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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:10 pm 
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mas wrote:
They need to get Kyvat too as reserve driver just in case.


I agree that would be sensible.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:13 pm 
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A young fit Kubica is a better driver than Kyvat but it's all a question of how far from his peak he is now. They should allow Kyvat to do a few P1s next year to get him acclimatised just in case he's needed or better now.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:36 pm 
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mas wrote:
A young fit Kubica is a better driver than Kyvat but it's all a question of how far from his peak he is now. They should allow Kyvat to do a few P1s next year to get him acclimatised just in case he's needed or better now.


I don't think age would be against Kubica. He is still only 32. It just comes down to how well he can adapt to the new car.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:59 pm 
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why not let kubica have the seat for the last race ?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Our american broadcasters seem to be convinced it will be Kubica in the car next year. I wish him the best, but if he is not light years faster than Stroll then I will have no choice but to question this decision.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:30 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
Our american broadcasters seem to be convinced it will be Kubica in the car next year. I wish him the best, but if he is not light years faster than Stroll then I will have no choice but to question this decision.


TBF he just has to be better than Massa.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:52 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Our american broadcasters seem to be convinced it will be Kubica in the car next year. I wish him the best, but if he is not light years faster than Stroll then I will have no choice but to question this decision.


TBF he just has to be better than Massa.

How will we know?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:59 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Our american broadcasters seem to be convinced it will be Kubica in the car next year. I wish him the best, but if he is not light years faster than Stroll then I will have no choice but to question this decision.


TBF he just has to be better than Massa.

How will we know?


General performance, gap to Stroll etc. Kind of the same way we know that Stroll is not an upgrade on Bottas.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:05 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Our american broadcasters seem to be convinced it will be Kubica in the car next year. I wish him the best, but if he is not light years faster than Stroll then I will have no choice but to question this decision.


TBF he just has to be better than Massa.


If Williams have any ambition left in them they would want him to be quite a bit better than Massa, no?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:21 pm 
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mds wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Our american broadcasters seem to be convinced it will be Kubica in the car next year. I wish him the best, but if he is not light years faster than Stroll then I will have no choice but to question this decision.


TBF he just has to be better than Massa.


If Williams have any ambition left in them they would want him to be quite a bit better than Massa, no?


Well for it to be the right decision he just has to be fractionally better than there second best option.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:08 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Our american broadcasters seem to be convinced it will be Kubica in the car next year. I wish him the best, but if he is not light years faster than Stroll then I will have no choice but to question this decision.


TBF he just has to be better than Massa.

How will we know?


General performance, gap to Stroll etc. Kind of the same way we know that Stroll is not an upgrade on Bottas.

Stroll is liable to make a performance improvement next season whilst with Kubica we can't be saying he is the same driver as before, we are dealing with two unknowns to give an indefinite answer.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:10 pm 
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mds wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Our american broadcasters seem to be convinced it will be Kubica in the car next year. I wish him the best, but if he is not light years faster than Stroll then I will have no choice but to question this decision.


TBF he just has to be better than Massa.


If Williams have any ambition left in them they would want him to be quite a bit better than Massa, no?

Williams priority seems to safe guard funds that come into the team before the season even starts not to hope for funds that might come in based upon performance.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:16 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Williams priority seems to safe guard funds that come into the team before the season even starts not to hope for funds that might come in based upon performance.


Valid point, but with Stroll's and their own sponsors, and fifth place in the WCC, I thought they are financially in a pretty healthy position that would allow them to go for the best driver they can and not worry too much about how much money he brings?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:45 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Williams priority seems to safe guard funds that come into the team before the season even starts not to hope for funds that might come in based upon performance.


Valid point, but with Stroll's and their own sponsors, and fifth place in the WCC, I thought they are financially in a pretty healthy position that would allow them to go for the best driver they can and not worry too much about how much money he brings?

And to be fair to them they did make a play for Alonso. I don't think Lowe will just settle with what he's got

Kubica is a bold choice, regardless of if it works out or not

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Kubica is going to be such a huge disappointment. May even leave mid-season.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:52 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
Kubica is going to be such a huge disappointment. May even leave mid-season.

Why all the negativity? You have absolutely no idea how he's going to perform

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:18 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
Kubica is going to be such a huge disappointment. May even leave mid-season.


