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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Verstappen, Magnussen, Vandoorne, Ocon, Wehrlein and I'll throw in LeClerc for those who really wanna put on their future specs.

How do you rate the prospects of these drivers to become one of the best or the best in the field in the future?

Edit: + Lance Stroll -- I just blanked out.

Edit: + Sainz -- LOL!


Last edited by Invade on Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Becoming one of the best is as much about getting into the best car as anything else. In order of how likely I think it is that they will be thought of as 'one of the best'.

1. Verstappen
I'm almost certain he will be in the 'who's the best' discussions once Ham/Vet/Alo have retired and everyone stops debating them. There's always the chance he will make a bad decision career wise but he has Mercedes and Ferrari looking at him as a potential future driver and I'm certain Renault/McLaren etc would jump at the chance to sign him so he has no shortage of potential top drives.

2. Vandoorne
He has shown talent in GP2 and appears to now be finding his feet in F1. He has a solid drive with McLaren for the future and if he continues to perform how he is now he should be in contention for other teams by the time he's ready to leave.

3. Ocon
Mercedes connections and solid performance at Force India so far. He needs to start to overtake Perez now though and by the end of next year he needs to be the clear better driver to impress top teams enough to sign him.

4. Leclerc
Seems to have big talent and connections with a top team. Bad news is that team is Ferrari who don't tend to go for unproven drivers and like to stick with tried and tested. Performing well in a Sauber may not be enough for a Ferrari drive but based on his visible talent he should find seats elsewhere pretty easily

5. Wehrlein
Hasn't been convincing enough. Seems like he would make a decent midfield driver but I can't see him being a top talent, Ocon has also overtaken him seemingly in Mercedes junior ranks and he doesn't have long before Russell comes along.

6. Magnussen
As with Wehrlein I'm pretty sure he will never be a top driver. He's had his time and shown himself to be decent but not spectacular.


Last edited by Black_Flag_11 on Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Verstappen will go onto be an absolute star.

Ocon, Vandoorne, Leclerc, Wehrlein could go on to be top draw but need to be given the chances to show it. Looks like Wehrlein won't get that chance sadly.

Magnussen I think he is showing what he is. A lower midfield driver. Probably a shade down on Grosjean is a fair reflection. I wouldn't really group him with the others.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:54 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Verstappen will go onto be an absolute star.

Ocon, Vandoorne, Leclerc, Wehrlein could go on to be top draw but need to be given the chances to show it. Looks like Wehrlein won't get that chance sadly.

Magnussen I think he is showing what he is. A lower midfield driver. Probably a shade down on Grosjean is a fair reflection. I wouldn't really group him with the others.

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:26 pm 
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I'd typed out a long response, went to post it and found I'd been logged out, and then it disappeared once I'd been logged back in. But the essence of it was:

Verstappen - has the potential to be a generational talent, i.e. Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso. He just needs luck with being in the right places at the right time, i.e. Hamilton/Vettel and not Alonso!
Leclerc - coming into F1 with as strong a junior career as anyone for a long time. He's been a class above in F2 this year and is going to be a star in F1. I expect him to dominate Giovinazzi or Ericsson at Sauber next year.
Vandoorne - fantastic junior career and he's now getting better with each race in F1. Looking forward to seeing him against Alonso in a car that has a vaguely competitive and reliable engine. I've got him just below Leclerc because he's five years older and Charles' junior career has been stronger, but he's also going to have a stellar F1 career.
Ocon - has jumped Wehrlein in the Merc pecking order, fantastically consistent (as he was in GP3) but the spat with Perez + his quali performance are letting him down. Strikes me as being the kind of guy who might have a career arc like Rosberg or Button, i.e. solid midfield driver who can win a single WDC in the right circumstances, but might end up topping out as a strong midfield driver.
Stroll - not sure why he was left off the initial post given the topic at hand? Great F3 title year although there are question marks about how level the playing field was. All over the place in F1, which is perhaps to be expected as an 18-year-old rookie. There is a talented driver in there but he's severely lacking consistency right now.
Wehrlein - looking like he won't be on the grid next year. Still a Mercedes junior driver but I'd be amazed if he hasn't fallen behind Ocon in their thinking. Might get back on the grid in 2019, although if George Russell steps up to F2 and wins it (unlikely) then Pascal might have a real problem on his hands.
Magnussen - wouldn't be shocked to see him fall off the F1 grid at the end of next year. Hasn't shown anything to suggest he's better than Grosjean.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
I'd typed out a long response, went to post it and found I'd been logged out, and then it disappeared once I'd been logged back in. But the essence of it was:

