - Ros 7
2016 - Ham 12 - Ros 9)

And I think most would rate Ricciardo better than Rosberg.


If you have a dominant car, a single problem in qualifying means your teammate(Rosberg, Bottas, Magnussen, Palmer) his on pole.

I am a Hamilton fan and I did rate Rosberg but probably not as high as Hamilton did.
If you remember well, Hamilton was the first to tell to people not to underestimate Nico well before their first race together(2013). And their was also an Italian Kart mechanic who has worked with HAM/ROS/KUB who was quoted saying that Rosberg was probably equally fast if not the fastest, but Hamilton the most talented(qualifying, wet, wheel to wheel, starts).


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:43 am 
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There is not much to say, honestly. He is quite confident he would beat Daniel, and I definitely think he will if they found themselves in that situation. They both are great all round racers, but Lewis clearly edges him.

Moreover, Daniel is not going places if he keeps getting beat by Max

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:45 am 
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Well, once again the actual quotes carry a completely different tone to those in the original post.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Pullrod wrote:
I have never rated Ricciardo myself and he became the media #1 guy just because Alonso(the previous media #1 darling) was not fighting at the front anymore.

I still maintain to this day that Sainz Jr. would give Verstappen a much harder time pacewise(and at the starts) than Ricciardo. It his unbelievable how much Ricciardo was outpaced by Max in qualifying.
Oh and he is not actually that nice/genuine/not jealous like many want us to believe.


What a post!

He became a media darling as Alonso wasn't in the front??? When? If he became a media darling, that was because he beat a 4xWDC fair and square.

Also, how do you know he's not as nice a guy as people think? That's a weird claim


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
I have never rated Ricciardo myself and he became the media #1 guy just because Alonso(the previous media #1 darling) was not fighting at the front anymore.

I still maintain to this day that Sainz Jr. would give Verstappen a much harder time pacewise(and at the starts) than Ricciardo. It his unbelievable how much Ricciardo was outpaced by Max in qualifying.
Oh and he is not actually that nice/genuine/not jealous like many want us to believe.


What a post!

He became a media darling as Alonso wasn't in the front??? When? If he became a media darling, that was because he beat a 4xWDC fair and square.

Also, how do you know he's not as nice a guy as people think? That's a weird claim


He became a media darling, in large part, due to his funniness.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:53 pm 
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He likes having Bottas in the team because Bottas is not near Rosbergs class.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:13 pm 
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Ennis wrote:
Well, once again the actual quotes carry a completely different tone to those in the original post.


Yep, well said. Plenty of people want to paint Hamilton in the worst possible light as often as they can.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:31 pm 
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Randine wrote:
He didn’t rate Rosberg either, and we all know how that turned out.

Hamilton is probably regarded as the best qualifier ever in F1.
Well did you know Rosberg outqualified Ham 12 vs 7 in 2014.

(Head to head other years
2015 - Ham 12 - Ros 7
2016 - Ham 12 - Ros 9)

And I think most would rate Ricciardo better than Rosberg.

I'm guessing that includes qualifying sessions which Hamilton didn't compete in?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:42 pm 
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The rating of Verstappen against Ricciardo is ridiculous. People just completely ignore the results achieved by the drivers.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Ennis wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
I have never rated Ricciardo myself and he became the media #1 guy just because Alonso(the previous media #1 darling) was not fighting at the front anymore.

I still maintain to this day that Sainz Jr. would give Verstappen a much harder time pacewise(and at the starts) than Ricciardo. It his unbelievable how much Ricciardo was outpaced by Max in qualifying.
Oh and he is not actually that nice/genuine/not jealous like many want us to believe.


What a post!

He became a media darling as Alonso wasn't in the front??? When? If he became a media darling, that was because he beat a 4xWDC fair and square.

Also, how do you know he's not as nice a guy as people think? That's a weird claim


He became a media darling, in large part, due to his funniness.


That probably contributed, true


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:11 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
I have never rated Ricciardo myself and he became the media #1 guy just because Alonso(the previous media #1 darling) was not fighting at the front anymore.

I still maintain to this day that Sainz Jr. would give Verstappen a much harder time pacewise(and at the starts) than Ricciardo. It his unbelievable how much Ricciardo was outpaced by Max in qualifying.
Oh and he is not actually that nice/genuine/not jealous like many want us to believe.


What a post!

