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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 am 
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Just in case there was any doubt how much Rosberg got to Hamilton:


https://twitter.com/skysportsf1/status/ ... 9223173121


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:33 am 
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oz_karter wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Hamilton and Alonso have both done the hard yards in F1 - it's ridiculous that a driver of Alonso's talent has only won 2 titles, whereas only Graham Hill has waited as long as Hamilton did for his 2nd title. Whereas Vettel just showed up in the right car at the right time and won races and titles galore.

Hamilton's move to Mercedes has rectified his personal score vs Vettel; there's obviously more bitterness from Alonso because he'll feel robbed of 2 titles he arguably should have won when he was at his peak.



Totally disagree with this. Alonso has done hard yards for sure, especially in the past 4 years.

Hamilton, on the other hand, has never really had a bad car. The McLaren was a great car in 2007 & 2008. It was still a very good car from 2009 - 2012, winning some races - it's just Red Bull & Vettel edged them out.

Hamilton really seemed to struggle when the McLaren wasn't the fastest car, he was even trounced by Button in 2011. This isn't doing "the hard yards".

His time at Mercedes since 2014 has been very, very, very kind to him. It's so interesting to hear Hamilton fans now say Rosberg was a top line driver after 2016, but he was never considered as that before.

I think the reality is Rosberg was good, but not anywhere near the level of say Alonso, Vettel, Verstappen or Ricciardo.

Put one of those drivers in the other Merc. Then Hamilton might have some "hard yards" to do.

Hamilton has never had a bad car (in that the car's he's had have always been capable of race wins), but he had 6 seasons where, for one reason or another, he had cars where he could barely challenge for titles. He waited 6 years for his second championship, no driver who has won multiple world titles has waited longer for their 2nd championship. That's what I'm referring to when talking about hard yards.

I think people also underestimate how difficult that would be. Guys that get to Formula One tend to spend a lot of their junior careers winning races and series left right and centre. Hamilton was extremely fortunate to continue in that vein when he initially made the step up to F1, but 2009 onwards would have been a huge shock to the system. It takes time to adjust to suddenly not winning all the time when you've been used to it for so long.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:44 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
It's not just those two. I've heard comments from Button, Ricciardo, Verstappen and others. I think people who are directly involved in F1 mostly see Vettel as behind the Hamiltons and Alonsos of the world in terms of ability. They think of him as someone who has always been in the right place at the right time. Both Hamilton and Alonso have spent several years in the wrong place. Vettel left Red Bull just in time and arrived at Ferrari just in time (after having previously joined Red Bull at just the right time). Vettel frequently finds himself in a top car and with a relatively weak teammate. It's the best situation possible and he has spent more time in it than any of the others.

I think it's interesting you say this because as it stands Vettel has won less races in his first 3 seasons than Alonso managed and has not come as close as Alonso managed to in terms of potentially winning a championship.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:21 am 
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GingerFurball wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
It's not just those two. I've heard comments from Button, Ricciardo, Verstappen and others. I think people who are directly involved in F1 mostly see Vettel as behind the Hamiltons and Alonsos of the world in terms of ability. They think of him as someone who has always been in the right place at the right time. Both Hamilton and Alonso have spent several years in the wrong place. Vettel left Red Bull just in time and arrived at Ferrari just in time (after having previously joined Red Bull at just the right time). Vettel frequently finds himself in a top car and with a relatively weak teammate. It's the best situation possible and he has spent more time in it than any of the others.

I think it's interesting you say this because as it stands Vettel has won less races in his first 3 seasons than Alonso managed and has not come as close as Alonso managed to in terms of potentially winning a championship.


Which would be used against Vettel, as there is a belief that - particularly this season, - he was given a car that Alonso would have got much closer or won a WDC with.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:23 am 
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Invade wrote:
They race hard but fair and keep it clean.
What are your thoughts on the relationship between Lewis and Seb?


Except when one driver makes a mistake, blames the other guy so decides to take matters in his own hands and drive alongside to then turn in on him causing a very minor collision.

I think this whole 'respect' is overrated. They want to beat each other and when given the chance may result in listening to their heart over their heads. These guys react instantly with their driving skills which can also mean.. doing something incredibly stupid just as quick.

