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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:48 pm 
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rivf1 wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
The reason for Toro Rosso trying out new drivers is that Red Bull are constantly seeking the next Vettel. Ricciardo and Verstappen prove the system work, but that system is also a revolving door at Toro Rosso. If you do not impress, if you do not show signs of being the next big thing, they show you the door. Red Bull must have seen something in Kvyat to keep him this long and give him so many chances. And thus, I would not be surprised if we see Kvyat in Williams next year, while Gasly has his seat for 2018.

I suspect Kvyat has the potential to being more sponsorship money to Williams than Kubica. And for Williams, that carries a lot of weight.


I don't think Kyvat fits the correct profile for Driver #1 at Williams. I'm sure there is, rather sillily, an age limitation for Williams to maintain their sponsorship which Kyvat doesn't meet. It's also why Di Resta is looking like he has a serious chance at the seat, who is another guy ejected from F1 far too quickly IMO.

To echo just about everyone else - Kyvat has pace, but RBR mentally ruined him.


Yeah there is an age requirement at williams, Martini require 1 of williams drivers to be 25 or older, so that rules out Kvyat as he only turned 23 this year.


I believe it is to do with advertising laws, you can't use someone younger than 25 to advertise alcohol or something...

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:56 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Can't have been easy for Kvyat, not only did RB not even offer a token defence for him after Vettel laid into him, they then used that incident as a convenient excuse to swap him and Verstappen, something that clearly highlights a total lack of support for him.


Racing is a dog eat dog world. Drivers have lost seats in the past, and will in the future. Would they have done better in ejecting him from F1 altogether? Would he have preferred that?
They gave him a chance to redeem himself. He's done well at times but he is just too inconsistent. Heck he may very well still have another chance next year.

If you can't cope with the pressure of having to prove yourself day in, day out, then you probably are not meant to last in F1. And that's harsh, I know, but that's how it is.

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He should have told Red Bull to swivel after the first demotion... hard to see where he goes from here even if he is back in the TR next year.


When RBR are saying "he stays in the family", that isn't necessarily a hollow statement to soothe the press. Look at Buemi and realize they can offer him a continued career of interesting racing, just not in F1. Whether he is or isn't in the STR next year, he probably knows this too and that's why he stays. And while a demotion, and eventually losing his seat is no doubt a bitter pill to swallow, I suspect he'll make his peace with it and enjoy racing elsewhere. Like so, so many other racing drivers have done.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:10 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
The reason for Toro Rosso trying out new drivers is that Red Bull are constantly seeking the next Vettel. Ricciardo and Verstappen prove the system work, but that system is also a revolving door at Toro Rosso. If you do not impress, if you do not show signs of being the next big thing, they show you the door. Red Bull must have seen something in Kvyat to keep him this long and give him so many chances. And thus, I would not be surprised if we see Kvyat in Williams next year, while Gasly has his seat for 2018.

I suspect Kvyat has the potential to being more sponsorship money to Williams than Kubica. And for Williams, that carries a lot of weight.


I don't think Kyvat fits the correct profile for Driver #1 at Williams. I'm sure there is, rather sillily, an age limitation for Williams to maintain their sponsorship which Kyvat doesn't meet. It's also why Di Resta is looking like he has a serious chance at the seat, who is another guy ejected from F1 far too quickly IMO.

To echo just about everyone else - Kyvat has pace, but RBR mentally ruined him.


Yeah there is an age requirement at williams, Martini require 1 of williams drivers to be 25 or older, so that rules out Kvyat as he only turned 23 this year.


I believe it is to do with advertising laws, you can't use someone younger than 25 to advertise alcohol or something...


