planetf1.com

It is currently Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:54 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 14176
UnlikeUday wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Kev627 wrote:
CC78AMG wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/42579911

With the drivers confirmed for 2018 what are people expecting from Williams this year?


8th in the WCC


Massa said that the car looks more aggressive from what he's seen in the wind tunnel before leaving Williams. Even if the car is good, I doubt Stroll & Sirotkin would do justice to the car. Force India, McLaren & Renault have a much better lineup than this pair.


I think the Williams car will have to be the 6th best to finish 8th in the WCC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27867
mikeyg123 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Kev627 wrote:
CC78AMG wrote:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/42579911

With the drivers confirmed for 2018 what are people expecting from Williams this year?


8th in the WCC


Massa said that the car looks more aggressive from what he's seen in the wind tunnel before leaving Williams. Even if the car is good, I doubt Stroll & Sirotkin would do justice to the car. Force India, McLaren & Renault have a much better lineup than this pair.


I think the Williams car will have to be the 6th best to finish 8th in the WCC

I wonder how much interest there will be in the Williams drivers this year, Stroll is the lead driver and he was half a second slower than Massa, it's a bit like a team without a sail.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 6672
Location: Mumbai, India
It's going to be 1 of the most boring line-ups! I still think Haas is the most boring. Sauber even is better just because of Leclerc. The most electric lineup is of Red Bull & the most eye catching is Force India pair because of their friction & feuds.

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 14176
pokerman wrote:
I wonder how much interest there will be in the Williams drivers this year, Stroll is the lead driver and he was half a second slower than Massa, it's a bit like a team without a sail.


Both drivers may well be fairly similar in performance which means if the car is really good and they score consistent points both drivers will end up getting rated well. If the car is not really good then Williams will really struggle to score and both will be slated.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 371
Location: b. c. canada
My hope is that the car is really good and the drivers suprise the s#it out of all the negative nellies that post in this thread. Love it that they have gone with a canadian and a russian as their drivers instead of the usual suspects. Williams did quite well with the last canadian that drove for them. Now if they could get an american driver in one of the teams might make formula more relevant to the american audience.

Next year will be the big test for stroll as he has had a year to get up to speed and now he will need to prove he belongs. I think he knows this better than anyone else. He has shown flashes of speed but now he needs to be consistent to shut up his critics.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 14176
spiritone wrote:
My hope is that the car is really good and the drivers suprise the s#it out of all the negative nellies that post in this thread. Love it that they have gone with a canadian and a russian as their drivers instead of the usual suspects. Williams did quite well with the last canadian that drove for them. Now if they could get an american driver in one of the teams might make formula more relevant to the american audience.

Next year will be the big test for stroll as he has had a year to get up to speed and now he will need to prove he belongs. I think he knows this better than anyone else. He has shown flashes of speed but now he needs to be consistent to shut up his critics.


I would argue he was pretty consistent last year.

And how do we judge either drivers performance next year? If the car is better than expected and the drivers regularly score they will be rated highly. If the car is poor and they don't then they won't.

With no benchmark our opinions of the drivers will be entirely down to the car. If the Williams turns up with the best car and Stroll and Sirotin nab the occasional podium and score points regularly then people will rave about them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 371
Location: b. c. canada
Interesting that stroll has been the fastest driver on his team which has rosenqvist, juncadella, frijns at the daytona 24. Should be interesting race.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27867
mikeyg123 wrote:
spiritone wrote:
My hope is that the car is really good and the drivers suprise the s#it out of all the negative nellies that post in this thread. Love it that they have gone with a canadian and a russian as their drivers instead of the usual suspects. Williams did quite well with the last canadian that drove for them. Now if they could get an american driver in one of the teams might make formula more relevant to the american audience.

Next year will be the big test for stroll as he has had a year to get up to speed and now he will need to prove he belongs. I think he knows this better than anyone else. He has shown flashes of speed but now he needs to be consistent to shut up his critics.


I would argue he was pretty consistent last year.

And how do we judge either drivers performance next year? If the car is better than expected and the drivers regularly score they will be rated highly. If the car is poor and they don't then they won't.

With no benchmark our opinions of the drivers will be entirely down to the car. If the Williams turns up with the best car and Stroll and Sirotin nab the occasional podium and score points regularly then people will rave about them.

