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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:27 pm 
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F1 is ALWAYS tough to know, since so much is determined by equipment. Max has had some drives that are absolutely brilliant in his young career. Too many people in F1 grow up aggressive, passing in Karting, GP3. F2. etc.... then when they get to F1 they almost get timid and dont want to cause any problems, NOT so with MAx. Also, driving in the wet always seems to tell me who really is the best of the best. I kind of don't really think Lewis wants Max as a teammate. Between his style of driving, no backing down, his dad hanging around and everything else, I don't see Lewis really inviting a situation where they would ever be teammates. I am not sure if Max would be the best at every track in every condition, but at certain circuits, and if he doesn't throw a race away by being too aggressive, I think he could beat anyone.

Still hoping Fernando has a chance before he retires to get another championship, but he better hurry because the new guys are coming up.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:41 pm 
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I said it a month ago in my own thread (unpopular opinions):

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14436

And I only feel more confident now about my claim.

Verstappen is already ridiculously fast in qualifying. The qualifying battle between him and Ricciardo is 11-4, and Max had an engine problem in China. We are 15 races into the season and Dan has only beat Max 3 times clean in qualifying. Bottas has beat Hamilton more times than Dan has beat Max, and I rate Ricciardo higher than Bottas, so Verstappen is likely just as fast as Hamilton already, if not faster.

His starts are among the best in the field. His race pace and tyre management is consistently great in every circuit and in all conditions. He's on a different planet to Ricciardo every time it rains. His racecraft is sublime. He's very difficult to overtake (arguably dirty at times), and one of the best overtakers on the grid already (if not the outright best).

IMO he's the best driver on the grid already, and he's only going to get better.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:50 pm 
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I wouldnt be too confident that Verstappen is quicker than Hamilton

All Hamilton has to do is finish in front of Vettel for most of the rest of the races this year and he will become world champion. I bet he wasnt pushing as hard as possible in the race he has no need to take risks against Max who is notorious for being reckless and has a history of causing racing incidents.

If the racing title was down to the line I bet that the result would have been not so sure


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:50 pm 
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In terms of raw ability I rate him and Lewis as the best but he lacks the seasoning that Lewis has (obviously he's 12 years younger). In terms of being a complete package, I think there are still 2-3 guys who are currently better but I think that he would beat almost everyone in terms of raw pace. It would be interesting to see him teamed with Hamilton just to see how that would go. It's important to note that, due to his age, Max has definitely improved in F1 much more than most drivers do. He was beaten in qualifying in 2015 and 2016 at the hands of Sainz and Ricciardo. This year he has shown single lap pace that is outright scary. Daniel is a known fast driver and Max has really had him covered for most of the year.

He seems to have Hamilton's speed and aggression (and wet weather driving ability), Alonso's brilliant starts and restarts and Vettel's ability to manage the race from the lead. Only thing he lacks (and it's an important one) is consistency. He needs to properly calibrate his risk vs. reward circuits. Once that has been achieved, he will likely become the best in F1. But he isn't that now.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:56 pm 
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I don't think that Max is inconsistent at all. He's made one mistake all season (Hungary). Other than that he's been ridiculously unlucky. Do not confuse bad luck with a lack of consistency.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:18 pm 
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He has just turned 20 and already has served his F1 apprenticeship.

He isn't the finished article, but once he matures a bit psychologically and mentally (I am not saying he isn't already, but drivers and indeed sportsmen, get wiser and more calculated with age), he will be a phenomenon.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:33 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
He seems to have Hamilton's speed and aggression (and wet weather driving ability), Alonso's brilliant starts and restarts and Vettel's ability to manage the race from the lead. Only thing he lacks (and it's an important one) is consistency. He needs to properly calibrate his risk vs. reward circuits. Once that has been achieved, he will likely become the best in F1. But he isn't that now.


The bit in bold is a bit early to confirm, but the other points are probably true. What he needs is a dominant car, I can't see him at Ferrari SV wouldn't agree, Red Bull need a PU so that leaves Mercedes, I could see that happening as Hamilton seems less likely to be intimidated by young talent. If he doesn't get a top drive it doesn't matter how good he is he won't win championships

Having said that we have seen a lot of young talent emerge in recent years so whilst he may be the best driver currently the question is how big is the window and when does it close?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:02 am 
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Not yet as good all round as Alonso but still has a good 3/4 seasons of improvement in him.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:55 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Not yet as good all round as Alonso but still has a good 3/4 seasons of improvement in him.


