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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:53 pm 
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https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2017/10 ... -from-dxba

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There is still much talk of cost-cutting, but increasingly it seems that reducing the spend and balancing revenues for all the teams may require some creative solutions rather han simply declaring that only x amount of money can be spent. One way that this can be done is for there to be changes to the structure of the F1 driver market, for example. At the moment this is all left unstructured. The big teams hire the big drivers and pay what they need to pay them. But what if they couldn’t do that? What if the rules gave the first choice of drivers each year to the least successful teams? Thus Sauber would get the first choice of drivers and could pick Lewis Hamilton. He would not want to stay, but Sauber could then put him on the market and would then reap the benefits of the money required to release him. This would raise money for the little teams and things would get interesting in the midfield. This could be fairly similar to the National Football League “Draft” in the United States, an event at the best college players are signed up by the teams in the professional leagues. Today The Draft is a three-day televised event in which the players are selected and traded. This year it attracted an astonishing 250,000 spectators at the venue, with millions more watching on TV, with the show producing solid advertising revenues – and the whole event acting as free promotion for the sport. The big teams would still be allowed to spend money but it would serve a purpose!


It's been discussed before, but with US-Centric owners now who might be looking to get a bit outside of the box when it comes to money, I think it's worth visiting again. From where i'm sitting, I dont think much would change, other than the big boys having to fork over extra money to the little teams in order to secure the drivers they want, and in addition maybe the little teams wont have to go down the pay driver route quite so much, if they are selling their pick/trading their driver for cash.

I'm actually warming to the idea.

On the con side, I guess if you get a tiny team with a sudden cash injection, who no longer need the extra cash from selling their pick, they can tie up a good driver in potentially a backmarker car. It's a niche con, but i'm sure there are more.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:00 pm 
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Garbage idea.

Red Bull have invested a lot of time and money in their drivers. Why should Sauber get to draft say Ricciardo then benefit financially from releasing him?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:12 pm 
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I like it.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:15 pm 
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How would this work on a small pool of just 20 drivers? The drafts are aimed at newcomers, college students. How many of them do we get a year in F1? How would this affect the current drivers' contracts?

Then what about the cars? They are developed with drivers styles in mind, they'd need to know who's driving for them before developing them.

Can't see it working


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:17 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Then what about the cars? They are developed with drivers styles in mind, they'd need to know who's driving for them before developing them.


I have a hard time believing this to be honest, they are developed to be as fast as the designer thinks that they can go, anything after that is done with set up. Yes you can get certain inherent characteristics with design choices, but if they are to the detriment of ultimate speed, it's an easy to choice to ask the driver to adapt.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:19 pm 
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Oh, and as for how it'd work for 20 drivers... it's effectively a way of distributing money differently via the backdoor I guess, the top teams will always pay for the best drivers, just gives the little teams something to play with that they didnt have before. An invisible commodity that the small teams gain for 'free' that can be sold to fund other things.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:29 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Oh, and as for how it'd work for 20 drivers... it's effectively a way of distributing money differently via the backdoor I guess, the top teams will always pay for the best drivers, just gives the little teams something to play with that they didnt have before. An invisible commodity that the small teams gain for 'free' that can be sold to fund other things.


What I mean is that drafts are for newcomers. And how many are there in any chosen year? One? Two?


And how would it work for the existing drivers? It would only work if ALL current drivers' contracts finished at the same time, say 2018, then they were all drafted for 2019.

Very unrealistic.

I get your point about the cars


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:48 pm 
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It's just plain daft.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:50 pm 
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The field is too small and there's not enough annual turnover for an annual draft to work. It could only work if every driver was available every year which, while to some might sound good in theory, I don't think anybody would like in practice.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
How would this work on a small pool of just 20 drivers? The drafts are aimed at newcomers, college students. How many of them do we get a year in F1? How would this affect the current drivers' contracts?

Then what about the cars? They are developed with drivers styles in mind, they'd need to know who's driving for them before developing them.

Can't see it working

Exactly i thought the draft system was for new players not established stars?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:57 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
The field is too small and there's not enough annual turnover for an annual draft to work. It could only work if every driver was available every year which, while to some might sound good in theory, I don't think anybody would like in practice.


I think the idea is that every driver would be available every year.

As for who would be 'in' the draft.... I guess anyone eligible for a super license who puts their name forward?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:59 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
It's just plain daft.

No it's a draft.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:16 pm 
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No, please x(


How would drivers get into the pool, and what happens to those in it if not 'picked'?
Do they stay in until they decide to retire?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:51 pm 
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This sounds like an idea just put forward by Joe Saward himself.

