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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:00 pm 
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I always look forward to MasterRacer's latest wet dream about Hamilton.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:40 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
MasterRacer wrote:
lamo wrote:
MasterRacer wrote:
Hamilton is already on his final warning after his antics in the final race of last season. If they order him to help Val, he'll help Val. That is, unless he wants to join Fernando at the back of the grid from next year.


:lol: Final warning

I think that went out the window the day Nico resigned. Hamilton went from the team being a little annoyed at him immediately after AD to basically bending over backwards for him a few days later once the retirement was announced. To think, without Hamilton in the Mercedes this year - Vettel likely would have secured WDC number 5.


My understanding is the final warning still stands, which is probably why Hamilton has been on his best behavior this year.

I also don't think Mercedes need Hamilton. Max or Dan could both do the job given that beast of a car. Seb only lost because of a lot bad luck not the brilliance of Hamilton.


So how do Mercedes get Ricciardo or Verstappen after they fire Hamilton for winning in Brazil? They both have contracts and Red Bull are never going to let either walk from next season.


Both money and an unhappy driver talks. You don't keep an unhappy sportsman around in any team.

If Hamilton left Mercedes, other drivers would be falling over themselves to get that seat. Red Bull would have to give way eventually and let one of their drivers leave (with a large payment to release them for sure).


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
MasterRacer wrote:
lamo wrote:
MasterRacer wrote:
Hamilton is already on his final warning after his antics in the final race of last season. If they order him to help Val, he'll help Val. That is, unless he wants to join Fernando at the back of the grid from next year.


:lol: Final warning

I think that went out the window the day Nico resigned. Hamilton went from the team being a little annoyed at him immediately after AD to basically bending over backwards for him a few days later once the retirement was announced. To think, without Hamilton in the Mercedes this year - Vettel likely would have secured WDC number 5.


My understanding is the final warning still stands, which is probably why Hamilton has been on his best behavior this year.

I also don't think Mercedes need Hamilton. Max or Dan could both do the job given that beast of a car. Seb only lost because of a lot bad luck not the brilliance of Hamilton.


The final warning related to LH and NR and the behaviour between them. Why would you think it still existed? Do you have a link?

Regarding Mercedes and Hamilton if you had a choice between a 4 times world champion and 2 very good drivers who do you think they would choose?


It related to their conduct within the team and damaging brand Mercedes. It wasn't just a dispute between two drivers.

The second part of your question - well the 4 times world champion is getting old now. I think if they had an easy option of swapping Hamilton for Max, with no financial cost, they would do it in a heartbeat. I know I would if I was team owner.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:15 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
MasterRacer wrote:
lamo wrote:
MasterRacer wrote:
Hamilton is already on his final warning after his antics in the final race of last season. If they order him to help Val, he'll help Val. That is, unless he wants to join Fernando at the back of the grid from next year.


:lol: Final warning

I think that went out the window the day Nico resigned. Hamilton went from the team being a little annoyed at him immediately after AD to basically bending over backwards for him a few days later once the retirement was announced. To think, without Hamilton in the Mercedes this year - Vettel likely would have secured WDC number 5.


My understanding is the final warning still stands, which is probably why Hamilton has been on his best behavior this year.

I also don't think Mercedes need Hamilton. Max or Dan could both do the job given that beast of a car. Seb only lost because of a lot bad luck not the brilliance of Hamilton.


The final warning related to LH and NR and the behaviour between them. Why would you think it still existed? Do you have a link?

Regarding Mercedes and Hamilton if you had a choice between a 4 times world champion and 2 very good drivers who do you think they would choose?


Fernando Alonso is the only driver I can see coming open in the next year or two who has serious championship potential and might work as a replacement for Lewis. Fernando is also older than Lewis and a lot closer to retirement. Don't know why Mercedes would go with anyone but Lewis as primary driver.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:34 pm 
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Regarding team orders, there is a big difference between letting a faster driver through, and a faster driver slowing down to let the slower car past - not even sure Mercedes would go there to be honest?