When Sebastian did that - I stopped using the term 'keeping it clean' and 'fair'. Bit like Maldonado, I will never use the term 'keep it clean' because of what he has done on track. Likewise for MSC, Prost and Senna. I love Sebs talent and even his off track personality but at that one moment he lost respect and also created the 'doubt' that Seb purposely hit Lewis in Mexico. Although I really don't think he did - Seb has created that question mark him self.

Judge people on what they do.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:54 am 
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Want to see about Vettel/Hamilton relationship?

Watch the latest driver's meeting from Mexico... After the whole kerfuffle with Verstappen at Austin, Hamilton mentions Vettel going off the track and gaining an advantage. While Ricciardo agrees that everyone is running wide and puts all four wheels off turn 9, Lewis can't help it but having a go at Vettel for doing it!

Meanwhile, Vettel makes fun of Hamilton's headphones!

No love lost between them two, no matter how nice they looked after Lewis won the WDC.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:06 pm 
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oz_karter wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Hamilton and Alonso have both done the hard yards in F1 - it's ridiculous that a driver of Alonso's talent has only won 2 titles, whereas only Graham Hill has waited as long as Hamilton did for his 2nd title. Whereas Vettel just showed up in the right car at the right time and won races and titles galore.

Hamilton's move to Mercedes has rectified his personal score vs Vettel; there's obviously more bitterness from Alonso because he'll feel robbed of 2 titles he arguably should have won when he was at his peak.



Totally disagree with this. Alonso has done hard yards for sure, especially in the past 4 years.

Hamilton, on the other hand, has never really had a bad car. The McLaren was a great car in 2007 & 2008. It was still a very good car from 2009 - 2012, winning some races - it's just Red Bull & Vettel edged them out.

Hamilton really seemed to struggle when the McLaren wasn't the fastest car, he was even trounced by Button in 2011. This isn't doing "the hard yards".

His time at Mercedes since 2014 has been very, very, very kind to him. It's so interesting to hear Hamilton fans now say Rosberg was a top line driver after 2016, but he was never considered as that before.

I think the reality is Rosberg was good, but not anywhere near the level of say Alonso, Vettel, Verstappen or Ricciardo.

Put one of those drivers in the other Merc. Then Hamilton might have some "hard yards" to do.

What hard yards did Vettel have against Webber and Kimi, when is he actually going to prove himself against a top line driver and that 2014 was some kind of fluke?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:08 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Hamilton and Alonso have both done the hard yards in F1 - it's ridiculous that a driver of Alonso's talent has only won 2 titles, whereas only Graham Hill has waited as long as Hamilton did for his 2nd title. Whereas Vettel just showed up in the right car at the right time and won races and titles galore.

Hamilton's move to Mercedes has rectified his personal score vs Vettel; there's obviously more bitterness from Alonso because he'll feel robbed of 2 titles he arguably should have won when he was at his peak.

I think Hamilton's probably the poster boy for showing up in the right car at the right time. Who else has had a title capable car from the word go? I'm not sure he should be begrudged it, though. Good luck to him.

I don't really understand Alonso's contempt for Vettel, but it's pretty plain to see. Hamilton is a bit more subtle about it, but I think he's also not completely enamoured with him. One thing's for sure, these guys know how to hold a grudge!

It's not just those two. I've heard comments from Button, Ricciardo, Verstappen and others. I think people who are directly involved in F1 mostly see Vettel as behind the Hamiltons and Alonsos of the world in terms of ability. They think of him as someone who has always been in the right place at the right time. Both Hamilton and Alonso have spent several years in the wrong place. Vettel left Red Bull just in time and arrived at Ferrari just in time (after having previously joined Red Bull at just the right time). Vettel frequently finds himself in a top car and with a relatively weak teammate. It's the best situation possible and he has spent more time in it than any of the others.


He even got the best ever STR!

Yes the Newey designed car and with a superior engine than what Red Bull had.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:24 pm 
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Invade wrote:
Seb was incredibly gracious in defeat, slowing down after the race to wave/applaud Lewis and accepting Lewis' embrace in the interview pen afterwards as well as outright exclaiming that Lewis was "the better man" this year and "did the better job".

Lewis said to Seb in the interview pen: "Next year, yuhh?"

Let's go again.


Seb and Lewis understand that that to ridicule one another is to place less value on their own 4 WDC's so it defeats the purpose.