Yeah i got no idea if it is a legal requirement in some country that Martini advertise in or if it's just something Martini chuck in their contract with williams? maybe it's to avoid having rookies in their promotional stuff talking about which corner they crashed at in Monaco while playing their PlayStation lol


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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:53 pm 
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I imagine it has a lot to do with target audience more than anything, I doubt you'll find too many teenagers/just legal drinkers knocking back the stuff. They appeal to an older audience and probably want an older driver to convey that image.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:25 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
mds wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Kvyat never recovered from the bashing he got from Vettel and his subsequent demotion, which is a shame because prior to that I thought he had made a decent fist of things. Probably got promoted a bit early and no one could have forseen Verstappen getting the call up quite so quickly.

Irony is, he will probably be back in the TR next year, unless Honda can pull some serious trickery regarding the super license rules.

Vettel never recovered his lost race in Russia either. You really never miss a smallest chance to spit on Vettel, don't you?


Among some the idea lives that Vettel somehow is responsible for Kvyat's demotion, as if Vettel ever had any say over what happened at RBR after he left them. Nonsense, of course.

While it is true that he wasn't really demoted because he did that badly, he wasn't demoted because of Vettel. Rather because RBR wanted to appease a certain Dutch driver, and probably because they thought he would do better than Kvyat (and rightly so, as it turned out). That Vettel complained wasn't a factor, but the incident itself (regardless of Vettel complaining) was used as the last drop to make the switch happen.


I never implied that Vettel is somehow responsible for his demotion, but the 2 events are inextricably linked. Can't have been easy for Kvyat, not only did RB not even offer a token defence for him after Vettel laid into him, they then used that incident as a convenient excuse to swap him and Verstappen, something that clearly highlights a total lack of support for him. That behaviour has continued with this announcement too, the wording is an absolute assassination of his driving and another blow to what appears to already be a pretty fragile mental state.

He should have told Red Bull to swivel after the first demotion... hard to see where he goes from here even if he is back in the TR next year. That said, its looking increasingly likely that Red Bull are on the way out of F1 either way... Gasly looks like the final cab off the rank for the junior drivers and the Aston Martin tie-up looks like the start of the exit strategy.

Absotively, posolutely!

To anyone harping on Kvyat, this is the same guy that was matching and at times outperforming the much touted Ricciardo while at Red Bull last year. Before the promotion of Verstappen he was looking every bit the part and was pretty gosh darn impressive. The dive down the inside of Vettel was as badass and masterful a move on supposed superior competition as we've ever seen, and the fact that Vettel was fuming over it and calling it a dangerous move was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard or seen in the history of F1 and I've been watching for about 40 years! The lack of support Red Bull showed him was the most cold blooded thing I think we've ever seen in the sport for a very long time, but let's be clear as to WHY he was "demoted" back down to Toro Rosso because many seem to think it was due to the double collision with Vettel or lees than excellent driving, when in fact that was the perfect cloak for Red Bull to utilize in order to "promote" Verstappen to the senior team, with the supposed reasoning being that they felt he was the better driver. And while Max looked to be quite solid, he wasn't setting the world ablaze by any stretch of the imagination to that point, and was continuously fussing and complaining over his radio to his team in rather immature fashion. He and his teammate were about as equal as it gets and one can make the argument that Sainz was getting the better results between them, which means he either wasn't a phenom, or that his teammate is even more of a phenom than he is.

The only reason Red Bull made the switch using their cockamamie reasoning was because Max was being courted and shopped around to several other teams and the only way Red Bull could keep him was to give him a seat at their flagship team. With Ricciardo also on the radars of other teams and rumors of links to some of them, Kvyat was simply the best fall guy and they acted without ever consulting with him, not even a heads up. Talk about dirtaaay. And all this BS about their YDP is horse manure… They pride themselves on developing young talent in order to be able to find the best to promote them to F1 because they're so passionate about the sport and the minute things don't go their way they gherkin and moan and threaten to leave if things don't change so the competitive advantage window swings back their way a bit. And now the Red Bull exit strategy seems to have begun cleverly disguised via the announcement that they're "partnering" up with Aston Martin who is still debating as to whether or not they'll be developing their own power units, so they're not even all in yet and they're promoting Gasly mid-season, once again at Kvyat's expense. Douche baggery of the worst kind. With Sainz driving for Renault next year anyway, why not give Gasly his seat so he can go and get acclimated with his new team while allowing the new guy to come to grips with F1 for the remainder of the season?

