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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:49 am 
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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13230 ... lt-removal

We might remember Grosjean trying to get Hamilton penalised in qualifying at his home GP for blocking, now he's brought up Hamilton removing his seat belts so he can wave to the fans after a win, he says we have to put the steering wheels back on after a crash so how are we allowed to remove seat belts after the race.

Hamilton says that's interesting, does Vettel remove his seat belts, did Vettel not leave his steering wheel off the car and take it with him after he crashed, something that Grosjean didn't feel the need to flag up at the time.

Hamilton's reference to Vettel can only be seen as what he views as an agenda for the Ferrari wannabe.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:51 am 
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... or/and a jab at Vettel's post-race incident with Stroll.

Inside The F1 Driver Briefing | 2017 Japanese Grand Prix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPr5khO86Eg


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:53 am 
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Grosjean is jealous that he's never been in the situation where he can take his belts off to celebrate a win in F1 with his fans.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:55 am 
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Yes obviously there has to be ulterior motives, injustice and general "out to get him" when Hamilton is concerned.

Edit: I forgot conspiracies.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:57 am 
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Hamilton brings up Vettel not putting the steering wheel back on the car. Grosjean then brings up the seatbelts. I suppose Hamilton thought it was odd as it wasn't to do with the last race, but I suppose it makes sense since they are discussing post-race rules that haven't been followed to the letter but haven't been punished.

I do think it's a little odd how Hamilton clearly isn't happy with Romain's question and asks Grosjean why he wanted clarification, surely the same reason he wanted clarification on the Vettel steering wheel incident about 30 seconds prior?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:02 pm 
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Invade wrote:
... or/and a jab at Vettel's post-race incident with Stroll.

Inside The F1 Driver Briefing | 2017 Japanese Grand Prix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPr5khO86Eg

Nice to see the actual sequence of events, Hamilton said something about Vettel so Grosjean felt the need to step in to say something about Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Very class room-esque in there and therefore very entertaining. A little bit of points scoring going on between the drivers. Hamilton has been removing his belts since at least Brazil 2008. A fair bit of banter masked as little jabs too.

I loved Perez's guilty face and feeling the need to explain himself to the teacher at the end then Charlie saying "well you got away with that one". Haha. Bottas is a humble, quiet guy (minimal talking) he didn't even mention that Perez overtook him off the track. Massa had to get involved.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:10 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
... or/and a jab at Vettel's post-race incident with Stroll.

Inside The F1 Driver Briefing | 2017 Japanese Grand Prix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPr5khO86Eg

Nice to see the actual sequence of events, Hamilton said something about Vettel so Grosjean felt the need to step in to say something about Hamilton.

Or maybe discussion of a post-race rule procedure being broken made Grosjean think it was a good time to bring up a post-race rule procedure being broken?

I don't know why you're jumping to conspiracy that Grosjean brought it up to 'defend' Ferrari/Vettel. It's perfectly logical for Grosjean to remember that when you think about what is being discussed at the time.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:19 pm 
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I read the question, and I see nothing else than a genuine safety question. Personal agendas came later in the process with the other driver getting involved in discussion IMHO.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:25 pm 
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I actually think Grosjean explained himself badly. You here him at one stage comment that he has been fined for not putting the steering wheel back on with a car that had wheels off and would not be moved before. I think he's trying to hint at a one rule for them another for us scenario.

If not then he only brings it up after Hamilton plays silly *inaudible* anyway.

TBH they should all just grow up. Grosjean and Hamilton are both 30+ year old men, not teenagers.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Hamilton brings up Vettel not putting the steering wheel back on the car. Grosjean then brings up the seatbelts. I suppose Hamilton thought it was odd as it wasn't to do with the last race, but I suppose it makes sense since they are discussing post-race rules that haven't been followed to the letter but haven't been punished.

I do think it's a little odd how Hamilton clearly isn't happy with Romain's question and asks Grosjean why he wanted clarification, surely the same reason he wanted clarification on the Vettel steering wheel incident about 30 seconds prior?

Yes they are only supposed to be talking about the last race, when Hamilton says interesting I see that as a clarification of something that has happened previously, maybe in Silverstone qualifying?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:26 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Very class room-esque in there and therefore very entertaining. A little bit of points scoring going on between the drivers. Hamilton has been removing his belts since at least Brazil 2008. A fair bit of banter masked as little jabs too.