He became a media darling as Alonso wasn't in the front??? When? If he became a media darling, that was because he beat a 4xWDC fair and square.

Also, how do you know he's not as nice a guy as people think? That's a weird claim


He became a media darling, in large part, due to his funniness.


That probably contributed, true

I think that he's a truly engaging and upbeat person and his first couple of seasons in Red Bull he was getting unexpectedly good results so you rarely saw him down. Then in 2015 when expectations were a bit higher when we saw him down for the first time after the Monaco pit disaster some took that as him showing his true colors and for those people him showing more disappointment lately as reinforced that feeling. I don't buy it though. Everybody gets down at some point and displays it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:13 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
The rating of Verstappen against Ricciardo is ridiculous. People just completely ignore the results achieved by the drivers.

Points don't always tell the story, Verstappen has basically beat Ricciardo in a similar fashion to what Ricciardo beat Vettel in 2014.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Ricciardo seems to lack the ruthlessness of the past world champions. Even Jenson Button was pretty ruthless dominating the first part of 2009 and then ensuring he finished in the points to take the title. With Ricciardo he just seems too nice and cheerful to be a true title contender. Hamilton, Alonso, Schumacher, Vettel and Verstappen have a very mean streak.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:02 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
I have never rated Ricciardo myself and he became the media #1 guy just because Alonso(the previous media #1 darling) was not fighting at the front anymore.

I still maintain to this day that Sainz Jr. would give Verstappen a much harder time pacewise(and at the starts) than Ricciardo. It his unbelievable how much Ricciardo was outpaced by Max in qualifying.
Oh and he is not actually that nice/genuine/not jealous like many want us to believe.


What a post!

He became a media darling as Alonso wasn't in the front??? When? If he became a media darling, that was because he beat a 4xWDC fair and square.

Also, how do you know he's not as nice a guy as people think? That's a weird claim


He became a media darling, in large part, due to his funniness.


That probably contributed, true

I think that he's a truly engaging and upbeat person and his first couple of seasons in Red Bull he was getting unexpectedly good results so you rarely saw him down. Then in 2015 when expectations were a bit higher when we saw him down for the first time after the Monaco pit disaster some took that as him showing his true colors and for those people him showing more disappointment lately as reinforced that feeling. I don't buy it though. Everybody gets down at some point and displays it.


Of course, how would you feel if you got bad luck in a race? Definitely not upbeat.

But that is far from claiming that this person is not genuine... What does that even mean in our case? Was he insincere or dishonest to someone?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:04 pm 
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Randine wrote:
He didn’t rate Rosberg either, and we all know how that turned out.

Hamilton is probably regarded as the best qualifier ever in F1.
Well did you know Rosberg outqualified Ham 12 vs 7 in 2014.

(Head to head other years
2015 - Ham 12 - Ros 7
2016 - Ham 12 - Ros 9)

And I think most would rate Ricciardo better than Rosberg.


Whilst I rate Rosberg highly, possibly higher than even Ricciardo or at least the same ball park. This is the problem with statistics.

2016. 12-9.

Hamilton didn't take part in 3 sessions. So that is actually 12-6.

The 6 included.
Singapore - Hamilton missed FP2 and FP3 (the only night time sessions)
Hungary - Nico ran yellow flags when everybody backed off. Hamilton was 0.3 up on him before backing off.
Monaco - Hamilton got 1 disjointed run with a heavier car due to breaking down
Baku - Hamilton crashed out when on a lap 0.4 up on the eventual pole time. Yes Hamilton did crash and Nico performed better, but Hamilton was easily the quicker that day.

The other 2 were Japan were he beat Lewis by 0.07 (one of Hamiltons weakest track) and Germany were he actually did an awesome job and beat Lewis by about 0.100 when he himself had the disadvantage of only getting 1 run. The highlight of his season for me.

Basically, Rosberg was as quick as Hamilton maybe 2 or 3 times in ALL of 2016 over 1 lap in the 17 Q3's they both took part in.

2016 was Nico's weakest year against Hamilton by all measures (qualifying speed, race craft, errors, driver penalties) but that's how racing works out sometimes. I find it really odd when he gives these interviews saying how 2016 he focused so much and changed his approach in many ways its what won him it. But he was slower and not as strong as the other years.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:36 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
The rating of Verstappen against Ricciardo is ridiculous. People just completely ignore the results achieved by the drivers.

