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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:04 am 
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I think the headlines of all these websites about Verstappen's new deal are a little misleading. Saying Verstappen is with Red Bull until 2020 makes it sound like he may be in another team in 2020. But I asked on F1 Fanatic and many said he is contracted with Red Bull until the end of 2020. So that means it is 2021 that he will possibly move. That is if what I was told it correct. If this is true, maybe the end of this thread title could be "until end of 2020" as it could cause some confusion. It was basically the same title on F1 fanatic and many were as confused as I first was. If he certainly isn't contracted until the end of 2020, then obviously, the title is fine as it is.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:40 am 
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No sure how happy Sainz will be with this news.

With Horners comments about building a team around Max & Max's statement about being #1, this news ostensibly means, to me anyway, that if Ricciardo goes, and I think its a lay down misere he will, then Sainz will be returning to RB as #2 driver.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:44 am 
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Don't get me wrong but Sainz was number 2 when he was in the team with Max.

Red Bull got the date of their drivers and Max crushed those numbers before he even drove their car. Horner said so in an interview. Marko is a fan which makes it very difficult for the other drivers to be above Max. He also doesn't like Sains senior too much and that doesn't help the situation. I can understand the frustration Sainz had / has but Max clearly is number 1 between the two of them.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:19 pm 
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purchville wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
RIC to Mercedes. They need a proven guy, not Ocon yet.


Agree with this. I suspect it's a done deal for 2019, RBR already know it, hence their desire to lock in Max.

Hamilton and Ricciardo would be a frightening lineup! One of the best ever.

Somehow I see Dan as the odd man out here in the big picture. Mercedes now are firmly Hamilton's team and Ferrari are now Vettel's. Red Bull, it seems, are keen to be Max's team and McLaren are clinging on to the status of being Alonso's team. Ricciardo has #1 driver talent but he doesn't have a team of his own. Part of me feels like his best bet would be to swap with Sainz and become the main man at Renault rather than attempting to join Mercedes or Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:30 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
purchville wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
RIC to Mercedes. They need a proven guy, not Ocon yet.


Agree with this. I suspect it's a done deal for 2019, RBR already know it, hence their desire to lock in Max.

Hamilton and Ricciardo would be a frightening lineup! One of the best ever.

Somehow I see Dan as the odd man out here in the big picture. Mercedes now are firmly Hamilton's team and Ferrari are now Vettel's. Red Bull, it seems, are keen to be Max's team and McLaren are clinging on to the status of being Alonso's team. Ricciardo has #1 driver talent but he doesn't have a team of his own. Part of me feels like his best bet would be to swap with Sainz and become the main man at Renault rather than attempting to join Mercedes or Ferrari.


Might not be a bad shout by the end of next season. Every time Renault enter as a works team they've won and they seem to be taking it just as seriously this time around with some of their recent moves like with Budkowski(sp).

Could be a great seat come 2019/20.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:39 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Part of me feels like his best bet would be to swap with Sainz and become the main man at Renault rather than attempting to join Mercedes or Ferrari.

Ricciardo has nothing to fear from Hamilton if he believes his own hype. He knocked Vettel off his perch, why not Hamilton? Although, I do think avoiding being paired with Hamilton could be a sensible option. Right now, Ricciardo is the man who unseated the legendary Vettel. If Lewis beats him it has a knock on effect and he only has the legacy of unseating the lucky Vettel.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:44 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well I have to admit I didn't see that one coming, I wonder why Verstappen has basically turned down both Ferrari and Mercedes, a chance to go up against either Vettel or Hamilton?
<snip>


He spoke to the Dutch press about that..https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/ ... 09963.html

Max wrote:
Indeed, Verstappen suggested to Algemeen Dagblad newspaper that he would prefer not to switch to Mercedes and Ferrari.
"Lewis [Hamilton] is firmly in place at Mercedes and Sebastian [Vettel] at Ferrari," he said.
"I do not want to be like the second driver. I'd rather stop than do that.
"I also do not think they want to have me as a teammate, and two 'number 1's is also difficult, which showed before with Hamilton and Alonso at McLaren."