Testing reports say that both drivers are a down grade on Massa so it would be hard for me to see past that.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 5887
Location: Michigan, USA
mikeyg123 wrote:
spiritone wrote:
Next year will be the big test for stroll as he has had a year to get up to speed and now he will need to prove he belongs. I think he knows this better than anyone else. He has shown flashes of speed but now he needs to be consistent to shut up his critics.

I would argue he was pretty consistent last year.

He was consistent? In what possible way?

Scoring? He started the year failing to score in any of six races, then he scored in three straight, then failed to score for another three, then three straight again, then even that pattern broke down at the end.

Gap to Massa? Not that either. Yes, he was usually behind Massa in qualifying, but the gap fluctuated wildly. In a five-race span between Belgium and Japan, he was 1.1 seconds down, then 1.2 seconds up, then 7 tenths down, then only 3 tenths down, then suddenly back up to 1.1 seconds down again. His pace was as much as two seconds different relative to Massa from one weekend to the next. That's a huge difference.

Crashing? This would be the only place he was consistent, since he only had one at-fault collision all year long, and no retirements due to collisions after his first three races.

_________________
PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9898
Location: Travelling around the world
Exediron wrote:
mcdo wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Stiffer competition would be the main reason. Lets face it during the last couple of years FI only had to beat teams with much inferior engines, a newcomer in Haas, and the mess that is Williams. They are still miles off the top three teams. So no, not at all unlikely.

We've been hearing about FI's incoming drop down the grid for a few years now. Still waiting

The upward trend will stop eventually but nobody knows when

It already has stopped; 4th is the highest Force India can ever hope to go, without something dramatic changing in either the structure of F1 or FI's own finances. They will never beat one of the big three teams as things stand.

The threat to Force India's current position as king of the midfield isn't that they'll suddenly get worse, it's that one of the other teams will get better. Renault and McLaren both have the resources to be well ahead of them, and certainly Renault has been on a sharp upward trajectory since they started developing their own car. There's a very good chance I would say that one or both of those teams will be ahead of FI this year. Although if it's because Macca and Renault have joined the ranks of the top teams, you could argue that Force India would still be the best midfield team, just king of a smaller midfield.

Sauber beating Force India, though? I don't see it happening, not unless the Alfa deal is firming up their budget by a substantial amount. Compared to Force India, Sauber will have a weaker engine (albeit not much), at least one weaker driver (and probably two, with Leclerc being a rookie) and a much weaker car to start from. It's just not a plausible target for 2018.

It hasn't stopped, their 2017 was better than 2016. More points scored (with one fewer race) and the gap between them and 5th place grew substantially

Has it begun to plateau? Sure. But they've still improved year-on-year going all the way back to 2013

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 6672
Location: Mumbai, India
mcdo wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mcdo wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Stiffer competition would be the main reason. Lets face it during the last couple of years FI only had to beat teams with much inferior engines, a newcomer in Haas, and the mess that is Williams. They are still miles off the top three teams. So no, not at all unlikely.

We've been hearing about FI's incoming drop down the grid for a few years now. Still waiting

The upward trend will stop eventually but nobody knows when

It already has stopped; 4th is the highest Force India can ever hope to go, without something dramatic changing in either the structure of F1 or FI's own finances. They will never beat one of the big three teams as things stand.

The threat to Force India's current position as king of the midfield isn't that they'll suddenly get worse, it's that one of the other teams will get better. Renault and McLaren both have the resources to be well ahead of them, and certainly Renault has been on a sharp upward trajectory since they started developing their own car. There's a very good chance I would say that one or both of those teams will be ahead of FI this year. Although if it's because Macca and Renault have joined the ranks of the top teams, you could argue that Force India would still be the best midfield team, just king of a smaller midfield.

Sauber beating Force India, though? I don't see it happening, not unless the Alfa deal is firming up their budget by a substantial amount. Compared to Force India, Sauber will have a weaker engine (albeit not much), at least one weaker driver (and probably two, with Leclerc being a rookie) and a much weaker car to start from. It's just not a plausible target for 2018.

It hasn't stopped, their 2017 was better than 2016. More points scored (with one fewer race) and the gap between them and 5th place grew substantially

Has it begun to plateau? Sure. But they've still improved year-on-year going all the way back to 2013


2018 will be their toughest season yet. Williams may or may not improve but McLaren will surely, if not Renault. 4th will be hard to replicate.

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:28 pm
Posts: 761
So it's pretty much nailed on for Stroll and Sirotkin for 2018.

Let's hope that one of them can set a car up properly..