While fewer bountiful teams in the sport is not a good thing, Red Bull started out right, with all the best intentions, and they won everything convincingly, but once their era of dominance ended their DNA changed a bit, year by year, and not in a positive way. Headlines about their discontent because they are struggling and the constant threats to leave for a plethora of reasons make me wish they'd just rip off the band aide like a big kid and get on with life because they are a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Kyvat is thick-skinned and not a bit dopey so blunt truths need to be spelt out to him as he is not getting the subtle messages. The guy is quick occasionally but his driving decisions are generally bad in crucial situations. He needs to step back, analyze his career so far and do much better when he returns. This is his last chance before he is shown the exit door.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:50 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
And while Max looked to be quite solid, he wasn't setting the world ablaze by any stretch of the imagination to that point, and was continuously fussing and complaining over his radio to his team in rather immature fashion. He and his teammate were about as equal as it gets and one can make the argument that Sainz was getting the better results between them, which means he either wasn't a phenom, or that his teammate is even more of a phenom than he is.

I just can't agree with that. It's quite a stretch of the imagination to argue that Sainz got better results than Verstappen on race day. Sainz certainly had the lion's share of technical issues but he had no giant-killing days like Max had in Hungary and USA

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:08 pm 
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It would not surprise me in the least if Sainz is the 6th best driver on the grid after the big five.


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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:22 pm 
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mds wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mds wrote:
I had expected him for a seat for 2018. Stepping in during the season is not an easy task and it'll be interesting to see how he goes.

He does deserve it though. He's done enough over the past 4-5 years to deserve an F1 seat. His recent performances in Super Formula probably clinched the deal for him, he has turned the championship around and is now just half a point away from the lead.

This puts him in really good position for 2018. He won't be totally green and should be in position to impress. Red Bull know that tehy need to start thinking ahead because they are going to lose at least one of their lead drivers after 2018 and have already allowed Sainz to walk out the door.


I think if either Verstappen or Ricciardo leave after 2018, there's a good chance Sainz will come back. He's on loan, after all, and if RBR is still better than Renault next year then Sainz might be very willing to drive an RBR in 2019.

But yes, the current other drivers in the RBJT aren't really performing that well, and so Gasly would be quite safe for a few years to come and if he does well an RBR seat could definitely be on the cards. He's done well to wait it out and stay with them.

I wonder how Lynn is feeling, having left the RBJT on his own accord less than two years ago...

Lynn's results in GP2 were simply not good enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:26 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mds wrote:
I had expected him for a seat for 2018. Stepping in during the season is not an easy task and it'll be interesting to see how he goes.

He does deserve it though. He's done enough over the past 4-5 years to deserve an F1 seat. His recent performances in Super Formula probably clinched the deal for him, he has turned the championship around and is now just half a point away from the lead.

This puts him in really good position for 2018. He won't be totally green and should be in position to impress. Red Bull know that tehy need to start thinking ahead because they are going to lose at least one of their lead drivers after 2018 and have already allowed Sainz to walk out the door.


If Kvyat's been cast into the abyss then who's next off the production line aafter Gasly to replace Sainz next year?

And yeah interesting if Ricciardo does the bolt, as everyone expects at the end of 2018 & Renault want to keep hold of Sainz. That'll leave Verstappen, Gasly & God knows who else to fill 4 seats.

I think you will see Red Bull slowly scaling down their F1 operation, the junior program will go first.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:04 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
It would not surprise me in the least if Sainz is the 6th best driver on the grid after the big five.

I would quite easily rate Bottas and several others above Sainz at the moment. Sainz has been involved in several dangerous collisions over the past couple of years. The 2 this year especially looked about as bad as any other incident we have seen from drivers this year that we consider much worse. If he could be rated 6th, he needs to be better than this. The fact that Kvyat has looked better than him several races this year also makes me question how Sainz could be rated this high. Either Kvyat must occasionally be outstanding or Sainz still quite often has weaker races. Sainz himself has collected a lot of penalty points this year too and he's been responsible for as many retirements as Kvyat.


