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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:58 pm 
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Why is the potential driver line up for Williams next year so uninspiring? The amount of talent in the Junior ranks how come none are in the frame?

I've nothing against Massa, Kubica or even Di Restaurants, but surely theres some youngster they could have taken a punt on?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:06 pm 
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William's sponsor Martini needs a driver 25 or older for their alcohol marketing campaign, and I assume they want an experienced driver to mentor Stroll.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:26 pm 
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Put Rosenqvist in! I am sure he would do an excellent Job.

But I guess, yes, they are looking for another driver teacher for Stroll. They should have tried to get Perez before he extended with FI IMO.

A comeback of Kubica could be exciting if he is on form. Di Resta, uninspiring okay, but why not. Massa really would be uninspiring.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Put Rosenqvist in! I am sure he would do an excellent Job.

But I guess, yes, they are looking for another driver teacher for Stroll. They should have tried to get Perez before he extended with FI IMO.

A comeback of Kubica could be exciting if he is on form. Di Resta, uninspiring okay, but why not. Massa really would be uninspiring.

It's sort of funny that you mention Rosenqvist because that's the drivers the Stroll's hired to mentor Lance in F3, of course the difference this time is that Rosenqvist has no F1 experience.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:43 pm 
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I don't understand what is uninspiring about hiring Kubica, if he could make it work they would probably make a film about him.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:14 am 
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After all, it is quite unknown and to some degree doubtful that Kubica and Di Resta can drive on the level with Massa.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:25 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Put Rosenqvist in! I am sure he would do an excellent Job.

But I guess, yes, they are looking for another driver teacher for Stroll. They should have tried to get Perez before he extended with FI IMO.

A comeback of Kubica could be exciting if he is on form. Di Resta, uninspiring okay, but why not. Massa really would be uninspiring.

Why? Don't get me wrong, Stroll has been pretty solid for the most part but I don't see greatness there. It's one thing to let him pay for his seat. it;s another thing alltogether to build the team around him. IMO there are only 5 drivers in F1 who are worth doing that for and he's not one of them.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:13 am 
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Massa is done due to his loss of pace. Be nice to see Button come back but I guess that would be little better than Massa in some regards. Too much risk with RK physically. I go with Di Restaurant.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:39 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
After all, it is quite unknown and to some degree doubtful that Kubica and Di Resta can drive on the level with Massa.


If Stroll can do it....


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:52 am 
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Is it just me or does it seem like Massa's pace and energy has really dropped off since his mystery sickness back in Hungary?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:52 am 
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For me a potential Kubica comeback is pretty inspiring.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:33 am 
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I don't get the Kubica fairytale at all. He injured his hand but was still able to race cars at a very high level (WEC cars, WRC cars etc)

People go on likes he's Lazarus


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:29 am 
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This Di Restaurant guy sounds OK. :nod:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:42 am 
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veffy wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem like Massa's pace and energy has really dropped off since his mystery sickness back in Hungary?


I feel like his pace and energy has dropped off since around 2009. He & Kimi should read books together.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:13 am 
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Ennis wrote:
veffy wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem like Massa's pace and energy has really dropped off since his mystery sickness back in Hungary?


I feel like his pace and energy has dropped off since around 2009. He & Kimi should read books together.


If they could keep Di Resta, they should've kept Sutil as well in the list.

Di Resta is anyway there because of Mercedes connections. But I hope Massa retires. Want to see a new face in his seat.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:19 am 
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Kubica is the only remotely exciting prospect for me, though considering his probable level if he came back I'd probably prefer seeing Wehrlein or even Giovinazzi in that car. But OK, Martini. Unfortunate.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:27 am 
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I'd like to see Kubica come back but only if he can prove that he can cope physically with a whole race weekend on a regular basis, perhaps if they signed him on a race by race basis or signed him for half a season at first and then reviewed the situation half way through and if he's struggling put Di Resta in the car for the remaining races. Having Martini only allowing someone over 25 in the car does not help the situation. I did also wonder if Williams had approached Rosberg about coming back (not that I would want him to).


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:39 am 
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My quandary with Williams is not that the drivers are uninspiring but rather they are a bit of an unknown quantity. For example I’d like to see where Alonso could place the car.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:57 am 
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Biffa wrote:
My quandary with Williams is not that the drivers are uninspiring but rather they are a bit of an unknown quantity. For example I’d like to see where Alonso could place the car.


I read somewhere that the '18 car will be a complete overhaul & will have substantial inputs from Paddy Lowe. A lot is expected from Williams next year.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:30 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Biffa wrote:
My quandary with Williams is not that the drivers are uninspiring but rather they are a bit of an unknown quantity. For example I’d like to see where Alonso could place the car.


I read somewhere that the '18 car will be a complete overhaul & will have substantial inputs from Paddy Lowe. A lot is expected from Williams next year.