_________________
Should I grow a beard?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 6672
Location: Mumbai, India
Yellowbin74 wrote:
So it's pretty much nailed on for Stroll and Sirotkin for 2018.

Let's hope that one of them can set a car up properly..


Setting up the car is not a priority..just bring in the money into Williams account.

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:28 pm
Posts: 761
UnlikeUday wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
So it's pretty much nailed on for Stroll and Sirotkin for 2018.

Let's hope that one of them can set a car up properly..


Setting up the car is not a priority..just bring in the money into Williams account.


It's a very short term solution though if they are lacking in constructors funds next year.

_________________
Should I grow a beard?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9898
Location: Travelling around the world
UnlikeUday wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mcdo wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Stiffer competition would be the main reason. Lets face it during the last couple of years FI only had to beat teams with much inferior engines, a newcomer in Haas, and the mess that is Williams. They are still miles off the top three teams. So no, not at all unlikely.

We've been hearing about FI's incoming drop down the grid for a few years now. Still waiting

The upward trend will stop eventually but nobody knows when

It already has stopped; 4th is the highest Force India can ever hope to go, without something dramatic changing in either the structure of F1 or FI's own finances. They will never beat one of the big three teams as things stand.

The threat to Force India's current position as king of the midfield isn't that they'll suddenly get worse, it's that one of the other teams will get better. Renault and McLaren both have the resources to be well ahead of them, and certainly Renault has been on a sharp upward trajectory since they started developing their own car. There's a very good chance I would say that one or both of those teams will be ahead of FI this year. Although if it's because Macca and Renault have joined the ranks of the top teams, you could argue that Force India would still be the best midfield team, just king of a smaller midfield.

Sauber beating Force India, though? I don't see it happening, not unless the Alfa deal is firming up their budget by a substantial amount. Compared to Force India, Sauber will have a weaker engine (albeit not much), at least one weaker driver (and probably two, with Leclerc being a rookie) and a much weaker car to start from. It's just not a plausible target for 2018.

It hasn't stopped, their 2017 was better than 2016. More points scored (with one fewer race) and the gap between them and 5th place grew substantially

Has it begun to plateau? Sure. But they've still improved year-on-year going all the way back to 2013


2018 will be their toughest season yet. Williams may or may not improve but McLaren will surely, if not Renault. 4th will be hard to replicate.

I don't disagree. It's just that we see this talk at the start of every year. Funnily enough FI tend to start slow and they've often looked like they've dropped behind during the flyaway races

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 5887
Location: Michigan, USA
mcdo wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mcdo wrote:
We've been hearing about FI's incoming drop down the grid for a few years now. Still waiting

The upward trend will stop eventually but nobody knows when

It already has stopped; 4th is the highest Force India can ever hope to go, without something dramatic changing in either the structure of F1 or FI's own finances. They will never beat one of the big three teams as things stand.

The threat to Force India's current position as king of the midfield isn't that they'll suddenly get worse, it's that one of the other teams will get better. Renault and McLaren both have the resources to be well ahead of them, and certainly Renault has been on a sharp upward trajectory since they started developing their own car. There's a very good chance I would say that one or both of those teams will be ahead of FI this year. Although if it's because Macca and Renault have joined the ranks of the top teams, you could argue that Force India would still be the best midfield team, just king of a smaller midfield.

Sauber beating Force India, though? I don't see it happening, not unless the Alfa deal is firming up their budget by a substantial amount. Compared to Force India, Sauber will have a weaker engine (albeit not much), at least one weaker driver (and probably two, with Leclerc being a rookie) and a much weaker car to start from. It's just not a plausible target for 2018.

It hasn't stopped, their 2017 was better than 2016. More points scored (with one fewer race) and the gap between them and 5th place grew substantially

Has it begun to plateau? Sure. But they've still improved year-on-year going all the way back to 2013

[replaced with the correct quotes to make it easier to follow!]

You mentioned their incoming drop down the grid specifically, which to me would mean position instead of pace. By that same measure, their upward trend has stopped; they aren't going to be moving up the grid unless something dramatic changes in F1.

I agree that Force India gapped the midfield a little more this year, but they didn't do anything to catch any of Red Bull, Ferrari and Merceces, which is what they'd need to move up the grid.

_________________
PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 371
Location: b. c. canada
Williams doom and gloom. Couldn't be the same posters that predicted that hamilton moving to merc was going to ruin his career.