I think they are both top rated drivers but in my opinion so is Alonso, Verstappen, & Ricciardo. Agree with everyone who said Hamilton is the poster boy for showing up to the right car at the right time. Alonso being the poster boy for the wrong car at the wrong time. While Vettel also joined Red Bull at the right time, I respect him a lot more for grinding it out at Ferrari against a Mercedes where they really have no chance. I also like Hamilton but he's collected 3 titles against zero competition. It did take everything Nico had to win it last year and neither him or Lewis handled it well.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Bentrovato wrote:
Invade wrote:
Seb was incredibly gracious in defeat, slowing down after the race to wave/applaud Lewis and accepting Lewis' embrace in the interview pen afterwards as well as outright exclaiming that Lewis was "the better man" this year and "did the better job".

Lewis said to Seb in the interview pen: "Next year, yuhh?"

Let's go again.


Seb and Lewis understand that that to ridicule one another is to place less value on their own 4 WDC's so it defeats the purpose.

I think they are both top rated drivers but in my opinion so is Alonso, Verstappen, & Ricciardo. Agree with everyone who said Hamilton is the poster boy for showing up to the right car at the right time. Alonso being the poster boy for the wrong car at the wrong time. While Vettel also joined Red Bull at the right time, I respect him a lot more for grinding it out at Ferrari against a Mercedes where they really have no chance. I also like Hamilton but he's collected 3 titles against zero competition. It did take everything Nico had to win it last year and neither him or Lewis handled it well.


That's being very selective. I think people forget how many people thought Hamilton was an absolute idiot to agree to leave McLaren when he did, and agree to join Mercedes when he did.

Vettel came through the Red Bull Young Driver Program, landed in a fantastically dominant Red Bull with a team mate who couldn't get on top of its best feature, and blasted his way to 4 WDCs. He then had a poor season, both for him and Red Bull, then jumped ship to the most decorated team in the sport.

Hamilton came through the McLaren young driver program, joined the 2nd best car (imo - history tells me that Kimi & Massa wouldn't get near Alonso & Hamilton unless they had a much better car) with a reigning WDC teammate, spent several years in a car that couldn't live with many of the others most weeks then jumped ship when his car looked like it was actually becoming stronger - only bad luck kept him away from that 2012 fight, potentially winning the thing. All to join a team who had sat in 4th or 5th in the WCC for the past few seasons...

I don't mean this is a positive or negative towards any of them. There is an element of luck to any team change, you need to place your trust in a team of people you have no direct control over and cross your fingers it works out. There's also so many moving parts that much of it is out of their control. What if Alonso didn't grow tired of Ferrari, where would Vettel be? What if Brawn had left the Mercedes project earlier, would Hamilton still have found his way there? What if Vettel had come through the RBR Young Driver program when Ricciardo did, or Ricciardo had come through when Vettel did? Instead of being a 4x WDC, Vettel might have been sitting frustrated for the past several years watching a Mercedes drive in to the distance...

But yeah, I don't think anyone can change how sh*t Alonso's choices have worked out.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:45 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Just in case there was any doubt how much Rosberg got to Hamilton:


https://twitter.com/skysportsf1/status/ ... 9223173121


Seeing this and the drivers briefing, this guy is massively frustrated.

Great driver, but horrible human being. Real "sh***y character.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:06 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Just in case there was any doubt how much Rosberg got to Hamilton:


https://twitter.com/skysportsf1/status/ ... 9223173121


Seeing this and the drivers briefing, this guy is massively frustrated.

Great driver, but horrible human being. Real "sh***y character.

I don’t think he’s in any way horrible. I just think he has a massive persecution complex.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:05 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Just in case there was any doubt how much Rosberg got to Hamilton:


https://twitter.com/skysportsf1/status/ ... 9223173121


Seeing this and the drivers briefing, this guy is massively frustrated.

Great driver, but horrible human being. Real "sh***y character.


Calling someone a horrible human being and a shi*ty character.
Nice.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:25 pm 
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Invade wrote:
Also feel free to discuss other relationships.

Vettel's and Verstappen's seems contentious.
Hamilton-Rosberg.
Ricciardo-Verstappen.
Perez-Ocon.


Definitely agree with the bolded. Both are very aggressive on track and neither will yield. See Silverstone this year for example, or the start at Mexico.

