planetf1.com

It is currently Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:11 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic

Would you support Ferrari or let them go?
Do whatever it takes to keep Ferrari in the sport 25%  25%  [ 15 ]
Meh 22%  22%  [ 13 ]
Let them go, the sport will get along without Ferrari. 53%  53%  [ 31 ]
Total votes : 59
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:13 pm
Posts: 1105
Once again changes are on the horizon, and it seems that once again Ferrari are threatening to leave the sport of the rules are not to their liking.

Ferrari has threatened to leave Formula 1 unless post-2020 conditions are favourable, after the sport's owner, Liberty Media, and governing body, the FIA, outlined proposals for the next power unit cycle.

https://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/360606/ferrari-threatens-to-leave-over-f1-plans/

All of the teams are much closer to understanding what direction the wind is blowing, and what kind of power units there will be in 2020. And based on the article, those conditions are not to Ferrari's liking. So, once again we hear the bleating coming from Marinello.

It is understood that all teams offer input on the rules development process, and that some teams either leave or wither and die because they did not succeed. And yes, Ferrari have been in Formula One since day one. But is that such a special status that you believe you have the power and privilege to force others to your will?

_________________
Only dogs, mothers, and quality undergarments give unconditional support.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 12299
Ferrari are like the boy who cried wolf or the kid in the park who says he will take his ball home if a goal isn't given.

Either way you can't threaten to pull out every time you fear something may not go your way and expect to be taken seriously.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:01 am
Posts: 33
This is hardly new, and it's not really different from any other time Ferrari have threatened to leave. I do recall ten years ago or so, when the Concorde was up for renewal, a large chunk of the teams (not including Ferrari) threatened to leave Formula 1 in an attempt to get a better deal in relative comparison to Ferrari's. It's just posturing, and the most powerful team in the sport are just playing the game. Mercedes will do it at some stage, Red Bull have been trying it for years. At some stage Renault will pipe up too, I'm sure.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:00 pm
Posts: 4506
To a certain extent you're foolish if you're the 800lb gorilla and don't throw your weight around at least a little bit.

However, no team should be held above the sport. There are plenty of racing series that get by without Ferrari being a part of them and F1 could as well. That doesn't mean that there won't be something lost without them because their longevity is the one continuous link to the more romantic past of the sport but succeeding without them is preferable to failing with them.

_________________
{Insert clever sig line here}


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:17 pm
Posts: 410
Location: illinois
new regulations discussed in f1, a team or two threaten to leave. as regular as the sun comes up in the morning


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 7774
I dont think I know enough of the nitty gritty yet, neither do they. I see it as them warning LM that they will not be happy with a spec series and boiler plated teams and cars. Then again, neither will Merc. Renault I do not know about, as they seem willing to supply everyone.

I see where they are going, and it is not the same rand Red Bull pull every couple of years. I did not vote


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:52 am
Posts: 2490
Mercedes and Renault have also expressed concerns so Ferrari isn't exactly alone in voicing this - just that Ferrari appears to be the more vocal of these!

_________________
Where I'm going, I don't need roads


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:59 pm
Posts: 5036
To be fair to Ferrari, even though they threaten to pull out on a fairly regular basis over the years, I don't think I've seen them say this for a good 5 years or so.

I hope that it is just the boy crying wolf, that it onLy an idle threat and we don't see them leave. But I really would like to see Libertystand up and say 'no! If you don't like, then leave".

I don't think Ferrari need f1 as much as f1 needs ferrari (I knew who Ferrari were in my youth way before I knew what f1 was and didn't actually connect the 2 together until I started watching f1 in my 20's, so I'm guessing I won't be alone in this), however saying that, with the way Liberty media are looking at f1 now, I have more confidence that f1 will still prosper without Ferrari now than I have had before.

_________________
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 7:11 pm
Posts: 494
tootsie323 wrote:
Mercedes and Renault have also expressed concerns so Ferrari isn't exactly alone in voicing this - just that Ferrari appears to be the more vocal of these!