If it is even an option come the race. Looks like nothing between the top teams for qualifying so would imagine there is a good chance there will be cars between the two Mercedes. Happy if Bottas can proove me wrong though.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Just hope that if Lewis does let Valtteri through he does not do it like Michael let Ruebens through in the 2002 US GP. Handing over the win right at the line sort of spit in the eye of all of the fans.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:04 pm 
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MasterRacer wrote:
lamo wrote:
MasterRacer wrote:
Hamilton is already on his final warning after his antics in the final race of last season. If they order him to help Val, he'll help Val. That is, unless he wants to join Fernando at the back of the grid from next year.


:lol: Final warning

I think that went out the window the day Nico resigned. Hamilton went from the team being a little annoyed at him immediately after AD to basically bending over backwards for him a few days later once the retirement was announced. To think, without Hamilton in the Mercedes this year - Vettel likely would have secured WDC number 5.


My understanding is the final warning still stands, which is probably why Hamilton has been on his best behavior this year.

I also don't think Mercedes need Hamilton. Max or Dan could both do the job given that beast of a car. Seb only lost because of a lot bad luck not the brilliance of Hamilton.


Vettel rather lost because of his own driving errors.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:01 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
Fantaribo wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Two races to go, and IMO the real battle is now between Bottas and Vettel. Bottas has closed the gap to second place to just 15 points. And I am very sure that Mercedes would love to sweep everything. Both drivers finish 1 - 2 in the WDC and winning the WCC.

So after the many times Bottas has been asked to support Hamilton, will Hamilton repay the favor?

Have you forgotten what Hamilton did in Hungary?


What Hamilton did was to give the position back to Bottas, nothing more


So no problem then; Hamilton can repay the favour. He can let Bottas through, and on the last lap Bottas can give the place back to Hamilton, nothing more.

If Hamilton lets him though on that condition, that seems perfectly reasonable

In this scenario is Hamilton holding Bottas up in the first place?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:11 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Two races to go, and IMO the real battle is now between Bottas and Vettel. Bottas has closed the gap to second place to just 15 points. And I am very sure that Mercedes would love to sweep everything. Both drivers finish 1 - 2 in the WDC and winning the WCC.

So after the many times Bottas has been asked to support Hamilton, will Hamilton repay the favor?

I don't think it matters. If Vettel runs clean, Bottas is nowhere near his pace.


It would be a stupid thing to do. Vettel has been better than Bottas by some margin this season. On current form, even a Hamilton on mental vacation should be quite a bit up the road from Bottas.

Besides, Hamilton is record chasing. He won't be giving wins up for such little reward.


Oh yea of little faith. One year ago Hamilton displayed a selfish aggression at Abu Dhabi. But for this year, IMO Hamilton has improved drastically and I believe those days are over. And consider this possibility. If Hamilton does not play according to the Mercedes game plan, his days of chasing records may be flushed down the toilet. He does have to think about the future.

Little reward? For all of the manufacturers, Formula One is just part of their advertising budget. Mercedes have probably spent over 350 million dollars in just this year. As a fan you may not see the forest because of the trees, but for such expenditures it is a big thing for Mercedes. The ideal advertising message is " we came, we kicked butt". And securing second place in the WDC completes that statement. It would make the advertising executives, the people who approve the racing budget, very, very happy.

You do reallse that Bottas has to be fast enough in the first place to win the race or do you expect Hamilton to push him around the track?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:13 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Two races to go, and IMO the real battle is now between Bottas and Vettel. Bottas has closed the gap to second place to just 15 points. And I am very sure that Mercedes would love to sweep everything. Both drivers finish 1 - 2 in the WDC and winning the WCC.

So after the many times Bottas has been asked to support Hamilton, will Hamilton repay the favor?

I don't think it matters. If Vettel runs clean, Bottas is nowhere near his pace.


It would be a stupid thing to do. Vettel has been better than Bottas by some margin this season. On current form, even a Hamilton on mental vacation should be quite a bit up the road from Bottas.

Besides, Hamilton is record chasing. He won't be giving wins up for such little reward.


Oh yea of little faith. One year ago Hamilton displayed a selfish aggression at Abu Dhabi. But for this year, IMO Hamilton has improved drastically and I believe those days are over. And consider this possibility. If Hamilton does not play according to the Mercedes game plan, his days of chasing records may be flushed down the toilet. He does have to think about the future.

