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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:13 pm 
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An emotional day for Danica Patrick right before the final race of the season. Patrick will announce her retirement from racing right after the 102nd running of the Indy 500. She will also run the Daytona 500 1 last time as well. Pressure mounted when she was dropped from the 2018 grid. But she came to terms with her career. But she left a great mark in motorsports.

SEE YOU AT INDY, DANICA!!!

AND HAVE A HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2017/ ... e-driving/


Last edited by Placid on Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:37 am 
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So basically she was sacked?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:16 pm 
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"MOTHER TIME MUST BE CALLING FOR HER. " - Is that necessary to post like that?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:30 pm 
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My apologies.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:16 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
So basically she was sacked?

Basically she's retiring. It doesn't matter whether she had a drive available in Nascar next season or not, she's still retiring from racing. Same as Massa.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:24 pm 
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No need to paint it in a negative light. She had a long career in some pretty high level motor sports series. She was never someone who didn't belong in the series she was in. She was never the best either but that shouldn't be used against her. If anything, she proved that it was possible for a woman to be competitive even at the highest levels of motor sport. She won a race in the Indy Car series and set pole positions in both series so I think she can walk away with her head held high and certainly she has made a boatload of cash in endorsements.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:33 pm 
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Placid wrote:
My apologies.


Its cool :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:45 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
No need to paint it in a negative light. She had a long career in some pretty high level motor sports series. She was never someone who didn't belong in the series she was in. She was never the best either but that shouldn't be used against her. If anything, she proved that it was possible for a woman to be competitive even at the highest levels of motor sport. She won a race in the Indy Car series and set pole positions in both series so I think she can walk away with her head held high and certainly she has made a boatload of cash in endorsements.

:thumbup:

Indeed... and she also generated a "boatload of cash" for both INDYcars and NASCAR raciing. Danica stepped into a couple of pretty tough series, fought some pretty tough biases, indeed did experience success that goes well beyond win/loss records. Good for her!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:11 am 
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The only thing about Danica is that while she wasn’t terrible, I feel as though she was afforded more opportunities because she’s not a man and was decent. Had there been other drivers who were as inconsistent as she’s been they’d have likely found themselves without a ride far sooner. On days when she was on she was excellent but those were far too few and far in between.

Her endorsements were also the product of her situation more so than it was her talent because there are far more male drivers who did far better throughout their careers and they didn’t garner anywhere near the attention she did just because she’s a woman.

Congrats on a long career I guess but I just wish she provided more moments like the day she won because that was a moment that was superb for Motorsport, but far more important for women in Motorsport. When the time comes that a female driver produces top results consistently that person will create far more opportunities for a great many more people.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:08 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
The only thing about Danica is that while she wasn’t terrible, I feel as though she was afforded more opportunities because she’s not a man and was decent. Had there been other drivers who were as inconsistent as she’s been they’d have likely found themselves without a ride far sooner. On days when she was on she was excellent but those were far too few and far in between.

Her endorsements were also the product of her situation more so than it was her talent because there are far more male drivers who did far better throughout their careers and they didn’t garner anywhere near the attention she did just because she’s a woman.

Congrats on a long career I guess but I just wish she provided more moments like the day she won because that was a moment that was superb for Motorsport, but far more important for women in Motorsport. When the time comes that a female driver produces top results consistently that person will create far more opportunities for a great many more people.


She isn't anything special but she has at least had a respectable career and isn't an embarrassment like Jorda or Wolff.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:41 pm 
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There been plenty of men who only had a ride because of who they knew or who they were related to that had the money and never achieved anything more than making up the numbers. Danica did well more than that and saying that she was only there because she's a woman is proof of the bias that she and any other female driver has to face trying to break into motorsports.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:20 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
There been plenty of men who only had a ride because of who they knew or who they were related to that had the money and never achieved anything more than making up the numbers. Danica did well more than that and saying that she was only there because she's a woman is proof of the bias that she and any other female driver has to face trying to break into motorsports.

I don't think that's true. Look at the criticism Stroll gets for the fact that he's only in F1 because his daddy paid for him to be there. Or Bruno Senna for trading on the family name. It's legitimate to question credentials if one feels that the driver is where they are for reasons other than their driving prowess.