This.
There is little point in Liberty or the FIA trying to impose new regulations that none of the engine manufacturers will get behind.
Discuss and come up with a solution that works for all. Simples.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23736
minchy wrote:
To be fair to Ferrari, even though they threaten to pull out on a fairly regular basis over the years, I don't think I've seen them say this for a good 5 years or so.

I hope that it is just the boy crying wolf, that it onLy an idle threat and we don't see them leave. But I really would like to see Libertystand up and say 'no! If you don't like, then leave".

I don't think Ferrari need f1 as much as f1 needs ferrari (I knew who Ferrari were in my youth way before I knew what f1 was and didn't actually connect the 2 together until I started watching f1 in my 20's, so I'm guessing I won't be alone in this), however saying that, with the way Liberty media are looking at f1 now, I have more confidence that f1 will still prosper without Ferrari now than I have had before.

You have confidence in their proposals like doing away with Friday practice to make way for 25 races, for coming up with 3 by 2 grids with overlapping cars to make the starts more exciting, perhaps more crash worthy?

Also for generally wanting to spec up F1, like they say make F1 so the Leicester City's of the world can win?

Seems like it's moving to an up market version of NASCAR?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 12:14 am
Posts: 58
Location: Salisbury, Wiltshire UK
One less team means that Williams finish closer to the top. Gets my vote :lol:

But seriously...... I think this is just an idle threat, just like Red Bull do every so often.

I do believe though that F1 would continue just fine without Ferrari. And I also believe that Liberty Media should call their bluff so that it prevents the other big teams from making similar threats when anything doesn't suit them.


That said, I also don't like the idea of LM or the FIA being able to push through new regulations that no-one really supports.....

I know I've contradicted myself a bit there, but I guess I see it from both sides to a certain degree.

I'm voting meh, because to me personally it makes no difference whatsoever if Ferrari or A.N.Other team line up on the grid in 2021 - so long as the racing on track is interesting enough to prevent me from falling asleep during a GP :)

(I honestly think that if/when the time comes for Williams to quit the sport, I will still watch the races - I'll just move my support to whatever British drivers are on the grid at the time as opposed to supporting a particular constructor)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:39 am
Posts: 1300
Go away. Please, go away.

They do this s*it a few times a year. Please just do it already no one cares! Italian crybabies.

_________________
Winner of the [Charging Hamilton Trophy] !
Winner of the [Dominant Hamilton Trophy] !

Lewis Hamilton 4 x WDC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 29, 2016 1:00 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Paris
That's a strategic move. They just want to show their disagreement with what was publicly announced. Anybody thinking they will proceed further is naive.

_________________
« Violent delights have violent ends »


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:20 pm
Posts: 214
Their usual cage rattling and over-the-top posturing when things are not as they please.

Personally, I wouldn't care of they left. Their politics are a bad distraction from the sport. But, they won't leave so it's a moot point.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 2538
Location: UK
I wouldn't like to see any team leave the sport but none of them are indispensable. If Ferrari do decide to leave then another team would move up to take their place at the top table (hopefully one with a less self-entitled attitude) and F1 would continue on. Although I'm sure they are just bluffing as usual.

Reminds of this excellent piece by Sniff Petrol from a few years back
http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/06/24/ferra ... French Connection UK


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:54 am
Posts: 1706
Warheart01 wrote:
Go away. Please, go away.

They do this s*it a few times a year. Please just do it already no one cares! Italian crybabies.

They are by far the most successful, supported and popular team in F1.

Now if Red Bull or Mercedes threatened to go away, nobody would care because those teams have insignificant fanbases.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 938
I'd make an effort but would not to the point where a precedent is set that the decisions around how the sport is run is based on their preferences. I wouldn't want to see them go, but I've been watching F1 for 20 years and my interest has never wavered according to which teams are winning and I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

Very few of the teams have a real identity anyway unless the founder member is at the helm (Williams, Sauber when Peter was still there, Jordan). Individuals have personalities, organisations and brand names don't. The possible exception, much to my surprise has been Red Bull.