I loved Perez's guilty face and feeling the need to explain himself to the teacher at the end then Charlie saying "well you got away with that one". Haha. Bottas is a humble, quiet guy (minimal talking) he didn't even mention that Perez overtook him off the track. Massa had to get involved.


All Finns (on the grid) hardly talk!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:26 pm 
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Isn't Grosjean the director of the GPDA, so is kind of supposed to bring stuff like this up?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:27 pm 
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I saw the Malaysian & Japanese driver briefings earlier. Good to see all together sitting & trying to be concerned.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Oh, god. Yes, the world is out to get Hamilton...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
... or/and a jab at Vettel's post-race incident with Stroll.

Inside The F1 Driver Briefing | 2017 Japanese Grand Prix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPr5khO86Eg

Nice to see the actual sequence of events, Hamilton said something about Vettel so Grosjean felt the need to step in to say something about Hamilton.

Or maybe discussion of a post-race rule procedure being broken made Grosjean think it was a good time to bring up a post-race rule procedure being broken?

I don't know why you're jumping to conspiracy that Grosjean brought it up to 'defend' Ferrari/Vettel. It's perfectly logical for Grosjean to remember that when you think about what is being discussed at the time.

Just a coincidence that it was directed at Hamilton himself and not a general safety question?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:31 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Hamilton brings up Vettel not putting the steering wheel back on the car. Grosjean then brings up the seatbelts. I suppose Hamilton thought it was odd as it wasn't to do with the last race, but I suppose it makes sense since they are discussing post-race rules that haven't been followed to the letter but haven't been punished.

I do think it's a little odd how Hamilton clearly isn't happy with Romain's question and asks Grosjean why he wanted clarification, surely the same reason he wanted clarification on the Vettel steering wheel incident about 30 seconds prior?

Yes they are only supposed to be talking about the last race, when Hamilton says interesting I see that as a clarification of something that has happened previously, maybe in Silverstone qualifying?

I think Hamilton definitely has a woe is me mentality to things but I'd be surprised if even he was that paranoid.

Just to bring the above into one post - it was a general safety question until Charlie asked him for more info, are you annoyed that he didn't say "some drivers" instead of mentioning Hamilton by name?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:55 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I actually think Grosjean explained himself badly. You here him at one stage comment that he has been fined for not putting the steering wheel back on with a car that had wheels off and would not be moved before. I think he's trying to hint at a one rule for them another for us scenario.

If not then he only brings it up after Hamilton plays silly *inaudible* anyway.

TBH they should all just grow up. Grosjean and Hamilton are both 30+ year old men, not teenagers.

That being the case you would have thought that Grosjean would be looking to back Hamilton up on the steering wheel question but instead he just looked to turn the tables on Hamilton.

It seems obvious that Vettel broke a rule and I see Hamilton by flagging that up is just creating some wiggly room for himself just in case he himself digresses this season.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
Isn't Grosjean the director of the GPDA, so is kind of supposed to bring stuff like this up?

He didn't bring up the steering wheel question and the seat belt issue didn't happen at the last race but at previous races so why of a sudden all the concern?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Oh, god. Yes, the world is out to get Hamilton...

Again!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:02 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Isn't Grosjean the director of the GPDA, so is kind of supposed to bring stuff like this up?

He didn't bring up the steering wheel question and the seat belt issue didn't happen at the last race but at previous races so why of a sudden all the concern?


He was concerned for Hamilton. There shouldn't be a 1% chance of injury when the 4th title is as good as in his lap.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Hamilton brings up Vettel not putting the steering wheel back on the car. Grosjean then brings up the seatbelts. I suppose Hamilton thought it was odd as it wasn't to do with the last race, but I suppose it makes sense since they are discussing post-race rules that haven't been followed to the letter but haven't been punished.

I do think it's a little odd how Hamilton clearly isn't happy with Romain's question and asks Grosjean why he wanted clarification, surely the same reason he wanted clarification on the Vettel steering wheel incident about 30 seconds prior?

Yes they are only supposed to be talking about the last race, when Hamilton says interesting I see that as a clarification of something that has happened previously, maybe in Silverstone qualifying?

I think Hamilton definitely has a woe is me mentality to things but I'd be surprised if even he was that paranoid.

Just to bring the above into one post - it was a general safety question until Charlie asked him for more info, are you annoyed that he didn't say "some drivers" instead of mentioning Hamilton by name?

Do you think after Grosjean asked then that was just going to be left up in the air, Whiting is going to want to know if this actually happens otherwise why would Grosjean feel the need to bring it up in the first place, then he specifically mentions Hamilton.