As an Alonso fan, I'd put money on him to clean Alonso's clocks in equal machinery any day.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:00 am 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Not yet as good all round as Alonso but still has a good 3/4 seasons of improvement in him.


As an Alonso fan, I'd put money on him to clean Alonso's clocks in equal machinery any day.


Not right now. I'm sure the cross over will come soon though.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:05 am 
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Nah... He is supremely talented, but he is still too raw. His race craft needs polishing. He is undoubtedly extremely fast and may have the best natural speed on the grid, but he is not there yet in terms of overall ability.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:16 am 
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No way. He's VERY talented, but as good as he is, Hamilton was even better at his age and Hamilton today is an improved version of himself then.

Alonso is also better than Verstappen, as is Vettel and Kimi. He's right there though and given he will still get better he will be the best on the grid one day, but before that becomes the case I think a few of the guys I mentioned have to retire. I would love to see him paired with any one of them and see how he does but I'd guess it would be close for a while before he ends up besting the other guy.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:29 am 
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My goodness some people get carried away with a race win. Without doubt the kid is super talented and may one day be the best on the grid. Best on the grid right now, please.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:55 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
No way. He's VERY talented, but as good as he is, Hamilton was even better at his age and Hamilton today is an improved version of himself then.

Alonso is also better than Verstappen, as is Vettel and Kimi. He's right there though and given he will still get better he will be the best on the grid one day, but before that becomes the case I think a few of the guys I mentioned have to retire. I would love to see him paired with any one of them and see how he does but I'd guess it would be close for a while before he ends up besting the other guy.

Kimi? You're joking right? Verstappen is already MUCH better than Kimi (not that that's saying much). By comparison to other F1 drivers, Kimi is average at best.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:46 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
No way. He's VERY talented, but as good as he is, Hamilton was even better at his age and Hamilton today is an improved version of himself then.

Hamilton wasn't even in F1 on his 20th birthday. At that age, he just completed his first season in Formula 3 where he finished 5th in the standings.

Verstappen is two steps ahead of Vettel and Hamilton in the development curve. He has the highest ceiling of any driver I've ever seen.

Quote:
Alonso is also better than Verstappen, as is Vettel and Kimi. He's right there though and given he will still get better he will be the best on the grid one day, but before that becomes the case I think a few of the guys I mentioned have to retire. I would love to see him paired with any one of them and see how he does but I'd guess it would be close for a while before he ends up besting the other guy.

I sincerely hope that you are having a laugh.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:11 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
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No way. He's VERY talented, but as good as he is, Hamilton was even better at his age and Hamilton today is an improved version of himself then.

Hamilton wasn't even in F1 on his 20th birthday. At that age, he just completed his first season in Formula 3 where he finished 5th in the standings.

Verstappen is two steps ahead of Vettel and Hamilton in the development curve. He has the highest ceiling of any driver I've ever seen.

Quote:
Alonso is also better than Verstappen, as is Vettel and Kimi. He's right there though and given he will still get better he will be the best on the grid one day, but before that becomes the case I think a few of the guys I mentioned have to retire. I would love to see him paired with any one of them and see how he does but I'd guess it would be close for a while before he ends up besting the other guy.

I sincerely hope that you are having a laugh.


This is Verstappen 3rd F1 season despite him being 20 years old.
Verstappen had the luxury to start his F1 career when he was 17 unlike Hamilton who had to win all the trophies in lower series.
Speed doesn't depend on age, but experience and Verstappen is doing his 3rd(not 1st) year.

The thing I like about Max being in F1(although I still think it was a very BIG mistake by the FIA) is that nobody is talking anymore about Hamilton being "lucky" to start his career in a top team. :D
[I didn't like Vettel being pushed to young too to beat the records(RedBull obsession), and I honestly think that with the RB drivers, there is always something lacking]


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:35 am 
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I've never seen such a talent since I started to watch F1.

He's not a complete package like Alonso, but who is?
He's never had cars like Vettel or Lewis, but who has?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:08 am 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Not yet as good all round as Alonso but still has a good 3/4 seasons of improvement in him.