Verstappen usually gets the better of him, and it seems like he has got in Vettel's head. Vettel is now more obsessed with trying to teach Max a lesson and it cost him quite badly in Singapore and Mexico this year.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:28 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
The only real genuine bad blood on the grid is between Alonso and Vettel. Alonso didn't respect Vettel's achievements from 2010-2013, he said on multiple occasions that he was fighting Newey instead of Vettel. There have been several times since Alonso has joined McLaren-Honda where he's ignored blue flags when Vettel came up to lap him. I remember what Vettel said on the radio at Abu Dhabi 2015: "this guy really hates me, I lost a second". Alonso hates Vettel and Vettel is more than aware of it. The latest example was Malaysia a few weeks ago.

Alonso probably feels injustice about 2010 and 2012. He doesn't rate Vettel as highly as Hamilton or himself, so Vettel's career statistics compared to his own is probably a tough pill for him to swallow.


Agree 100%. :thumbup:

Alonso's latest quotes:

Quote:
"I think when I was fighting for the championship you see Sebastian winning, maybe it is hurting sometimes because maybe you feel that you deserve it more or you had this possibility here and there. When you are not in contention I think it is not big thing. It's not your battle.

"In a way I am happy that Lewis gets this fourth title. It's strange to see four Vettel and three for Hamilton, now there is much more logic."


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:37 am 
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davidheath461 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
The only real genuine bad blood on the grid is between Alonso and Vettel. Alonso didn't respect Vettel's achievements from 2010-2013, he said on multiple occasions that he was fighting Newey instead of Vettel. There have been several times since Alonso has joined McLaren-Honda where he's ignored blue flags when Vettel came up to lap him. I remember what Vettel said on the radio at Abu Dhabi 2015: "this guy really hates me, I lost a second". Alonso hates Vettel and Vettel is more than aware of it. The latest example was Malaysia a few weeks ago.

Alonso probably feels injustice about 2010 and 2012. He doesn't rate Vettel as highly as Hamilton or himself, so Vettel's career statistics compared to his own is probably a tough pill for him to swallow.


Agree 100%. :thumbup:

Alonso's latest quotes:

Quote:
"I think when I was fighting for the championship you see Sebastian winning, maybe it is hurting sometimes because maybe you feel that you deserve it more or you had this possibility here and there. When you are not in contention I think it is not big thing. It's not your battle.

"In a way I am happy that Lewis gets this fourth title. It's strange to see four Vettel and three for Hamilton, now there is much more logic."

Doesn't show Alonso in a very good light, tbh. Carrying some sort of grudge because he got beaten? Comes across as a petulant child


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:57 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Just in case there was any doubt how much Rosberg got to Hamilton:


https://twitter.com/skysportsf1/status/ ... 9223173121


Seeing this and the drivers briefing, this guy is massively frustrated.

Great driver, but horrible human being. Real "sh***y character.

I don’t think he’s in any way horrible. I just think he has a massive persecution complex.

Yes and his paranoia has spread to some of his fans as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:49 am 
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I certainly think Hamilton has an ego and a half. But other drivers exhibit the exact same characteristics as Hamilton but get a free pass.

There are obviously a small number of undesirables who are simply uncomfortable with a black man being successful in traditionally white sport, but I think that's far from the whole story.

British Formula one fans much prefer the modest, humble plucky Brit. Someone like Hamilton who is arrogant and backs it up is very different.Brits tend to see extreme confidence as 'tacky'. And his other interests make people uncomfortable it seems. Nigel Mansell wasn't going to fashion shows and freezing his designer dogs sperm.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:33 am 
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Inappropriate post removed on further review

P-F1 Mod


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:34 am 
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Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
The only real genuine bad blood on the grid is between Alonso and Vettel. Alonso didn't respect Vettel's achievements from 2010-2013, he said on multiple occasions that he was fighting Newey instead of Vettel. There have been several times since Alonso has joined McLaren-Honda where he's ignored blue flags when Vettel came up to lap him. I remember what Vettel said on the radio at Abu Dhabi 2015: "this guy really hates me, I lost a second". Alonso hates Vettel and Vettel is more than aware of it. The latest example was Malaysia a few weeks ago.

Alonso probably feels injustice about 2010 and 2012. He doesn't rate Vettel as highly as Hamilton or himself, so Vettel's career statistics compared to his own is probably a tough pill for him to swallow.