Points don't always tell the story, Verstappen has basically beat Ricciardo in a similar fashion to what Ricciardo beat Vettel in 2014.


That is a stretch!
A reigning world champ had zero wins vs Dan’s 3 wins in 2014.
Dan’s performance was so strong that when Vettel asked if he could leave his Red Bull contract 1 year early, they let him. (Was contracted till the end of 2015)

When Max signed up for 3 years, Red Bull still don’t want to let Dan go.

Dan’s motivation has been down due to being at Red Bull for 4 years and still they haven’t produced a title contender.
Dan and Max split their set ups quite a lot in 2017. Eg Dan going lower downforce vs Max higher down force. Sometimes it worked for Dan, other times for Max.
Then for the last 4 races Max has had a newer spec engine that is supposedly worth an extra 1-2 tenths, yet still Dan beat him in qualifying 2 of those 4 races, with the margin at the last being 4 tenths.

And for 2 years running Dan has come out on top in points.
Max is good, but he makes more mistakes than Dan.
And for that I expect Dan to beat him in points again in 2018 too (to get his first wdc).

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:58 pm 
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I don't think you can compare the mistakes of DR/MV in 2016/2017. Once you are out of the WDC race the risk-reward balance is completely different. Verstappen has made very few mistakes this year too but he did take some risks and they did pay off mostly (Mexico pass on Vettel and Malaysia pass on Hamilton) and less so by keeping his foot in at the start at Singapore when a driver involved in a WDC may have backed off a lot earlier.

That would be completely different if they were involved in a WDC. I also think that with these two drivers, MV may be the happier too. He won 2 races, Ricciardo 1. Given that they have so few career wins (DR 5, MV 3 and DR 4, MV 1 going into this season) I think MV would rather the 2 wins and 168 points rather than 1 win and 200 points. Possibly DR would prefer the wins too.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:15 pm 
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Sky F1 had a video where they ask Alonso to rate the RBR / Merc / Ferrari drivers.

He ordered them Hamilton, Verstappen, Ricciardo (in that order) as Tier 1 and then Vettel, Bottas Raikkonen in Tier 2.

Ultimately, Hamilton's crown this year was fought against Vettel, it would be self diminishing if Hamilton didn't rate Vettel as one of the best, even though previously - during the RBR days and before Hamilton moved to Mercedes - Hamilton stated that Vettel wasn't even at Rosberg's level.

I personally feel Ricciardo is better than Vettel, although 2014 paints it as more one sided than it is. However Max vs Ricciardo is probably the more difficult choice to call. I think it's Ricciardo at the moment. But I think that it's all but a certainty that Max will be better when he's Ricciardo's age than Ricciardo is now. However, Ricciardo's timing has sucked, he arrived at RBR after their golden age, and as the team rebuilds a younger fresher face has arrived.

There is no doubt that Hamilton and Alonso have recognised Max as being to their generation what Schumacher was to the Senna/Prost generation. To say Hamilton doesn't rate Ricciardo is disingenuous - he's picked who he feels is the top driver from each of the major teams. Of those teams, Red Bull have the closest pairing. Max has more outright natural talent, but Ricciardo probably has the sharpest racing mind of any driver on the grid today.
It really depends where your natural biases lead you.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:13 pm 
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^^whether he rates Vettel tier one or not, to give him the same rating as Kimi suggests an ulterior motive


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Randine wrote:
pokerman wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
The rating of Verstappen against Ricciardo is ridiculous. People just completely ignore the results achieved by the drivers.

Points don't always tell the story, Verstappen has basically beat Ricciardo in a similar fashion to what Ricciardo beat Vettel in 2014.


That is a stretch!
A reigning world champ had zero wins vs Dan’s 3 wins in 2014.
Dan’s performance was so strong that when Vettel asked if he could leave his Red Bull contract 1 year early, they let him. (Was contracted till the end of 2015)

When Max signed up for 3 years, Red Bull still don’t want to let Dan go.

Dan’s motivation has been down due to being at Red Bull for 4 years and still they haven’t produced a title contender.
Dan and Max split their set ups quite a lot in 2017. Eg Dan going lower downforce vs Max higher down force. Sometimes it worked for Dan, other times for Max.
Then for the last 4 races Max has had a newer spec engine that is supposedly worth an extra 1-2 tenths, yet still Dan beat him in qualifying 2 of those 4 races, with the margin at the last being 4 tenths.