As an Alonso fan, I'd put money on him to clean Alonso's clocks in equal machinery any day.

... you're a weird Alonso fan, mate.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:23 am 
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I agree, I have to see more from him before I can rate him ahead of Hamilton/Vettel and then probably more still before I can rate him ahead of Alonso. I have a feeling that I will though when all is said and done.

I've said it before but those Red Bull boys could well be the best 2 drivers on the grid right now IMO.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:36 am 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Not yet as good all round as Alonso but still has a good 3/4 seasons of improvement in him.


As an Alonso fan, I'd put money on him to clean Alonso's clocks in equal machinery any day.


would love to see him go against alonso or vettel. two of the biggest whingers in f1 full of entitlement. a couple more seasons and with all things equal i think he would beat the pair of them. it would be hilarious to see alonso and vettel getting beat regularly. unfortunately it wont happen as neither would go up against him i dont think.

i also dont think he could beat hamilton yet but again in a couple of seasons it would be a close battle


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:05 am 
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No doubt at all Max will be WDC one day. Is he the best right now? I would say not, but he is only 20. By the time he's 25 he'll be in his 8th season. Max could well be one to challenge MS's records... but, we've heard 'all this' before haven't we? Sometimes it just doesn't work out the way you think. But he should have time to get in the right team at the right time and get at least 1-2 WDCs.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:21 am 
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Since the topic is the best driver, I think it's safe to say he isn't - yet. Whether he becomes the best is hard to say. Vettel still isn't, and probably never will be.

If it is true that Alonso is the best, then I would suggest Max's personal team look very hard at how Alonso became the best.

Is Max the fastest driver in F1 today? Again, difficult to say. But he might well become the fastest long before he might become the best. That takes insight and self-control, which is still lacking.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:49 am 
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In your opinion, yes.

The kid is good, but he still has to be able to mount a season long challenge. Yes yes, technical problems etc, but this is a result oriented activity.

It doesn't matter why you don't do it, all that matters is whether you did it or not.

Alonso is considered a super driver, yet if the results are not there, people easily forget. Not us chaps on the forum, but the viewers in general.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:01 am 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Not yet as good all round as Alonso but still has a good 3/4 seasons of improvement in him.


As an Alonso fan, I'd put money on him to clean Alonso's clocks in equal machinery any day.


would love to see him go against alonso or vettel. two of the biggest whingers in f1 full of entitlement. a couple more seasons and with all things equal i think he would beat the pair of them. it would be hilarious to see alonso and vettel getting beat regularly. unfortunately it wont happen as neither would go up against him i dont think.

i also dont think he could beat hamilton yet but again in a couple of seasons it would be a close battle


Hamilton is also a bit "affraid" of Max. I have no doubt that wheel to wheel, when both of them are actually fighting for that place, they will crash.

Hamilton and Alonso , Hamilton and Button, Hamilton and Webber side to side worked, because all of the 3 are very clean drivers. Hard, but clean. All of them if you look over the years, yielded when Hamilton was faster. Hence that is why they didn't crash.

Also, the media hype with Max, was fueled by the uk media also, because of the clashes with Lewis's rivals ( Nico and Sebastien ). Wait for them to get "busy on the track" and suddenly pundits will start doubting Max's abilities.

It's the same with Fernando, when he's not a challenge, super driver, when there is, he's not that great any more.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Pullrod wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
No way. He's VERY talented, but as good as he is, Hamilton was even better at his age and Hamilton today is an improved version of himself then.

Hamilton wasn't even in F1 on his 20th birthday. At that age, he just completed his first season in Formula 3 where he finished 5th in the standings.

Verstappen is two steps ahead of Vettel and Hamilton in the development curve. He has the highest ceiling of any driver I've ever seen.

Quote:
Alonso is also better than Verstappen, as is Vettel and Kimi. He's right there though and given he will still get better he will be the best on the grid one day, but before that becomes the case I think a few of the guys I mentioned have to retire. I would love to see him paired with any one of them and see how he does but I'd guess it would be close for a while before he ends up besting the other guy.

I sincerely hope that you are having a laugh.