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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:18 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
It would not surprise me in the least if Sainz is the 6th best driver on the grid after the big five.

I would quite easily rate Bottas and several others above Sainz at the moment. Sainz has been involved in several dangerous collisions over the past couple of years. The 2 this year especially looked about as bad as any other incident we have seen from drivers this year that we consider much worse. If he could be rated 6th, he needs to be better than this. The fact that Kvyat has looked better than him several races this year also makes me question how Sainz could be rated this high. Either Kvyat must occasionally be outstanding or Sainz still quite often has weaker races. Sainz himself has collected a lot of penalty points this year too and he's been responsible for as many retirements as Kvyat.


There is a bigger gap between Sainz and Kvyat than there was between Ricciardo and Kvyat... Nobody is going to beat their team mate every race.


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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:29 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
It would not surprise me in the least if Sainz is the 6th best driver on the grid after the big five.

I would quite easily rate Bottas and several others above Sainz at the moment. Sainz has been involved in several dangerous collisions over the past couple of years. The 2 this year especially looked about as bad as any other incident we have seen from drivers this year that we consider much worse. If he could be rated 6th, he needs to be better than this. The fact that Kvyat has looked better than him several races this year also makes me question how Sainz could be rated this high. Either Kvyat must occasionally be outstanding or Sainz still quite often has weaker races. Sainz himself has collected a lot of penalty points this year too and he's been responsible for as many retirements as Kvyat.


There is a bigger gap between Sainz and Kvyat than there was between Ricciardo and Kvyat... Nobody is going to beat their team mate every race.

Yes, I certainly can agree there. But I do actually think Ricciardo is now a fair bit better than Sainz. But then they have not been against eachother so I guess we don't know. But I think Verstappen and Ricciardo are better than Sainz and Sainz is quite a lot better than Kvyat, but not in qualifying.


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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:32 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mds wrote:
I had expected him for a seat for 2018. Stepping in during the season is not an easy task and it'll be interesting to see how he goes.

He does deserve it though. He's done enough over the past 4-5 years to deserve an F1 seat. His recent performances in Super Formula probably clinched the deal for him, he has turned the championship around and is now just half a point away from the lead.

This puts him in really good position for 2018. He won't be totally green and should be in position to impress. Red Bull know that tehy need to start thinking ahead because they are going to lose at least one of their lead drivers after 2018 and have already allowed Sainz to walk out the door.


I think if either Verstappen or Ricciardo leave after 2018, there's a good chance Sainz will come back. He's on loan, after all, and if RBR is still better than Renault next year then Sainz might be very willing to drive an RBR in 2019.

But yes, the current other drivers in the RBJT aren't really performing that well, and so Gasly would be quite safe for a few years to come and if he does well an RBR seat could definitely be on the cards. He's done well to wait it out and stay with them.

I wonder how Lynn is feeling, having left the RBJT on his own accord less than two years ago...

Lynn's results in GP2 were simply not good enough.


Well, he was equal to Gasly in their rookie year there. Maybe he could have fought for the title as well if he'd gotten a Prema seat?

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:36 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mds wrote:
I had expected him for a seat for 2018. Stepping in during the season is not an easy task and it'll be interesting to see how he goes.

He does deserve it though. He's done enough over the past 4-5 years to deserve an F1 seat. His recent performances in Super Formula probably clinched the deal for him, he has turned the championship around and is now just half a point away from the lead.

This puts him in really good position for 2018. He won't be totally green and should be in position to impress. Red Bull know that tehy need to start thinking ahead because they are going to lose at least one of their lead drivers after 2018 and have already allowed Sainz to walk out the door.