Verstappen - has the potential to be a generational talent, i.e. Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso. He just needs luck with being in the right places at the right time, i.e. Hamilton/Vettel and not Alonso!
Leclerc - coming into F1 with as strong a junior career as anyone for a long time. He's been a class above in F2 this year and is going to be a star in F1. I expect him to dominate Giovinazzi or Ericsson at Sauber next year.
Vandoorne - fantastic junior career and he's now getting better with each race in F1. Looking forward to seeing him against Alonso in a car that has a vaguely competitive and reliable engine. I've got him just below Leclerc because he's five years older and Charles' junior career has been stronger, but he's also going to have a stellar F1 career.
Ocon - has jumped Wehrlein in the Merc pecking order, fantastically consistent (as he was in GP3) but the spat with Perez + his quali performance are letting him down. Strikes me as being the kind of guy who might have a career arc like Rosberg or Button, i.e. solid midfield driver who can win a single WDC in the right circumstances, but might end up topping out as a strong midfield driver.
Stroll - not sure why he was left off the initial post given the topic at hand? Great F3 title year although there are question marks about how level the playing field was. All over the place in F1, which is perhaps to be expected as an 18-year-old rookie. There is a talented driver in there but he's severely lacking consistency right now.
Wehrlein - looking like he won't be on the grid next year. Still a Mercedes junior driver but I'd be amazed if he hasn't fallen behind Ocon in their thinking. Might get back on the grid in 2019, although if George Russell steps up to F2 and wins it (unlikely) then Pascal might have a real problem on his hands.
Magnussen - wouldn't be shocked to see him fall off the F1 grid at the end of next year. Hasn't shown anything to suggest he's better than Grosjean.


I would argue that Vandoorne's junior career was at least as strong as Leclerc, if not perhaps stronger.

I think Vandoorne's been doing really well recently. He's against a top driver in a crap car. Almost impossible for a rookie to shine in such circumstances. I hope him not matching Alonso won't mean he is judged to harshly, or people discount him as not being top tier in the future because he couldn't match a tier 1 driver in his first couple of years.

EDIT - Thinking about it Alonso's age also counts against Vandoorne. If he even beats Alonso next year people will put it down to Alonso's age. Unless of course, the Mclaren is a real top car and he can get numerous wins/podiums. Then any driver gets credit.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:03 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
I'd typed out a long response, went to post it and found I'd been logged out, and then it disappeared once I'd been logged back in. But the essence of it was:

Verstappen - has the potential to be a generational talent, i.e. Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso. He just needs luck with being in the right places at the right time, i.e. Hamilton/Vettel and not Alonso!
Leclerc - coming into F1 with as strong a junior career as anyone for a long time. He's been a class above in F2 this year and is going to be a star in F1. I expect him to dominate Giovinazzi or Ericsson at Sauber next year.
Vandoorne - fantastic junior career and he's now getting better with each race in F1. Looking forward to seeing him against Alonso in a car that has a vaguely competitive and reliable engine. I've got him just below Leclerc because he's five years older and Charles' junior career has been stronger, but he's also going to have a stellar F1 career.
Ocon - has jumped Wehrlein in the Merc pecking order, fantastically consistent (as he was in GP3) but the spat with Perez + his quali performance are letting him down. Strikes me as being the kind of guy who might have a career arc like Rosberg or Button, i.e. solid midfield driver who can win a single WDC in the right circumstances, but might end up topping out as a strong midfield driver.
Stroll - not sure why he was left off the initial post given the topic at hand? Great F3 title year although there are question marks about how level the playing field was. All over the place in F1, which is perhaps to be expected as an 18-year-old rookie. There is a talented driver in there but he's severely lacking consistency right now.
Wehrlein - looking like he won't be on the grid next year. Still a Mercedes junior driver but I'd be amazed if he hasn't fallen behind Ocon in their thinking. Might get back on the grid in 2019, although if George Russell steps up to F2 and wins it (unlikely) then Pascal might have a real problem on his hands.
Magnussen - wouldn't be shocked to see him fall off the F1 grid at the end of next year. Hasn't shown anything to suggest he's better than Grosjean.