I'm sure I heard an idea for the best drivers in F2 being placed into the lower teams paid for out of the F1 pot, even having new teams to facilitate that. From there maybe you could have the lower teams being able to sell their drivers to the big teams, but what Saward proposes is nonsense.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:01 pm 
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No this can't work. You can have a draft in the NFL because every NFL franchise is a multi-billion dollar entity that is fully capable of paying any player's salary. NFL salaries must adhere to the rules outlined in the salary cap (Which include a pay scale where rookies are generally paid less than veterans, etc. - as well as maximum salary limitations for players at various stages in their careers [the max for a 6 year veteran is higher than the max for a rookie]).

Most F1 teams are not even close to the size of the largest ones. There's no way that Sauber could afford to pay the kind of salary that a Fernando Alonso or Lewis Hamilton command on the market. As such the draft would be impossible. Even for new drivers, there is often an existing sponsorship relationship that has gotten them into F1. It wouldn't make sense for someone to have their career sponsored by someone as they climb the ladder and then just randomly be placed with another team.

The draft is a generally good idea for team sports and I think the major European football leagues would benefit from it in that there would be much greater parity but for F1 it's a non-starter.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:15 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Garbage idea.

Red Bull have invested a lot of time and money in their drivers. Why should Sauber get to draft say Ricciardo then benefit financially from releasing him?

I completely agree but how about if in addition to the private driver programs the teams run, every team pays into a pot for a communal drivers development program from where they could have a draft like this but with a Rookie cap so teams don't have to pay exorbitant amounts of money to unproven talents that can very well turn out to be busts?

That might make things interesting.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:56 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Garbage idea.

Red Bull have invested a lot of time and money in their drivers. Why should Sauber get to draft say Ricciardo then benefit financially from releasing him?

I completely agree but how about if in addition to the private driver programs the teams run, every team pays into a pot for a communal drivers development program from where they could have a draft like this but with a Rookie cap so teams don't have to pay exorbitant amounts of money to unproven talents that can very well turn out to be busts?

That might make things interesting.

How often does anyone pay a rookie a decent salary anyway? Rookies are almost always at the bottom end of the salary list, and only start earning the decent money when they negotiate their first full contract - just like in US professional sports.

I'm against the idea of a draft, and frankly I don't like it in American sports either. It contributes to the 'sameness' (I'm sure there's a better word, but I'm not thinking of it) of the franchises. They're just names with a constantly changing list of people playing for them; playing for a single team for life is extremely difficult in the modern atmosphere. In F1 I like the fact that Norris is a McLaren man and we know that, and Leclerc is destined for Ferrari, etc. It helps reinforce team identity to me.

I also agree that F1 teams spend a lot more money developing a talent to the F1 level than in other sports. Unless something is done about the prohibitive costs of reaching F1, a draft will never be fair to the teams who invested in the careers of the drivers.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:11 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
It's just plain daft.


One of those rare times thst pokdr & I are in agreement.
:nod:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:39 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's just plain daft.


One of those rare times thst pokdr & I are in agreement.
:nod:

Hallelujah :)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:06 pm 
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not a fan of the idea. I guess the point is to create more parity and close racing. IMHO, drivers aren't going to do that. IMHO these drivers are less than a 1.00 of a sec difference, at MOST. In my karting series we have to run same motor and same tires, but chassis can vary. Most of the top guys are within 0.5 of a sec of each other and that is on a 1 minute track. Often times the number is MUCH lower.

That being said, how can the FIA "equalize" the cars? I don't think Hamilton driving a Honda is going to put him at the top (actually, don't we already see this with Alonso?). It isn't so much the drivers but the cars. I think they either need to do as Horner is suggesting and do away with the whole electric motor, regeneration crap. Get back to IC only and turbos and thats it!! IF you think you want to act like you want to save the trees and want to run electric, make the electric motor and ALL associated components built by a single manufacture (like the tires) and let the manufactures spend all their time with chassis and IC motors. The less number of variables, the closer the racing is going to be.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:55 pm 
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rodH wrote:
That being said, how can the FIA "equalize" the cars? I don't think Hamilton driving a Honda is going to put him at the top (actually, don't we already see this with Alonso?). It isn't so much the drivers but the cars. I think they either need to do as Horner is suggesting and do away with the whole electric motor, regeneration crap. Get back to IC only and turbos and thats it!! IF you think you want to act like you want to save the trees and want to run electric, make the electric motor and ALL associated components built by a single manufacture (like the tires) and let the manufactures spend all their time with chassis and IC motors. The less number of variables, the closer the racing is going to be.