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:04 pm
Posts: 1568
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ferrari are like the boy who cried wolf or the kid in the park who says he will take his ball home if a goal isn't given.

Either way you can't threaten to pull out every time you fear something may not go your way and expect to be taken seriously.


You are thinking about Red Bull.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:04 pm
Posts: 1568
KingVoid wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:
Go away. Please, go away.

They do this s*it a few times a year. Please just do it already no one cares! Italian crybabies.

They are by far the most successful, supported and popular team in F1.

Now if Red Bull or Mercedes threatened to go away, nobody would care because those teams have insignificant fanbases.


Exactly right. People in this thread who think F1 can survive the loss of Ferrari are beyond delusional. Ferrari has by far, THE most number of fans period. All the other fans added up probably dont equal 1/10th the number of Ferrari fans.

I hate, loathe, and utterly despise Ferrari as a team but I would drop F1 in a heart beat if they were gone. Who else is there for my team to beat if Ferrari is gone? Force India? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Attendance at all the various grand prix will drop by half if there is no Ferrari. F1 would be a shell of its former self.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:27 pm
Posts: 1412
Location: UK
Formula 1 is much bigger than Ferrari. The racing pedigree of the red cars is what makes them special. I really hope Liberty call their bluff, a Ferrarexit will be much more damaging for Ferrari than F1. Liberty have already shown an appetite to harness the affinity of fans to particular drivers at the behest of team support.

While I don't want to see F1 as a fast spec series, Ferrari need to be put in their place. If they want to create their own competing series then I'd welcome it. It would go the way of A1GP, Ferrari is part of Formula 1 history, the reciprocal is not true in the same way.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 5838
Location: Nebraska, USA
So you say that you are willing to see F1 be a "spec series" in order to put Ferrari in "their place". Interesting.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:27 pm
Posts: 1412
Location: UK
Blake wrote:
So you say that you are willing to see F1 be a "spec series" in order to put Ferrari in "their place". Interesting.

Liberty clearly want the performance differential between teams to be smaller. Ferrari want to go back to the heady days of 2000-2004, despite most fans being aware of them enduring 15 years without any titles in the 80's and 90's. They are a special team but they are not bigger than the sport, neither are Renault, Red Bull, McLaren or Mercedes.

If I was in Brawn's shoes, I would design the regulations by independent committee to promote sustainable costs, cars that can follow closely and high performance, high degradation tyres to promote strategic variability. This would then be unvield to the teams and imposed. If they want to walk away, so be it. I'd much rather passionate privateers than huge constructors with vested interests.

Ferrari has little leverage and they know it. Even the Tifosi won't spend their money to watch a series where Ferrari makes the rules and wins all the time.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23736
j man wrote:
I wouldn't like to see any team leave the sport but none of them are indispensable. If Ferrari do decide to leave then another team would move up to take their place at the top table (hopefully one with a less self-entitled attitude) and F1 would continue on. Although I'm sure they are just bluffing as usual.

Reminds of this excellent piece by Sniff Petrol from a few years back
http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/06/24/ferra ... l/#.French Connection UK

You think a team could just walk into F1 and challenge Red Bull, unless you're thinking that F1 would just become a glorified version of F2?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23736
F1Tyrant wrote:
Formula 1 is much bigger than Ferrari. The racing pedigree of the red cars is what makes them special. I really hope Liberty call their bluff, a Ferrarexit will be much more damaging for Ferrari than F1. Liberty have already shown an appetite to harness the affinity of fans to particular drivers at the behest of team support.

While I don't want to see F1 as a fast spec series, Ferrari need to be put in their place. If they want to create their own competing series then I'd welcome it. It would go the way of A1GP, Ferrari is part of Formula 1 history, the reciprocal is not true in the same way.