I would argue that Vandoorne's junior career was at least as strong as Leclerc, if not perhaps stronger.

I think Vandoorne's been doing really well recently. He's against a top driver in a crap car. Almost impossible for a rookie to shine in such circumstances. I hope him not matching Alonso won't mean he is judged to harshly, or people discount him as not being top tier in the future because he couldn't match a tier 1 driver in his first couple of years.

EDIT - Thinking about it Alonso's age also counts against Vandoorne. If he even beats Alonso next year people will put it down to Alonso's age. Unless of course, the Mclaren is a real top car and he can get numerous wins/podiums. Then any driver gets credit.


In the longer, lost version of what I actually posted, I said that I thought Vandoorne was pretty harshly criticised earlier in the season. Yes, he had some silly incidents, but in general the criticism that he was too far away from Alonso for someone that was supposed to be a future star didn't seem right. For a start, as a rookie one of the most important things was getting time in the car. The Honda engine's unreliability severely limited what time he actually had, both in pre-season and over the race weekends, and while that was still an issue for Alonso, Fernando at least had all the knowledge he has built up of the car, the tyres and the circuits to fall back on. Stoffel didn't have that, so stood to lose more by not being able to run. Additionally, he's up against Fernando Alonso, considered one of the best drivers on the grid and someone who has a reputation for being able to get absolutely everything out of the machinery he has. It was always going to be tough in those circumstances, no matter what kind of junior resume he had.

Talking of which, I think you're probably right that from start to finish, Vandoorne had the better junior career, and retrospectively I shouldn't have referred to the whole thing but instead focused solely on their GP/F2 performances. That was what was at the forefront of my mind when I typed that, and I shouldn't have, especially as I do know all Stoffel achieved before reaching F1. Both had fantastic championship seasons in GP/F2, but the way Leclerc has come in as a rookie and done what he's done has blown me away.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
I'd typed out a long response, went to post it and found I'd been logged out, and then it disappeared once I'd been logged back in. But the essence of it was:

Verstappen - has the potential to be a generational talent, i.e. Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso. He just needs luck with being in the right places at the right time, i.e. Hamilton/Vettel and not Alonso!
Leclerc - coming into F1 with as strong a junior career as anyone for a long time. He's been a class above in F2 this year and is going to be a star in F1. I expect him to dominate Giovinazzi or Ericsson at Sauber next year.
Vandoorne - fantastic junior career and he's now getting better with each race in F1. Looking forward to seeing him against Alonso in a car that has a vaguely competitive and reliable engine. I've got him just below Leclerc because he's five years older and Charles' junior career has been stronger, but he's also going to have a stellar F1 career.
Ocon - has jumped Wehrlein in the Merc pecking order, fantastically consistent (as he was in GP3) but the spat with Perez + his quali performance are letting him down. Strikes me as being the kind of guy who might have a career arc like Rosberg or Button, i.e. solid midfield driver who can win a single WDC in the right circumstances, but might end up topping out as a strong midfield driver.
Stroll - not sure why he was left off the initial post given the topic at hand? Great F3 title year although there are question marks about how level the playing field was. All over the place in F1, which is perhaps to be expected as an 18-year-old rookie. There is a talented driver in there but he's severely lacking consistency right now.
Wehrlein - looking like he won't be on the grid next year. Still a Mercedes junior driver but I'd be amazed if he hasn't fallen behind Ocon in their thinking. Might get back on the grid in 2019, although if George Russell steps up to F2 and wins it (unlikely) then Pascal might have a real problem on his hands.
Magnussen - wouldn't be shocked to see him fall off the F1 grid at the end of next year. Hasn't shown anything to suggest he's better than Grosjean.


I would argue that Vandoorne's junior career was at least as strong as Leclerc, if not perhaps stronger.

I think Vandoorne's been doing really well recently. He's against a top driver in a crap car. Almost impossible for a rookie to shine in such circumstances. I hope him not matching Alonso won't mean he is judged to harshly, or people discount him as not being top tier in the future because he couldn't match a tier 1 driver in his first couple of years.