Paddy i hope you and your crew designed a bullet to run over all the negative nellies on this board. As for setups, it's the engineers that setup the cars with input from drivers. That as one area where williams had a big problem last year trying, to get their car into the right window, especially with strolls car.

I can't wait till testing starts to see if my hunch is right.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27867
spiritone wrote:
Williams doom and gloom. Couldn't be the same posters that predicted that hamilton moving to merc was going to ruin his career.

Paddy i hope you and your crew designed a bullet to run over all the negative nellies on this board. As for setups, it's the engineers that setup the cars with input from drivers. That as one area where williams had a big problem last year trying, to get their car into the right window, especially with strolls car.

I can't wait till testing starts to see if my hunch is right.

That's a little bit different with Hamilton they were questioning Mercedes, with Williams posters are questioning the drivers.

Also you've kind of highlighted one problem yourself when you mention the input from the drivers, you mention Stroll not being able to get his car into the right window, I guess you're not blaming his engineer for that?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9898
Location: Travelling around the world
Exediron wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mcdo wrote:
We've been hearing about FI's incoming drop down the grid for a few years now. Still waiting

The upward trend will stop eventually but nobody knows when

It already has stopped; 4th is the highest Force India can ever hope to go, without something dramatic changing in either the structure of F1 or FI's own finances. They will never beat one of the big three teams as things stand.

The threat to Force India's current position as king of the midfield isn't that they'll suddenly get worse, it's that one of the other teams will get better. Renault and McLaren both have the resources to be well ahead of them, and certainly Renault has been on a sharp upward trajectory since they started developing their own car. There's a very good chance I would say that one or both of those teams will be ahead of FI this year. Although if it's because Macca and Renault have joined the ranks of the top teams, you could argue that Force India would still be the best midfield team, just king of a smaller midfield.

Sauber beating Force India, though? I don't see it happening, not unless the Alfa deal is firming up their budget by a substantial amount. Compared to Force India, Sauber will have a weaker engine (albeit not much), at least one weaker driver (and probably two, with Leclerc being a rookie) and a much weaker car to start from. It's just not a plausible target for 2018.

It hasn't stopped, their 2017 was better than 2016. More points scored (with one fewer race) and the gap between them and 5th place grew substantially

Has it begun to plateau? Sure. But they've still improved year-on-year going all the way back to 2013

[replaced with the correct quotes to make it easier to follow!]

You mentioned their incoming drop down the grid specifically, which to me would mean position instead of pace. By that same measure, their upward trend has stopped; they aren't going to be moving up the grid unless something dramatic changes in F1.

I agree that Force India gapped the midfield a little more this year, but they didn't do anything to catch any of Red Bull, Ferrari and Merceces, which is what they'd need to move up the grid.

It's all one and the same really, improvement is improvement. So moving up in the WCC has reached its ceiling, they still improved by putting themselves in an untouchable position in that 4th place throughout 2017. How does a team like that improve from here? I don't know, something similar to 2017 but with a return to the podium I guess

I remember when their WCC 5th place finish was an amazing achievement. It was barely believable even then that they would be in the position they have been in this past year

Force India are certainly up against it if they hope to replicate their recent run. It's just... we've heard that before. I'll reserve judgement until we've seen a few races

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 371
Location: b. c. canada
Yes, strolls engineer definitely has to take some of the blame for the inconsistency on that side of the garage. Posters keep mentioning that stroll is "sawing" at the wheel. If i setup a car and the driver is sawing at the wheel,i have to take the blame for not doing a good enough job. With todays F1 car being so telemetry dependent the drivers engineer becomes even more important. The driver/engineer compatibility is ultra important.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion about williams drivers but i quess i look at it more from a view of it being a team problem. There are no bad drivers in F1. These drivers have all had success at lower formulas or they wouldn't be in F1, money or not. What makes the difference is the personal around them. So when posters say the car is 80% of the equation, then don't rag on the drivers for being the chief reason the team finishes where it does.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 14176
spiritone wrote:
Yes, strolls engineer definitely has to take some of the blame for the inconsistency on that side of the garage. Posters keep mentioning that stroll is "sawing" at the wheel. If i setup a car and the driver is sawing at the wheel,i have to take the blame for not doing a good enough job. With todays F1 car being so telemetry dependent the drivers engineer becomes even more important. The driver/engineer compatibility is ultra important.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion about williams drivers but i quess i look at it more from a view of it being a team problem. There are no bad drivers in F1. These drivers have all had success at lower formulas or they wouldn't be in F1, money or not. What makes the difference is the personal around them. So when posters say the car is 80% of the equation, then don't rag on the drivers for being the chief reason the team finishes where it does.


