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Would you support Ferrari or let them go?
Do whatever it takes to keep Ferrari in the sport 25%  25%  [ 15 ]
Meh 22%  22%  [ 13 ]
Let them go, the sport will get along without Ferrari. 53%  53%  [ 31 ]
Total votes : 59
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:17 am 
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I am not in favor of the one proposal to use "Standardized Parts" for some of the engine and powertrain. This is not NASCAR. Formula one should not be a "spec car".


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:21 am 
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I don't like the current regs, Paolo. However, I also don't like the "dumbing down" of F1 either. Do we want F1 to be a spec series? That is the direction it could be going in order to make it more affordable for the small teams... but will it be the F1 we all love?

The other thing is that every engine change brings with it a great expense to the manufacturers that gets passed down to the buyer teams as well as shared with the manufacturers team. So costs reductions seldom are that, given the FIAs propensity for frequent engine regulation changes... they are always, seemingly, in the R&D stage .. 3 years then change... three more years and change... or so it seems.

I think that engine makers have every right to be concerned and to voice their concerns, Paolo. It is not as though only Ferrari is concerned.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:42 am 
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where will ferrari be in 30-40 years as the internal combustion engine is slowly legislated out of existence? (lamborghini, etc too)

f1 and ferrari need each other to both be vey successfull. just another time a team threatens to quit...kind of ridiculous to me at this point


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:51 am 
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pc27b wrote:
where will ferrari be in 30-40 years as the internal combustion engine is slowly legislated out of existence? (lamborghini, etc too)

f1 and ferrari need each other to both be vey successfull. just another time a team threatens to quit...kind of ridiculous to me at this point

In 30-40 years, I won't be around to care.

However, I would guess that whatever F1 is running, that is what Ferrari will run... if either one still exists.

Curious though... why single out Ferrari with that question? And.. Lamborghini? Think the Italians are unable to adapt to something other than internal combustion?
;)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:31 am 
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Last edited by quere on Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:36 am 
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F1 and Ferrari go hand-in-hand together.

Neither Sport nor Manufacturer will be better off without each other.

It will be resolved. I cannot see either side wanting the other to go. I think they'll both compromise and get it done.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:33 am 
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Blake wrote:
pc27b wrote:
where will ferrari be in 30-40 years as the internal combustion engine is slowly legislated out of existence? (lamborghini, etc too)

f1 and ferrari need each other to both be vey successfull. just another time a team threatens to quit...kind of ridiculous to me at this point

In 30-40 years, I won't be around to care.

However, I would guess that whatever F1 is running, that is what Ferrari will run... if either one still exists.

Curious though... why single out Ferrari with that question? And.. Lamborghini? Think the Italians are unable to adapt to something other than internal combustion?
;)


I think this is key to the argument, I mentioned this elsewhere the point is that F1's vision for the future HAS to be in line with the development of motoring. The alternative is a historical formula where the only way you would see fossil fuel vehicles.

Ferrari are completely wrong in trying to blackmail the sport but then Liberty in their own way are following a similar tactic, proposing the removal of the MGU-H clearly has knock on consequences, for engines to develop the can't be made to re-set their design every 3 years!

I don't think we will see the elimination of the ICE completely but to me it is clear that a hybrid of some sort will be around for a very long time.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:54 am 
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Ferrari hold all the cards.
How many they decide to use is up to them. Not other way around.

Ferrari has never issued the quit warning easily. Neither had they interfered in regulation changes unless it was absolutely needed and even then they have backed down for the good of the sport when Renault threatened to exit if the current turbo era was not introduced.
We all know how that has turned out so far.

2020 is when the current contract of FOM expires with all teams. Ferrari are and will remain the strongest brand in the sport at that time. If they see something that hurts their brand like even more standardized components, they will not play ball.
The response were very specific. They do not want engine components to be standardised. Ferrari takes great pride in their engine technology whether its winning championship or not and they will not let FOM dilute that brand name. Be it ICE or hybrid systems.
I am 100% sure mercedes will take similar stance. Neither of them will also be ready to provide such system to all teams like mclaren did with the ECU as this is highly sensitive tech that they currently are using or plant to in future in their road cars. They will not want rival car manufacturers to even see it and have opportunity to inspect it and know its complete tech spec.

That is where the Ferrari's objection is coming from. It will be the primary reason as to why Mercedes and Renault both have expressed their reservation along with completely having to redesign current PU around the new standardised MGU-K.
It will be one of the teams that will be tasked with designing and building this standardised MGU-K and in the first year, they will have significant head start knowing the progress and design concepts that will go into it even if other teams are given access to all the data.