This is Verstappen 3rd F1 season despite him being 20 years old.
Verstappen had the luxury to start his F1 career when he was 17 unlike Hamilton who had to win all the trophies in lower series.
Speed doesn't depend on age, but experience and Verstappen is doing his 3rd(not 1st) year.


Look, the statement was "Hamilton was even better at this age" but that's plainly false. "At this age", just turned 20, Hamilton had just been beaten by drivers like Premat, Lapierre or Green.

But if you want to compare F3: Verstappen, having just turned 17, was running higher in F3 (in his rookie F3 AND single seater season) than Hamilton did.

So let's just forget about that statement, OK? Hamilton at this age was not as good as Verstappen.

Now that doesn't mean Verstappen will become to be the best ever, or better than Hamilton, or whatever. Development curves are not exactly the same for each driver. But that above statement, rubbish.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:14 pm 
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My opinion then, I need to see him in really competitive machinery first, preferably next to Hamilton or Vettel.

Some rough edges to be polished, but could very well turn out to be the best of this current grid. Right now, I'd have him fourth behind Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton but not by much anymore. Maybe even ahead on pure driving (speed & tyre management) but a bit behind on the thinking part.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:27 pm 
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Hamilton and Verstappen are the last two drivers to come into the sport and you go "wow, this guy is very very good". The time before that for me was Schumacher.

The others like Alonso and Vettel probably didn't get a complete chance to showcase their full ability and even when they got into a top car earlier in their careers it wasn't so evident. (Alonso vs Trulli 2003, Vettel vs Webber 2009)

Hamilton in his rookie year (aged 23) is still superior to Verstappen in his 3rd year (aged 20) in my opinion. But then it becomes a debate of F1 experience vs age/ lower formula experience. I would put them at similar "experience rating" at those two times.

Max has 55+ races under his belt now. Michael Schumacher had just won his 2nd WDC at that point in his career. Not that that has much relevance, but its an interesting little fact.

Hamiltons rookie year, Verstappens 2016 and Schumachers 1992 are my three most impressive years from new drivers and the only time I've seen drivers that I knew were going to win championships - 100% and as I was watching thought to myself "how can this guy be so quick/good so early"

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:34 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Hamilton and Verstappen are the last two drivers to come into the sport and you go "wow, this guy is very very good". The time before that for me was Schumacher.

The others like Alonso and Vettel probably didn't get a complete chance to showcase their full ability and even when they got into a top car earlier in their careers it wasn't so evident. (Alonso vs Trulli 2003, Vettel vs Webber 2009)

Hamilton in his rookie year (aged 23) is still superior to Verstappen in his 3rd year (aged 20) in my opinion. But then it becomes a debate of F1 experience vs age/ lower formula experience. I would put them at similar "experience rating" at those two times.

Max has 55+ races under his belt now. Michael Schumacher had just won his 2nd WDC at that point in his career. Not that that has much relevance, but its an interesting little fact.

Hamiltons rookie year, Verstappens 2016 and Schumachers 1992 are my three most impressive years from new drivers and the only time I've seen drivers that I knew were going to win championships - 100% and as I was watching thought to myself "how can this guy be so quick/good so early"


For me from 2003 I was shocked by how good Alonso was. He destroyed Trulli and got pole in his 2nd competitive race, three podiums from the first 5 races and it's not like he had the best car or anything.

IMO Alonso's 03 season was better than Verstappen's 2016.

04 he was less exceptional.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:35 pm 
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I don't think he is yet.

But, he has massive talent, and has got himself into a good car early in his career.

A few years of polishing, and who knows he may well be...

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:46 pm 
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lamo wrote:


Hamilton in his rookie year (aged 23) is still superior to Verstappen in his 3rd year (aged 20) in my opinion. But then it becomes a debate of F1 experience vs age/ lower formula experience. I would put them at similar "experience rating" at those two times.


This. Hamilton was a far more impressive rookie than Verstappen. It's way, way, waaaaay too early to label Max as the best driver. He is so unproven in many situations that it isn't even close. Not even slightly.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:50 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Hamilton and Verstappen are the last two drivers to come into the sport and you go "wow, this guy is very very good". The time before that for me was Schumacher.