Nobody is blaming Stroll for the car not winning the WCC. They are saying Williams may finish lower than there car deserves in the WCC. That is putting most of the onus on the car. There may be no bad drivers but there are bad drivers by F1 standards. In his debut season Stroll was one. I think he will run Sirotkin close. If the car is very good people will say that's impressive if it isn't people will say it's disappointing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27867
spiritone wrote:
Yes, strolls engineer definitely has to take some of the blame for the inconsistency on that side of the garage. Posters keep mentioning that stroll is "sawing" at the wheel. If i setup a car and the driver is sawing at the wheel,i have to take the blame for not doing a good enough job. With todays F1 car being so telemetry dependent the drivers engineer becomes even more important. The driver/engineer compatibility is ultra important.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion about williams drivers but i quess i look at it more from a view of it being a team problem. There are no bad drivers in F1. These drivers have all had success at lower formulas or they wouldn't be in F1, money or not. What makes the difference is the personal around them. So when posters say the car is 80% of the equation, then don't rag on the drivers for being the chief reason the team finishes where it does.

You're talking about a very experienced F1 engineer who has over seen many podium placed cars and he's the guy that was lost at sea instead of the much inexperienced driver who apparently was giving excellent feed back all the time, I find that hard to believe.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 371
Location: b. c. canada
Pokerman, strolls engineer was James Urwin who's only F1 experience was as Race Operations Analyst from 2014-2016. His experience as a driver race engineer was in GP 2 with caterham racing and other lower race formula's. With the new F1 formula for 2017 he was as much of a rookie as stroll. Ask any top notch driver how important it is to be in tune with your engineer and i'm sure they will tell you that they can make you or break you. I think both driver and engineer need to shoulder the blame for the inconsistencies.

Nobody expects williams to win. I'm hoping with paddys input they will be able to at least battle in the midfield. With two fairly inexperience drivers it will be tough but, just my opinion, i think they might surprise a few people.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 1822
spiritone wrote:
Yes, strolls engineer definitely has to take some of the blame for the inconsistency on that side of the garage. Posters keep mentioning that stroll is "sawing" at the wheel. If i setup a car and the driver is sawing at the wheel,i have to take the blame for not doing a good enough job. With todays F1 car being so telemetry dependent the drivers engineer becomes even more important. The driver/engineer compatibility is ultra important.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion about williams drivers but i quess i look at it more from a view of it being a team problem. There are no bad drivers in F1. These drivers have all had success at lower formulas or they wouldn't be in F1, money or not. What makes the difference is the personal around them. So when posters say the car is 80% of the equation, then don't rag on the drivers for being the chief reason the team finishes where it does.


The sawing at the wheel was implied to be him trying too hard. He needs to work on his own psychology, a race engineer can only have so much influence in that regard (much akin to the team principle, and just about anyone else of importance within the team).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27867
spiritone wrote:
Pokerman, strolls engineer was James Urwin who's only F1 experience was as Race Operations Analyst from 2014-2016. His experience as a driver race engineer was in GP 2 with caterham racing and other lower race formula's. With the new F1 formula for 2017 he was as much of a rookie as stroll. Ask any top notch driver how important it is to be in tune with your engineer and i'm sure they will tell you that they can make you or break you. I think both driver and engineer need to shoulder the blame for the inconsistencies.

Nobody expects williams to win. I'm hoping with paddys input they will be able to at least battle in the midfield. With two fairly inexperience drivers it will be tough but, just my opinion, i think they might surprise a few people.

That's fair enough I was very much surmising that the guy would be very experienced in that position, maybe they were just not expecting that much from Stroll in his rookie season, a strange choice perhaps?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:35 am
Posts: 975
I fear for Williams. I really do.
Despite what they say, it IS a pure financial decision.

I cannot believe they could not have went out and got a better driver than Stroll or Sirotkin.
That desperate they magically managed to forget about the ruling from Martini that a driver had to be over 25.
I'm not saying Kubica should have been picked, cos he wasn't up to it either.

Top 3 will be Merc, Ferrari, Red Bull.
McLaren will leapfrog them, as will Renault.
Force India are already ahead.
They are lucky Ferraris influence at Sauber probably wont make a difference yet and Toro Rosso have a Honda.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 6672
Location: Mumbai, India
Sutton wrote:
I fear for Williams. I really do.
Despite what they say, it IS a pure financial decision.