EDIT - Thinking about it Alonso's age also counts against Vandoorne. If he even beats Alonso next year people will put it down to Alonso's age. Unless of course, the Mclaren is a real top car and he can get numerous wins/podiums. Then any driver gets credit.


In the longer, lost version of what I actually posted, I said that I thought Vandoorne was pretty harshly criticised earlier in the season. Yes, he had some silly incidents, but in general the criticism that he was too far away from Alonso for someone that was supposed to be a future star didn't seem right. For a start, as a rookie one of the most important things was getting time in the car. The Honda engine's unreliability severely limited what time he actually had, both in pre-season and over the race weekends, and while that was still an issue for Alonso, Fernando at least had all the knowledge he has built up of the car, the tyres and the circuits to fall back on. Stoffel didn't have that, so stood to lose more by not being able to run. Additionally, he's up against Fernando Alonso, considered one of the best drivers on the grid and someone who has a reputation for being able to get absolutely everything out of the machinery he has. It was always going to be tough in those circumstances, no matter what kind of junior resume he had.

Talking of which, I think you're probably right that from start to finish, Vandoorne had the better junior career, and retrospectively I shouldn't have referred to the whole thing but instead focused solely on their GP/F2 performances. That was what was at the forefront of my mind when I typed that, and I shouldn't have, especially as I do know all Stoffel achieved before reaching F1. Both had fantastic championship seasons in GP/F2, but the way Leclerc has come in as a rookie and done what he's done has blown me away.


:thumbup:

Leclerc has put in the best season at that level certainly of the last 25 years if not ever. The only frustrating thing is that next year we may see him against another rookie in the worst car. Pretty much nothing he can do to stand out. I would say score points but Wehrlein did that last year for Manor and still took criticism and generally people were not impressed.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:44 pm 
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Leclerc/Verstappen/Vandoorne/Ocon/Magnussen/Wehrlein in that order.

Leclerc seems to be the second coming of Jim Clark, very fast and smooth effortless overtaker with great positioning and timing.

Verstappen is ultra quick but also very clumsy and I'm not certain he will ever overcome that as his ego affects his driving causing him to take undue risks and not admit blame to himself if he is at fault. He unfortunately could be remembered as just a very fast Maldonado if he doesn't change.

Vandoorne is very quick but not ultra quick like the elite and a competent racer.

Ocon is quick and an ok racer but not exceptional, a bit like Magnussen but probably a little more feistier than the latter.

Wehrlein is overrated as a prospect especially when you compare what say Nasr did against Ericsson. He's got good speed but not exceptional and a bit clumsy in races.

I see only Leclerc/Verstappen/Vandoorne as potential wdcs but the latter will need a weaker teammate to pull it off as he's in Button league while the first two are more closer to Hamilton/Alonso level.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:52 pm 
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Invade wrote:
How do you rate the prospects of these drivers to become one of the best or the best in the field in the future?

I note that the question mentions nothing about success, but many people are answering it as if it were 'who will be thought of best' or 'who will be most successful'. I'll answer it both ways, but the ranking will be by how good I expect them to be, not what they'll achieve.

1. Charles Leclerc
This is taking a leap of faith, I know, but I just see unlimited potential for him, and being a Ferrari junior carries the implication of getting into a car that will never be far from the top, allowing him to make good use of his ability. There's still a chance that he's just dominating a weak F2 field, but this is based on what I believe right now.

2. Max Verstappen
I don't rate Max has highly as a lot of people do, and I make no secret of it. However, he is still clearly one of the best drivers on the grid, and even if he doesn't improve from where he's at now he will stay that way for some time. I don't see his career statistics ever becoming that impressive; he became Red Bull's big thing right as Red Bull were in decline, and I think he'll find that switching to a different winning team is far harder than just being a great driver.

3. Esteban Ocon
I debated his position a lot with myself. I see him as not as quick as Max or Leclerc in outright pace, but extremely consistent and very polished. He still has room to grow as well, but once (if) Max irons out his consistency issues he will probably turn out as the better driver. Ocon has poor prospects for success in his career at present, but may be next in line for a Mercedes drive; if so, his numbers might end up being the best of all.