The others like Alonso and Vettel probably didn't get a complete chance to showcase their full ability and even when they got into a top car earlier in their careers it wasn't so evident. (Alonso vs Trulli 2003, Vettel vs Webber 2009)

Hamilton in his rookie year (aged 23) is still superior to Verstappen in his 3rd year (aged 20) in my opinion. But then it becomes a debate of F1 experience vs age/ lower formula experience. I would put them at similar "experience rating" at those two times.

Max has 55+ races under his belt now. Michael Schumacher had just won his 2nd WDC at that point in his career. Not that that has much relevance, but its an interesting little fact.

Hamiltons rookie year, Verstappens 2016 and Schumachers 1992 are my three most impressive years from new drivers and the only time I've seen drivers that I knew were going to win championships - 100% and as I was watching thought to myself "how can this guy be so quick/good so early"

Hamilton was 22 in his rookie year and yes, he was the most immediately impressive rookie I've seen. Honorable mention goes to Jacques Villeneuve but that was substantially less impressive because his teammate had the measure of him and that car was just in a league of its own.

Alonso wasn't bad at Minardi but it was 2003 where he first looked like a future champion. Button didn't look that great in his first couple of years. He had some solid performances but it wasn't until 2004 that I felt he might become champion some day. Raikkonen was impressive as a rookie but I think 2003 was the year he really emerged as well.

Going further back, Hakkinen in 1993 was quite impressive in how close he was to Senna at times. Schumacher in his first full season (1992) was clearly special. Senna in 1984 nearly won a race in a backmarker and put the sport on notice with that race at Monaco. Not as well known but equally impressive was his podium finish at Brands Hatch that year and when he went to Lotus the next year it was immediately clear that he was the fastest driver in F1.

Max came into the sport much younger. I thought he was impressive during the races in 2015 but underwhelming as a qualifier. Last year I felt much the same initially but towards the end of the season, he began to get the better of things on Saturdays. This year he has been consistently quicker than Daniel in qualifying and usually in the races too (for the period of time that he's actually in the race). He got away with a lot of questionable driving in his first couple of years and it seems the racing gods are punishing him this year but most of his misfortune this year is not really his fault at all. He's only made a couple of significant mistakes all year but he has put himself in some dangerous positions and he has taken some risks. This year will be a learning experience but, overall, I am very impressed with his performance. It's still mostly potential though. He hasn't been able to really put it all together yet. I think next year will be the first year where he does that and it should be something to see.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:52 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
lamo wrote:
Hamilton and Verstappen are the last two drivers to come into the sport and you go "wow, this guy is very very good". The time before that for me was Schumacher.

The others like Alonso and Vettel probably didn't get a complete chance to showcase their full ability and even when they got into a top car earlier in their careers it wasn't so evident. (Alonso vs Trulli 2003, Vettel vs Webber 2009)

Hamilton in his rookie year (aged 23) is still superior to Verstappen in his 3rd year (aged 20) in my opinion. But then it becomes a debate of F1 experience vs age/ lower formula experience. I would put them at similar "experience rating" at those two times.

Max has 55+ races under his belt now. Michael Schumacher had just won his 2nd WDC at that point in his career. Not that that has much relevance, but its an interesting little fact.

Hamiltons rookie year, Verstappens 2016 and Schumachers 1992 are my three most impressive years from new drivers and the only time I've seen drivers that I knew were going to win championships - 100% and as I was watching thought to myself "how can this guy be so quick/good so early"


For me from 2003 I was shocked by how good Alonso was. He destroyed Trulli and got pole in his 2nd competitive race, three podiums from the first 5 races and it's not like he had the best car or anything.

IMO Alonso's 03 season was better than Verstappen's 2016.

04 he was less exceptional.


Maybe you are right, Trulli wasn't that highly rated though and as you say 2004 took a bit of the shine off of Alonso. But I remember now, Spain 2003 for Alonso was a lot of peoples drive of the season.

I think the team mates are what make the other drivers early years that more impressive. Schumacher stepping in and on top of Piquet and then quite a bit ahead of Brundle whilst fighting Senna in races right away. Max against a highly rated Ric and of course Hamitlon vs Alonso.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:00 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Hamilton in his rookie year (aged 23) is still superior to Verstappen in his 3rd year (aged 20) in my opinion. But then it becomes a debate of F1 experience vs age/ lower formula experience. I would put them at similar "experience rating" at those two times.
I think you need to factor in that Hamilton had a title-challenging car in his first year, which Max has not. Not to take anything away from Hamilton, as it was an impressive performance, but I don't really see much to suggest that Verstappen wouldn't have been just as competitive had he been in the same fortunate position. Verstappen is looking mighty strong this year and I'm reasonably confident he would be challenging for the title in either a Merc or a Ferrari.