And for 2 years running Dan has come out on top in points.
Max is good, but he makes more mistakes than Dan.
And for that I expect Dan to beat him in points again in 2018 too (to get his first wdc).


Not true... He didn't break his contract because Dan beat him, there was an exit clause. He did it around the Japanese GP, 4 races before the end of the season. And since the negotiations have certainly taken place way before that, it indicates that it wasn't Dan's beating that made Vettel leave.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:55 pm 
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Randine wrote:
pokerman wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
The rating of Verstappen against Ricciardo is ridiculous. People just completely ignore the results achieved by the drivers.

Points don't always tell the story, Verstappen has basically beat Ricciardo in a similar fashion to what Ricciardo beat Vettel in 2014.


That is a stretch!
A reigning world champ had zero wins vs Dan’s 3 wins in 2014.
Dan’s performance was so strong that when Vettel asked if he could leave his Red Bull contract 1 year early, they let him. (Was contracted till the end of 2015)

When Max signed up for 3 years, Red Bull still don’t want to let Dan go.

Dan’s motivation has been down due to being at Red Bull for 4 years and still they haven’t produced a title contender.
Dan and Max split their set ups quite a lot in 2017. Eg Dan going lower downforce vs Max higher down force. Sometimes it worked for Dan, other times for Max.
Then for the last 4 races Max has had a newer spec engine that is supposedly worth an extra 1-2 tenths, yet still Dan beat him in qualifying 2 of those 4 races, with the margin at the last being 4 tenths.

And for 2 years running Dan has come out on top in points.
Max is good, but he makes more mistakes than Dan.
And for that I expect Dan to beat him in points again in 2018 too (to get his first wdc).

Verstappen's beating of Ricciardo in qualifying is close to the same as the beating that Vettel got in 2014, Verstappen also won 2 races on merit whereas Ricciardo's 1 win was very much gifted when half the grid either crashed, had mechanical problems or got penalised, Riccardo scored more points like Vandoorne nearly scored more points than Alonso, like Stroll nearly scored more points than Massa, it didn't tell the true story.

Vettel left Red Bull because it was in his contract that he could leave, he begged no one, whilst Red Bull clearly targeted Verstappen as their main priority when they gave him the rumoured $40M a year contract, good luck with that if Ricciardo gets anywhere near that kind of contract.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:56 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
^^whether he rates Vettel tier one or not, to give him the same rating as Kimi suggests an ulterior motive


Well, the motive is fairly obvious. He believes he had the best racing years of his career spent racing someone he believes to be inferior in talent beating him via car advantage and nothing more. It must sting (and it stung Hamilton till now too, although by matching Vettel in titles it'll be interesting to see how his stance changes in relation to him). Yes, he is being facetious by lumping him in with Kimi and Bottas but we all engage in hyperbole to make a point lol.

I'd imagine the only reason he isn't doing the same with Hamilton is because of the direct comparison they have, do down Hamilton, you do down yourself in the process.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Had their car been a merc, Daniel would have been champion this year and the other, if we take points alone. Of course, this is just an example. It doesn't have to be conclusive, but all this talk about beating teammates, or who is better, would not exist, if the dominant car would have been the redbull. Daniel has outscored Max again,

This is one side of the story.

When the car was not on top, even Hamilton struggled to beat Button sometimes.

SO of course, there are different ways of putting things.

Hamilton is a weird character, to say the least. I personally despise people with such characters, as they can't get over frustrations from the past.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:55 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Randine wrote:
pokerman wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
The rating of Verstappen against Ricciardo is ridiculous. People just completely ignore the results achieved by the drivers.

Points don't always tell the story, Verstappen has basically beat Ricciardo in a similar fashion to what Ricciardo beat Vettel in 2014.


That is a stretch!
A reigning world champ had zero wins vs Dan’s 3 wins in 2014.
Dan’s performance was so strong that when Vettel asked if he could leave his Red Bull contract 1 year early, they let him. (Was contracted till the end of 2015)

When Max signed up for 3 years, Red Bull still don’t want to let Dan go.