I think if either Verstappen or Ricciardo leave after 2018, there's a good chance Sainz will come back. He's on loan, after all, and if RBR is still better than Renault next year then Sainz might be very willing to drive an RBR in 2019.

But yes, the current other drivers in the RBJT aren't really performing that well, and so Gasly would be quite safe for a few years to come and if he does well an RBR seat could definitely be on the cards. He's done well to wait it out and stay with them.

I wonder how Lynn is feeling, having left the RBJT on his own accord less than two years ago...

Lynn's results in GP2 were simply not good enough.


Well, he was equal to Gasly in their rookie year there. Maybe he could have fought for the title as well if he'd gotten a Prema seat?

The problem was that he didn't improve after his rookie season, DAMS are a very good team, Rowland has clearly been the second best driver in the series this season driving for DAMS whilst his teammate Latifi who was a rookie in the team last year and got crushed by Lynn, is now 5th in the series, Latifi who has a 5 year career record of just 1 win before this season with a career high of 5th in the British F3 series.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:10 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mds wrote:
I had expected him for a seat for 2018. Stepping in during the season is not an easy task and it'll be interesting to see how he goes.

He does deserve it though. He's done enough over the past 4-5 years to deserve an F1 seat. His recent performances in Super Formula probably clinched the deal for him, he has turned the championship around and is now just half a point away from the lead.

This puts him in really good position for 2018. He won't be totally green and should be in position to impress. Red Bull know that tehy need to start thinking ahead because they are going to lose at least one of their lead drivers after 2018 and have already allowed Sainz to walk out the door.


If Kvyat's been cast into the abyss then who's next off the production line aafter Gasly to replace Sainz next year?

And yeah interesting if Ricciardo does the bolt, as everyone expects at the end of 2018 & Renault want to keep hold of Sainz. That'll leave Verstappen, Gasly & God knows who else to fill 4 seats.

I think you will see Red Bull slowly scaling down their F1 operation, the junior program will go first.

I kind of agree. I think the parent company is done throwing money at it and don't have the patience to wait until 2021 for a chance to get the edge over their competition again.


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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:35 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
This puts him in really good position for 2018. He won't be totally green and should be in position to impress. Red Bull know that tehy need to start thinking ahead because they are going to lose at least one of their lead drivers after 2018 and have already allowed Sainz to walk out the door.


I think if either Verstappen or Ricciardo leave after 2018, there's a good chance Sainz will come back. He's on loan, after all, and if RBR is still better than Renault next year then Sainz might be very willing to drive an RBR in 2019.

But yes, the current other drivers in the RBJT aren't really performing that well, and so Gasly would be quite safe for a few years to come and if he does well an RBR seat could definitely be on the cards. He's done well to wait it out and stay with them.

I wonder how Lynn is feeling, having left the RBJT on his own accord less than two years ago...

Lynn's results in GP2 were simply not good enough.


Well, he was equal to Gasly in their rookie year there. Maybe he could have fought for the title as well if he'd gotten a Prema seat?

The problem was that he didn't improve after his rookie season, DAMS are a very good team, Rowland has clearly been the second best driver in the series this season driving for DAMS whilst his teammate Latifi who was a rookie in the team last year and got crushed by Lynn, is now 5th in the series, Latifi who has a 5 year career record of just 1 win before this season with a career high of 5th in the British F3 series.


DAMS are good but haven't been at the real front for a few years now. I think Lynn did improve, but Prema entered with incredible form and pushed all the rest down. I think maybe Lynn could have been at the top if he had driven for Prema.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:30 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
I think if either Verstappen or Ricciardo leave after 2018, there's a good chance Sainz will come back. He's on loan, after all, and if RBR is still better than Renault next year then Sainz might be very willing to drive an RBR in 2019.

But yes, the current other drivers in the RBJT aren't really performing that well, and so Gasly would be quite safe for a few years to come and if he does well an RBR seat could definitely be on the cards. He's done well to wait it out and stay with them.

I wonder how Lynn is feeling, having left the RBJT on his own accord less than two years ago...