Good to keep a bit of continuity after four years of Massa.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:22 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Williams priority seems to safe guard funds that come into the team before the season even starts not to hope for funds that might come in based upon performance.


Valid point, but with Stroll's and their own sponsors, and fifth place in the WCC, I thought they are financially in a pretty healthy position that would allow them to go for the best driver they can and not worry too much about how much money he brings?

Massa was interviewed in Brazil and he the said the decision was made for financial reasons, I did hear that Williams paid Massa $6M to come out of retirement and I'm sure we have all heard that Kubica is bringing money to the team so you could be looking at a net gain of around $15M for Williams, lets also not forget the $12M they received from Mercedes for Bottas that enabled Williams to pay Massa in the first place.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:24 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Williams priority seems to safe guard funds that come into the team before the season even starts not to hope for funds that might come in based upon performance.


Valid point, but with Stroll's and their own sponsors, and fifth place in the WCC, I thought they are financially in a pretty healthy position that would allow them to go for the best driver they can and not worry too much about how much money he brings?

And to be fair to them they did make a play for Alonso. I don't think Lowe will just settle with what he's got

Kubica is a bold choice, regardless of if it works out or not

That money I heard would have come from the Strolls, what better teacher for young Lance?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:53 pm 
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you can be sure Williams will develop something special on a one handed steering wheel and changing the cockpit to suit kubica's needs and cost won't be a problem , if Robert gets the seat and is quick after a few races , the interest and sponsorship Williams could get is big , and if you don't reckon its possible one handed , remember that Robert has very much got use to using one arm and this arm will be massively stronger


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:06 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
why not let kubica have the seat for the last race ?

Because one bad race would "kill" him, and all the story during the long winter time will be on how Kubica is actually bad.

Which is something I expect to be that way. Just as ResevoirDog said...
ReservoirDog wrote:
Kubica is going to be such a huge disappointment. May even leave mid-season.

Or maybe eve after 2-3 races.

There is no negativity in this. F1 is vastly different than when he drove last time. The drivers are not set apart anymore by 0,1 like when he drove last time, but 0,01 sec/lap. It's going to be tough for him.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:54 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Kubica is going to be such a huge disappointment. May even leave mid-season.


Good to keep a bit of continuity after four years of Massa.

:lol: :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:17 am 
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Kubica has a low bar to meet, be better than Stroll ;). Along with the other older driver in the mix, diResta, Kubica would be better at actually driving car development forward than the youngsters in the mix because Williams need a faster car more than the fastest driver.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:15 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Williams priority seems to safe guard funds that come into the team before the season even starts not to hope for funds that might come in based upon performance.


Valid point, but with Stroll's and their own sponsors, and fifth place in the WCC, I thought they are financially in a pretty healthy position that would allow them to go for the best driver they can and not worry too much about how much money he brings?

Massa was interviewed in Brazil and he the said the decision was made for financial reasons, I did hear that Williams paid Massa $6M to come out of retirement and I'm sure we have all heard that Kubica is bringing money to the team so you could be looking at a net gain of around $15M for Williams, lets also not forget the $12M they received from Mercedes for Bottas that enabled Williams to pay Massa in the first place.


Yeah, and? My point remains exactly the same: they are financially not in a bad position and can afford to go for the better driver instead of the one that brings in a bit more money. If that's Kubica, then fine, no problem. But the bar "just be better than Massa" is not a terribly high one for Williams, it should be higher.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:02 am 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Williams priority seems to safe guard funds that come into the team before the season even starts not to hope for funds that might come in based upon performance.


Valid point, but with Stroll's and their own sponsors, and fifth place in the WCC, I thought they are financially in a pretty healthy position that would allow them to go for the best driver they can and not worry too much about how much money he brings?

Massa was interviewed in Brazil and he the said the decision was made for financial reasons, I did hear that Williams paid Massa $6M to come out of retirement and I'm sure we have all heard that Kubica is bringing money to the team so you could be looking at a net gain of around $15M for Williams, lets also not forget the $12M they received from Mercedes for Bottas that enabled Williams to pay Massa in the first place.