I think that Ferrari have the backing of the other engine manufacturers it's just that Ferrari have the biggest stick.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23736
F1Tyrant wrote:
Blake wrote:
So you say that you are willing to see F1 be a "spec series" in order to put Ferrari in "their place". Interesting.

Liberty clearly want the performance differential between teams to be smaller. Ferrari want to go back to the heady days of 2000-2004, despite most fans being aware of them enduring 15 years without any titles in the 80's and 90's. They are a special team but they are not bigger than the sport, neither are Renault, Red Bull, McLaren or Mercedes.

If I was in Brawn's shoes, I would design the regulations by independent committee to promote sustainable costs, cars that can follow closely and high performance, high degradation tyres to promote strategic variability. This would then be unvield to the teams and imposed. If they want to walk away, so be it. I'd much rather passionate privateers than huge constructors with vested interests.

Ferrari has little leverage and they know it. Even the Tifosi won't spend their money to watch a series where Ferrari makes the rules and wins all the time.

You want the cars to be able to race but then put them on rubbish tyres on which the drivers can't actually race?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 2104
Ferrari need F1 just as much as F1 needs them. It's like your brain saying it's going to leave your heart, it's just an idle threat.

F1 would survive alright without them too. Surely it would lose a fair few fans but it would still survive. It's only really in Italy where the Scuderia is the be all and end all of popularity. Brands like Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Raikkonen, Mercedes and McLaren are just as marketable around the rest of the world. Even the possibility of Max winning championships in an Aston Martin is going to sell a fair few tickets and T-shirts.

_________________
I remember when this website was all fields.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:27 pm
Posts: 1412
Location: UK
pokerman wrote:
You want the cars to be able to race but then put them on rubbish tyres on which the drivers can't actually race?


Spain and USA this year showed it's possible to strike a balance between high performance and strategic variability. Pirelli were too conservative at most tracks this year and when they got it "wrong", those races were pretty exciting.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23736
F1Tyrant wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You want the cars to be able to race but then put them on rubbish tyres on which the drivers can't actually race?


Spain and USA this year showed it's possible to strike a balance between high performance and strategic variability. Pirelli were too conservative at most tracks this year and when they got it "wrong", those races were pretty exciting.

Well I don't mind that level of deg, high deg tyres has me thinking of multiple tyre stops.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:17 pm
Posts: 7
I'm not sure if I would watch F1 without Ferrari.

Not for any love of Ferrari, but what team would be able to challenge at the top? I know a lot can change in 3-4 years, but they are consistently a top 3 team. Lose Ferrari and you just have more also rans.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:27 pm
Posts: 1412
Location: UK
pokerman wrote:
Well I don't mind that level of deg, high deg tyres has me thinking of multiple tyre stops.

I'd say the most entertaining dry races I've watched: Canada 2010, China 2011, Germany 2011 (It's a coincidence they are all Hamilton wins, honest!) involved the viability of 2 stop vs 3 stop.

The fastest strategy for most races should be two stops.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:37 am
Posts: 177
Warheart01 wrote:
Go away. Please, go away.

They do this s*it a few times a year. Please just do it already no one cares! Italian crybabies.


How old are you man? Do you also refer to yourself as a whinging Englishman?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:37 am
Posts: 177
Every team looks after their own interests - just look up how many times RBR has threatened to quit post 2013.

I think this is just posturing - but love them or hate them, Ferrari is almost a part of F1's DNA imo, and F1 without Ferrari is just not the same.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:13 pm
Posts: 1105
Thank you for the responses. I am attempting to gauge fan opinion.

What do I think about Ferrari? They don't play well with others. They were once known for their endurance racing prowess, the Formula One story came later. In the 60's some nonsense went down between Henry Ford II and Enzo Ferrari, the result being Henry became determined to crush Ferrari at their own game, LeMans. To make a long story short, Ford crushed Ferrari at LeMans, Ferrari left, never to be seen in factory backed races.