Lynn's results in GP2 were simply not good enough.


Well, he was equal to Gasly in their rookie year there. Maybe he could have fought for the title as well if he'd gotten a Prema seat?

The problem was that he didn't improve after his rookie season, DAMS are a very good team, Rowland has clearly been the second best driver in the series this season driving for DAMS whilst his teammate Latifi who was a rookie in the team last year and got crushed by Lynn, is now 5th in the series, Latifi who has a 5 year career record of just 1 win before this season with a career high of 5th in the British F3 series.


DAMS are good but haven't been at the real front for a few years now. I think Lynn did improve, but Prema entered with incredible form and pushed all the rest down. I think maybe Lynn could have been at the top if he had driven for Prema.

I think that DAMS have shown this year that they are still one of the best teams at worse second only to Prema, it wasn't just the Prema drivers that were beating Lynn last year.

Look what Vandoorne achieved with ART, where were ART before and after he drove for them, Lynn should have had better results driving for DAMS.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:46 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lynn should have had better results driving for DAMS.


Gasly had the same results driving for DAMS, and look where he is this weekend.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Ennis wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
The reason for Toro Rosso trying out new drivers is that Red Bull are constantly seeking the next Vettel. Ricciardo and Verstappen prove the system work, but that system is also a revolving door at Toro Rosso. If you do not impress, if you do not show signs of being the next big thing, they show you the door. Red Bull must have seen something in Kvyat to keep him this long and give him so many chances. And thus, I would not be surprised if we see Kvyat in Williams next year, while Gasly has his seat for 2018.

I suspect Kvyat has the potential to being more sponsorship money to Williams than Kubica. And for Williams, that carries a lot of weight.


I don't think Kyvat fits the correct profile for Driver #1 at Williams. I'm sure there is, rather sillily, an age limitation for Williams to maintain their sponsorship which Kyvat doesn't meet. It's also why Di Resta is looking like he has a serious chance at the seat, who is another guy ejected from F1 far too quickly IMO.

To echo just about everyone else - Kyvat has pace, but RBR mentally ruined him.


Lance Stroll is 18, Kvyat is 23.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:51 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
The reason for Toro Rosso trying out new drivers is that Red Bull are constantly seeking the next Vettel. Ricciardo and Verstappen prove the system work, but that system is also a revolving door at Toro Rosso. If you do not impress, if you do not show signs of being the next big thing, they show you the door. Red Bull must have seen something in Kvyat to keep him this long and give him so many chances. And thus, I would not be surprised if we see Kvyat in Williams next year, while Gasly has his seat for 2018.

I suspect Kvyat has the potential to being more sponsorship money to Williams than Kubica. And for Williams, that carries a lot of weight.


I don't think Kyvat fits the correct profile for Driver #1 at Williams. I'm sure there is, rather sillily, an age limitation for Williams to maintain their sponsorship which Kyvat doesn't meet. It's also why Di Resta is looking like he has a serious chance at the seat, who is another guy ejected from F1 far too quickly IMO.

To echo just about everyone else - Kyvat has pace, but RBR mentally ruined him.


Lance Stroll is 18, Kvyat is 23.


It's widely reported that Williams have to have at least one driver that is 25+


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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:40 pm 
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So according to new reports, Gasly is in for just 2 races in order for Red Bull to better assess his ability.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:18 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
So according to new reports, Gasly is in for just 2 races in order for Red Bull to better assess his ability.


They really don't rate him do they?


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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:35 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lynn should have had better results driving for DAMS.


Gasly had the same results driving for DAMS, and look where he is this weekend.

They were both rookies, in his second season Lynn should have done better, Gasly didn't get into F1 on the back of his rookie season in GP2, far from it.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:39 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
So according to new reports, Gasly is in for just 2 races in order for Red Bull to better assess his ability.


They really don't rate him do they?

For the time being perhaps?

The race after that clashes with his Japan Super Formula commitments were he has a chance of the title.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:51 pm 
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Is there any chance they're killing two birds with one stone here?