Dan’s motivation has been down due to being at Red Bull for 4 years and still they haven’t produced a title contender.
Dan and Max split their set ups quite a lot in 2017. Eg Dan going lower downforce vs Max higher down force. Sometimes it worked for Dan, other times for Max.
Then for the last 4 races Max has had a newer spec engine that is supposedly worth an extra 1-2 tenths, yet still Dan beat him in qualifying 2 of those 4 races, with the margin at the last being 4 tenths.

And for 2 years running Dan has come out on top in points.
Max is good, but he makes more mistakes than Dan.
And for that I expect Dan to beat him in points again in 2018 too (to get his first wdc).

Verstappen's beating of Ricciardo in qualifying is close to the same as the beating that Vettel got in 2014, Verstappen also won 2 races on merit whereas Ricciardo's 1 win was very much gifted when half the grid either crashed, had mechanical problems or got penalised, Riccardo scored more points like Vandoorne nearly scored more points than Alonso, like Stroll nearly scored more points than Massa, it didn't tell the true story.

Vettel left Red Bull because it was in his contract that he could leave, he begged no one, whilst Red Bull clearly targeted Verstappen as their main priority when they gave him the rumoured $40M a year contract, good luck with that if Ricciardo gets anywhere near that kind of contract.


Neither does lumping Dan's performance relative to Max in with the likes of Stoff's and Stroll's to their team mate's. He was far far closer to Max than those two got to theirs.

He lost out mainly in starts and of course Q. But even the 13-7 scoreline doesn't tell the whole story there. Dan had a rough patch in the middle quarters of the season but won both the 1st and last 3-2. He gave Max 2 freebies by crashing. The team gave Max two more in Monaco and GB through reliability/sending him out in traffic. He got another freebie in Mexico but both Dan/engineers need to take the blame there set up wise. (And Dan himself got a gift in China)

5 of the 13 for Max were practically gifts and hard to get a handle on pace wise. 6 Q3's were under a tenth which is a coin toss (It went 3-3). 9 of the 16 Q3's we got to see were under 0.154.

0.021
0.026
0.026
0.054
0.081
0.087
0.139
0.142
0.154
0.256
0.369
0.405
0.469
0.483
0.502
0.873

Much like the Sunday Max had the higher high's but Dan was generally there or thereabouts for the majority so if Max has been so impressive then it speaks highly of Dan too.

Dan's biggest issue appeared to be with getting heat into the tyres for grip and with the hypersoft next year two steps softer I'm not convinced he's going to struggle as badly and it wouldn't surprise me if he turned that Q deficit around like Lewis did in 2015 (from 2014).

I think he needs to be more aggressive at the starts as well though,Max has been excellent in that department and I think that's the biggest difference between the two this year. Everything else has been pretty close really and even after adjusting for luck the points difference isn't that big although it does turn in Max's favour though in most of the breakdowns I've seen to be fair yeah.

Sorry for the long post and maybe you didn't mean to lump Dan in with them in that sense but I've seen some exaggerating of the gap between Max and Dan going around some places and thought I'd stick my 2 cents worth in. Don't get me wrong, Max had the higher highs but he also had the lowest low in Hungary and Dan's consistency and race craft kept it pretty close and respectable imo. Qualifying might resemble the Dan vs Seb battle but that's pretty much it.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:59 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
Had their car been a merc, Daniel would have been champion this year and the other, if we take points alone. Of course, this is just an example. It doesn't have to be conclusive, but all this talk about beating teammates, or who is better, would not exist, if the dominant car would have been the redbull. Daniel has outscored Max again,

This is one side of the story.

When the car was not on top, even Hamilton struggled to beat Button sometimes.

SO of course, there are different ways of putting things.

Hamilton is a weird character, to say the least. I personally despise people with such characters, as they can't get over frustrations from the past.

Whhhhhat???!?!?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:38 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Quote:
In a more recent interview, he said he thinks himself, FA, SV and MV are the best drivers in F1. No mention of Ricciardo.

Does anyone have a link to this interview?

After Monaco 2016, Lewis said on the podium that Daniel is one of the best drivers he’s ever raced against.

Maybe this year made him change his mind.


Just like after every win/podium he thanks the crowd and often states that they are the best crowd in the world, or words to that effect? There's quite a bit of fluff that Lewis speaks on occasion.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:58 pm 
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By the way, if you consider qualifying as the be-all-end-all measure, then please consider this:

Senna 28 - 4 Prost

...then compare Verstappen and Ricciardo again (2016-17)

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