Agree 100%. :thumbup:

Alonso's latest quotes:

Quote:
"I think when I was fighting for the championship you see Sebastian winning, maybe it is hurting sometimes because maybe you feel that you deserve it more or you had this possibility here and there. When you are not in contention I think it is not big thing. It's not your battle.

"In a way I am happy that Lewis gets this fourth title. It's strange to see four Vettel and three for Hamilton, now there is much more logic."

Doesn't show Alonso in a very good light, tbh. Carrying some sort of grudge because he got beaten? Comes across as a petulant child


Think its more of an opinion than a grudge.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:40 am 
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There are some sad people who dislike Hamilton for his skin colour, but I reckon those are the minority.

The majority of dislike for Lewis is because he can be a prat sometimes. He keeps taking petty shots at Vettel and Rosberg. He used to be very arrogant in his McLaren days but that has cooled down somewhat.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:49 am 
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Don't think there's much of a difference speed wise between Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso. The reason I support Vettel is that unlike the other two he isn't a complete %&#¤%.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:41 am 
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I'm not removing the racial comments because they don't cross the line yet, but I'd advise that we step away from them. I am assuming the "rodent" post applies the term to everyone, not just black people.

As far as I'm concerned the matter is closed and I hope it stays that way.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:48 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
There are some sad people who dislike Hamilton for his skin colour, but I reckon those are the minority.

The majority of dislike for Lewis is because he can be a prat sometimes. He keeps taking petty shots at Vettel and Rosberg. He used to be very arrogant in his McLaren days but that has cooled down somewhat.


I've only ever heard of Lewis himself playing the racial card. I have never ever heard anyone judging him for his skin colour, nor Karthikeyan back in the day.

Mods, if you feel that my comment is out of line or fuelling a bad conversation please remove it. It is not my intention to derail this conversation, rather expressing interest as to where this opinion comes from as I have never ever read anything regarding Lewis's skin colour myself.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:54 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
There are some sad people who dislike Hamilton for his skin colour, but I reckon those are the minority.

The majority of dislike for Lewis is because he can be a prat sometimes. He keeps taking petty shots at Vettel and Rosberg. He used to be very arrogant in his McLaren days but that has cooled down somewhat.


I've only ever heard of Lewis himself playing the racial card. I have never ever heard anyone judging him for his skin colour, nor Karthikeyan back in the day.

Mods, if you feel that my comment is out of line or fuelling a bad conversation please remove it. It is not my intention to derail this conversation, rather expressing interest as to where this opinion comes from as I have never ever read anything regarding Lewis's skin colour myself.


TBF you're not going to are you? Nobody is going to say "I hold this negative opinion of Lewis Hamilton because he is black and I am prejudiced against black people".

Even if that is why nobody is going to say it. They may well not even know it themselves.

Edit - Sorry PF1 mod just read your post. I will not comment further.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:25 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
There are some sad people who dislike Hamilton for his skin colour, but I reckon those are the minority.

The majority of dislike for Lewis is because he can be a prat sometimes. He keeps taking petty shots at Vettel and Rosberg. He used to be very arrogant in his McLaren days but that has cooled down somewhat.


I've only ever heard of Lewis himself playing the racial card. I have never ever heard anyone judging him for his skin colour, nor Karthikeyan back in the day.

Mods, if you feel that my comment is out of line or fuelling a bad conversation please remove it. It is not my intention to derail this conversation, rather expressing interest as to where this opinion comes from as I have never ever read anything regarding Lewis's skin colour myself.


TBF you're not going to are you? Nobody is going to say "I hold this negative opinion of Lewis Hamilton because he is black and I am prejudiced against black people".

Even if that is why nobody is going to say it. They may well not even know it themselves.

Edit - Sorry PF1 mod just read your post. I will not comment further.


I'm not sure. I agree that people will not easily express things like that. But on the other hand, have you seen people's comments under some articles from the BBC F1's webpage for example? Or Youtube comments that are largely unregulated? The vitriol in places like that is amazing. And I have never personally seen any of this.

Anyway, let's not derail this!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:37 pm 
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Oops. It's kinda my fault the thread got derailed. But I certainly feel that the aforementioned Hamilton vitriol in youtube comments etc is above and beyond that an arrogant driver should get.

I know the tax situation and him wanting to raise his kids in America has alienated him to those of a centre right/right persuasion too I guess.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:41 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
Oops. It's kinda my fault the thread got derailed. But I certainly feel that the aforementioned Hamilton vitriol in youtube comments etc is above and beyond that an arrogant driver should get.