You certainly can't say he's arrogant then and like I suggested it was his decision.

Also does he not see Ricciardo as a #1 driver then?


What do you mean with the first sentence sorry, you've lost me?.

He's stuck with Dan for another year either way so it doesn't matter what he sees really.

I mean he's giving due respect to both Hamilton and Vettel.

He said that having two #1s doesn't work so I said what does that make Ricciardo then?

Going forward from this I find it a bit disappointing with Verstappen carrying on the mantra of tier 1 drivers avoiding one another.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:47 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
In some ways, the best aspect of this announcement is that it clearly signals that Red Bull are in it for the long haul. I was starting to get the feeling that they might drop out. Glad that's not the case.

Maybe, maybe not, is it a coincidence that Verstappen's contract runs out the same time as Red Bull's contract with F1, Verstappen after all only extended his contract by 1 year.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:48 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well I have to admit I didn't see that one coming, I wonder why Verstappen has basically turned down both Ferrari and Mercedes, a chance to go up against either Vettel or Hamilton?
<snip>


He spoke to the Dutch press about that..https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/ ... 09963.html

Max wrote:
Indeed, Verstappen suggested to Algemeen Dagblad newspaper that he would prefer not to switch to Mercedes and Ferrari.
"Lewis [Hamilton] is firmly in place at Mercedes and Sebastian [Vettel] at Ferrari," he said.
"I do not want to be like the second driver. I'd rather stop than do that.
"I also do not think they want to have me as a teammate, and two 'number 1's is also difficult, which showed before with Hamilton and Alonso at McLaren."

You certainly can't say he's arrogant then and like I suggested it was his decision.

Also does he not see Ricciardo as a #1 driver then?


What do you mean with the first sentence sorry, you've lost me?.

He's stuck with Dan for another year either way so it doesn't matter what he sees really.

I mean he's giving due respect to both Hamilton and Vettel.

He said that having two #1s doesn't work so I said what does that make Ricciardo then?

Going forward from this I find it a bit disappointing with Verstappen carrying on the mantra of tier 1 drivers avoiding one another.


Agreed. Who's mouth doesn't water at the idea of Hamilton and Verstappen going at it?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:58 pm 
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specdecible wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well I have to admit I didn't see that one coming, I wonder why Verstappen has basically turned down both Ferrari and Mercedes, a chance to go up against either Vettel or Hamilton?
<snip>


He spoke to the Dutch press about that..https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/ ... 09963.html

Max wrote:
Indeed, Verstappen suggested to Algemeen Dagblad newspaper that he would prefer not to switch to Mercedes and Ferrari.
"Lewis [Hamilton] is firmly in place at Mercedes and Sebastian [Vettel] at Ferrari," he said.
"I do not want to be like the second driver. I'd rather stop than do that.
"I also do not think they want to have me as a teammate, and two 'number 1's is also difficult, which showed before with Hamilton and Alonso at McLaren."

You certainly can't say he's arrogant then and like I suggested it was his decision.

Also does he not see Ricciardo as a #1 driver then?

No, it comes across more like he doesn't want ot work with Hamilton or Vettel. He seems to like being teamed up with Ricciardo as they get along off the track.

Like Vettel and Kimi?

What happens if Ricciardo leaves to be replaced by his best buddy Sainz?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:22 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well I have to admit I didn't see that one coming, I wonder why Verstappen has basically turned down both Ferrari and Mercedes, a chance to go up against either Vettel or Hamilton?
<snip>


He spoke to the Dutch press about that..https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/ ... 09963.html

Max wrote:
Indeed, Verstappen suggested to Algemeen Dagblad newspaper that he would prefer not to switch to Mercedes and Ferrari.
"Lewis [Hamilton] is firmly in place at Mercedes and Sebastian [Vettel] at Ferrari," he said.
"I do not want to be like the second driver. I'd rather stop than do that.
"I also do not think they want to have me as a teammate, and two 'number 1's is also difficult, which showed before with Hamilton and Alonso at McLaren."