Little reward? For all of the manufacturers, Formula One is just part of their advertising budget. Mercedes have probably spent over 350 million dollars in just this year. As a fan you may not see the forest because of the trees, but for such expenditures it is a big thing for Mercedes. The ideal advertising message is " we came, we kicked butt". And securing second place in the WDC completes that statement. It would make the advertising executives, the people who approve the racing budget, very, very happy.

This is up there among the most ridiculous things I've heard top to bottom. Selfish aggression? You mean trying to win the championship at a time in which both the WDC, WCC and a 1-2 finish in the standings was already secured for Mercedes? Really? And exactly how you calculate that there is a significant boost to the brand by Bottas finishing second in the standings is beyond me. I think it makes almost no difference whatsoever considering, once again, that they have already secured the WDC and WCC. From a marketing perspective it is almost certainly best for them when Hamilton wins, simply because he is the more popular of their two drivers and his popularity is strongest in Mercedes' biggest markets (USA, England, etc.). Maybe you'd like for Lewis to hand over wins but I don't think that makes sense to anyone else.

It makes a kind of sense to me. ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:17 pm 
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MasterRacer wrote:
Hamilton is already on his final warning after his antics in the final race of last season. If they order him to help Val, he'll help Val. That is, unless he wants to join Fernando at the back of the grid from next year.

For starters you thinking that Alonso will be at the back of the grid next year shows how much out of touch you may be with reality?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:22 pm 
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What Bottas needs is for Mercedes to tell him exactly where he’s going too slow. It certainly helped rosberg a lot during his time at Mercedes.
I really can’t see Bottas beating Vettel in the next 2 races. Now that some of the pressure is off Vettel, hopefully he can stop hitting other cars....


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:23 pm 
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MasterRacer wrote:
lamo wrote:
MasterRacer wrote:
Hamilton is already on his final warning after his antics in the final race of last season. If they order him to help Val, he'll help Val. That is, unless he wants to join Fernando at the back of the grid from next year.


:lol: Final warning

I think that went out the window the day Nico resigned. Hamilton went from the team being a little annoyed at him immediately after AD to basically bending over backwards for him a few days later once the retirement was announced. To think, without Hamilton in the Mercedes this year - Vettel likely would have secured WDC number 5.


My understanding is the final warning still stands, which is probably why Hamilton has been on his best behavior this year.

I also don't think Mercedes need Hamilton. Max or Dan could both do the job given that beast of a car. Seb only lost because of a lot bad luck not the brilliance of Hamilton.

For you information they actually apologised to Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:31 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
Fantaribo wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Have you forgotten what Hamilton did in Hungary?


What Hamilton did was to give the position back to Bottas, nothing more


So no problem then; Hamilton can repay the favour. He can let Bottas through, and on the last lap Bottas can give the place back to Hamilton, nothing more.

If Hamilton lets him though on that condition, that seems perfectly reasonable

In this scenario is Hamilton holding Bottas up in the first place?

dunno. You'd have to ask the person who created the scenario. But since we are speculating on Hamilton helping Bottas to second place in the WDC, he doesn't need to be holding Bottas up in order to let him through?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:43 am 
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MasterRacer wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
MasterRacer wrote:
lamo wrote:
MasterRacer wrote:
Hamilton is already on his final warning after his antics in the final race of last season. If they order him to help Val, he'll help Val. That is, unless he wants to join Fernando at the back of the grid from next year.


:lol: Final warning

I think that went out the window the day Nico resigned. Hamilton went from the team being a little annoyed at him immediately after AD to basically bending over backwards for him a few days later once the retirement was announced. To think, without Hamilton in the Mercedes this year - Vettel likely would have secured WDC number 5.


My understanding is the final warning still stands, which is probably why Hamilton has been on his best behavior this year.

I also don't think Mercedes need Hamilton. Max or Dan could both do the job given that beast of a car. Seb only lost because of a lot bad luck not the brilliance of Hamilton.


The final warning related to LH and NR and the behaviour between them. Why would you think it still existed? Do you have a link?

Regarding Mercedes and Hamilton if you had a choice between a 4 times world champion and 2 very good drivers who do you think they would choose?