I know the tax situation and him wanting to raise his kids in America has alienated him to those of a centre right/right persuasion too I guess.

He has kids?

BMWSauber84 wrote:
.Brits tend to see extreme confidence as 'tacky'. And his other interests make people uncomfortable it seems. Nigel Mansell wasn't going to fashion shows and freezing his designer dogs sperm.

He did what???



Have I been in a coma?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:42 pm 
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P-F1 Mod wrote:
I'm not removing the racial comments because they don't cross the line yet, but I'd advise that we step away from them. I am assuming the "rodent" post applies the term to everyone, not just black people.

As far as I'm concerned the matter is closed and I hope it stays that way.


Regarding the "rodent" question are you asking me or are you mocking me ? This is a genuine question because I've read my post again, and it seems pretty clear I specified what a rodent is. And I also specified Bolt, Serena as positive examples, just to point out that skin color has nothing to do with it .

Regarding the racial comments, again, if related to my post, I need them pointed out. Just because someone has a s***y character, the color of his skin should not be a deterent to being pointed out as a "s***y person".


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:48 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
I'm not removing the racial comments because they don't cross the line yet, but I'd advise that we step away from them. I am assuming the "rodent" post applies the term to everyone, not just black people.

As far as I'm concerned the matter is closed and I hope it stays that way.


Regarding the "rodent" question are you asking me or are you mocking me ? This is a genuine question because I've read my post again, and it seems pretty clear I specified what a rodent is. And I also specified Bolt, Serena as positive examples, just to point out that skin color has nothing to do with it .

Regarding the racial comments, again, if related to my post, I need them pointed out. Just because someone has a s***y character, the color of his skin should not be a deterent to being pointed out as a "s***y person".


The irony of someone constantly attacking someone and referring to them as a rodent, then saying they have a shi*ty character is obviously lost on some posters.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:14 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:

There are obviously a small number of undesirables who are simply uncomfortable with a black man being successful in traditionally white sport, but I think that's far from the whole story.



Man please don't go into that, look at Bolt, Mo Farrah or even Serena. They are black individuals and very nice. Most of all, they are no "rodents".

Hamilton has a "rodent" character. He is just like a mouse, and the drivers briefing from mexico shows you just that.

He understood from the start what Vettel did, but he kept making wierd faces and ask dum questions.

I for one, do not accept "rodents" around me. I really sometimes get to the point of punching them in the face. If more would punch them in the face, they would start behaving like humans.


Am I the only one who can't quite come to terms with the whole disliking someone for being a "rodent" because of wierd faces and dumb questions, and then continueing on to then advocate assault ??


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Poker wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:

There are obviously a small number of undesirables who are simply uncomfortable with a black man being successful in traditionally white sport, but I think that's far from the whole story.



Man please don't go into that, look at Bolt, Mo Farrah or even Serena. They are black individuals and very nice. Most of all, they are no "rodents".

Hamilton has a "rodent" character. He is just like a mouse, and the drivers briefing from mexico shows you just that.

He understood from the start what Vettel did, but he kept making wierd faces and ask dum questions.

I for one, do not accept "rodents" around me. I really sometimes get to the point of punching them in the face. If more would punch them in the face, they would start behaving like humans.


Am I the only one who can't quite come to terms with the whole disliking someone for being a "rodent" because of wierd faces and dumb questions, and then continueing on to then advocate assault ??


I think most of us just prefer to ignore idiots.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Oops. It's kinda my fault the thread got derailed. But I certainly feel that the aforementioned Hamilton vitriol in youtube comments etc is above and beyond that an arrogant driver should get.

I know the tax situation and him wanting to raise his kids in America has alienated him to those of a centre right/right persuasion too I guess.

He has kids?

BMWSauber84 wrote:
.Brits tend to see extreme confidence as 'tacky'. And his other interests make people uncomfortable it seems. Nigel Mansell wasn't going to fashion shows and freezing his designer dogs sperm.

He did what???



Have I been in a coma?


He hasn't got kids. But he said that when he does have them, he wishes to raise them in Colorado???. It was spun as a "Hamilton snubs Britain again" story in the tabloids.

