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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:51 pm 
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On the one hand the penalty is a shame. On the other hand he did totally cut the corner. I think it's fair. But I'm actually surprised they handed it out to him, I expected them to shrug and let it go

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:51 pm 
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Mayhem wrote:
And max is given a 5 sec penalty......


I'm so sorry for Max here, as that is a really sucky way to find out he got a penalty for doing what Vettle and others did in gaining their finshes....... :(

I saw plenty of folks abusing the track limits today and while I'm a Kimi fan - it sucks to win 3rd by default......


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:51 pm 
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Haha loved that ending. Max arrogantly boasting about his illegal move and then suddenly noticing Kimi waiting to take what was rightly his.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:51 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Good on Max for going for it but the penalty is correct upon seeing the replay.


Yeah same.

Still glad he went for it though.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:52 pm 
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F1nut wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
And max is given a 5 sec penalty......


I'm so sorry for Max here, as that is a really sucky way to find out he got a penalty for doing what Vettle and others did in gaining their finshes....... :(

I saw plenty of folks abusing the track limits today and while I'm a Kimi fan - it sucks to win 3rd by default......


But they didn't overtake with all four wheels off the track.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:52 pm 
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I think loads of the drivers did a good job today. Verstappen especially. I think Bottas did some of the best defending this race. Especially with ricciardo at the start. His pace wasn't that bad. He did loose a lot of his time but that was partly because of the defending and being so close to other drivers. Bottas does seem to struggle to overtake though. But I do think his defending is a very strong point. Even though what he did on Kimi didn't work out, it was sort of smart thinking. He came back and nearly got fully alongside and past again. It will have cost him less time than defending how he did before.
Verstappen did an excellent job. Kimi looked a lot stronger then usual too. A real shame for Ericsson as I don't think that incident was his fault. A racing incident at the worst. But he looked better than Stroll, Hartly, and Magnussen today.
Kvyat looked really solid this weekend too. He really needed to show this. Good for him. He was within DRS range of Perez ffor over half the race I think. Perez perhaps wasn't as impressive. Fell nearly 10 seconds behind Sainz and his team mate Ocon was ahead of Sainz too. The strategy was a bit strange for Massa but I also think his pace today was really good. So I think most of the drivers did very well today. Some stand out more than others though.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:53 pm 
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Did anyone cut the same corner Max did? If they haven't been punishing other for cutting apices that's really poor.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:54 pm 
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Fair call on Max, shame. But still driver of the day


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Oh well doesn't matter so much, great move by Max, unlucky, (possibly slightly unfair decision?) but probably correct outcome. But we’ll still be talking about Max rather than Kimi going forward.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:02 pm 
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I think people are missing the point about cutting a corner to pass another car including Horner the politician.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:05 pm 
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Biffa wrote:
Oh well doesn't matter so much, great move by Max, unlucky, (possibly slightly unfair decision?) but probably correct outcome. But we’ll still be talking about Max rather than Kimi going forward.
Slightly unfair? Going off track to make a pass is not slightly unfair. It's a clear breach of the rules.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:05 pm 
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@MasterRacer

You must be a very fun guy to watch F1 with. Arrogantly boasting? You really see it that way? Then it's going to be a one way conversation I guess.

This is pure racing amd that's what we like to see. We can talk about the penalty, and I understand the idea behind the penalty, but this was pure class.

If anyone else did this move I would have enjoyed it as much and I would feel the same. I like to see racing and that's what F1 needs now the most.

Kimi drove a good race. He knew 3rd place was not his and he's a sportsman who doesn't want to be there on that podium like this.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:06 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Looked like a slam dunk penalty to me. I agree all the other off track driving should have been punished too though.

SDLRob wrote:
Stupid call by the stewards... Max had so much speed on Kimi that he had two choices.... hit him or go off track to not hit him.

Brake?