Not a single team on the grid can afford to loose Ferrari from the grid. Marchionne also made it clear in the end, that Ferrari wont just walk away but go build something else. And mark my words, all top teams will walk away from F1 and with Ferrari if that happens. There is no value for Mercedes to be in F1 without being able to tell their customers that they beat Ferrari in F1.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Ferrari will not walk out of F1 exactly because of their brand. Ferrari without F1 would be just another sports car manufacturer after a while.

Ferrari will only leave F1 if it becomes a playball of investment companies that want to make quick cash and do not care about the long run value.

If Ferrari wanted to build an alternative championship, it would face the same challenge as Liberty now: how to get a full grid without cost-cutting? A championship of Ferrari and Mrcedes only - that will lose fan interest quickly. And then one decides to leave ....


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:32 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Ferrari will not walk out of F1 exactly because of their brand. Ferrari without F1 would be just another sports car manufacturer after a while.

Ferrari will only leave F1 if it becomes a playball of investment companies that want to make quick cash and do not care about the long run value.

If Ferrari wanted to build an alternative championship, it would face the same challenge as Liberty now: how to get a full grid without cost-cutting? A championship of Ferrari and Mrcedes only - that will lose fan interest quickly. And then one decides to leave ....

If Liberty Media were to totally spec up F1 then what the chances of Ferrari winning and then what value would F1 have for them?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Does really anyone intends to turn F1 into a full spec series?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Does really anyone intends to turn F1 into a full spec series?


No, not at all its a bargaining start point, but Ferrari's flouncing is just as annoying, just when you start to appreciate their talent they go all childish on you, "We'll take our ball away if we have to play on your pitch!"


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:31 pm 
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Of course they are not going to turn into a FULL spec series... but perhaps enough of a spec series to make it unattractive to the manufacturers.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:55 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pc27b wrote:
where will ferrari be in 30-40 years as the internal combustion engine is slowly legislated out of existence? (lamborghini, etc too)

f1 and ferrari need each other to both be vey successfull. just another time a team threatens to quit...kind of ridiculous to me at this point

In 30-40 years, I won't be around to care.

However, I would guess that whatever F1 is running, that is what Ferrari will run... if either one still exists.

Curious though... why single out Ferrari with that question? And.. Lamborghini? Think the Italians are unable to adapt to something other than internal combustion?
;)


now that you mention it, i won't be around either...lol. i just wonder when i read the articles about getting rid of the internal combustion engine what super car makers like ferrari/lambo will do to make an "exotic" car in the future.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Given just how symbiotic the relationship between F1 and Ferrari has become, this just feels like empty posturing. I don't think Ferrari have ever been in a weaker position when it comes to the quit threat, although they do have Mercedes and Renault on their side when it comes to the engine regulation change.

I'll pay a bit more attention to it when Robin Miller is telling me that Ferrari have knocked up an Indycar and an engine to go with it lol

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:59 pm 
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The engine regulation changes are what it is all about, however... and as you say, Ferrari is not alone on this concern.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Blake wrote:
The engine regulation changes are what it is all about, however... and as you say, Ferrari is not alone on this concern.


No they are not. Are you sold on Marchionne Blake? In years prior this threat really was just posturing and the like, but Sergio strikes me as the type of man with enough ego (and probable backing given his role in the grand scheme of FIAT et al) to actually attempt to see this through.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:24 pm 
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marchionne has stated he will retire in early 2019. not sure who will be next


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:23 pm 
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F1 is bigger than any single entrant! Ferrari, MB, Renault, Honda - the other 'teams' can be considered 'garagistas' building a chassis for someone's engine. While Ferrari has been in modern F1 since the first race in 1950 - F1 would continue without them, until Ferrari comes to its senses and gets back in the game.

No individual player or team is bigger than the game!

If Ferrari would follow through on their threat I would be astounded! Political posturing, pure and simple.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:02 am 
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I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I don't think bowing down to any team throwing their weight around is a good thing, but not only would I hate to see Ferrari leave I also agree with them on the engine rules. Freer development across the board is needed, not more restrictions, and I think that sort of talk ought to be nipped in the bud before it goes towards "well, what if we made the wing spec too" type cost-saving which would verge on turning F1 into a spec series. And that, I feel, is the only thing that would really be likely to kill F1.