IMO this is the story of Ferrari, successful in building unique cars, but they will run away when faced with a determined challenge. This is the opposite of many lesser teams in Formula One, they are here to participate and try.

I also believe that Ferrari needs Formula One a lot more than the reverse. Ferrari do not advertise, they rely on word of mouth and their racing success to push themselves into the public eye.

One thing I noticed while scanning the responses is that many fans are devoted to a team or driver, they do not appear to be addicted to the sport of racing itself.

_________________
Only dogs, mothers, and quality undergarments give unconditional support.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:01 am
Posts: 33
Amazing to see that there are people happy to watch Ferrari walk, and not actually care for the health of the sport. The sport needs Ferrari, it's honestly that simple. It may not be a popular fact, but it's still a fact. If Red Bull left, it would suck but the sport would carry on. If Mercedes left it would be a blow, but again the sport keeps on keeping on. Likewise if Renault or Honda leave, the sport needs manufacturers regardless of the apparent intentions to drift towards a spec series.

Ferrari leave? Good luck Liberty. They're a lot more to this sport than a manufacturer, Bernie knew it, the FIA knows it, Liberty are going to find that out one way or another.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 5838
Location: Nebraska, USA
that nonsense between Ford and Ferrari was that while he initially agreed to sell Ferrari to Ford when Henry Jr. showed up with an batch of lawyers to finalize the deal, Enzo, with one lawyer present disagreed when he realized it meant that he would lose control of the racing team as well. So he chose not to sell the team that was his life.... Ford got mad and spent a fortune to beat Ferrari... a Ferrari that was having financial issues at the time, which is how the whole buyout came to be to begin with.

I am disappointed in your analysis, Blinky.
Quote:
they will run away when faced with a determined challenge

Run from it when things go bad? They went 22 years without an F1 championship... did they run away? No, they stuck to it and went on the longest run of success in the history of the sport. Now 10 removed from their last Championship, they are still in the sport. Is that running away? Were the great McLarens, Williams and Renaults of the 80s/90s not a determined challenge to them? Funny thing, I always thought those teams were tough to beat.

Yes, they have threatened to leave the sport if it goes the way that Liberty is putting out there, and why not? It is their right, and while many hear are talking big about the sport not missing or getting along without Ferrari, I think some of you are kidding yourselves. First of all, remember that thus far THREE of the four engine manufacturers have voiced their displeasure with the 2021 engine proposals... and it is unlikely that Honda looks forward to them as well. They talk of cutting the expense of the sport, but dictate a new engine design as of '21. Even Mercedes have commented on the expense of developing a new engine and they have a hell of a lot more money than does Ferrari... or likely Renault. If all of the manufacturers don't like the direction F1 is going, then perhaps Liberty should listen. At this time, Ferrari is just voicing their thoughts, and look at the hell they are catching for it. Yet, if they exercised the Veto, then most of the same critics would go ballistic with yet another thread and multiple pages of "favoritism" for Ferrari. So, instead, they should just take whatever is put out there... and be good quiet little boys.

Yeah, it is unlikely that Ferrari is going to leave the sport, but whether their critics like it or not, Ferrari is the most visible and powerful name in the sport. When they speak, Liberty best listen. The meeting next week is to discuss future engine proposals and see if an agreement can be reached. Ferrari has, in a very strong way, but their thoughts on the table. Thoughts, I might add, seem to reflect the thoughts of Mercedes and Renault when it comes to the suggested engine regulations. Should Ferrari leave over unfavorable engine regulations and the direction F1 is going, the sport might survive, but will it be the sport so many of you claim to love? Another thought, should Ferrari leave, will all the others stay? Does Mercedes stay if the biggest name in the sport is not there, and the engine regulations do not represent what Mercedes thinks F1 should be? Or does McLaren stay without Ferrari... it has been suggested in the past that if Ferrari left F1, McLaren might well do it to, as that is their real rival when they are faring better.