You certainly can't say he's arrogant then and like I suggested it was his decision.

Also does he not see Ricciardo as a #1 driver then?


What do you mean with the first sentence sorry, you've lost me?.

He's stuck with Dan for another year either way so it doesn't matter what he sees really.

I mean he's giving due respect to both Hamilton and Vettel.

He said that having two #1s doesn't work so I said what does that make Ricciardo then?

Going forward from this I find it a bit disappointing with Verstappen carrying on the mantra of tier 1 drivers avoiding one another.


By saying they don't want Max next to them and he doesn't want relegated to No.2 status?.

Maybe I'm interpreting what Max said wrongly but it reads to me like "I'd rather not go to Mercedes and Ferrari because Lewis and Seb are No.1's and I don't want to be a No.2. And I don't think they want me there anyway as two No.1 doesn't work like we saw in 2007".

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:06 pm 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
Max signed because he feels good right now and can see that the team is improving the way they said they would. They let him in on information and what they are working on.

Marko never hid the fact that he likes to build the team around Max. Dieters himself said it that it is something he wishes the most: winning the title with Max. Horners speaks about it now and Max said being number 2 driver is not something he is going for. Ferrari have Seb, Mercedes have Hamilton.

He now has the confidence in the team that they are doing the best they can to give him that car.

In a Dutch interview Olav Mol (the Dutch commentator) talked about maybe a Mercedes again to Red Bull and that Mercedes is not scared of delevering this engine to their competitor.

Could Eddie Jordan be right and is Mercedes' future in F1 a role of engine supplier and not a team anymore, or is the Mercedes engine just another rumor...

One thing for sure is that we saw Max very relaxed a few weeks ago already. He knows what is going on behind the scenes and they let him in on tech stuff when building the car. Max knows a lot about the technical stuff and he said that testing in the windtunnel is fine but the new car need to be brought out sooner so he can feel what needs to be done.

Red Bull want another succes story like with Sebastian. Their best bet is keeping Max at all cost and build the team around him an give him the car. He sells merchandise, he sells tickets and is popular with the younger audience too. He speaks English very well and also German which in F1 is a great language to be able to speak. He is still young and his learning curve is steep and still going. A bargain at the price they signed him for and clearly could be the future F1 star to dominate the field.

Regarding Mercedes and their engines, Mercedes are contracted to F1 until 2020 same as Verstappen is to Red Bull and even today Wolff said that Mercedes would not supply engines to Red Bull.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:08 pm 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
IMO Mercedes do not have number1 or number2 as seen with Rosberg last year and change in Mechanics etc ... and in Hungary this year. So he should have given more thought.

I think Rosberg's treatment will be the exception rather than the rule. It was clear that Mercedes valued his loyalty to the team and certainly made moves to give him the best chance of beating Hamilton in a plausibly deniable way.

Bottas hasn't commanded the same respect. He was asked to move aside very early in the season and Mercedes were clearly a bit peeved that Hamilton gave the place back in Hungary.

No only Lauda was peeved of whilst Toto banged the table and said yes as in Hamilton did what he thought was best for the team.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You certainly can't say he's arrogant then and like I suggested it was his decision.

Also does he not see Ricciardo as a #1 driver then?


What do you mean with the first sentence sorry, you've lost me?.

He's stuck with Dan for another year either way so it doesn't matter what he sees really.

I mean he's giving due respect to both Hamilton and Vettel.

He said that having two #1s doesn't work so I said what does that make Ricciardo then?

Going forward from this I find it a bit disappointing with Verstappen carrying on the mantra of tier 1 drivers avoiding one another.


By saying they don't want Max next to them and he doesn't want relegated to No.2 status?.