I cannot believe they could not have went out and got a better driver than Stroll or Sirotkin.
That desperate they magically managed to forget about the ruling from Martini that a driver had to be over 25.
I'm not saying Kubica should have been picked, cos he wasn't up to it either.

Top 3 will be Merc, Ferrari, Red Bull.
McLaren will leapfrog them, as will Renault.
Force India are already ahead.
They are lucky Ferraris influence at Sauber probably wont make a difference yet and Toro Rosso have a Honda.


Considering Williams are getting a good sum of money from Stroll's father, they should've relaxed their want of more money to give the 2nd seat a fair driver option. If not Kubica, Wehrlein should've got the nod. It's quite ironic he's without a seat. If Williams would've hired Wehrlein, they would've gotten some discount from Mercedes.

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 371
Location: b. c. canada
Here we go again with the "sawing at the wheel". Drivers sawing at the wheel are doing so because of what they feel in their a##. If that was the case why is it that when the car was good he was no longer "sawing". The incar video tells the story.

Posters are posting about how williams should be hiring better drivers. There were no choices other than a gamble on another rookie. Obviously kubica was not good enough with the data they had,de rista has already had his shot and Kyvat confidence seems to be shot. As for wehrlein, don't you think if he was as great as some of you think he is, shouldn't he have a seat by now? Also why is it merc has seemed to move on from him with other drivers?

F1 has never been "Fair" when it comes to drivers careers. I'm sure posters could name lots of deserving drivers that never got a shot.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 14176
spiritone wrote:
Here we go again with the "sawing at the wheel". Drivers sawing at the wheel are doing so because of what they feel in their a##. If that was the case why is it that when the car was good he was no longer "sawing". The incar video tells the story.

Posters are posting about how williams should be hiring better drivers. There were no choices other than a gamble on another rookie. Obviously kubica was not good enough with the data they had,de rista has already had his shot and Kyvat confidence seems to be shot. As for wehrlein, don't you think if he was as great as some of you think he is, shouldn't he have a seat by now? Also why is it merc has seemed to move on from him with other drivers?

F1 has never been "Fair" when it comes to drivers careers. I'm sure posters could name lots of deserving drivers that never got a shot.


Your post is confusing... Is Wehrlein deserving or not.

Stroll was too slow last year. He should have a lower bench mark this year which will help him to look good at least.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 371
Location: b. c. canada
I'm confused why your confused.

Yes he was slow in some races but, he was also fast in some races. We don't really know what his real level is yet.

As far as wehrlein i think he is just an average driver by F1 standards and it seems that is where merc see's him now. Really, we all have our opinion on drivers but our opinion is irrelivant to the teams that are going to employ them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 14176
spiritone wrote:
I'm confused why your confused.

Yes he was slow in some races but, he was also fast in some races. We don't really know what his real level is yet.

As far as wehrlein i think he is just an average driver by F1 standards and it seems that is where merc see's him now. Really, we all have our opinion on drivers but our opinion is irrelivant to the teams that are going to employ them.


I agree he is probably at the bottom end of average by F1 standards which means he has a number of poorer drivers on the grid than him. I think he has been unlucky, although there must be a reason why the likes of FI and Williams aren't interested. Then again it could be the $$$$.

I think it's unfortunate for all drivers that about 2/3 of drivers on the grid today are at least partially chosen for political reasons even if they have gone on to prove themselves. If you have nothing to offer besides driving then it is tough to get on these days.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 1822
Sutton wrote:
I fear for Williams. I really do.
Despite what they say, it IS a pure financial decision.

I cannot believe they could not have went out and got a better driver than Stroll or Sirotkin.
That desperate they magically managed to forget about the ruling from Martini that a driver had to be over 25.
I'm not saying Kubica should have been picked, cos he wasn't up to it either.

Top 3 will be Merc, Ferrari, Red Bull.
McLaren will leapfrog them, as will Renault.
Force India are already ahead.
They are lucky Ferraris influence at Sauber probably wont make a difference yet and Toro Rosso have a Honda.


If they'd went for Kubica, who by most accounts turned out being slower than Sirotkin, would people be calling it a financial decision?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27867
spiritone wrote:
I'm confused why your confused.

Yes he was slow in some races but, he was also fast in some races. We don't really know what his real level is yet.