It's also not just Ferrari making noise, as others have pointed out. None of the manufacturers appear happy. I'll grant that's partly because they may lose advantages (including monetary bonuses they really shouldn't be getting), but I think it's also because they're the ones most invested in the development angle of the sport, and it would be unwise to ignore them. They may well be doing so for selfish reasons, but they bring up valid points.

Blake wrote:
Of course they are not going to turn into a FULL spec series... but perhaps enough of a spec series to make it unattractive to the manufacturers.

Hopefully they are aware that would also make it less attractive to a great many fans.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:32 am 
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Remmirath wrote:
I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I don't think bowing down to any team throwing their weight around is a good thing, but not only would I hate to see Ferrari leave I also agree with them on the engine rules. Freer development across the board is needed, not more restrictions, and I think that sort of talk ought to be nipped in the bud before it goes towards "well, what if we made the wing spec too" type cost-saving which would verge on turning F1 into a spec series. And that, I feel, is the only thing that would really be likely to kill F1.

It's also not just Ferrari making noise, as others have pointed out. None of the manufacturers appear happy. I'll grant that's partly because they may lose advantages (including monetary bonuses they really shouldn't be getting), but I think it's also because they're the ones most invested in the development angle of the sport, and it would be unwise to ignore them. They may well be doing so for selfish reasons, but they bring up valid points.

Blake wrote:
Of course they are not going to turn into a FULL spec series... but perhaps enough of a spec series to make it unattractive to the manufacturers.

Hopefully they are aware that would also make it less attractive to a great many fans.


With the narrow confines of F1 regulations - the cars are more SPEC now than any 'open' series should be.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:43 am 
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This might not be popular to say but if I were Liberty Media, I would call them on their bluff. Ferrari's brand is completely tied to Formula 1 and dropping out of the world championship would do immeasurable harm to their brand. Formula 1 is the thing that separates Ferrari from the Lamborghinis of the world. Their brand is built on success at the pinnacle of motor sports. I doubt that they would be willing to just walk away from that.

Even if they are willing to walk away, I say let them go. There seems to be some blanket assumption that F1 has done really well under its current guise. I'm sure Liberty Media realize that F1 is actually under-achieving financially and has been for many years. The notion that one of the competitors should have favor and preferential treatment is one that jeopardizes the future of the sport. What the sport needs is greater parity and this is Ferrari's attempt to scare Liberty into not pursuing that. Liberty must call their bluff in order to maintain control of the sport. Otherwise we end up with these big brands just calling all the shots (which is what we all claim to want to get away from).


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:40 am 
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Of course in your "let them leave", are you willing to let Mercedes And Renaultl leave too, as they too are not pleased with the proposed engine regs. Finally, a way for Honda to win!

Your rant against Ferrari and desire for "parity" and apparent disdain for manufacturers fails to consider what F1 would be without them. As I stated before... if Ferrari were to leave, and I doubt that they will, you have no guarantee that Merc and McLaren would stay. Oh, is it my failing memory that Mercedes threatened to quit the sport unless they got the engines that they wanted.. which have served them to four years championships? Funny thing... Ferrari didn't used that horrible "Veto" to stop it, nor do I remember all the forum outrage.
;)

BTW, the is a big difference between Ferrari and Lamborghini... and while ferrari's image has been built in part thru F1, many here seem to fail to take into account that Ferrari more than any team in the sport is the face of F1,it is one of the most recognized brands in the world, so to send them on their way would have a dramatic negative effect on F1 whether you, and others, want to believe it or not.

The really funny thing is that we have many pages in the thread with dozens of posts basically saying send them on their way when all the hullabaloo is over a proposal with the manufacturers not liking what they see and discussions yet to come! Lets see w h at transpires in the meetings before getting too upset.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:53 am 
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The point, Blake, is that Liberty shouldn't allow any of the teams to gain leverage merely by threatening to quit. To answer your question about Mercedes, yes, if they threaten to quit, I would have the same response.

I think you should consider the possibility that not everyone agrees with your notion that F1 needs Ferrari. Some people would like to see the integrity of the sport strengthened by removing the unfair baked-in advantages that have been given to Ferrari.

The reality is that F1, as a business, can be grown to double its current size with or without Ferrari. With how poorly is was being run by Bernie over the last decade, there's a ton of room for growth. Ferrari won't want to walk away and neither will Mercedes truth be told. This is merely a bluff and Liberty must call them on it.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:16 am 
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Manufacturers will come and go. There is no way to prevent this, so you better stop trying IMO. Ferrari used to be different but with the ongoing changes in ownership, I am skeptical whether this will be true for the future.

