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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:03 pm 
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So we had a mildly entertaining season with finally two different cars fighting for the crown. Ferrari started good, Mercedes caught up. It's already a usual way for Ferrari to lose the development war.

But what I actually think is that the key person behind Hamilton's new crown is none else but Nico Rosberg. Had he stayed, Hamilton would have a much stronger competition and certainly would lose more points to Nico than to Valteri. That would put Vettel into completely new position, similar to that in 2010 where he got the crown because other drivers had taken from each other valuable points - and of course because of the excellent finish of the season.

In the midfield, hats down to Force India, they beat a big name of Williams fair and square, who, in return should really be able to find a way back to podiums, else, all their heritage would start to loose it's significance.

Down the pack there was a Sauber who was lucky to have Wehrlein to score 5 points for them, a rare occurrence in a couple of years back. They will seemingly be restructured, so let's see what will a change bring to them.

Mclaren is building up from scratch, so I will not touch them after a few disastrous years.

RBR shows flashes of speed in certain races, just to loose that altogether in the following race. Strange thing. Do they have something up their sleeve that convinced Verstappen to sign a multi year contact with them?

HAAS was a mixed bag, to which their drivers contributed perfectly. Their car does not have any livery, in fact, it's a denial of a livery, but at times they had good races. Somehow, toward the end of the year, they lost the speed like a bull up the hill, speaking of which...

...started on high and ended on bottom. Yes STR had a biggest change of the outlook of the team and the results, and only a couple of first races next year will show their capacity. They have seemingly put their success on gamble with Honda and two inexperienced drivers.

Reanult seems to be on the right way up, but the noisy celebrations in form of the exploding engines don't seem the right way to celebrate. Good to see Alain Prost in the paddock, tough.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:49 pm 
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What was pleasing was that on good circuits that promote racing, the fears about this season's cars proved to be unfounded.

The racing on circuits like Sochi and Abu Dhabi was terrible and the sooner they get booted from the calendar the better.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:09 am 
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The season proved what I feared; that the decision to massively increase the amount of downforce improved the racing by the amount forecast: 0.0%. Whoever came up with that idea? Liberty?
The FIA should be thinking about the formula itself, not about lap times.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:23 am 
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Fiki wrote:
The season proved what I feared; that the decision to massively increase the amount of downforce improved the racing by the amount forecast: 0.0%. Whoever came up with that idea? Liberty?
The FIA should be thinking about the formula itself, not about lap times.

I don't agree. The formula was improved this year, because it restored something that had been missing: the awe of the speed. If all the track records are a decade old and the cars are barely faster than Le Mans, something is wrong. Yes, the cars need to be able to race more closely, but the speed is also intrinsically important to F1.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:37 am 
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Fiki wrote:
The season proved what I feared; that the decision to massively increase the amount of downforce improved the racing by the amount forecast: 0.0%. Whoever came up with that idea? Liberty?
The FIA should be thinking about the formula itself, not about lap times.

But fast lap times is surely part of the essence of F1? It's already a bit of a joke that despite spending billions in the interim the cars are barely faster than they were in 2004. You might ask what the point of all the development has been?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:10 am 
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I don't see the lack of 'racing' as an issue and I was very with this years cars.

For me, F1 has never been about overtakes, it's about getting your car round track as fast as possible. I watch formula e for exciting wheel to wheel and nose to tail racing, this has never been a massive part of F1.

I was happy to see that the engines are finally better and that we can now see what is possible with them and I hope we can see more improvements in the coming years. What I don't like is that so much money has been pumped into developing them and that cost has been passed down to the customers, now we are seeing that they want to change the formula again just when costs should start being reduced and the lower teams should be able to not pay as much for them and have extra money to develop their cars. But then again this is F1, so I doubt the manufacturers would lower the price of the engines even if their own R&D coats drop a bit!

My biggest issue with F1 is still DRS, I just don't see the point in it unless it can be used at any point at the drivers discretion like McLaren's original f-duct.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:16 am 
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My overall takeaway is that this year has been a step in the right direction in terms of the cars on track and the fan engagement around the sport (F1 live, social media etc.). Still a way to go but I’m hopeful for the future of F1.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:48 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
RBR shows flashes of speed in certain races, just to loose that altogether in the following race. Strange thing. Do they have something up their sleeve that convinced Verstappen to sign a multi year contact with them?

HAAS was a mixed bag, to which their drivers contributed perfectly. Their car does not have any livery, in fact, it's a denial of a livery, but at times they had good races. Somehow, toward the end of the year, they lost the speed like a bull up the hill, speaking of which...