- Kyvat is on the brink of a race ban because of penalty points. These will reset at Austin.
- Testing Gasly for 2 races means they can further test his ability while ensuring they Kyvat gets time out and can come back fresh with less pressure of getting a race ban.


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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:15 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lynn should have had better results driving for DAMS.


Gasly had the same results driving for DAMS, and look where he is this weekend.

They were both rookies, in his second season Lynn should have done better, Gasly didn't get into F1 on the back of his rookie season in GP2, far from it.


First part: maybe he would have done in a Prema seat.
Second part: nobody is saying so.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:18 pm 
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Sevenfest wrote:
- Kyvat is on the brink of a race ban because of penalty points. These will reset at Austin.


The penalty points don't reset... His counter will only go down by 2 points.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:37 pm 
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Sevenfest wrote:
Is there any chance they're killing two birds with one stone here?

- Kyvat is on the brink of a race ban because of penalty points. These will reset at Austin.
- Testing Gasly for 2 races means they can further test his ability while ensuring they Kyvat gets time out and can come back fresh with less pressure of getting a race ban.


When driver gets a ban is the team penalized with them or they can field their reserve driver?


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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:31 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lynn should have had better results driving for DAMS.


Gasly had the same results driving for DAMS, and look where he is this weekend.

They were both rookies, in his second season Lynn should have done better, Gasly didn't get into F1 on the back of his rookie season in GP2, far from it.


First part: maybe he would have done in a Prema seat.
Second part: nobody is saying so.

The reality is he only finished 6th and there was only 2 Prema cars, Rowland presently is performing better than what Lynn did in the same car, I very much doubt he would have beaten Gasly in the Prema car who is also performing really well in Japan in an inferior car, if he was a superstar he should have done better, he also got beat by Marciello, Sirotkin and Nato, neither of these have made it to F1 either, and only just beat Jordan King, he wasn't good enough.

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Last edited by pokerman on Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:32 pm 
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typaH4okc wrote:
Sevenfest wrote:
Is there any chance they're killing two birds with one stone here?

- Kyvat is on the brink of a race ban because of penalty points. These will reset at Austin.
- Testing Gasly for 2 races means they can further test his ability while ensuring they Kyvat gets time out and can come back fresh with less pressure of getting a race ban.


When driver gets a ban is the team penalized with them or they can field their reserve driver?

Of course they can, Kvyat wasn't replaced for fear of him being banned.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:35 pm 
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mds wrote:
Sevenfest wrote:
- Kyvat is on the brink of a race ban because of penalty points. These will reset at Austin.


The penalty points don't reset... His counter will only go down by 2 points.


Reset was the wrong word, I just meant they go down after Austin.


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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:45 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
typaH4okc wrote:
Sevenfest wrote:
Is there any chance they're killing two birds with one stone here?

- Kyvat is on the brink of a race ban because of penalty points. These will reset at Austin.
- Testing Gasly for 2 races means they can further test his ability while ensuring they Kyvat gets time out and can come back fresh with less pressure of getting a race ban.


When driver gets a ban is the team penalized with them or they can field their reserve driver?

Of course they can, Kvyat wasn't replaced for fear of him being banned.


I know it's reaching a bit, it was a theory posited in the comments section of Joe Saward's site and I wondered what people here thought. The idea that Kyvat is at breaking point and struggling to deal with the pressure of being this close to a ban - considering how broken he sounded when he put it in the wall at Singapore - is not beyond the realms of possibility though.


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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:52 pm 
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Sevenfest wrote:
pokerman wrote:
typaH4okc wrote:
Sevenfest wrote:
Is there any chance they're killing two birds with one stone here?

- Kyvat is on the brink of a race ban because of penalty points. These will reset at Austin.
- Testing Gasly for 2 races means they can further test his ability while ensuring they Kyvat gets time out and can come back fresh with less pressure of getting a race ban.


When driver gets a ban is the team penalized with them or they can field their reserve driver?