There are definitely ways the FIA could equalize cars. The question is should they, and I believe the answer is no.

Even if you take away the power unit and all its components, the chassis will just return to being the biggest differentiator like it always has been. And that's the way it should be; the driver has never made the biggest difference, and shouldn't. This is Formula 1, not IndyCar.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:00 pm 
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For this to work you have to sort out the money distribution issues in f1. which has been discussed numerous times throughout multiple posts on here so i dont wanna start that debate. (thats a huge can of worms)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:48 am 
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Sponsors would not like this, some come with the driver. Others like to have a say.

It works for a sport where a team is made of only players, as such a player might be more valuable to a team of how he fits in etc.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:05 am 
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Hideous idea.
If this is about the smaller teams having more resources to compete, simply divide the prize cash up in a way that provides them the extra money.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:05 am 
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'Could a NFL-style draft work in (league/sport that currently does not have a draft)?' is such lazy, lazy journalism.

The very reason most leagues/sports do not have a draft system already is because it doesn't work for them to do so.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:25 am 
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It's not going to work, but F1 does need to think of 'something' to equalise things one way or another. It's no good just saying 'F1 has always been like this', if you want to attract a younger audience you need to give them something that appeals to them. And that isn't four years of one team winning and then four years of another team winning.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:38 am 
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An absolutely moronic idea. Suggestions this incomprehensibly stupid make Bernie's old suggestions look like acts of pure genius.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Wouldn't work. Many people have highlighted a few reasons why already, but its just not the same.

Additionally, the issue they're really trying to solve here is the gap between the rich and poor teams... they could just distribute the money more evenly.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:16 am 
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There are so many stumbling blocks it would be incredibly difficult to implement. The draft has more flaws than a crack hooker with STD's.

But this entire article was driven by another larger issue, the lack of parity and the inability for lesser teams to find success. So instead of this daft draft idea, why not address the disease and stop applying band-aids?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:49 pm 
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The grid isn't big enough. You need a lot more than 20ish grid slots for this. NFL has about 1700 positions on teams, and the chances of injuries hampering or ending a career are pretty considerable compared to F1.

What would a team that wants to keep both drivers do? If I'm Red Bull, do I want a draft pick in this system if I have Ricciardo and Max at the moment?

This could hamper young drivers. A lot of the new names in F1 in the last few years have been through Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes driver development initiatives. My understanding of these is you want to develop the guy with an aim that you get first dibs on them when they get to F1 after you've evaluated them a lot and funded them a lot. If these teams aren't going to have dibs (which probably isn't the legal term) then why fund the driver?

With F1 being motorsport, even getting the best driver isn't going to do all that much to boost you. The car is too important for that to work. The best driver might be able to win in the second best car, but I don't believe Alonso or Hamilton or Seb or Max or peak Schumi or anyone would be winning races in the 2017 Sauber barring a whacky circumstance.



I do not think the draft system would have any benefit. I'm not sure how we fix it so that money isn't a dominant resource. Capping budgets seems like it could be a rabbit hole of other issues and, I think, would be tough to manage and enforce all the rules and penny count. Freeing regulations could allow a smaller team to have a brainwave, but truthfully I feel like engineering is so advanced that it's hard to revolutionise anything (which is also stupid as there were folk in the victorian era saying we'd invented everything!) this would just benefit the bigger teams more too. I don't actually mind the idea of having a large chunk of the car be spec built as a general concept but it's not F1, at least not for me.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:01 pm 
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Have we considered the possibility that the very best driver in the world could walk away from Formula One under this draft system? If that driver was drafted to a poor team that could only offer a pittance salary, it would be extremely tempting to walk away and join some other team in some other series offering a larger salary.

Yea I know the theory that a driver could be sold to another wealthier team may work. It would benefit the poorer team, but for the team(s) bidding for that top driver, not only do they have to pay the poorer team a few dozen million dollars, but also have to meet the driver's demands. All of a sudden a driver with a value of 30 million on the open market costs 50 million to obtain their services.

If we ever had the scenario played out by Mercedes again, they could just say "hey, we have the best car by a mile, we can win everything with a lesser driver who only costs us a million a year".

IMO under a draft system, the best drivers in the world would drift off to other series. The total expenditures for driver salaries would increase, taking the sport ever deeper in insanely stupid levels of spending.

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