Maybe I'm interpreting what Max said wrongly but it reads to me like "I'd rather not go to Mercedes and Ferrari because Lewis and Seb are No.1's and I don't want to be a No.2. And I don't think they want me there anyway as two No.1 doesn't work like we saw in 2007".

He thinks the drivers wouldn't want him but do the drivers decide that?

What he says is actually confused because he says he doesn't want to be a #2 driver followed by two #1 driver's doesn't work.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:05 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You certainly can't say he's arrogant then and like I suggested it was his decision.

Also does he not see Ricciardo as a #1 driver then?


What do you mean with the first sentence sorry, you've lost me?.

He's stuck with Dan for another year either way so it doesn't matter what he sees really.

I mean he's giving due respect to both Hamilton and Vettel.

He said that having two #1s doesn't work so I said what does that make Ricciardo then?

Going forward from this I find it a bit disappointing with Verstappen carrying on the mantra of tier 1 drivers avoiding one another.


By saying they don't want Max next to them and he doesn't want relegated to No.2 status?.

Maybe I'm interpreting what Max said wrongly but it reads to me like "I'd rather not go to Mercedes and Ferrari because Lewis and Seb are No.1's and I don't want to be a No.2. And I don't think they want me there anyway as two No.1 doesn't work like we saw in 2007".

He thinks the drivers wouldn't want him but do the drivers decide that?

What he says is actually confused because he says he doesn't want to be a #2 driver followed by two #1 driver's doesn't work.

i don't read that as being confused. He's basically saying that he wouldn't want to go there to be a #2, and both teams already have established #1s and wouldn't want another #1 alongside them,


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:08 pm 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
IMO Mercedes do not have number1 or number2 as seen with Rosberg last year and change in Mechanics etc ... and in Hungary this year. So he should have given more thought.

I think Rosberg's treatment will be the exception rather than the rule. It was clear that Mercedes valued his loyalty to the team and certainly made moves to give him the best chance of beating Hamilton in a plausibly deniable way.

Bottas hasn't commanded the same respect. He was asked to move aside very early in the season and Mercedes were clearly a bit peeved that Hamilton gave the place back in Hungary.

I think it was probably more down to the fact that they didn't have any competition and therefore didn't need a number one. What would have been the point? Both titles were in the bag from the get go


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:02 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
What do you mean with the first sentence sorry, you've lost me?.

He's stuck with Dan for another year either way so it doesn't matter what he sees really.

I mean he's giving due respect to both Hamilton and Vettel.

He said that having two #1s doesn't work so I said what does that make Ricciardo then?

Going forward from this I find it a bit disappointing with Verstappen carrying on the mantra of tier 1 drivers avoiding one another.


By saying they don't want Max next to them and he doesn't want relegated to No.2 status?.

Maybe I'm interpreting what Max said wrongly but it reads to me like "I'd rather not go to Mercedes and Ferrari because Lewis and Seb are No.1's and I don't want to be a No.2. And I don't think they want me there anyway as two No.1 doesn't work like we saw in 2007".

He thinks the drivers wouldn't want him but do the drivers decide that?

What he says is actually confused because he says he doesn't want to be a #2 driver followed by two #1 driver's doesn't work.

i don't read that as being confused. He's basically saying that he wouldn't want to go there to be a #2, and both teams already have established #1s and wouldn't want another #1 alongside them,

Fair enough, so we can rule out Ricciardo going to either Mercedes or Ferrari in 2019?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:09 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
purchville wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
RIC to Mercedes. They need a proven guy, not Ocon yet.


Agree with this. I suspect it's a done deal for 2019, RBR already know it, hence their desire to lock in Max.

Hamilton and Ricciardo would be a frightening lineup! One of the best ever.