As to who is better at the same stage, I really don't know. I think the differences aren't that big tbh. The word "impressive" still comes to mind


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
lamo wrote:
Hamilton in his rookie year (aged 23) is still superior to Verstappen in his 3rd year (aged 20) in my opinion. But then it becomes a debate of F1 experience vs age/ lower formula experience. I would put them at similar "experience rating" at those two times.
I think you need to factor in that Hamilton had a title-challenging car in his first year, which Max has not. Not to take anything away from Hamilton, as it was an impressive performance, but I don't really see much to suggest that Verstappen wouldn't have been just as competitive had he been in the same fortunate position. Verstappen is looking mighty strong this year and I'm reasonably confident he would be challenging for the title in either a Merc or a Ferrari.

As to who is better at the same stage, I really don't know. I think the differences aren't that big tbh. The word "impressive" still comes to mind


On pure performance I think Hamilton was indeed more impressive in his rookie year. However, I think we shouldn't forget the fact that Verstappen had just one year of single seater racing under his belt. Hamilton had done and seen everything.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Fastest driver ? Sure he can stake a good claim for that. Best driver ? No way and his current points total against his teammate shows that. His racecraft and overtaking needs to make a quantum jump before he can be considered the best. Frankly his teammate who is currently less than a tenth slower in qualifying can make a far better claim to being the 'best' driver.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
lamo wrote:
Hamilton in his rookie year (aged 23) is still superior to Verstappen in his 3rd year (aged 20) in my opinion. But then it becomes a debate of F1 experience vs age/ lower formula experience. I would put them at similar "experience rating" at those two times.
I think you need to factor in that Hamilton had a title-challenging car in his first year, which Max has not. Not to take anything away from Hamilton, as it was an impressive performance, but I don't really see much to suggest that Verstappen wouldn't have been just as competitive had he been in the same fortunate position. Verstappen is looking mighty strong this year and I'm reasonably confident he would be challenging for the title in either a Merc or a Ferrari.

As to who is better at the same stage, I really don't know. I think the differences aren't that big tbh. The word "impressive" still comes to mind


The title challenge wasn't the impressive part of 2007 for me, it was his performance level against Alonso and his lack of errors. He had 9 straight podiums. He didn't have a single collision all year with another car. The podium run was only stopped by mostly bad luck at the Nurburgring in both the race and qualifying.

He didn't really make an error until China. Some might say Nurburgring was an error but 7 cars went off on the same lap in the same place so it was more pot luck if you survived the river than ran down the road. He made less errors than Raikkonen and Alonso that year and Alonso went into 2007 having made 1 single driver error over 2005 and 2006.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:22 pm 
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Probably not the best...yet. But definitely the most exciting in my opinion. I'd also be confident he'd give Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel a fair run for their money in equal machinery now.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:26 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Not yet as good all round as Alonso but still has a good 3/4 seasons of improvement in him.

As an Alonso fan, I'd put money on him to clean Alonso's clocks in equal machinery any day.

... you're a weird Alonso fan, mate.


Being a fan doesn't mean I worship him and think he can't be beat.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:43 pm 
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mas wrote:
Fastest driver ? Sure he can stake a good claim for that. Best driver ? No way and his current points total against his teammate shows that. His racecraft and overtaking needs to make a quantum jump before he can be considered the best. Frankly his teammate who is currently less than a tenth slower in qualifying can make a far better claim to being the 'best' driver.



Do you read what you post? Total points show absolutely nothing here. I am sure you understand why.
Racecraft and overtaking need to make a quantum jump? Really? I am sorry but I am all for "everyone is entitled to their opinion" but if you are this shortsighted than I can only expect that you carry some hatred against certain drivers.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:47 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Not yet as good all round as Alonso but still has a good 3/4 seasons of improvement in him.


As an Alonso fan, I'd put money on him to clean Alonso's clocks in equal machinery any day.


Not right now. I'm sure the cross over will come soon though.


Honestly, I think right now.


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