It related to their conduct within the team and damaging brand Mercedes. It wasn't just a dispute between two drivers.

The second part of your question - well the 4 times world champion is getting old now. I think if they had an easy option of swapping Hamilton for Max, with no financial cost, they would do it in a heartbeat. I know I would if I was team owner.


Max Verstappen has been involved in 5 first corner collisions this year. That loses you world championships, just look at Vettel. Max might be quick, but he is still too raw. Vettel so long as he avoided silly incidences himself would have won the WDC this year if Max was in the Mercedes IMO.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:19 am 
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MasterRacer wrote:
It related to their conduct within the team and damaging brand Mercedes. It wasn't just a dispute between two drivers.


I have looked and can find nothing to support your view. It was to do with "their conduct" which ceased when NR left.

MasterRacer wrote:
The second part of your question - well the 4 times world champion is getting old now. I think if they had an easy option of swapping Hamilton for Max, with no financial cost, they would do it in a heartbeat. I know I would if I was team owner.


I find that an odd view, are you suggesting that Alonso for example if he was sitting in a Mercedes wouldn't win the WDC, Schumacher won the WDC aged 31, 32, 33, 34 and 35. Its not just age that wins the WDC its metal approach and temperament, Vettel had the car to do it and failed....but I guess he was too old as well!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:14 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:43 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:

Apparently the excuse for not using grass is because it's hard to keep it neat and tidy when cars stray onto it, honestly who cares it's not like it's an art show.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
Fantaribo wrote:
What Hamilton did was to give the position back to Bottas, nothing more


So no problem then; Hamilton can repay the favour. He can let Bottas through, and on the last lap Bottas can give the place back to Hamilton, nothing more.

If Hamilton lets him though on that condition, that seems perfectly reasonable

In this scenario is Hamilton holding Bottas up in the first place?

dunno. You'd have to ask the person who created the scenario. But since we are speculating on Hamilton helping Bottas to second place in the WDC, he doesn't need to be holding Bottas up in order to let him through?

Well previous scenarios were of Bottas holding Hamilton up, asking Hamilton to give up a race win is ridiculous and I don't believe that's something Mercedes would have done with Bottas earlier in the season either, Hamilton even had to give Bottas' third place back, any other race position with Bottas running directly behind then yes it could happen but you can't expect Hamilton to give away a race win.

Going on further than this I think there is an underlying thing with some posters who have a wish for Hamilton not to win the race going by the certain rhetoric that was being used, 1 win nearer to Schumacher's record also is perhaps not desirable?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Are people listening to this Renault/Toro Rosso story?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:09 pm 
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MasterRacer wrote:
Hamilton is already on his final warning after his antics in the final race of last season. If they order him to help Val, he'll help Val. That is, unless he wants to join Fernando at the back of the grid from next year.


This might be one of the most entertaining pieces of fanfiction I have ever seen. You imagine that Mercedes will fire Lewis Hamilton, a race after sealing his 4th world title?

All this would maybe mean going into a 2018 season that promises to be much closer with a team of Bottas and Ocon. Too much of a gamble.

Also, i'm sure that Mclaren and the ambitious works Renault team would be rather keen on a free agent Hamilton.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:11 pm 
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I know I've moaned about this before, but the Sky practice commentary in pathetic. Can't they talk about this stuff before and after practice?? They are not talking about what is happening on screen at all! Even BBC Radio 5 live seems to be following what is on Sky's screen better. Crofty just waits for something to go wrong and then he starts talking about what is on screen. He'll either talk about that or what curry he had for supper the night before. Karun Chandhok and Ben Edwards on Channel 4 IMO are the best practice commentates by far. They sound so much more interested in what is happening and most of the time, do talk about what is on the screen.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:22 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I know I've moaned about this before, but the Sky practice commentary in pathetic. Can't they talk about this stuff before and after practice?? They are not talking about what is happening on screen at all! Even BBC Radio 5 live seems to be following what is on Sky's screen better. Crofty just waits for something to go wrong and then he starts talking about what is on screen. He'll either talk about that or what curry he had for supper the night before. Karun Chandhok and Ben Edwards on Channel 4 IMO are the best practice commentates by far. They sound so much more interested in what is happening and most of the time, do talk about what is on the screen.