I'm not sure, braking was an option. Verstappen was already committed to dive down the inside because Kimi left some space there but then decided to close the gap (slightly). Verstappen went further inside to avoid Kimi but slighty more than necessary and allowed (centimeters) and left the track with all four wheels. That was a potentially great move that has gone wrong by centimeters. Well worth a try.


Last edited by zaar on Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:07 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Biffa wrote:
Oh well doesn't matter so much, great move by Max, unlucky, (possibly slightly unfair decision?) but probably correct outcome. But we’ll still be talking about Max rather than Kimi going forward.
Slightly unfair? Going off track to make a pass is not slightly unfair. It's a clear breach of the rules.


Exactly.

I argued yesterday they were far too lenient on track limits, but if they had let Verstappen keep that place it would have been the crime of the century.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:09 pm 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
If anyone else did this move I would have enjoyed it as much and I would feel the same. I like to see racing and that's what F1 needs now the most.

I think cutting an apex to overtake is a racing ethical horizon. Running four wheels off the track on exit is much more forgivable.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
@MasterRacer

You must be a very fun guy to watch F1 with. Arrogantly boasting? You really see it that way? Then it's going to be a one way conversation I guess.

This is pure racing amd that's what we like to see. We can talk about the penalty, and I understand the idea behind the penalty, but this was pure class.



Well he was arrogantly boasting to Seb about his move. That's a fact.

Pure racing means staying on the racing track.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Gotta start putting barriers on the insides of corners if they don't want the drivers to go there. I think the whole idea of track limits is a farce. You can't enforce a no go zone with a white line. I don't care what they do on the outside of the corners but unless they make the track out of something they can't drive on, they're going to have to put something vertical there.
PS, who were the stewards today?
PPS, how much of the inside does a driver have to legally defend up to the white line, if the driver behind can just go even further inside and just use the grass and whatever else?


Last edited by flyboy10 on Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Seeing Max's onboard, Kimi squeezed him (most likely not intentionally). It was probably worth a bit more of a review before issuing the penalty,

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
@MasterRacer

You must be a very fun guy to watch F1 with. Arrogantly boasting? You really see it that way? Then it's going to be a one way conversation I guess.

This is pure racing amd that's what we like to see. We can talk about the penalty, and I understand the idea behind the penalty, but this was pure class.

If anyone else did this move I would have enjoyed it as much and I would feel the same. I like to see racing and that's what F1 needs now the most.

Kimi drove a good race. He knew 3rd place was not his and he's a sportsman who doesn't want to be there on that podium like this.
There was one good thing about the pass; seeing Kimi's expression when Max saw him, and Max's smile when he saw Kimi, because Max knew the pass wasn't valid.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Go on Mark Webber lol

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Mark Webber on Channel 4 is priceless :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:17 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Mark Webber on Channel 4 is priceless :lol:
Calling it like a true Aussie!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:17 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Mark Webber on Channel 4 is priceless :lol:

Would you mind to enlighten us with some quotes? ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
@MasterRacer

You must be a very fun guy to watch F1 with. Arrogantly boasting? You really see it that way? Then it's going to be a one way conversation I guess.

This is pure racing amd that's what we like to see. We can talk about the penalty, and I understand the idea behind the penalty, but this was pure class.

If anyone else did this move I would have enjoyed it as much and I would feel the same. I like to see racing and that's what F1 needs now the most.

Kimi drove a good race. He knew 3rd place was not his and he's a sportsman who doesn't want to be there on that podium like this.
There was one good thing about the pass; seeing Kimi's expression when Max saw him, and Max's smile when he saw Kimi, because Max knew the pass wasn't valid.


I was impressed with the way Max handled it. He would not have been like that last year. He is only going to get better


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:19 pm 
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flyboy10 wrote:
Gotta start putting barriers on the insides of corners if they don't want the drivers to go there. I think the whole idea of track limits is a farce. You can't enforce a no go zone with a white line. I don't care what they do on the outside of the corners but unless they make the track out of something they can't drive on, they're going to have to put something vertical there.
PS, who were the stewards today?
Mika Salo was the driver-steward. And I don't understand fans who find track limits a farce. Even I know that football uses white lines, and they have no problem enforcing them.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:20 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
I think people are missing the point about cutting a corner to pass another car including Horner the politician.