4. Stoffel Vandoorne
I'm not trying to be harsh on Stoff; I think he's doing better than people give him credit for. However, I also think he's the most fully developed of all the drivers listed, and I don't expect him to improve very much from where he is now. Unfortunately, despite being a Macca fan, I don't see him having very much success in his career; Macca will be too slow to win titles until at least 2021, and by that point there's a good chance that another driver such as Norris will arrive and give him trouble. More on that later.

These are the four I see as clearly the best of the current lot. Behind them are:

5. Pascal Wehrlein
Occasionally spectacular (or relatively so, at least) but hasn't shown the week-in, week-out pace of the others. I see him as another Bottas-level driver. His chances of WDCs are low, and his chances of records are effectively none.

6. Lance Stroll
Stroll is hard to read, but I don't see him ever becoming WDC caliber. There is a small chance he will grow into a late-bloomer WDC in the Button style, but I expect him to solidify as a moderately talented pay driver in the midfield.

7. Kevin Magnussen
Magnussen is a mediocre F1 driver, unfortunately, and will never win a WDC or - in all likelihood - a race. He was thrashed by Button, didn't dominate Palmer the way a good driver has been able to, and is now appearing slightly weaker than the career midfielder Grosjean. He has probably reached his full potential already.

And finally...

?. Lando Norris
As a McLaren fan, I am of course excited by Norris, but it's way too early to rate him. Until he's driven at a higher level in the junior series, he will remain as a highly promising prospect. I think and hope he has the potential to reach the top four (or maybe even three) on this list.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:32 am 
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Adding Norris and Stroll to my list I would then make it

Leclerc/Verstappen/Norris/Vandoorne/
Ocon/Stroll/Magnussen/Wehrlein

Norris looks exceptional and mature for his age and quick.

Stroll ultimately looks a good midfield driver to me.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:58 am 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L42H4vkbHYc

Just a little something which could be prescient.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:21 am 
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I have often thought it would be nice to have a series on say Saturday after qualli where maybe 12 non 'signed up' drivers or 'spare' drivers had a race in similar cars. It would be nice to have some sort of direct comparison, maybe even make it a condition of being a full F1 that 6 of these events are done first?

Maybe the same as the full race car with limited aero and power so the teams would not have to lug around much extra 'stuff' and we (and team bosses) could judge drivers not cars.

Even in f/gp2 the car makes a big difference to how good the driver looks.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:37 am 
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I did consider including Norris but I don't feel like we have an accurate enough picture of him yet to do so, especially against the rest of the names who are either in F1 or on the very cusp of it. The irony is that should he land the Prema F2 drive he's been linked to, it's entirely possible this time next year he could be in the very position Leclerc is in now! I also cannot believe that, having spent the last 18 months talking up how Ferrari should be chasing him as their replacement for Kimi, I managed to leave Carlos Sainz off my list :lol: I'd have him above Ocon for sure but probably between Leclerc and Vandoorne.

Now all we need is an F1 where four or five teams are capable of winning races, and the majority of their seats are taken by Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Verstappen, Ricciardo, Sainz, Leclerc and Vandoorne...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:40 am 
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moby wrote:
I have often thought it would be nice to have a series on say Saturday after qualli where maybe 12 non 'signed up' drivers or 'spare' drivers had a race in similar cars. It would be nice to have some sort of direct comparison, maybe even make it a condition of being a full F1 that 6 of these events are done first?

Maybe the same as the full race car with limited aero and power so the teams would not have to lug around much extra 'stuff' and we (and team bosses) could judge drivers not cars.

Even in f/gp2 the car makes a big difference to how good the driver looks.


I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Liberty attempt to arrange some sort of once-a-year race where the F1 drivers go up against each other in the same machinery. Not to say it'll happen (contracts are bound to get in the way, unfortunately) but it seems like the kind of thing they'd want to do.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:55 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
moby wrote:
I have often thought it would be nice to have a series on say Saturday after qualli where maybe 12 non 'signed up' drivers or 'spare' drivers had a race in similar cars. It would be nice to have some sort of direct comparison, maybe even make it a condition of being a full F1 that 6 of these events are done first?

Maybe the same as the full race car with limited aero and power so the teams would not have to lug around much extra 'stuff' and we (and team bosses) could judge drivers not cars.