What you need is a sustainable business models for teams, so that a sufficient number of teams can survive in the long run in F1. Teams whose main business is F1.

How can this goal be achieved? This is not trivial but a better allocation of revenues would help. And it must be possible to compete with a reasonable/affordable budget - at least on midfield level with the occasional chance to upset the big ones.

Currently, the gap between the top 3 and the midfield is too big and the number of teams is on the lower boundary.

Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault will seek their short run interests through lobbying the technical regulations. If you want F1 to prosper in the longer run, you cannot rely on this.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:11 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
The point, Blake, is that Liberty shouldn't allow any of the teams to gain leverage merely by threatening to quit. To answer your question about Mercedes, yes, if they threaten to quit, I would have the same response.

I think you should consider the possibility that not everyone agrees with your notion that F1 needs Ferrari. Some people would like to see the integrity of the sport strengthened by removing the unfair baked-in advantages that have been given to Ferrari.

The reality is that F1, as a business, can be grown to double its current size with or without Ferrari. With how poorly is was being run by Bernie over the last decade, there's a ton of room for growth. Ferrari won't want to walk away and neither will Mercedes truth be told. This is merely a bluff and Liberty must call them on it.



Globally? No, F1 cannot grow financially and spectator wise globally without Ferrari. Period. Anyone who thinks otherwise is blinded by some fairy tale image of F1 in their mind.

Maybe it will grow in US, but nowhere else would they be able to retain their viewership, nor would broadcasters pay big bucks to F1 without Ferrari.
For whatever things we didn't like about bernie, he and FOM made F1 the sport(if we call it a sport to begin with) with most revenue. More than FIFA. There is no parallel to F1 as far as money is concerned. It can grow further but not without Ferrari.
All teams know it, Liberty knows it, they wont let go of Ferrari for anything. If Ferrari Veto something, no way Liberty can implement it if the result is Ferrari walking out.

To the credit of Ferrari, they have never abused this power they have in this century.

Ferrari and Mercedes at the moment hold all the cards about F1 future. And mind you Mercede's interests are in line with Ferrari's.They do not want standardized core power unit parts. Period. This dilutes their brand and they wont want anything to do with it.

Its also stupid of FOM and FIA to rush with this announcement. If they had to standarise anything, they should have introduced standard front and rear wings. Take out all complex wings and redesign them to be low turbulence low drag wings. Let manufacturers design cars around it and engines within technical regulations and guidelines.

Any standard power unit part will feel very odd to me. It has never happened in F1. That is now what F1 is all about.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:23 pm 
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funkymonkey wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
The point, Blake, is that Liberty shouldn't allow any of the teams to gain leverage merely by threatening to quit. To answer your question about Mercedes, yes, if they threaten to quit, I would have the same response.

I think you should consider the possibility that not everyone agrees with your notion that F1 needs Ferrari. Some people would like to see the integrity of the sport strengthened by removing the unfair baked-in advantages that have been given to Ferrari.

The reality is that F1, as a business, can be grown to double its current size with or without Ferrari. With how poorly is was being run by Bernie over the last decade, there's a ton of room for growth. Ferrari won't want to walk away and neither will Mercedes truth be told. This is merely a bluff and Liberty must call them on it.



Globally? No, F1 cannot grow financially and spectator wise globally without Ferrari. Period. Anyone who thinks otherwise is blinded by some fairy tale image of F1 in their mind.

Maybe it will grow in US, but nowhere else would they be able to retain their viewership, nor would broadcasters pay big bucks to F1 without Ferrari.
For whatever things we didn't like about bernie, he and FOM made F1 the sport(if we call it a sport to begin with) with most revenue. More than FIFA. There is no parallel to F1 as far as money is concerned. It can grow further but not without Ferrari.
All teams know it, Liberty knows it, they wont let go of Ferrari for anything. If Ferrari Veto something, no way Liberty can implement it if the result is Ferrari walking out.

To the credit of Ferrari, they have never abused this power they have in this century.

Ferrari and Mercedes at the moment hold all the cards about F1 future. And mind you Mercede's interests are in line with Ferrari's.They do not want standardized core power unit parts. Period. This dilutes their brand and they wont want anything to do with it.

Its also stupid of FOM and FIA to rush with this announcement. If they had to standarise anything, they should have introduced standard front and rear wings. Take out all complex wings and redesign them to be low turbulence low drag wings. Let manufacturers design cars around it and engines within technical regulations and guidelines.