Horner's got a point about Bottas.

I'm pretty sure Webber and Coulthard would feel differently if they had been on the receiving end of Verstappen.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:20 pm 
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moby wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
@MasterRacer

You must be a very fun guy to watch F1 with. Arrogantly boasting? You really see it that way? Then it's going to be a one way conversation I guess.

This is pure racing amd that's what we like to see. We can talk about the penalty, and I understand the idea behind the penalty, but this was pure class.

If anyone else did this move I would have enjoyed it as much and I would feel the same. I like to see racing and that's what F1 needs now the most.

Kimi drove a good race. He knew 3rd place was not his and he's a sportsman who doesn't want to be there on that podium like this.
There was one good thing about the pass; seeing Kimi's expression when Max saw him, and Max's smile when he saw Kimi, because Max knew the pass wasn't valid.


I was impressed with the way Max handled it. He would not have been like that last year. He is only going to get better

Yea I was too. One thing I can respect about Verstappen that I never used to is his attitude. He is way better now at dealing with these things.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:20 pm 
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IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
This is mental.



How hard is it to enforce rules?! The drivers briefings were eye-opening. I agree with Vettel : "Here's the message to Charlie.. fukc off!"


Speaking of enforcing the rules, bypassing the forum's language filters is a violation of the rules.

Use your thumb if your blanket isn't enough.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:21 pm 
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moby wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
@MasterRacer

You must be a very fun guy to watch F1 with. Arrogantly boasting? You really see it that way? Then it's going to be a one way conversation I guess.

This is pure racing amd that's what we like to see. We can talk about the penalty, and I understand the idea behind the penalty, but this was pure class.

If anyone else did this move I would have enjoyed it as much and I would feel the same. I like to see racing and that's what F1 needs now the most.

Kimi drove a good race. He knew 3rd place was not his and he's a sportsman who doesn't want to be there on that podium like this.
There was one good thing about the pass; seeing Kimi's expression when Max saw him, and Max's smile when he saw Kimi, because Max knew the pass wasn't valid.


I was impressed with the way Max handled it. He would not have been like that last year. He is only going to get better
I doubt he didn't realise it the moment he made the pass.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:21 pm 
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zaar wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Mark Webber on Channel 4 is priceless :lol:

Would you mind to enlighten us with some quotes? ;)

'It was a sh*t decision'


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:21 pm 
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- Merc is in a class of it's own, and so is Hamilton...
- ...But I think I hear remorseful groaning from their pit about signing Bottas for 2018
- Ferrari guys were classy, too
- Massa and Kimi still have plenty of fire in them
- Perez looks like a pussycat now compared to Manager Ocon
- Magnussen should sit out a race
- Pass of the race and probably of the year so far: Vettel on Bottas in sandwich with Vandoorne
- They finally started applying penalties to Max

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Last edited by Lt. Drebin on Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:21 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Looked like a slam dunk penalty to me. I agree all the other off track driving should have been punished too though.

SDLRob wrote:
Stupid call by the stewards... Max had so much speed on Kimi that he had two choices.... hit him or go off track to not hit him.

Brake?


I just feel it's harsh to penalise one driver and not any of the others.


Which other driver left the track with all 4 wheels and made a pass?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:23 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
moby wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
@MasterRacer

You must be a very fun guy to watch F1 with. Arrogantly boasting? You really see it that way? Then it's going to be a one way conversation I guess.

This is pure racing amd that's what we like to see. We can talk about the penalty, and I understand the idea behind the penalty, but this was pure class.

If anyone else did this move I would have enjoyed it as much and I would feel the same. I like to see racing and that's what F1 needs now the most.

Kimi drove a good race. He knew 3rd place was not his and he's a sportsman who doesn't want to be there on that podium like this.
There was one good thing about the pass; seeing Kimi's expression when Max saw him, and Max's smile when he saw Kimi, because Max knew the pass wasn't valid.