Fact is Patrick's fame is disproportionate to her abilities as a driver. In a career spanning some 18 years she has managed a single win, yet outside the USA she's arguably more famous than almost another driver in North America, gaining sponsorship and endorsements that many other drivers can only dream of. As of June 2017, she was allegedly worth $60m, which is pretty good, considering her actual driving results. I'm finding myself hard pressed to consider her as someone facing negative bias

None of the above is me trying to discredit her: heck, I'd sure use my looks and sex (if anyone was mad enough to pay for it!) if it meant I'd have a dram retirement and never have any financial worries ever again. But I don't think the bias card is appropriate in her case, not negatively, anyway


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
There been plenty of men who only had a ride because of who they knew or who they were related to that had the money and never achieved anything more than making up the numbers. Danica did well more than that and saying that she was only there because she's a woman is proof of the bias that she and any other female driver has to face trying to break into motorsports.

I don't think that's true. Look at the criticism Stroll gets for the fact that he's only in F1 because his daddy paid for him to be there. Or Bruno Senna for trading on the family name. It's legitimate to question credentials if one feels that the driver is where they are for reasons other than their driving prowess.

Fact is Patrick's fame is disproportionate to her abilities as a driver. In a career spanning some 18 years she has managed a single win, yet outside the USA she's arguably more famous than almost another driver in North America, gaining sponsorship and endorsements that many other drivers can only dream of. As of June 2017, she was allegedly worth $60m, which is pretty good, considering her actual driving results. I'm finding myself hard pressed to consider her as someone facing negative bias

None of the above is me trying to discredit her: heck, I'd sure use my looks and sex (if anyone was mad enough to pay for it!) if it meant I'd have a dram retirement and never have any financial worries ever again. But I don't think the bias card is appropriate in her case, not negatively, anyway


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:13 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
There been plenty of men who only had a ride because of who they knew or who they were related to that had the money and never achieved anything more than making up the numbers. Danica did well more than that and saying that she was only there because she's a woman is proof of the bias that she and any other female driver has to face trying to break into motorsports.

I believe she earned what she did because she was a woman.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:44 am 
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pokerman wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
There been plenty of men who only had a ride because of who they knew or who they were related to that had the money and never achieved anything more than making up the numbers. Danica did well more than that and saying that she was only there because she's a woman is proof of the bias that she and any other female driver has to face trying to break into motorsports.

I believe she earned what she did because she was a woman.

If you mean the money, then yeah, probably. She earned her results because she was a decent driver at the top level, but no more.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:36 am 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
There been plenty of men who only had a ride because of who they knew or who they were related to that had the money and never achieved anything more than making up the numbers. Danica did well more than that and saying that she was only there because she's a woman is proof of the bias that she and any other female driver has to face trying to break into motorsports.

I believe she earned what she did because she was a woman.

If you mean the money, then yeah, probably. She earned her results because she was a decent driver at the top level, but no more.

Yes I mean the sponsorship

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:58 am 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
There been plenty of men who only had a ride because of who they knew or who they were related to that had the money and never achieved anything more than making up the numbers. Danica did well more than that and saying that she was only there because she's a woman is proof of the bias that she and any other female driver has to face trying to break into motorsports.

I believe she earned what she did because she was a woman.

If you mean the money, then yeah, probably. She earned her results because she was a decent driver at the top level, but no more.


And what is wrong with being a "decent driver at the top level"? Most of us can only dream of being decent in what we do at the "top level".

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:27 am 
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Blake wrote:
Exediron wrote:
If you mean the money, then yeah, probably. She earned her results because she was a decent driver at the top level, but no more.

And what is wrong with being a "decent driver at the top level"? Most of us can only dream of being decent in what we do at the "top level".

Nothing at all, which is why I put it like that. I was accepting that she earned (far) more money than a male driver of equivalent ability probably would have, but pointing out that she wasn't completely out of her depth at the top, just not up there with the very best. I think it's a fair assessment of her career.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:46 am 
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Patrick proves to me that if there was a female good enough to be in F1, they'd be in F1. A sponsors PR dream! I don't believe there is a bias against women getting into F1.

Patrick was good enough to hold her own in the top tier of US motorsport, but I agree that financially and opportunity wise, she probably did a lot better than a male of equivalent talent. However fair play to her, she is a role model and stayed in the sport on merit.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:34 pm 
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I disagree because Danica had an opportunity to come to F1 and she'd have a difficult time challenging guys whom you'd think outta be burned at the stake according to some folks' opinions of them. All a female driver would have to do is be good enough to make it inside the 107% rule and be extremely attractive and she could get the nod. But that would be based less on talent and more on looks and sex appeal because those would allow the sport to be sold to a broader audience. And with the sport now being owned by an American company I could see that happening more easily than at any other time in the history of the sport.