Somehow I see Dan as the odd man out here in the big picture. Mercedes now are firmly Hamilton's team and Ferrari are now Vettel's. Red Bull, it seems, are keen to be Max's team and McLaren are clinging on to the status of being Alonso's team. Ricciardo has #1 driver talent but he doesn't have a team of his own. Part of me feels like his best bet would be to swap with Sainz and become the main man at Renault rather than attempting to join Mercedes or Ferrari.


Might not be a bad shout by the end of next season. Every time Renault enter as a works team they've won and they seem to be taking it just as seriously this time around with some of their recent moves like with Budkowski(sp).

Could be a great seat come 2019/20.

100% agree. He needs to really think long and hard before his next move because that might turn out to be the best one available. Going to Mercedes or Ferrari, he might end up in a situation where he gets there just as their period of strength comes to a close. Mercedes have already had an extremely long run of being a top car. Odds are that their reign will come to an end soon. For Ferrari, they seem to be in the ascendancy at the moment but their form in the last decade suggests that they might find themselves off the pace as soon as next year.

Unless Red Bull leap-frog both Ferrari and Merc next year, I don't think staying with them makes much sense. They've chosen the horse they want to back. It's really a tough call for Daniel. I think he'd be wise to hold off on making the decision until he knows a lot more about the way things shape up next year. He'll be 29 by the end of next season and he really needs to get this one right.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:16 am 
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Spot on yeah. :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:37 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I mean he's giving due respect to both Hamilton and Vettel.

He said that having two #1s doesn't work so I said what does that make Ricciardo then?

Going forward from this I find it a bit disappointing with Verstappen carrying on the mantra of tier 1 drivers avoiding one another.


By saying they don't want Max next to them and he doesn't want relegated to No.2 status?.

Maybe I'm interpreting what Max said wrongly but it reads to me like "I'd rather not go to Mercedes and Ferrari because Lewis and Seb are No.1's and I don't want to be a No.2. And I don't think they want me there anyway as two No.1 doesn't work like we saw in 2007".

He thinks the drivers wouldn't want him but do the drivers decide that?

What he says is actually confused because he says he doesn't want to be a #2 driver followed by two #1 driver's doesn't work.

i don't read that as being confused. He's basically saying that he wouldn't want to go there to be a #2, and both teams already have established #1s and wouldn't want another #1 alongside them,

Fair enough, so we can rule out Ricciardo going to either Mercedes or Ferrari in 2019?

Now I'm confused. I thought this was about what Max said, not Ricciardo? :?


Last edited by Zoue on Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:12 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
purchville wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
RIC to Mercedes. They need a proven guy, not Ocon yet.


Agree with this. I suspect it's a done deal for 2019, RBR already know it, hence their desire to lock in Max.

Hamilton and Ricciardo would be a frightening lineup! One of the best ever.

Somehow I see Dan as the odd man out here in the big picture. Mercedes now are firmly Hamilton's team and Ferrari are now Vettel's. Red Bull, it seems, are keen to be Max's team and McLaren are clinging on to the status of being Alonso's team. Ricciardo has #1 driver talent but he doesn't have a team of his own. Part of me feels like his best bet would be to swap with Sainz and become the main man at Renault rather than attempting to join Mercedes or Ferrari.

Vettel's stock with Ferrari will diminish if he doesn't deliver the 2018 title.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:52 am 
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GingerFurball wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
purchville wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
RIC to Mercedes. They need a proven guy, not Ocon yet.


Agree with this. I suspect it's a done deal for 2019, RBR already know it, hence their desire to lock in Max.

Hamilton and Ricciardo would be a frightening lineup! One of the best ever.

Somehow I see Dan as the odd man out here in the big picture. Mercedes now are firmly Hamilton's team and Ferrari are now Vettel's. Red Bull, it seems, are keen to be Max's team and McLaren are clinging on to the status of being Alonso's team. Ricciardo has #1 driver talent but he doesn't have a team of his own. Part of me feels like his best bet would be to swap with Sainz and become the main man at Renault rather than attempting to join Mercedes or Ferrari.