While I expect the 2018 car to be a step up in terms of design philsophy, I think the lesson should be learned from James Allison's stint at Ferrari to not expect a full performance turnaround from the first new car. While Ferrari will definitely credit the present team as having all of the glory for where they are now (and indeed, they will have had the most sizable impact on it and I don't wish to diminish what they have achieve) given that Formula 1 cars are a constant evolution (and despite the 'dramatic' differences to car design this season, they are still continuing the philosophies of previous seasons, just with new limits on what they are allowed to do) meaning that I would expect that many of the structural changes Allison made did not come to fruition until this season.

Designing a good F1 car isn't just about good ideas, it's about a team learning to operate in a new way.
A very simple example is a football team suddenly having to play in a different formation. It may be that the new formation is a much better philosophy, but the players were used to playing the other way so could get the maximum of the potential of their old method compared to a less efficient potential of the better one.

While the 2018 car should be better than their 2017 one, it is 2019 that I would have patience for before expecting them to be challenging at a significantly higher level.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:09 am 
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I was never really on the Kubica hype train, but I've got to say I'd like to see him make a comeback to F1. As much as anything because I'm curious as to whether he'd be able to perform close to the level he was at prior to his accident. And as a Massa fan, I'm actually okay with him retiring (for sure) this time. There is nothing to get excited about seeing him driving a Williams which, most weekends, is in a battle just to make it into Q3. And I don't believe they're about to make a significant step forward to change that; if anything I think Renault and McLaren will be ahead next year. It's as good a time as any for Massa to get out of F1.

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This Di Restaurant guy sounds OK. :nod:


Only if he provides a fast (food) alternative...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:52 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Ennis wrote:
veffy wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem like Massa's pace and energy has really dropped off since his mystery sickness back in Hungary?


I feel like his pace and energy has dropped off since around 2009. He & Kimi should read books together.


If they could keep Di Resta, they should've kept Sutil as well in the list.

Di Resta is anyway there because of Mercedes connections. But I hope Massa retires. Want to see a new face in his seat.

That just sounds wrong. :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:12 pm 
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Ennis wrote:
veffy wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem like Massa's pace and energy has really dropped off since his mystery sickness back in Hungary?


I feel like his pace and energy has dropped off since around 2009. He & Kimi should read books together.


After the spring thing he really lost some of his pace.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:06 pm 
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So do Williams not have links to any drivers or teams in the feeder series?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:27 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
So do Williams not have links to any drivers or teams in the feeder series?


I think they still have Alex Lynn. Yet to turn 25 though.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:29 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
Why is the potential driver line up for Williams next year so uninspiring?


Because Williams is a very, very uninspiring team.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:30 pm 
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veffy wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem like Massa's pace and energy has really dropped off since his mystery sickness back in Hungary?


Massa became a shell of his former self loooong before Hungary. Years ago.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:35 pm 
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I like Kubica as a person, but I never quite bought into the hype. One attrition based win and a minimal margin over Heideld wasnt enough to convince me. I know the other drivers rate him, but I also remember Fisichella being viewed in the same way..

Di Resta, again, nice enough guy, had a shot but didn't really show signs if being anything more than competent.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:52 pm 
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Zazu wrote:
I don't get the Kubica fairytale at all. He injured his hand but was still able to race cars at a very high level (WEC cars, WRC cars etc)

People go on likes he's Lazarus

He just injured his hand? His arm was nearly severed.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:59 pm 
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LBET wrote:
Ennis wrote:
veffy wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem like Massa's pace and energy has really dropped off since his mystery sickness back in Hungary?


I feel like his pace and energy has dropped off since around 2009. He & Kimi should read books together.


After the spring thing he really lost some of his pace.

No he came up against Alonso who beat him the way Schumacher beat him which Kimi was unable to do.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:59 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
So do Williams not have links to any drivers or teams in the feeder series?

No

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:01 pm 
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mds wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
So do Williams not have links to any drivers or teams in the feeder series?


I think they still have Alex Lynn. Yet to turn 25 though.

He gave up on F1 after poor performances and went to the WEC I think?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:03 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
I like Kubica as a person, but I never quite bought into the hype. One attrition based win and a minimal margin over Heideld wasnt enough to convince me. I know the other drivers rate him, but I also remember Fisichella being viewed in the same way..

Di Resta, again, nice enough guy, had a shot but didn't really show signs if being anything more than competent.

I sort of agree but sometimes Kubica was capable of outstanding performances.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:29 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
I like Kubica as a person, but I never quite bought into the hype. One attrition based win and a minimal margin over Heideld wasnt enough to convince me. I know the other drivers rate him, but I also remember Fisichella being viewed in the same way..

Di Resta, again, nice enough guy, had a shot but didn't really show signs if being anything more than competent.

He was the star of the show for me in 2008. Spinning off in Silverstone is the only time I can recall him putting a foot wrong. And blew me away a number of times in 2010 - so much so that I still think he put a better season together than any of the title contenders

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:32 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
I like Kubica as a person, but I never quite bought into the hype. One attrition based win and a minimal margin over Heideld wasnt enough to convince me. I know the other drivers rate him, but I also remember Fisichella being viewed in the same way..