Any standard power unit part will feel very odd to me. It has never happened in F1. That is now what F1 is all about.

This is the type of fearful, small-minded thinking that Ferrari are banking on. They want people to feel as you do; that the sport needs them and should do whatever they want in order to keep them. The problem is that by bending over backwards to placate one of the competitors, you make it so that F1 is not really a sport. It's just a convoluted marketing scheme; a choreographed show, like professional wrestling.

No it's not delusional to think that F1 can grow massively with or without Ferrari. The bottom line is that the sport has taken the polar opposite path to growth over the last 10-15 years. In the midst of the information age, F1 chose to try to become more exclusive rather than trying to become more accessible. The fundamental reality of the information age is that accessibility trumps exclusivity.

Bernie was essentially actively preventing the sport from achieving its potential. NASCAR; a regional series that is only popular in North America; was raking in almost double the revenue of F1! That shows you how much money they were leaving on the table. If Ferrari want to maintain F1 as a series in which most of the competitors have no chance, they can find the door. That's my opinion at least. Liberty will know that the fans want exciting cars, top drivers battling it out and close racing. That is what should take precedent; not Ferrari's predictable attempt to gain an unfair advantage.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:01 pm 
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The problem the FIA (and now LM) have is that they have made the sport utterly dependant upon the manufacturers. From a PU perspective, the rules are virtually guaranteed to exclude anyone other than the manufacturers with the biggest R&D departments. They have made everything so complex that it's simply impossible for any independent to compete: if a company the size of Honda can't get it right, then what chance anyone with a fraction of the resources? But it also means that they have given companies like Ferrari too much power, since they can't afford for an already severely restricted power planet supplier pool to shrink even further than it has.

The more complex and restrictive they make the engine formula, the less able they are to call any manufacturer's bluff if they, like Ferrari, threaten to leave. And it's their own fault for trying to meddle with the technical specs and dictate the future direction of engine development. They won't call Ferrari's bluff, because they can't afford to.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:47 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Of course in your "let them leave", are you willing to let Mercedes And Renaultl leave too, as they too are not pleased with the proposed engine regs. Finally, a way for Honda to win!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:49 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:


The reality is that F1, as a business, can be grown to double its current size with or without Ferrari.


Ludicrous. Have you ever been to an F1 race? Ever see anyone wearing red? 85% of the fans at an F1 race are FERRARI fans.

F1 would be a shell of its former self if Ferrari left.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:00 am 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:


The reality is that F1, as a business, can be grown to double its current size with or without Ferrari.


Ludicrous. Have you ever been to an F1 race? Ever see anyone wearing red? 85% of the fans at an F1 race are FERRARI fans.

F1 would be a shell of its former self if Ferrari left.


Yes i have... no they were not.
At Silverstone this year there were just as many sporting Mercedes kit as anything.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:57 pm 
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_Rogue_ wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:


The reality is that F1, as a business, can be grown to double its current size with or without Ferrari.


Ludicrous. Have you ever been to an F1 race? Ever see anyone wearing red? 85% of the fans at an F1 race are FERRARI fans.

F1 would be a shell of its former self if Ferrari left.


Yes i have... no they were not.
At Silverstone this year there were just as many sporting Mercedes kit as anything.

And they weren't even Mercedes fans, they were Hamilton fans. By the same logic the sport is doomed when he retires.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:31 pm 
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well I have never got the reason for Ferrari getting a bigger slice of revenue just because of the time Ferrari have been in the sport
would this ever happen in other sports ?........NO