Vettel's stock with Ferrari will diminish if he doesn't deliver the 2018 title.

Depends on circumstance. It needs them to deliver a car capable of winning the title, first


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:02 pm 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
They need a proven guy, not Ocon ever.

FTFY. I think Ocon has ultimately harmed his chances at Mercedes by being very consistently slightly slower than Checo. The Silver Arrows need someone faster than Bottas, not slower or similar.

Ricciardo is nailed on for the Mercedes drive in 2019. Hamilton will never face Vettel directly so will relish the chance of beating the man who beat Vettel, indirectly proving himself better.

Where is this idea coming from? Ocon was consistently behind Perez at the start of the season, which was perfectly acceptable for someone who was essentially a rookie in a new team. But they're very much even now. Ocon outqualified Perez this weekend to make it 5-4 in Ocon's favour over the last 9 races

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:11 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
By saying they don't want Max next to them and he doesn't want relegated to No.2 status?.

Maybe I'm interpreting what Max said wrongly but it reads to me like "I'd rather not go to Mercedes and Ferrari because Lewis and Seb are No.1's and I don't want to be a No.2. And I don't think they want me there anyway as two No.1 doesn't work like we saw in 2007".

He thinks the drivers wouldn't want him but do the drivers decide that?

What he says is actually confused because he says he doesn't want to be a #2 driver followed by two #1 driver's doesn't work.

i don't read that as being confused. He's basically saying that he wouldn't want to go there to be a #2, and both teams already have established #1s and wouldn't want another #1 alongside them,

Fair enough, so we can rule out Ricciardo going to either Mercedes or Ferrari in 2019?

Now I'm confused. I thought this was about what Max said, not Ricciardo? :?

Verstappen said that neither Ferrari or Mercedes would want to sign a #1 driver to partner Vettel or Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:31 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
He thinks the drivers wouldn't want him but do the drivers decide that?

What he says is actually confused because he says he doesn't want to be a #2 driver followed by two #1 driver's doesn't work.

i don't read that as being confused. He's basically saying that he wouldn't want to go there to be a #2, and both teams already have established #1s and wouldn't want another #1 alongside them,

Fair enough, so we can rule out Ricciardo going to either Mercedes or Ferrari in 2019?

Now I'm confused. I thought this was about what Max said, not Ricciardo? :?

Verstappen said that neither Ferrari or Mercedes would want to sign a #1 driver to partner Vettel or Hamilton.

So how does Max's opinion rule out Ricciardo going to either Mercedes or Ferrari?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:36 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
i don't read that as being confused. He's basically saying that he wouldn't want to go there to be a #2, and both teams already have established #1s and wouldn't want another #1 alongside them,

Fair enough, so we can rule out Ricciardo going to either Mercedes or Ferrari in 2019?

Now I'm confused. I thought this was about what Max said, not Ricciardo? :?

Verstappen said that neither Ferrari or Mercedes would want to sign a #1 driver to partner Vettel or Hamilton.

So how does Max's opinion rule out Ricciardo going to either Mercedes or Ferrari?

It means that his opinion would be wrong.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:48 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You certainly can't say he's arrogant then and like I suggested it was his decision.

Also does he not see Ricciardo as a #1 driver then?


What do you mean with the first sentence sorry, you've lost me?.

He's stuck with Dan for another year either way so it doesn't matter what he sees really.

I mean he's giving due respect to both Hamilton and Vettel.

He said that having two #1s doesn't work so I said what does that make Ricciardo then?

Going forward from this I find it a bit disappointing with Verstappen carrying on the mantra of tier 1 drivers avoiding one another.


By saying they don't want Max next to them and he doesn't want relegated to No.2 status?.

Maybe I'm interpreting what Max said wrongly but it reads to me like "I'd rather not go to Mercedes and Ferrari because Lewis and Seb are No.1's and I don't want to be a No.2. And I don't think they want me there anyway as two No.1 doesn't work like we saw in 2007".