I was impressed with the way Max handled it. He would not have been like that last year. He is only going to get better

Yea I was too. One thing I can respect about Verstappen that I never used to is his attitude. He is way better now at dealing with these things.

Might want to revisit that opinion after he called the steward an idiot.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:23 pm 
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Very exciting race. It was very close between top3 teams

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:25 pm 
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MasterRacer wrote:
Haha loved that ending. Max arrogantly boasting about his illegal move and then suddenly noticing Kimi waiting to take what was rightly his.

:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
- Merc is in a class of it's own,


Not when driven by Bottas.

Lt. Drebin wrote:
and so is Hamilton...


Agreed. He is easily the driver of the field.

Lt. Drebin wrote:
- ...But I think I hear remorseful groaning from their pit about signing Bottas for 2018
- Ferrari guys were classy, too
- Massa and Kimi still have plenty of fire in them
- Perez looks like a pussycat now compared to Manager Ocon
- Magnussen should sit out a race

Or two.
Lt. Drebin wrote:
- Pass of the race and probably of the year so far: Vettel on Bottas in sandwich with Vandoorne


Mika Hakkinnen was at the race. I that pass reminded him of his day at Spa against Schumacher.
Lt. Drebin wrote:
- They finally started applying penalties to Max


About time.


Last edited by Herb Tarlik on Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Max said that he gets a penalty point added to his license because of this - is that a standard procedure for 5 second penalties?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Very exciting race. It was very close between top3 teams


It was. Sandman makes good points about Vettel's weekend running so it makes sense that Hamilton was more in tune with his car and had the better race pace regardless of probably (I still believe) having a small edge in race pace regardless for the weekend. Looking at how all the drivers are doing right now the ranking looks like this on form to me:

Hamilton

Verstappen

Vettel
Ricciardo



Raikonnen
Bottas


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:27 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
moby wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
@MasterRacer

You must be a very fun guy to watch F1 with. Arrogantly boasting? You really see it that way? Then it's going to be a one way conversation I guess.

This is pure racing amd that's what we like to see. We can talk about the penalty, and I understand the idea behind the penalty, but this was pure class.

If anyone else did this move I would have enjoyed it as much and I would feel the same. I like to see racing and that's what F1 needs now the most.

Kimi drove a good race. He knew 3rd place was not his and he's a sportsman who doesn't want to be there on that podium like this.
There was one good thing about the pass; seeing Kimi's expression when Max saw him, and Max's smile when he saw Kimi, because Max knew the pass wasn't valid.


I was impressed with the way Max handled it. He would not have been like that last year. He is only going to get better

Yea I was too. One thing I can respect about Verstappen that I never used to is his attitude. He is way better now at dealing with these things.

Might want to revisit that opinion after he called the steward an idiot.

If Vettel was penalized for similar thing a year ago, than I wait the same penalty for Max.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:27 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
moby wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
@MasterRacer

You must be a very fun guy to watch F1 with. Arrogantly boasting? You really see it that way? Then it's going to be a one way conversation I guess.

This is pure racing amd that's what we like to see. We can talk about the penalty, and I understand the idea behind the penalty, but this was pure class.

If anyone else did this move I would have enjoyed it as much and I would feel the same. I like to see racing and that's what F1 needs now the most.

Kimi drove a good race. He knew 3rd place was not his and he's a sportsman who doesn't want to be there on that podium like this.
There was one good thing about the pass; seeing Kimi's expression when Max saw him, and Max's smile when he saw Kimi, because Max knew the pass wasn't valid.


I was impressed with the way Max handled it. He would not have been like that last year. He is only going to get better

Yea I was too. One thing I can respect about Verstappen that I never used to is his attitude. He is way better now at dealing with these things.

Might want to revisit that opinion after he called the steward an idiot.


That should be an infraction too. Charlie needs to sit that child down and put him in his place.


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