A clarification of a rule before you can accuse the driver.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:13 pm 
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Wow, all I got from that was that Charlie has no back bone! Contradicting himself quite a lot and he just comes across like a complete pussycat, pandering to all the drivers and trying not upset Hamilton or Vettel. At least he gave his reasoning for the steering wheel query, although personally I would have thought that part of leaving the wheel on the car would also be to check the weight after the race (even if some parts were missing after a collision). But his comments on Vettel hitching a ride after this was clarified a few years ago as a no, no and also his points on the un-doing of belts was ridiculous!

If he can't tell the drivers off for them doing things that the FIA deem as unsafe, he really shouldn't be allowed to be their spokesperson in driver briefings.

As for the drivers themselves, none of them acted in any way I wouldn't assume they would do in that sort of situation. It's almost childish school yard finger pointing between all of them (kind of like watching UK parliament discussions!).

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:49 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
... or/and a jab at Vettel's post-race incident with Stroll.

Inside The F1 Driver Briefing | 2017 Japanese Grand Prix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPr5khO86Eg

Nice to see the actual sequence of events, Hamilton said something about Vettel so Grosjean felt the need to step in to say something about Hamilton.

Or maybe discussion of a post-race rule procedure being broken made Grosjean think it was a good time to bring up a post-race rule procedure being broken?

I don't know why you're jumping to conspiracy that Grosjean brought it up to 'defend' Ferrari/Vettel. It's perfectly logical for Grosjean to remember that when you think about what is being discussed at the time.

Just a coincidence that it was directed at Hamilton himself and not a general safety question?

I don't think it was a specific jab at Hamilton. He was the winner of this race and he did remove his seat belts, hence he was the one questioned. No other driver removed his seat belts (that I could see). If nothing else, Grosjean agreed that it was nice to see the driver waving at the fans.

However just in the previous race the rules were questioned about the safety procedures being followed after the race has ended. It's not so difficult to see why Grosjean wants to clarify if the safety procedures are to be followed or not.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:52 pm 
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I've actually just sat and watched the video and people are really making a mountain out of a molehill. To me it is just a case of bad banter which isn't aided by language barriers and Romain trying to be a teachers pet.

Nothing to see here.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:13 pm 
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yep, mountain out of a molehill.....actually painful to watch. all who opened there mouth come off as spoiled an whiney, to me


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:23 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
yep, mountain out of a molehill.....actually painful to watch. all who opened there mouth come off as spoiled an whiney, to me


this.
disappointing really.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:26 pm 
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Hamilton didn't exactly cover himself in glory here, and should have known better than to open the can of worms that ensued.

He saw an opportunity to try and needle Vettel, because replacing the steering wheel has always been a hard rule, unless there is a reason it can't be put back (car damaged for instance) - however due to the unusual situation of Vettel's crash (post race, and the vehicle needing to be craned out so the steering wheel not necessary) there was no need for a punishment.

I think this stems from Baku, where Hamilton felt Vettel was let off very very leniently, and as a result is probably raising every situation where he feels Vettel is receiving lenient treatment or being let off.

However, it backfired in this case, because most people are in agreement that a penalty would have been unnecessary, and pretty much everyone - drivers,
fans, etc... all get annoyed with pedantic and overzealous enforcement of the rules.

Grosjean raising the seatbelt issue is essentially pointing out that while Vettel did technically break the rules, Hamilton removing his seatbelt is far more dangerous even if it doesn't break a rule.

However, I strongly suspect these drive briefings are often like this - the drivers want to get one up on each other all the time, and it's not been any different, I mean - Senna punched Irvine in one so a little bit of passive aggression is a lot more cordial in comparison.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Considering the lack of consistency from the FIA (especially when it comes to WDC contenders) I think Romain is perfectly justified in asking for clarification. He might also have asked how the FIA would have dealt with him if he had banged wheels with Hamilton in Baku?

One rule for them and one rule for you son, and don't you forget it!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:36 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Hamilton didn't exactly cover himself in glory here, and should have known better than to open the can of worms that ensued.

He saw an opportunity to try and needle Vettel, because replacing the steering wheel has always been a hard rule, unless there is a reason it can't be put back (car damaged for instance) - however due to the unusual situation of Vettel's crash (post race, and the vehicle needing to be craned out so the steering wheel not necessary) there was no need for a punishment.

I think this stems from Baku, where Hamilton felt Vettel was let off very very leniently, and as a result is probably raising every situation where he feels Vettel is receiving lenient treatment or being let off.