He thinks the drivers wouldn't want him but do the drivers decide that?

What he says is actually confused because he says he doesn't want to be a #2 driver followed by two #1 driver's doesn't work.


Drivers wishes are listened to for sure, especially drivers who are happy with the status quo and are delivering success but I very much doubt either actually decide or have anything in their deals precluding Max or anyone else.

I'm guessing he believes he wont get a fair crack of the whip at either Mercedes or Ferrari for whatever reason but that's just my take on the comments. Translated comments are a tricky beast as a lot of nuance can be lost though and I think I'm in a minority that got that impression from those comments to be fair.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:56 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
He thinks the drivers wouldn't want him but do the drivers decide that?

What he says is actually confused because he says he doesn't want to be a #2 driver followed by two #1 driver's doesn't work.

i don't read that as being confused. He's basically saying that he wouldn't want to go there to be a #2, and both teams already have established #1s and wouldn't want another #1 alongside them,

Fair enough, so we can rule out Ricciardo going to either Mercedes or Ferrari in 2019?

Now I'm confused. I thought this was about what Max said, not Ricciardo? :?

Verstappen said that neither Ferrari or Mercedes would want to sign a #1 driver to partner Vettel or Hamilton.


He doesn't, he says he doesn't think Seb or Lewis want him there. He says he thinks having two No.1's is difficult.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:14 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fair enough, so we can rule out Ricciardo going to either Mercedes or Ferrari in 2019?

Now I'm confused. I thought this was about what Max said, not Ricciardo? :?

Verstappen said that neither Ferrari or Mercedes would want to sign a #1 driver to partner Vettel or Hamilton.

So how does Max's opinion rule out Ricciardo going to either Mercedes or Ferrari?

It means that his opinion would be wrong.

Not necessarily. For all we know Ricciardo could go to Mercedes and end up being the #2 driver. But maybe Ricciardo will believe that won't happen and will sign up anyway. Or not. But either way Max's opinion will likely have no bearing on where Ricciardo chooses to go and there is no reason to link the two. max's opinion is valid for him only. What point are you making anyway? That no-one should have an opinion?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:28 pm 
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Trying to see the ulterior logic here in Max's decision he probably thought that he's going to be at Red Bull for at least two years as the likelihood of them not finishing in the top 3 next year (his escape clause for 2019) was remote so he probably got a renegotiated contract for the next three years at a higher rate without escape clauses. Wouldn't surprise me if he's on ~€10m a year + win bonuses now for each of the next three years. Even if the next years cars are duds he will still only be 23 at the end of it and much better off financially. Interestingly he has the latest Renault engine spec and Ricciardo doesn't 🤔

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/211 ... -treatment

At this weekend's U.S. Grand Prix, Verstappen's car was fitted with the newest specification of Renault engine which, due to manufacturing constraints, is not expected to be made available to Ricciardo for the rest of year. Ricciardo said he was unaware of the disparity in engine specifications but made clear that he would speak out if he felt the team was giving Verstappen an unfair advantage.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:30 pm 
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Is it insane that a feel there's an outside possibility of a Hamilton/Vettel pairing at Ferrari?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:00 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Is it insane that a feel there's an outside possibility of a Hamilton/Vettel pairing at Ferrari?

Yep.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:14 am 
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Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Is it insane that a feel there's an outside possibility of a Hamilton/Vettel pairing at Ferrari?

Yep.


:lol:

I guess that's that then.

What do you think would be the main thing stopping the pairing?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:57 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
What do you mean with the first sentence sorry, you've lost me?.

He's stuck with Dan for another year either way so it doesn't matter what he sees really.

I mean he's giving due respect to both Hamilton and Vettel.

He said that having two #1s doesn't work so I said what does that make Ricciardo then?

Going forward from this I find it a bit disappointing with Verstappen carrying on the mantra of tier 1 drivers avoiding one another.


By saying they don't want Max next to them and he doesn't want relegated to No.2 status?.