Sadly that's the reality of the world, but I'd also say there is currently one woman who might possibly be good enough to at least be given a shot in an F1 car but for some reason she has not been given an opportunity, and the one woman who has been at least paraded around is not a very good driver, but is pretty good looking. The one who came closest to driving in a race was the late Maria DeVillota and her opportunity came to a tragic end.

Wolff was afforded perhaps the greatest opportunity because of who she's married to and Williams gave her more seat time than any other female driver and she just wasn't good enough, but one has to wonder if she was extremely attractive, would serious consideration be given to letting her drive in a race?

The only thing we can know for certain is that with so few seat available in the world of professional racing, The vast majority of excellent male drivers don't even get an opportunity, and with staggeringly minuscule number women competing in motorsport it's extremely difficult to find one that is good enough to earn a spot in the upper echelons of motorsport. And then there's the chauvinist hurdle to contend with which makes it unnecessarily more difficult for no reason other than old world mentality.

I'd welcome a female driver like I would any other male drivers who can drive in a way to leave me shaking my head in disbelief of their shear raw talent, and if she happens to be hot, then bonus for us all!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:29 pm 
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The world's most famous average driver.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:39 pm 
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BackwardsInFlames wrote:
The world's most famous average driver.


and you are famous for what?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:09 pm 
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Blake wrote:
BackwardsInFlames wrote:
The world's most famous average driver.


and you are famous for what?

Nothing, what's your point?

She is not famous for her driving talent. She's famous for some GoDaddy ads and having a bit of an attitude.

I keep an eye on American motorsport coverage and this has been big news. If say, AJ Allmendinger retired tomorrow (similar career path from open wheel to NASCAR, probably a better driver to be honest), would there be anywhere near the level of coverage?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:47 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Sadly that's the reality of the world, but I'd also say there is currently one woman who might possibly be good enough to at least be given a shot in an F1 car but for some reason she has not been given an opportunity, and the one woman who has been at least paraded around is not a very good driver, but is pretty good looking. The one who came closest to driving in a race was the late Maria DeVillota and her opportunity came to a tragic end.


Who?

As for Maria, she was nowhere near an F1 race, there was nothing of any credibility in her junior career.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:11 am 
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BackwardsInFlames wrote:
Nothing, what's your point?

She is not famous for her driving talent. She's famous for some GoDaddy ads and having a bit of an attitude.

I keep an eye on American motorsport coverage and this has been big news. If say, AJ Allmendinger retired tomorrow (similar career path from open wheel to NASCAR, probably a better driver to be honest), would there be anywhere near the level of coverage?

Indeed does her fame and fortune actual correlate to her results, in 5 years of NASCAR her highest series placing was 24th?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:20 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Indeed does her fame and fortune actual correlate to her results, in 5 years of NASCAR her highest series placing was 24th?

Her results in NASCAR have been poor. But she was much better in IndyCar, where her highest placing was 5th over a season, beating a number of former champions such as Kanaas and Wheldon in the process.

Nobody's trying to claim she was a great driver, but the claims that she never belonged at the highest level are wrong. She belonged, she just wasn't at the top end of that level.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:37 am 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Indeed does her fame and fortune actual correlate to her results, in 5 years of NASCAR her highest series placing was 24th?

Her results in NASCAR have been poor. But she was much better in IndyCar, where her highest placing was 5th over a season, beating a number of former champions such as Kanaas and Wheldon in the process.

Nobody's trying to claim she was a great driver, but the claims that she never belonged at the highest level are wrong. She belonged, she just wasn't at the top end of that level.

In Indycar she was competitive on ovals but poor on road courses, it's maybe coincidental that she went to NASCAR after Indycar started racing more so on road courses, probably more financial?

Anyway the point being made was that her stardom out weighed her actual results.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:58 am 
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pokerman wrote:
In Indycar she was competitive on ovals but poor on road courses, it's maybe coincidental that she went to NASCAR after Indycar started racing more so on road courses, probably more financial?

Anyway the point being made was that her stardom out weighed her actual results.


That POINT can be made of many a driver, athlete, celebrity, politician...

Danica was/is better on ovals than on road courses... so what? I have no doubt that there are drivers who are better on road courses than ovals.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:09 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Indeed does her fame and fortune actual correlate to her results, in 5 years of NASCAR her highest series placing was 24th?