Now, about Ferrari suffering without F1, needing F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari? Perhaps, but probably not. As Marchionne said in the discussion where he suggested Ferrari might leave the sport...
The implications of Ferrari leaving F1 would "totally beneficial to the profit and loss", and claimed that "the board would be celebrating here until the cows come home" IE, the F1 team is an expensive proposition for even Ferrari. Endurance racing such as LeMans would be a much less expensive proposition, as would other racing series.

As Marchionne said, Ferrari doesn't want to leave the sport, but they always have that option. If you think that Ferrari will "die" without F1 since they don't advertise, remember that Lamborghini and other supercar exotic manufactures are not in F1 either, and they are surviving. Porsche is not in F1, and they certainly don't suffer greatly. As for the "free" advertising F1 brings Ferrari, there is nothing that says Ferrari could do something as crazy as pay for advertising if they felt it would be beneficial. Ferrari will be just fine, in F1 or out of it... but it definitely be more fun for all true F1 fans if they are on the track with the other F1 teams.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 1602
I would love to keep Ferrari in the sport. It would be a huge blow to F1 if Ferrari left.

That said and notwithstanding, the price for keeping Ferrari on board cannot be to twist the rules in Ferrari's favour. That's the one case where it is better to see even Ferrari leave.

Does Ferrari need F1? In the short run: no. In the long run? Yes! Ferrari's brand will carry them quite a while. However, in the course of time, Ferrari without F1 would lose its special status and become just another sports car manufacturer.

Also, Ferrari is not a car manufacturer's subsidiary anymore. It will become a play toy of investment companies in a couple of years. This may lead to withdrawal anyway if owners' interests are short term enough.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 1602
What I find funny is that many forumers - including and especially many Ferrari supporters - were jumping up and down in anger about the current engine regulations, vigorously demanding simpler and cheaper engines. Now, Liberty starts to head in this direction - and, bang, Ferrari is vetoing and using threats to leave. So, where are all those enemies of the complex hybrid egines now? Shouldn't they criticize Ferrari? Or have they suddenly changed their opinion now that Ferrari is a fan of the hybrids?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23736
F1Tyrant wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well I don't mind that level of deg, high deg tyres has me thinking of multiple tyre stops.

I'd say the most entertaining dry races I've watched: Canada 2010, China 2011, Germany 2011 (It's a coincidence they are all Hamilton wins, honest!) involved the viability of 2 stop vs 3 stop.

The fastest strategy for most races should be two stops.

3 stops is too many you then are racing on tyres that are good for about 10 laps, I consider that to be a bit of a joke and the term racing is a moot point on tyres that fragile that need to be looked after.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 15th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 5838
Location: Nebraska, USA
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
What I find funny is that many forumers - including and especially many Ferrari supporters - were jumping up and down in anger about the current engine regulations, vigorously demanding simpler and cheaper engines. Now, Liberty starts to head in this direction - and, bang, Ferrari is vetoing and using threats to leave. So, where are all those enemies of the complex hybrid egines now? Shouldn't they criticize Ferrari? Or have they suddenly changed their opinion now that Ferrari is a fan of the hybrids?


Your memory fails you... again.

Objections were to the idea of an engine that didn't fit what we saw F1 to be, and one that did not fit into Ferrari's road car lineup, not like it did for Renault and Merc who had long used turbos for their street car line-up as well. Up until the 488, Ferrari hadn't used a turbo since the F40, if I remember correctly.

"Simpler and cheaper" were not what people complained about.. when have Ferrari fans been majorly concerned about lowering the cost of F1 to the teams? We are usually being attacked for NOT being concerned about the cost to an F1 team. I guess you are trying to spin it both ways.
:lol:

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 1602
You are in favour of the current engine regulations, Blake, and that's fine, of course. I was obviously talking about those who used to vehemently oppose them.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group