Even in f/gp2 the car makes a big difference to how good the driver looks.


I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Liberty attempt to arrange some sort of once-a-year race where the F1 drivers go up against each other in the same machinery. Not to say it'll happen (contracts are bound to get in the way, unfortunately) but it seems like the kind of thing they'd want to do.


I think this was talked about before and it was not possible due to sponsors. Same as the Race of Champions thing they wanted.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:24 am 
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1. Verstappen
2. Ocon
3. Leclerc
4. Sainz
5. Stroll
6. Vandoorne
Edit: 7. Wehrlein
8. Magnussen


Verstappen's raw speed is brilliant. Anyone who can out-qualify Daniel Ricciardo is doing a very good job. Verstappen is the most likely to be WDC.

Ocon is really starting to show his capability and he's a solid driver all round. I think we will see him move towards some bigger teams in the next couple of years.

Leclerc looks the goods, but some drivers look better outside F1 than in it (e.g. Jolyon Palmer).

Sainz is a solid driver, he will have more success once he graduates from Toro Rosso.

Stroll was looking humorously bad at the beginning of the year, but now he is proving to have some talent. Will the bigger teams want him though?

Vandoorne doesn't really deserve to be neglected, but so far he hasn't had many outstanding results. Will be good to see what he can do without a Honda.

Edit: Oops forgot Wehrlein! And maybe that says it all. He's not really setting the world on fire and there's been (unconfirmed) reports from teams that he is difficult to work with. Mercedes didn't rate him well enough to put him in the seat vacated by Rosberg. He doesn't seem destined for big things.

Magnussen... I don't rate him. He's mediocre and I can't see him ever being wanted by the big teams. His attitude is lacking and I think he'll be in F1 for only a couple more years (once the new generation show what they can do).


Last edited by oz_karter on Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:43 am 
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oz_karter wrote:
Leclerc looks the goods, but some drivers look better outside F1 than in it (e.g. Jolyon Palmer).


I do agree with the point that junior success doesn't always translate to success in F1, but Palmer's a very, very poor example to use. In his rookie GP2 season, Palmer scored all of zero points in 18 races and finished no higher than ninth. He improved his results every season but didn't even feature in the title battle until the year he won it, which was his fourth GP2 season. Leclerc, in his rookie season, has already taken more poles and won more races than Palmer did over his entire championship year.

In general, guys who spend three/four years at F2 level before actually fighting for the title have only got to that point courtesy of the advantage the experience gives them.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:02 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Verstappen will go onto be an absolute star.

Ocon, Vandoorne, Leclerc, Wehrlein could go on to be top draw but need to be given the chances to show it. Looks like Wehrlein won't get that chance sadly.

Magnussen I think he is showing what he is. A lower midfield driver. Probably a shade down on Grosjean is a fair reflection. I wouldn't really group him with the others.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:50 pm 
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The probability of Leclerc joining the 2018 grid has only become more likely as he's getting a FP outing in a Sauber at Malaysia:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/09/21/leclerc-gets-sauber-practice-runs/

This will 1 of the 4 practice runs that he'll be getting with the Sauber.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:39 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
The probability of Leclerc joining the 2018 grid has only become more likely as he's getting a FP outing in a Sauber at Malaysia:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/09/21/leclerc-gets-sauber-practice-runs/

This will 1 of the 4 practice runs that he'll be getting with the Sauber.

He'll be driving for Sauber next year almost certainly. Perhaps Ferrari will shell out some cash to make up for whatever they lose with Ericcson; who hasn't been terrible but I think we've seen enough to conclude that he's nothing special by now. I hope that Sauber's financial situation has improved as much as the rumors suggest. I'd like to see Leclerc with at least a lower-midfield shot next year.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:34 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
The probability of Leclerc joining the 2018 grid has only become more likely as he's getting a FP outing in a Sauber at Malaysia:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/09/21/leclerc-gets-sauber-practice-runs/

This will 1 of the 4 practice runs that he'll be getting with the Sauber.

He'll be driving for Sauber next year almost certainly. Perhaps Ferrari will shell out some cash to make up for whatever they lose with Ericcson; who hasn't been terrible but I think we've seen enough to conclude that he's nothing special by now. I hope that Sauber's financial situation has improved as much as the rumors suggest. I'd like to see Leclerc with at least a lower-midfield shot next year.