Yeah, and? My point remains exactly the same: they are financially not in a bad position and can afford to go for the better driver instead of the one that brings in a bit more money. If that's Kubica, then fine, no problem. But the bar "just be better than Massa" is not a terribly high one for Williams, it should be higher.

I would add that one can't really take what Massa says as gospel here, either. He's hardly going to say they got rid of him because they thought he wasn't good enough, is he? I think pronouncements like these, unless corroborated by another reputable source, should be taken with a pinch of salt


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:08 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Which is something I expect to be that way. Just as ResevoirDog said...
ReservoirDog wrote:
Kubica is going to be such a huge disappointment. May even leave mid-season.

Or maybe eve after 2-3 races.

There is no negativity in this. F1 is vastly different than when he drove last time. The drivers are not set apart anymore by 0,1 like when he drove last time, but 0,01 sec/lap. It's going to be tough for him.

I think you highly underestimate the WRC

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
pc27b wrote:
why not let kubica have the seat for the last race ?

Because one bad race would "kill" him, and all the story during the long winter time will be on how Kubica is actually bad.

Which is something I expect to be that way. Just as ResevoirDog said...
ReservoirDog wrote:
Kubica is going to be such a huge disappointment. May even leave mid-season.

Or maybe eve after 2-3 races.

There is no negativity in this. F1 is vastly different than when he drove last time. The drivers are not set apart anymore by 0,1 like when he drove last time, but 0,01 sec/lap. It's going to be tough for him.


Disagree.

Field spread is now larger than back in 2010.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:10 pm 
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If it was going to be Kubica there would have been announcement already from Williams.

Paddy Lowe said no decision has been made though?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:11 pm 
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It's a shame JEV has been out of the F1 picture for so long.. I think he would be a good fit.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Glasnost wrote:
It's a shame JEV has been out of the F1 picture for so long.. I think he would be a good fit.


Kubica has been out of F1 far longer


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:28 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
pc27b wrote:
why not let kubica have the seat for the last race ?

Because one bad race would "kill" him, and all the story during the long winter time will be on how Kubica is actually bad.

Which is something I expect to be that way. Just as ResevoirDog said...
ReservoirDog wrote:
Kubica is going to be such a huge disappointment. May even leave mid-season.

Or maybe eve after 2-3 races.

There is no negativity in this. F1 is vastly different than when he drove last time. The drivers are not set apart anymore by 0,1 like when he drove last time, but 0,01 sec/lap. It's going to be tough for him.


Disagree.

Field spread is now larger than back in 2010.


I miss the days when we'd get a couple of drivers who were utterly hopeless. Wouldn't it be great to have another Lavaggi, Amati or Rosset.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:02 pm 
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scotlandforever wrote:
If it was going to be Kubica there would have been announcement already from Williams.

Paddy Lowe said no decision has been made though?


They are probably waiting to see how he does in the test after Abu Dhabi before making an announcement.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:02 pm 
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I dont know why there is such a low opinion of Di Resta. He was not a bad driver at all at FI and has plenty of experience. He was a bit of a grumpler, which some people did not like, but he was fine in the car. Hulk was probably better, but the cars and tyres are different now so there could be a difference.

I am not saying he was ever in the Hamilton/Vettel group, but not a Bad driver by any means. If there is any uncertainty over Kubica, the logical choice would be DiResta. He has been with the team and btw is stil on Merc books


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Now that Massa is gone, this is my ranking of Williams candidates:

1. Wehrlein
2. Di Resta
3. Kvyat
4. Kubica

Any other name left out?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:22 pm 
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moby wrote:
If there is any uncertainty over Kubica, the logical choice would be DiResta.


I'd say Kvyat actually. Relevant recent experience, and a fresh start could give him the morale boost he needs.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:38 pm 
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mds wrote:
moby wrote:
If there is any uncertainty over Kubica, the logical choice would be DiResta.


I'd say Kvyat actually. Relevant recent experience, and a fresh start could give him the morale boost he needs.

Kvyat indeed showed glimpses of sheer speed. Perhaps you are right. Di Resta also is not a bad choice, as well as JEV, while I would give a little bit of advantage to Wehrlein above all these.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:45 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Williams priority seems to safe guard funds that come into the team before the season even starts not to hope for funds that might come in based upon performance.