Verstappen didn't have a wealth of options. Ferrari are locked in with Vettel, Mercedes with Hamilton, & McLaren are even more uncertain than RBR.

At the end of this contract, Alonso will be 39, Hamilton 35, Vettel 33 & D-Ric (who in his head he'll already have beaten by then) 31.

Max will be 23.

He has a long career ahead of him, and he could have his pick of seats if things fall in to the right place for him. Certainly he looks like the go-to guy for the next superstar, with people like Sainz & Ocon keeping him honest.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:41 pm 
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One thought I have is that Vettel used to have the reputation of ''never crumbling under pressure'' and Hamilton used to have the reputation of ''crumbling under presssure''. Do people still think this way after this season when we have had probably the closest season in terms of Vettel and Hamilton having the most equal cars?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:03 pm 
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Warheart01 wrote:
One thought I have is that Vettel used to have the reputation of ''never crumbling under pressure'' and Hamilton used to have the reputation of ''crumbling under presssure''. Do people still think this way after this season when we have had probably the closest season in terms of Vettel and Hamilton having the most equal cars?

I respect your opinion but beg to differ. Ferrari looked good only in some first 5-6 races. Than they lost the development war. Mercedes was unbeatable in most races, and with some margin.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
The season proved what I feared; that the decision to massively increase the amount of downforce improved the racing by the amount forecast: 0.0%. Whoever came up with that idea? Liberty?
The FIA should be thinking about the formula itself, not about lap times.

Rather depressingly the impact on the quality of the racing wasn't even considered when the current regulations were devised, they were only focusing on improving lap times because that was considered the leading reason for the drop in the TV audience. Pat Symonds admitted as much in an interview last year. Charlie Whiting then declared that if overtaking did become more difficult then they could improve things by making the DRS more effective. It really shows how hideously out of touch they all are with the fans.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Ferrari probably started the season ahead, but once Mercedes got to grip with the new regulations, they were the car to have on most circuits. They ultimately won the development war.

Closer season, I'd struggle to say dominant, but Mercedes were the clear number 1 outfit. Not so much on race pace, but the advantage was telling in qualifying.

Unfortunately, I forecast a continuation of where we left off next season. I don't think it will appear so close.

My other conclusion from this year is the confirmation that Bottas is comfortably a tier 2 driver. He doesn't have the cutting edge, mental edge or on demand pace that a tier 1 driver has. He is a significant downgrade on Rosberg (Whom I'd rate as tier 1.5, and tier 1 on his day). Hamilton has bossed him and is now #1 driver and team harmony is better.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:25 pm 
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j man wrote:
Fiki wrote:
The season proved what I feared; that the decision to massively increase the amount of downforce improved the racing by the amount forecast: 0.0%. Whoever came up with that idea? Liberty?
The FIA should be thinking about the formula itself, not about lap times.

Rather depressingly the impact on the quality of the racing wasn't even considered when the current regulations were devised, they were only focusing on improving lap times because that was considered the leading reason for the drop in the TV audience. Pat Symonds admitted as much in an interview last year. Charlie Whiting then declared that if overtaking did become more difficult then they could improve things by making the DRS more effective. It really shows how hideously out of touch they all are with the fans.
Perhaps they were right. Zoue's and Exediron's replies seem to agree with the plan that was put into place. I have never been interested in the absolute laptime numbers.

But if people were happy with this season, that is fine by me. I just believe a more interesting formula is possible, possibly one that would allow more privateer teams to be competitive.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:34 pm 
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I am looking back and wondering if a fight between 2 different makes of car is any better than 2 drivers in the same car.

I am thinking there is nothing in it as long as the drivers are not under orders. Last year, with Hamilton v Rosberg, with pop ups from the Ferrari and RBR was equally as good as a one Merc car v one Ferrari car, until it faded with about 5 to go.

Had it been 2 merc v 2 Ferrari v 2 RBR it would be far better. But one car v one car it has been no different, which surprises me.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:45 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
j man wrote:
Fiki wrote:
The season proved what I feared; that the decision to massively increase the amount of downforce improved the racing by the amount forecast: 0.0%. Whoever came up with that idea? Liberty?
The FIA should be thinking about the formula itself, not about lap times.

Rather depressingly the impact on the quality of the racing wasn't even considered when the current regulations were devised, they were only focusing on improving lap times because that was considered the leading reason for the drop in the TV audience. Pat Symonds admitted as much in an interview last year. Charlie Whiting then declared that if overtaking did become more difficult then they could improve things by making the DRS more effective. It really shows how hideously out of touch they all are with the fans.
Perhaps they were right. Zoue's and Exediron's replies seem to agree with the plan that was put into place. I have never been interested in the absolute laptime numbers.