The dog sperm story is genuine by all accounts. He had Roscoe the dog's sperm frozen so that he could have puppies one day. I assume the dog was neutered shortly afterwards.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:42 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
I'm not removing the racial comments because they don't cross the line yet, but I'd advise that we step away from them. I am assuming the "rodent" post applies the term to everyone, not just black people.

As far as I'm concerned the matter is closed and I hope it stays that way.


Regarding the "rodent" question are you asking me or are you mocking me ? This is a genuine question because I've read my post again, and it seems pretty clear I specified what a rodent is. And I also specified Bolt, Serena as positive examples, just to point out that skin color has nothing to do with it .

Regarding the racial comments, again, if related to my post, I need them pointed out. Just because someone has a s***y character, the color of his skin should not be a deterent to being pointed out as a "s***y person".


It's a strange insult. Dehumanizing someone because you think he's a bad bloke is a bit extreme. Save that kind of nonsense for youtube.

Getting back on track, driver realtionships are a strange thing. In the heat of battle, (especially title battles) relationships can become so strained. For inter-team battles you can multiply that by 10.

Yet time apart can heal a lot of that. Hamilton and Alonso had a toxic relationship at Mclaren, 10 years later they are falling over themselves complimenting each other.

Who can forget Senna telling Prost "we all miss you" on radio on that fateful weekend? Even two years earlier that would have been unthinkable. It boils down to respect. In both examples, both parties respected the ability of the other.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Just in case there was any doubt how much Rosberg got to Hamilton:


https://twitter.com/skysportsf1/status/ ... 9223173121


It sort of reinforces that Nico did the right thing.

Nico is now retired and content.

Lewis may never be content. Maybe if he gets to 8 World Titles, he will be.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Regarding Hamilton/Vettel, I personally don't think Hamilton likes or trusts Vettel, even a little bit. I also doubt Vettel likes Hamilton either. They are both too media savvy to say what they really feel publicly.

This season has shown us more about the two as men than we knew from the past. In my opinion, Hamilton's question to his team asking whether Vettel struck Hamilton's real wheel "on purpose" in Mexico said it all. It was certainly a fair question after the intentional ramming incident earlier this year. If Vettel was someone that Hamilton trusted and respected, he never would have asked that question. I think this is particularly an issue for Hamilton who seems, at least to me, to value his integrity. Giving a place back to Botas earlier in the season when Hamilton was not under orders to do so, the championship was wide open, and Vettel was still ahead in the points made a big impression on me, and I would have respected Hamilton for doing that even if it had cost him the championship at the end of the season. As "Multi21" showed us years ago, Vettel would not have done that. People now discuss the "bromance" between Hamilton and Alonso. Had Alonso nicked Hamilton's rear tire while fighting for position in an important race for the championship, I doubt Hamilton would have even thought to question whether it was intentional. Hamilton has himself nicked a few tires along the way, and no one ever questioned whether it was intentional. Also of note, Hamilton, like others, is quick to apologize when he makes an error that adversely impacts a competitor. To the best of my knowledge, Vettel did not apologize for hitting Hamilton in Mexico and compromising Hamilton's race.

Before anyone accuses me of fanboyism, I am just trying to find insight into how Hamilton feels about Vettel by examining character traits each has demonstrated this year. I have not included my own thoughts about whether Vettel's action in Mexico was intentional. To me, Vettel is a "win at all costs" kind of guy, like Schumacher. There's nothing wrong with that, and it can be an asset. Hamilton seems to value more than just results; he's concerned about how he earns them. They are both fast and great drivers. They are both deserving multiple world champions. If I ran an F1 team, either would be a first choice for driver. But a guy who values integrity over wins is not going to respect or even like someone who doesn't.

Similarly, a guy who values wins at all costs, is not going to be chummy with someone who beats him.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:04 pm 
Covalent wrote:
Don't think there's much of a difference speed wise between Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso. The reason I support Vettel is that unlike the other two he isn't a complete %&#¤%.


That's a good one, good I didn't drink something or I'd spat all over the screen!


Oh... Wait... You, you are serious?!


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:09 pm 
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Mod Edit: Inappropriate post deleted


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:26 pm 
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Even when judged aginst the staggeringly low standards of this forum, this thread has now degenerated into pure trash.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:32 pm 
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Mod Edit: Inappropriate quote deleted

Easy there Cartman. Don't fuel this further. I like this thread and don't want to see it locked, not anyone banned.

Please, let's keep it civil


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