I actually prefer the Sky style of commentary on practice. Ultimately it is only practice and I don't find commenting on every single lap or time improvement necessary or useful. I prefer the mix of background conversation and a slightly more general laid back tone, while still commenting on important/notable action.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:39 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
Are people listening to this Renault/Toro Rosso story?

Yes another Red Bull employee showing how classless they are.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:45 pm 
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McLaren's speed with Alonso is noteworthy. Their car seems legit and a good winter should see them fighting for many podiums.

In other news, Ferrari and Mercedes seem about equal in pace with a very slim edge to Ferrari. Now a slim edge to Mercedes. Good battle in FP3.


Last edited by Invade on Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:47 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I know I've moaned about this before, but the Sky practice commentary in pathetic. Can't they talk about this stuff before and after practice?? They are not talking about what is happening on screen at all! Even BBC Radio 5 live seems to be following what is on Sky's screen better. Crofty just waits for something to go wrong and then he starts talking about what is on screen. He'll either talk about that or what curry he had for supper the night before. Karun Chandhok and Ben Edwards on Channel 4 IMO are the best practice commentates by far. They sound so much more interested in what is happening and most of the time, do talk about what is on the screen.

I guess that's because Crofty basically doesn't know that much.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:49 pm 
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Great FP3 so far. 0.058 seconds cover the top 4 drivers.

Wish it would be so close in qualy. The cooler weather surely is playing a factor in this.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:57 pm 
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RB aren't a happy bunch - they don't look that quick, have been very conservative on their engines and don't appear to have an ideal setup for either driver.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:57 pm 
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Give drivers a track were you can't abuse track limits and it's interesting how it can catch them out.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:25 pm 
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Lance Stroll to take a 5 place grid penalty for gearbox change:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/stroll-gearbox-penalty-williams-fp3-stoppage-brazilian-gp-977144/

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:32 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
Are people listening to this Renault/Toro Rosso story?


Renault claiming that the spare parts for Toro Rosso are at a critical point & it's possible for Toro Rosso to miss Abu Dhabi weekend:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37755.html

Worse to worse situation, they could tale part in FP1, set a few quick laps. Then just go to qualy & then the race. Quite a bizarre situation here.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:45 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
shoot999 wrote:

So no problem then; Hamilton can repay the favour. He can let Bottas through, and on the last lap Bottas can give the place back to Hamilton, nothing more.

If Hamilton lets him though on that condition, that seems perfectly reasonable

In this scenario is Hamilton holding Bottas up in the first place?

dunno. You'd have to ask the person who created the scenario. But since we are speculating on Hamilton helping Bottas to second place in the WDC, he doesn't need to be holding Bottas up in order to let him through?

Well previous scenarios were of Bottas holding Hamilton up, asking Hamilton to give up a race win is ridiculous and I don't believe that's something Mercedes would have done with Bottas earlier in the season either, Hamilton even had to give Bottas' third place back, any other race position with Bottas running directly behind then yes it could happen but you can't expect Hamilton to give away a race win.

Going on further than this I think there is an underlying thing with some posters who have a wish for Hamilton not to win the race going by the certain rhetoric that was being used, 1 win nearer to Schumacher's record also is perhaps not desirable?

I think you're possibly extrapolating quite a lot from what has actually been said.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Unless he has a fair bit up his sleeve, this seems to all but confirm that Hamilton just isn't at the same level (over 1 lap at least) in Brazil, Japan and Austria.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Looks a bit grim 🙄


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:57 pm 
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There's a risk of rain. So all would rush out.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:02 pm 
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.... erm.... WHAT THE HELL?????

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:02 pm 
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oops


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:02 pm 
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Hamilton OUT!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:02 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I know I've moaned about this before, but the Sky practice commentary in pathetic. Can't they talk about this stuff before and after practice?? They are not talking about what is happening on screen at all!


humm, sort of like here........

(NBCSN here in the US has decided to "delay" their qualifying broadcast for the first time this year - which flat sucks - I'm off to F1 timing and scoring where atleast I see the data.............)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:03 pm 
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WOW!!! Hamilton crashed!


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