As far as wehrlein i think he is just an average driver by F1 standards and it seems that is where merc see's him now. Really, we all have our opinion on drivers but our opinion is irrelivant to the teams that are going to employ them.

Wehrlein may well be average but then Stroll has to be seen as bottom of the pile and Sirotkin has yet to prove himself to be even average.

Let's not forget that Massa was seen as being an average driver but was still half a second quicker than Stroll.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23910
Ennis wrote:
Sutton wrote:
I fear for Williams. I really do.
Despite what they say, it IS a pure financial decision.

I cannot believe they could not have went out and got a better driver than Stroll or Sirotkin.
That desperate they magically managed to forget about the ruling from Martini that a driver had to be over 25.
I'm not saying Kubica should have been picked, cos he wasn't up to it either.

Top 3 will be Merc, Ferrari, Red Bull.
McLaren will leapfrog them, as will Renault.
Force India are already ahead.
They are lucky Ferraris influence at Sauber probably wont make a difference yet and Toro Rosso have a Honda.


If they'd went for Kubica, who by most accounts turned out being slower than Sirotkin, would people be calling it a financial decision?

I think I would. I've posted before that I don't think it would have been a sensible racing decision


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 1822
Zoue wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Sutton wrote:
I fear for Williams. I really do.
Despite what they say, it IS a pure financial decision.

I cannot believe they could not have went out and got a better driver than Stroll or Sirotkin.
That desperate they magically managed to forget about the ruling from Martini that a driver had to be over 25.
I'm not saying Kubica should have been picked, cos he wasn't up to it either.

Top 3 will be Merc, Ferrari, Red Bull.
McLaren will leapfrog them, as will Renault.
Force India are already ahead.
They are lucky Ferraris influence at Sauber probably wont make a difference yet and Toro Rosso have a Honda.


If they'd went for Kubica, who by most accounts turned out being slower than Sirotkin, would people be calling it a financial decision?

I think I would. I've posted before that I don't think it would have been a sensible racing decision


I know some would, but I'm willing to wager at least 75% of complaints about a pay-driver would have vanished. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 27867
Ennis wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Sutton wrote:
I fear for Williams. I really do.
Despite what they say, it IS a pure financial decision.

I cannot believe they could not have went out and got a better driver than Stroll or Sirotkin.
That desperate they magically managed to forget about the ruling from Martini that a driver had to be over 25.
I'm not saying Kubica should have been picked, cos he wasn't up to it either.

Top 3 will be Merc, Ferrari, Red Bull.
McLaren will leapfrog them, as will Renault.
Force India are already ahead.
They are lucky Ferraris influence at Sauber probably wont make a difference yet and Toro Rosso have a Honda.


If they'd went for Kubica, who by most accounts turned out being slower than Sirotkin, would people be calling it a financial decision?

I think I would. I've posted before that I don't think it would have been a sensible racing decision


I know some would, but I'm willing to wager at least 75% of complaints about a pay-driver would have vanished. :)

As high as 75%, ye of no faith. :)

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 2032
I think Stroll will beat Sirotkin - but, of course, that is just my opinion.

Definitely, it is the worst driver pairing on 2018's grid.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:29 am
Posts: 1962
From the testing Sirotkin was faster than Kubica who was barely faster than Stroll. Time for the Kubica fans to move on and follow him in whatever he does next. He had his chance in F1 but that wasn't enough for him so he went rallying so he created the situation he is in now. Time to let some youngsters to have a go who might appreciate it more. Are Sirotkin and Stroll fast by F1 grid standards ? Probably not especially in the latter's case, but Williams needs to pay its bills first and hope their car makes up the difference. Modern F1 means unless you are blisteringly fast you have to bring money, blame Bernie.

_________________
Kimi: "Come on, get the McLaren out of the way!”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:14 pm
Posts: 3407
spiritone wrote:
I'm confused why your confused.

Yes he was slow in some races but, he was also fast in some races. We don't really know what his real level is yet.



I recall only 2 races where Stroll had decent pace. He was never fast anywhere. His qualifying was abysmal pretty much every time except for Monza in the wet.
I expect Sirotkin to be ahead of him. Stroll is likely in the same league as Jolyon Palmer and Max Chilton; pretty much guys who have no business being on the grid.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:21 pm
Posts: 42
No competitive team has a pay-driver.

We've got two of them.

2018 is a disaster.

_________________
Magic Williams 2018


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group