Maybe I'm interpreting what Max said wrongly but it reads to me like "I'd rather not go to Mercedes and Ferrari because Lewis and Seb are No.1's and I don't want to be a No.2. And I don't think they want me there anyway as two No.1 doesn't work like we saw in 2007".

He thinks the drivers wouldn't want him but do the drivers decide that?

What he says is actually confused because he says he doesn't want to be a #2 driver followed by two #1 driver's doesn't work.


Drivers wishes are listened to for sure, especially drivers who are happy with the status quo and are delivering success but I very much doubt either actually decide or have anything in their deals precluding Max or anyone else.

I'm guessing he believes he wont get a fair crack of the whip at either Mercedes or Ferrari for whatever reason but that's just my take on the comments. Translated comments are a tricky beast as a lot of nuance can be lost though and I think I'm in a minority that got that impression from those comments to be fair.

What I find interesting is that it's exactly the same words used by Horner, have Red Bull convinced Verstappen that would be the case?

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Invade wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Is it insane that a feel there's an outside possibility of a Hamilton/Vettel pairing at Ferrari?

Yep.

:lol:

I guess that's that then.

What do you think would be the main thing stopping the pairing?

Fear on Vettel's part. I don't think he ever wants to have either Alonso or Hamilton for a teammate; it wouldn't be pretty.

Probably not a popular answer, but it's how I feel.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:59 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
i don't read that as being confused. He's basically saying that he wouldn't want to go there to be a #2, and both teams already have established #1s and wouldn't want another #1 alongside them,

Fair enough, so we can rule out Ricciardo going to either Mercedes or Ferrari in 2019?

Now I'm confused. I thought this was about what Max said, not Ricciardo? :?

Verstappen said that neither Ferrari or Mercedes would want to sign a #1 driver to partner Vettel or Hamilton.


He doesn't, he says he doesn't think Seb or Lewis want him there. He says he thinks having two No.1's is difficult.

That might be true but going forward doesn't he think that Ricciardo is a #1 driver?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:04 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Now I'm confused. I thought this was about what Max said, not Ricciardo? :?

Verstappen said that neither Ferrari or Mercedes would want to sign a #1 driver to partner Vettel or Hamilton.

So how does Max's opinion rule out Ricciardo going to either Mercedes or Ferrari?

It means that his opinion would be wrong.

Not necessarily. For all we know Ricciardo could go to Mercedes and end up being the #2 driver. But maybe Ricciardo will believe that won't happen and will sign up anyway. Or not. But either way Max's opinion will likely have no bearing on where Ricciardo chooses to go and there is no reason to link the two. max's opinion is valid for him only. What point are you making anyway? That no-one should have an opinion?

I'm just surprised that a driver of his level would think that he could get reduced to being a #2 driver.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:06 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Is it insane that a feel there's an outside possibility of a Hamilton/Vettel pairing at Ferrari?

Probably, Vettel would choose not to go up against Hamilton in the same team.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:09 am 
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Invade wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Is it insane that a feel there's an outside possibility of a Hamilton/Vettel pairing at Ferrari?

Yep.


:lol:

I guess that's that then.

What do you think would be the main thing stopping the pairing?

Hamilton said Vettel.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:01 am 
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There's a pattern forming...

Helmut Marko saying Ricciardo is on the market.
Horner publicly offering Verstappen to build the team around him.
Verstappen's extension announced.
Verstappen gets an engine upgrade and Ricciardo isn't informed.

Ricciardo is probably wishing he didn't have another year to run on his contract with these events. He'll be wanting to exit to Mercedes or Ferrari ASAP.

I understand Red Bull prioritising Verstappen for the long term, he is much younger and probably shows slightly more future potential.

Ricciardo seems to be at his peak and impatient to have a car capable of winning the title.

Either Ricciardo already has an agreement in place (or has at least had talks), or Red Bull are clearing the path for him to go.


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