Valid point, but with Stroll's and their own sponsors, and fifth place in the WCC, I thought they are financially in a pretty healthy position that would allow them to go for the best driver they can and not worry too much about how much money he brings?

Massa was interviewed in Brazil and he the said the decision was made for financial reasons, I did hear that Williams paid Massa $6M to come out of retirement and I'm sure we have all heard that Kubica is bringing money to the team so you could be looking at a net gain of around $15M for Williams, lets also not forget the $12M they received from Mercedes for Bottas that enabled Williams to pay Massa in the first place.


Yeah, and? My point remains exactly the same: they are financially not in a bad position and can afford to go for the better driver instead of the one that brings in a bit more money. If that's Kubica, then fine, no problem. But the bar "just be better than Massa" is not a terribly high one for Williams, it should be higher.

Well if you really think that a one armed Kubica will be better than Massa, I know that his harsh but with his disability there is nothing guaranteed with Kubica.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:47 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Williams priority seems to safe guard funds that come into the team before the season even starts not to hope for funds that might come in based upon performance.


Valid point, but with Stroll's and their own sponsors, and fifth place in the WCC, I thought they are financially in a pretty healthy position that would allow them to go for the best driver they can and not worry too much about how much money he brings?

Massa was interviewed in Brazil and he the said the decision was made for financial reasons, I did hear that Williams paid Massa $6M to come out of retirement and I'm sure we have all heard that Kubica is bringing money to the team so you could be looking at a net gain of around $15M for Williams, lets also not forget the $12M they received from Mercedes for Bottas that enabled Williams to pay Massa in the first place.


Yeah, and? My point remains exactly the same: they are financially not in a bad position and can afford to go for the better driver instead of the one that brings in a bit more money. If that's Kubica, then fine, no problem. But the bar "just be better than Massa" is not a terribly high one for Williams, it should be higher.

I would add that one can't really take what Massa says as gospel here, either. He's hardly going to say they got rid of him because they thought he wasn't good enough, is he? I think pronouncements like these, unless corroborated by another reputable source, should be taken with a pinch of salt

The reality is that Massa got paid $6M while Kubica is bringing money to the team, also how do they decide Massa wasn't good enough when he was so much better than Stroll?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:48 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Which is something I expect to be that way. Just as ResevoirDog said...
ReservoirDog wrote:
Kubica is going to be such a huge disappointment. May even leave mid-season.

Or maybe eve after 2-3 races.

There is no negativity in this. F1 is vastly different than when he drove last time. The drivers are not set apart anymore by 0,1 like when he drove last time, but 0,01 sec/lap. It's going to be tough for him.

I think you highly underestimate the WRC

Meaning?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:52 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Williams priority seems to safe guard funds that come into the team before the season even starts not to hope for funds that might come in based upon performance.


Valid point, but with Stroll's and their own sponsors, and fifth place in the WCC, I thought they are financially in a pretty healthy position that would allow them to go for the best driver they can and not worry too much about how much money he brings?

Massa was interviewed in Brazil and he the said the decision was made for financial reasons, I did hear that Williams paid Massa $6M to come out of retirement and I'm sure we have all heard that Kubica is bringing money to the team so you could be looking at a net gain of around $15M for Williams, lets also not forget the $12M they received from Mercedes for Bottas that enabled Williams to pay Massa in the first place.


Yeah, and? My point remains exactly the same: they are financially not in a bad position and can afford to go for the better driver instead of the one that brings in a bit more money. If that's Kubica, then fine, no problem. But the bar "just be better than Massa" is not a terribly high one for Williams, it should be higher.

Well if you really think that a one armed Kubica will be better than Massa, I know that his harsh but with his disability there is nothing guaranteed with Kubica.


I have no idea what Kubica can or can't do. If anything I think there is a lot of hype surrounding him and I can't help but feel this hype could turn into a lot of disappointment very easily. I mean this season people were championing him to replace Palmer in-season, claiming he couldn't possibly be worse than Palmer. You know what, without proper build-up and testing, being dropped in mid-season after more than 6 seasons out of F1, I think he could have been a lot worse than Palmer even.

I would like it so much if he could come back and show he hasn't lost any of his speed, but I don't think that is realistic at all.

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