But if people were happy with this season, that is fine by me. I just believe a more interesting formula is possible, possibly one that would allow more privateer teams to be competitive.

I agree, I'm not especially concerned with absolute laptimes as long as the racing is good and there is close competition between the different teams. These should have been higher priority.

Personally I do think this season has been the best of the hybrid era, though that's more down to Mercedes actually having some competition and Pirelli producing tyres that can be pushed during races rather than watching the drivers trundle round at 90%. Sadly on the latter point I feel we'll be reverting back to comedy tyres next year.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:44 am 
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moby wrote:
I am looking back and wondering if a fight between 2 different makes of car is any better than 2 drivers in the same car.

I am thinking there is nothing in it as long as the drivers are not under orders. Last year, with Hamilton v Rosberg, with pop ups from the Ferrari and RBR was equally as good as a one Merc car v one Ferrari car, until it faded with about 5 to go.

Had it been 2 merc v 2 Ferrari v 2 RBR it would be far better. But one car v one car it has been no different, which surprises me.


I think the only difference it makes is engaging fans of other drivers / teams. The Ferrari fans will wake up to a Vettel v Hamilton battle, whereas they wouldn't for a Rosberg v Hamilton battle.

I agree overall though, as an F1 fan I didn't find it any more exciting.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:13 am 
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Badgeronimous wrote:
Ferrari probably started the season ahead, but once Mercedes got to grip with the new regulations, they were the car to have on most circuits. They ultimately won the development war.

Closer season, I'd struggle to say dominant, but Mercedes were the clear number 1 outfit. Not so much on race pace, but the advantage was telling in qualifying.

Unfortunately, I forecast a continuation of where we left off next season. I don't think it will appear so close.

My other conclusion from this year is the confirmation that Bottas is comfortably a tier 2 driver. He doesn't have the cutting edge, mental edge or on demand pace that a tier 1 driver has. He is a significant downgrade on Rosberg (Whom I'd rate as tier 1.5, and tier 1 on his day). Hamilton has bossed him and is now #1 driver and team harmony is better.


That's pretty much how I see it. Maybe with Rosberg, the Mercedes would have been developed faster as they would have had two drivers who knew they car better and who were both starting from a high level of knowledge - plus they had both developed the car in previous years. Mercedes had a No. 1 driver in all but name from the start of the year.

Vettel has not had a reputation as a great race driver - more a great qualifying driver, and he showed that later in the year when the Mercedes issues were sorted.

I've only watched a couple of races live this year and don't feel I've missed much. I don't care about lap times. I'm sure they could build a robot car that could completely obliterate all of the lap times in F1. I'd rather see several of the top drivers in the world racing each other. I'm interested in technical developments, but in F1, I think they should be aimed at making the racing better, not saving fuel, or reducing the lap times, or finding loopholes in how the rules were written.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:51 pm 
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The Renault team began to show signs of their ambition. They only overtook Torro Rosso on the last race, but they had been more competitive for some time. Had they started the season with their current driver lineup then they would have been challenging Williams.

Raikkonen continued his decline. Abu Dhabi laid it bare, 20 odd seconds behind Vettel when both had pretty much clear races. They could be paying far less for a youbg prospect and getting about the same results.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:01 pm 
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Last season without the Halo, the cars will look rubbish. Imagine people who are not big fans seeing those cars on the news etc, they are laughable. The new engines put me off going to F1 again, now with the halo it has cemented my decision.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:25 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Last season without the Halo, the cars will look rubbish. Imagine people who are not big fans seeing those cars on the news etc, they are laughable. The new engines put me off going to F1 again, now with the halo it has cemented my decision.


Next year will come as quite a shock to those who arent following this too deeply.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:54 pm 
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just to add that it seemed to go unnoticed that Kimi just managed to pip Ricciardo to 4th place in the final race. A bit of luck involved to save some face there!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:07 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
just to add that it seemed to go unnoticed that Kimi just managed to pip Ricciardo to 4th place in the final race. A bit of luck involved to save some face there!

But as Dan said when interviewed by Buxton on NBC "With the car he had it shouldn't have been close."

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:04 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
just to add that it seemed to go unnoticed that Kimi just managed to pip Ricciardo to 4th place in the final race. A bit of luck involved to save some face there!


Ricciardo only scored 8 points in the last 4 races due to reliability.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:58 pm 
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^^which is why I said a bit of luck was involved!


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