It's more and more likely we are going with Leclerc and Giovinazzi.

Giovinazzi himself could be a real talent.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:31 am 
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moby wrote:
Even in f/gp2 the car makes a big difference to how good the driver looks.


I'm not sure about that...
2012: Valsecchi wins it with DAMS. Teammate Nasr is nowhere.
2013: Leimer takes the title with RE, who were fourth in the 2012 constructor standings. Teammate Leal is nowhere. ART ends up fifth.
2014: Palmer wins with DAMS, who were fourth in the 2013 constructor standings. Richelmi is nowhere. Meanwhile rookie Vandoorne ends up second with ART, teammate is nowhere
2015: Vandoorne wins it with ART, teammate is nowhere.
2016: Gasly and Giovinazzi clearly the best for newcomers Prema, ART back to fourth
2017: landslide for Leclerc for Prema, teammate is nowhere.

Surely how a team runs influences how a driver can perform, but still, given the differences of the winners with their teammates, and given the fact teams fall back a few spots after the winning driver leaves, it does point to the field being relatively even for drivers to show their talent.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:50 pm 
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1. Verstappen
2. Leclerc
3. Ocon
4. Sainz
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6. Giovinazzi
7. Stroll
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:57 pm 
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I find Stroll very hard to predict.

He had a dominant F3 season at the age of just 17, but right now he's being outperformed by an old Felipe Massa. People often forgot just how young he is. The kid was born in October 1998. In my opinion, he joined F1 too early. He should have gathered some experience in GP2 or F2 instead of jumping straight from F3 to F1. He could have saved himself so much ridicule and money if he just waited a few more years to gather experience.

He has shown glimpses of real talent in Baku, Monza and Singapore. IMO he can become a very good midfield driver. I can see him improve exponentially with more experience next season.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:06 pm 
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Check out Conor Daly topic on his class mate - The Champ. He brought his ultimate thesis.

http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/14435 ... m-f1-teams


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:57 pm 
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While I think he would show well if he made the jump, unless he truly has his sights set on F1 above anything else I see no reason for Newgarden to leave Indy. It's doubtful that any of the top three teams are going to come calling so at best he might be picked up by a solid mid-field team so why should he leave a top team that can bring him wins and championships in Indy to scrape for points in F1.

I could see it if Haas was to go for Rossi since he has been showing steady progression and still had a small mathematic chance at the title in the last race but he wouldn't be giving much up at this point if he made the jump. Plus he has shown decent results recently in an actual F1 car in races.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:06 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
I find Stroll very hard to predict.

He had a dominant F3 season at the age of just 17, but right now he's being outperformed by an old Felipe Massa. People often forgot just how young he is. The kid was born in October 1998. In my opinion, he joined F1 too early. He should have gathered some experience in GP2 or F2 instead of jumping straight from F3 to F1. He could have saved himself so much ridicule and money if he just waited a few more years to gather experience.

He has shown glimpses of real talent in Baku, Monza and Singapore. IMO he can become a very good midfield driver. I can see him improve exponentially with more experience next season.


He is a very interesting case, he is only going to get better and has had some good peaks this year. You are right about his age. I thought he was already 20 at the start of the year. I've gone from, "he shouldn't be there" to its "good to have him on the grid and see how his career progresses". He could easily become a good driver.

If he gets up to top 10 type level talent wise its no inconceivable for him to get into a top seat. Take Mercedes and Ferrari this year they are paying Kimi and Bottas 5-10 million per year... even those two teams would struggle to turn down Stroll paying them $50 million for the seat for the season. Plus offset the wages of the other driver, that is $55-60 and still getting a decent driver.

He is reportedly worth to Williams about $35-40 million per season with what he pays and the investment his Dad is making into the team. His Dad has spent this season alone $10 million on his mid season testing program in the 2014 car. $7 million of which was to buy two 2014 Mercedes engines.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:28 pm 
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1. Verstappen
2. Leclerc
3. Sainz
4. Ocon
5. Vandoorne
6. Wehrlein


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:57 pm 
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No Pierre Gasly?

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