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:57 pm 
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I think there is a hidden play here and though many of you surely have read it when it was out, many have forgotten it - VW (AUDI).
There was, not so long ago, a notion that VW is considering entering F1 (as AUDI most probably) BUT not at the current state of regulation in F1 and that they are watching how things are developing.
Considering that, VW is the biggest auto manufacturer in the world atm, holding such brands as Lambo and Bugatti, it would be a great shift and interesting move if they enter in, even if Ferrari leaves.
If LM has such a joker up the sleeve i don't think Ferrari has any leverage in this game, they are too weak outside of F1, actually they are almost nothing outside of it.
Brands like Lambo (not to mention Bugatti) are considered higher class in the rich men's luxury world. Ferrari's only grip to claim among the top ones is F1, so they can threaten all they want but they won't leave if they want to survive.
Actually, the irony is that without the support of the "lesser" fan based teams in F1 like Merc and RB, Ferrari has no chance to push for anything. If another big player is coming in and Merc and RB decide to stay, if Ferrari leaves they will be left out in the cold and soon fade.
This of course is all a speculation but based on possibility. So what do you guys think?
Could there be another big player in the shadows and LM having the power to call Ferrari's bluff based on that?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:59 pm 
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Aspar wrote:
I think there is a hidden play here and though many of you surely have read it when it was out, many have forgotten it - VW (AUDI).
There was, not so long ago, a notion that VW is considering entering F1 (as AUDI most probably) BUT not at the current state of regulation in F1 and that they are watching how things are developing.
Considering that, VW is the biggest auto manufacturer in the world atm, holding such brands as Lambo and Bugatti, it would be a great shift and interesting move if they enter in, even if Ferrari leaves.
If LM has such a joker up the sleeve i don't think Ferrari has any leverage in this game, they are too weak outside of F1, actually they are almost nothing outside of it.
Brands like Lambo (not to mention Bugatti) are considered higher class in the rich men's luxury world. Ferrari's only grip to claim among the top ones is F1, so they can threaten all they want but they won't leave if they want to survive.
Actually, the irony is that without the support of the "lesser" fan based teams in F1 like Merc and RB, Ferrari has no chance to push for anything. If another big player is coming in and Merc and RB decide to stay, if Ferrari leaves they will be left out in the cold and soon fade.
This of course is all a speculation but based on possibility. So what do you guys think?
Could there be another big player in the shadows and LM having the power to call Ferrari's bluff based on that?

BIB: I don't think that's true. I think Ferrari is considered much higher than Lambo


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:10 pm 
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I doubt Ferrari would leave. Unlike their showroom competition, grand prix racing is in Ferrari's DNA. It's not just what Ferrari are and have always been, it's what they sell. They have more competition in the hypercar arena than ever before, and being a top F1 team is a big marketing advantage that their competition doesn't have. There is no Bugatti, or Koeniggsegg, or Lamborghini in F1. If Ferrari leave, what is their marketing plan going to be when Koeniggseggs are faster, Lamborghinis look and sound better, and Bugattis are more luxurious and more durable?

Price?

Do they really think their clientele would care about price? Are Ferrari going to market themselves as the Volvo of the hypercar world? Ferrari needs F1 more than F1 needs Ferrari, so I say CALL THEIR BLUFF.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:13 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Of course in your "let them leave", are you willing to let Mercedes And Renaultl leave too, as they too are not pleased with the proposed engine regs. Finally, a way for Honda to win!

Your rant against Ferrari and desire for "parity" and apparent disdain for manufacturers fails to consider what F1 would be without them. As I stated before... if Ferrari were to leave, and I doubt that they will, you have no guarantee that Merc and McLaren would stay. Oh, is it my failing memory that Mercedes threatened to quit the sport unless they got the engines that they wanted.. which have served them to four years championships? Funny thing... Ferrari didn't used that horrible "Veto" to stop it, nor do I remember all the forum outrage.
;)

BTW, the is a big difference between Ferrari and Lamborghini... and while ferrari's image has been built in part thru F1, many here seem to fail to take into account that Ferrari more than any team in the sport is the face of F1,it is one of the most recognized brands in the world, so to send them on their way would have a dramatic negative effect on F1 whether you, and others, want to believe it or not.

The really funny thing is that we have many pages in the thread with dozens of posts basically saying send them on their way when all the hullabaloo is over a proposal with the manufacturers not liking what they see and discussions yet to come! Lets see w h at transpires in the meetings before getting too upset.

You keep saying this but you are wrong everytime, It was Renault that threatened to quit over the engines and not Mercedes, Mercedes problem was with the new Concorde agreement after both Ferrari and Red Bull had both negotiated lucrative deals for themselves.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:41 pm 
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In the past I never took Ferrari quit threats seriously. But with Marchionne I just don't know. I'd like to see them stay, F1 wouldn't be the same without them. It's possible that race attendance could be affected but I think TV viewership would be fine

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:07 pm 
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Ferrari don't want to leave F1 and Liberty don't want Ferrari to leave F1. You can't blame the marquee name for flexing their muscles a little bit.

I like Ferrari and Mercedes (and the other teams) but Ferrari are holding the sport back. Look at how other sports have grown by implementing a salary cap. It encourages competition.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:20 pm 
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One for Blake's Christmas stocking.




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