Of course they can, Kvyat wasn't replaced for fear of him being banned.


I know it's reaching a bit, it was a theory posited in the comments section of Joe Saward's site and I wondered what people here thought. The idea that Kyvat is at breaking point and struggling to deal with the pressure of being this close to a ban - considering how broken he sounded when he put it in the wall at Singapore - is not beyond the realms of possibility though.

Oh I see what you mean, interesting point.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:38 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:

Gasly had the same results driving for DAMS, and look where he is this weekend.

They were both rookies, in his second season Lynn should have done better, Gasly didn't get into F1 on the back of his rookie season in GP2, far from it.


First part: maybe he would have done in a Prema seat.
Second part: nobody is saying so.

The reality is he only finished 6th and there was only 2 Prema cars, Rowland presently is performing better than what Lynn did in the same car, I very much doubt he would have beaten Gasly in the Prema car who is also performing really well in Japan in an inferior car, if he was a superstar he should have done better, he also got beat by Marciello, Sirotkin and Nato, neither of these have made it to F1 either, and only just beat Jordan King, he wasn't good enough.


I wasn't making the point that he should have been in F1 though. I said I was wondering how he felt now after having left the RBJT on his own accord. And you can argue about whether he had what it takes, or what he would or wouldn't have done if he'd stayed and maybe landed a Prema seat, but it doesn't really matter that much, because I'm still going to wonder whether he feels leaving the RBJT was the best choice in hindsight.

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:47 am 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:

Gasly had the same results driving for DAMS, and look where he is this weekend.

They were both rookies, in his second season Lynn should have done better, Gasly didn't get into F1 on the back of his rookie season in GP2, far from it.


First part: maybe he would have done in a Prema seat.
Second part: nobody is saying so.

The reality is he only finished 6th and there was only 2 Prema cars, Rowland presently is performing better than what Lynn did in the same car, I very much doubt he would have beaten Gasly in the Prema car who is also performing really well in Japan in an inferior car, if he was a superstar he should have done better, he also got beat by Marciello, Sirotkin and Nato, neither of these have made it to F1 either, and only just beat Jordan King, he wasn't good enough.


I wasn't making the point that he should have been in F1 though. I said I was wondering how he felt now after having left the RBJT on his own accord. And you can argue about whether he had what it takes, or what he would or wouldn't have done if he'd stayed and maybe landed a Prema seat, but it doesn't really matter that much, because I'm still going to wonder whether he feels leaving the RBJT was the best choice in hindsight.

Good point about leaving the Red Bull program, maybe not the best choice that he made?

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:39 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
So according to new reports, Gasly is in for just 2 races in order for Red Bull to better assess his ability.


They really don't rate him do they?

He's finishing out the Super Formula season

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:02 am 
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mcdo wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
So according to new reports, Gasly is in for just 2 races in order for Red Bull to better assess his ability.


They really don't rate him do they?

He's finishing out the Super Formula season


But why the need to assess his abilities?


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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:56 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
So according to new reports, Gasly is in for just 2 races in order for Red Bull to better assess his ability.


They really don't rate him do they?

He's finishing out the Super Formula season


But why the need to assess his abilities?

My guess is that's just articles filling space. I mean, any brand new driver in a team is going to have their abilities assessed

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 Post subject: Re: Kyvat out, Gasly in
PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:57 am 
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mcdo wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
So according to new reports, Gasly is in for just 2 races in order for Red Bull to better assess his ability.


They really don't rate him do they?

He's finishing out the Super Formula season


But why the need to assess his abilities?

My guess is that's just articles filling space. I mean, any brand new driver in a team is going to have their abilities assessed


This is my assumption too - Toro Rosso have no other realistic choices for next season other than Gasly and Kyvat (Unless Honda really, really want a say in this) so question of whether he's ready for next season is moot.

I assume someone at the team said "we thought we'd see how he performed when we chucked him in the car last minute" and someone's taken this to mean a formal assessment.


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