Di Resta, again, nice enough guy, had a shot but didn't really show signs if being anything more than competent.

I sort of agree but sometimes Kubica was capable of outstanding performances.


Maybe that would suit Williams better. Reliable to bring home points without showing up the 'other' driver, even if only at times. He is seen on tv and keeps the public face, and is 'mates' with the commentators so there would be extra coverage of the Williams name, as there is of RBR with DC and Webbo. Known entity with little abrasion and a good yardstick without the flash to detract from the chosen one, who incidentally is coming along well so if he beats PD so much the better for them.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:45 am 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
I like Kubica as a person, but I never quite bought into the hype. One attrition based win and a minimal margin over Heideld wasnt enough to convince me. I know the other drivers rate him, but I also remember Fisichella being viewed in the same way..

Di Resta, again, nice enough guy, had a shot but didn't really show signs if being anything more than competent.

Heidfeld also said that Kimi was his fastest team mate by some margin. Although it was at the height of Kubica hype in 2008, so he may have just been a bit miffed / passive aggressive.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:54 am 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
I like Kubica as a person, but I never quite bought into the hype. One attrition based win and a minimal margin over Heideld wasnt enough to convince me. I know the other drivers rate him, but I also remember Fisichella being viewed in the same way..

Di Resta, again, nice enough guy, had a shot but didn't really show signs if being anything more than competent.

Heidfeld also said that Kimi was his fastest team mate by some margin. Although it was at the height of Kubica hype in 2008, so he may have just been a bit miffed / passive aggressive.


And he also had Kimi covered for speed.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:58 am 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
I like Kubica as a person, but I never quite bought into the hype. One attrition based win and a minimal margin over Heideld wasnt enough to convince me. I know the other drivers rate him, but I also remember Fisichella being viewed in the same way..

Di Resta, again, nice enough guy, had a shot but didn't really show signs if being anything more than competent.

The unknown is what getting another chance at F1 brings to the table in terms of temperament. Both these guys would be salivating at the idea of another go at F1, but its a different kind of motivation because they've been there before, know what to expect, but also know how rare it is to get a second chance. Mentally they would be approaching it like being able to re-live your 20s with the knowledge of your 30s, and that could translate into lap times.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:15 am 
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mcdo wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
I like Kubica as a person, but I never quite bought into the hype. One attrition based win and a minimal margin over Heideld wasnt enough to convince me. I know the other drivers rate him, but I also remember Fisichella being viewed in the same way..

Di Resta, again, nice enough guy, had a shot but didn't really show signs if being anything more than competent.

He was the star of the show for me in 2008. Spinning off in Silverstone is the only time I can recall him putting a foot wrong. And blew me away a number of times in 2010 - so much so that I still think he put a better season together than any of the title contenders


I think Kubica is a solid driver but when his benchmark was Nick Heidfeld and Vitaly Petrov, I'm unsure I could bestow such accolades on him. Nick beat him in 07 and 09.
It would have been interesting to see him against a rated team mate as to better gauge where he really stood.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:04 am 
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Laz_T800 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
I like Kubica as a person, but I never quite bought into the hype. One attrition based win and a minimal margin over Heideld wasnt enough to convince me. I know the other drivers rate him, but I also remember Fisichella being viewed in the same way..

Di Resta, again, nice enough guy, had a shot but didn't really show signs if being anything more than competent.

He was the star of the show for me in 2008. Spinning off in Silverstone is the only time I can recall him putting a foot wrong. And blew me away a number of times in 2010 - so much so that I still think he put a better season together than any of the title contenders


I think Kubica is a solid driver but when his benchmark was Nick Heidfeld and Vitaly Petrov, I'm unsure I could bestow such accolades on him. Nick beat him in 07 and 09.
It would have been interesting to see him against a rated team mate as to better gauge where he really stood.

2007 was Kubica's first full season. Heidfeld also beat Raikkonen in 2001

Either way I greatly admired Heidfeld. I don't know if any other modern day driver was screwed over so many times.
- Lined up for a McLaren seat - in walks Kimi
- First (and only) genuine opportunity at a race win - aaah we'll go with the other guy
- Lined up for a Mercedes seat - in walks Michael bloody Schumacher
- Driving a Lotus with the dodgiest of designs - gets the sack. Then of course they put together their stellar 2012 machine :uhoh:

Dude couldn't catch a break. And now he's Quick Nick with the most races/no wins record, a journeyman teammate that you should be embarrassed to lose to. Well he was no all-time great but he was better than the stats show

What does the guy in the other car have to do with it anyway? Kubica drove better than anyone else in 2008 and there's a strong case for 2010. Put Fred Flintstone in the other BMW or Renault and I don't know why that should lessen Kubica's performance. It's an open secret that he was going to be in the other Ferrari in 2012. The match-up you crave would have happened if things didn't go a certain way

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