However, it backfired in this case, because most people are in agreement that a penalty would have been unnecessary, and pretty much everyone - drivers,
fans, etc... all get annoyed with pedantic and overzealous enforcement of the rules.

Grosjean raising the seatbelt issue is essentially pointing out that while Vettel did technically break the rules, Hamilton removing his seatbelt is far more dangerous even if it doesn't break a rule.

However, I strongly suspect these drive briefings are often like this - the drivers want to get one up on each other all the time, and it's not been any different, I mean - Senna punched Irvine in one so a little bit of passive aggression is a lot more cordial in comparison.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:17 pm 
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Grosjean should worry about his own driving and maybe raise a few complaints against himself.

He's an absolute turd of a driver and all he does is complain.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:55 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
... or/and a jab at Vettel's post-race incident with Stroll.

Inside The F1 Driver Briefing | 2017 Japanese Grand Prix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPr5khO86Eg

Nice to see the actual sequence of events, Hamilton said something about Vettel so Grosjean felt the need to step in to say something about Hamilton.

Or maybe discussion of a post-race rule procedure being broken made Grosjean think it was a good time to bring up a post-race rule procedure being broken?

I don't know why you're jumping to conspiracy that Grosjean brought it up to 'defend' Ferrari/Vettel. It's perfectly logical for Grosjean to remember that when you think about what is being discussed at the time.

Just a coincidence that it was directed at Hamilton himself and not a general safety question?

I don't think it was a specific jab at Hamilton. He was the winner of this race and he did remove his seat belts, hence he was the one questioned. No other driver removed his seat belts (that I could see). If nothing else, Grosjean agreed that it was nice to see the driver waving at the fans.

However just in the previous race the rules were questioned about the safety procedures being followed after the race has ended. It's not so difficult to see why Grosjean wants to clarify if the safety procedures are to be followed or not.

Hamilton didn't win the race that was Verstappen so what Grosjean brought up had nothing to do with the last race which was the point of the meeting.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:59 pm 
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So an anti-Hamilton conspiracy is the more plausible reason?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Good.

It’s good to see drivers call out each other for flaunting the rules and the officials for not enforcing them.

Hamilton’s excuse that he wants to wave to his fans is vain beyond reason.

Charlie needed to grow a backbone and say “keep your belts on, all of you”.

Rules are there to cover the safety of all drivers. Just because one is currently winning more than the others, it doesn’t excuse him from the rules (or common sense).


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:50 pm 
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So Lewis gets to bring up a totally pointless rule infringement against his rival, and that's okay...

But if somebody else brings up a totally pointless rule infringement against Lewis they're suddenly out to get him?

:uhoh:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
So Lewis gets to bring up a totally pointless rule infringement against his rival, and that's okay...

But if somebody else brings up a totally pointless rule infringement against Lewis they're suddenly out to get him?

:uhoh:


It would be very funny if Hamilton received a penalty after trying to get Seb into trouble.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:30 pm 
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Some right old schoolyard stuff this is, I wonder if we will get to see more of the briefings? If we do, it won't be long before the PR departments will be all over it and the drivers will be reading preprepared statements and questions in them.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:49 pm 
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This is why I don't want these to be public. They should be allowed to be open and honest without fear of recrimination from the public.

As Flash says, the PR dept will be on them next.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:20 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
So Lewis gets to bring up a totally pointless rule infringement against his rival, and that's okay...

But if somebody else brings up a totally pointless rule infringement against Lewis they're suddenly out to get him?

:uhoh:

Which was pertinent to the last race that involved his main competition, Vettel was never going to get penalised, the time for that had already passed, I think it was more about Hamilton saying if you're not penalising Vettel then think before there is anything to penalise me for.

What Grosjean brought forward had nothing to do with the last race and was said immediately after Hamilton spoke so seemed to be tit for tat.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:53 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
So Lewis gets to bring up a totally pointless rule infringement against his rival, and that's okay...

But if somebody else brings up a totally pointless rule infringement against Lewis they're suddenly out to get him?

:uhoh:

Which was pertinent to the last race that involved his main competition, Vettel was never going to get penalised, the time for that had already passed, I think it was more about Hamilton saying if you're not penalising Vettel then think before there is anything to penalise me for.

What Grosjean brought forward had nothing to do with the last race and was said immediately after Hamilton spoke so seemed to be tit for tat.

c'mon pokerman, seriously. Even you must see how skewed that is. You're basically creating rules just to legitimise what Hamilton says and invalidate anything anyone else says.


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