Her results in NASCAR have been poor. But she was much better in IndyCar, where her highest placing was 5th over a season, beating a number of former champions such as Kanaas and Wheldon in the process.

Nobody's trying to claim she was a great driver, but the claims that she never belonged at the highest level are wrong. She belonged, she just wasn't at the top end of that level.

In Indycar she was competitive on ovals but poor on road courses, it's maybe coincidental that she went to NASCAR after Indycar started racing more so on road courses, probably more financial?

Anyway the point being made was that her stardom out weighed her actual results.

She certainly earned more money and fame than most drivers with her results, true. Whether you consider that her over-earning or others under-earning is a matter of opinion, but I'd be inclined to say that yes, her stardom did outweigh her results.

But so what? It's true for other drivers as well. She did the most with what she had, and her legacy with regards to making the sport (and motorsport in general) more visible and accessible to female drivers will only be known well in the future. But even if all she achieved is what she achieved, I don't see anything to be ashamed of.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:26 am 
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Will this give Boris Said more gainful employment ;)

Just kidding....but


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:02 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
In Indycar she was competitive on ovals but poor on road courses, it's maybe coincidental that she went to NASCAR after Indycar started racing more so on road courses, probably more financial?

Anyway the point being made was that her stardom out weighed her actual results.


That POINT can be made of many a driver, athlete, celebrity, politician...

Danica was/is better on ovals than on road courses... so what? I have no doubt that there are drivers who are better on road courses than ovals.

My only concern is with drivers, which are these drivers of average ability and average results that are held as a superstar of the sport?

The NASCAR switch I was musing that it coincided with her being less competitive in Indycar, from what I can gather her career record is of 384 races competed in with just the one win and she became a highly paid superstar.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:06 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Indeed does her fame and fortune actual correlate to her results, in 5 years of NASCAR her highest series placing was 24th?

Her results in NASCAR have been poor. But she was much better in IndyCar, where her highest placing was 5th over a season, beating a number of former champions such as Kanaas and Wheldon in the process.

Nobody's trying to claim she was a great driver, but the claims that she never belonged at the highest level are wrong. She belonged, she just wasn't at the top end of that level.

In Indycar she was competitive on ovals but poor on road courses, it's maybe coincidental that she went to NASCAR after Indycar started racing more so on road courses, probably more financial?

Anyway the point being made was that her stardom out weighed her actual results.

She certainly earned more money and fame than most drivers with her results, true. Whether you consider that her over-earning or others under-earning is a matter of opinion, but I'd be inclined to say that yes, her stardom did outweigh her results.

But so what? It's true for other drivers as well. She did the most with what she had, and her legacy with regards to making the sport (and motorsport in general) more visible and accessible to female drivers will only be known well in the future. But even if all she achieved is what she achieved, I don't see anything to be ashamed of.

If this encouraged more women to give it a go then that would be a positive thing I just didn't like the over hyping.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:51 pm 
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BackwardsInFlames wrote:
Blake wrote:
BackwardsInFlames wrote:
The world's most famous average driver.


and you are famous for what?

Nothing, what's your point?

She is not famous for her driving talent. She's famous for some GoDaddy ads and having a bit of an attitude.

I keep an eye on American motorsport coverage and this has been big news. If say, AJ Allmendinger retired tomorrow (similar career path from open wheel to NASCAR, probably a better driver to be honest), would there be anywhere near the level of coverage?

Spor on!!! She overcame a lot of biases in the sport but also received much better rides in Indycar and Nascar and greater sponsorship than any young man with similar talents and charisma woulld have gotten.

She may have opened the way for a genuine championship caliber female driver in Indycar and Nascar much the way that Shirley Muldowney did for Angelle Sampey, Erica Enders, and Britany Force in NHRA. We still haven't seen an up and comong female talent in eather series that can regularly challenge for wins and championships.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:08 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:53 pm
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Location: Canada
Glen C. wrote:
Will this give Boris Said more gainful employment ;)

Just kidding....but

Now that is FUNNY!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:58 pm 
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I haven't followed alot of nascar until this year. (As a brit. Im enjoying the series alot and watching back old races and highlights since only August)

From what I've seen if danica in nascar. She does seem to be dumped alot and probably contributed to being at the back end of the mid pack.
Also from what I have seen from this year's racing results haven't gone well for the #10 due too a gherkin poor Stewart hass car and the Ford's are lagging quiet a distance behind the Toyotas.


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