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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:31 pm 
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mds wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
how exactly did verstappen have ample room?


Because he did? Look at it again, Vettel leaves plenty more than a car's width. At the time of collision, twere are two car widths.

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its ok covering off a driver if you are say half a car length ahead because you are not forcing the other driver to move with you. you can cut infront. but max had a better start and his car was overlapping vettels.


That's no problem in itself, driver in front (and with "in front" I mean the one who is ahead, even if overlap) can take the other driver to the edge of the track, as long as he leaves enough room and doesn't force the driver off track. We see this all the time, whether it be on starts or on straights to defend for overtakes.

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if max hadnt moved vettel would have swiped his front wing off and probably ended up with a puncture and/or hitting the pitwall and kimi himself.


The thing is that there was a third driver which Vettel didn't see. Couldn't see, even, with these tiny mirrors and no way to look to much more to the left behind. If Kimi hadn't been there, then Verstappen would have moved along with Vettel, Vettel would have stopped moving over when there was little more than a car's width left, and Verstappen may or may not have overtaken Vettel. But Kimi was there, Verstappen tried to back out, but to no avail sadly.

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just think what you would have said if max did what vettel did and ended up wiping out both ferraris.


Would have said the same. Look at my signature, I'm a fan of both. Awful day for me to be honest.



so do you think what vettel did was ok? even with the hindsight of what happened after and considering it was the start of a wet race and visibility is low and cars can be running 3, 4 abreast very closely and he has no way of knowing the position of all the cars around him. i think stupid doesnt really cover it.

also just thinking about the lack of a penalty for him. if the incident had happened say on the run up to les combes and not the first corner with vettel going right to defend from max, unaware that a 3rd car was overtaking max on the left, then with max overlapping he moves across and forces him into the other car, i would be confident that he (or lets say another driver) would have been penalised for causing a collision, irrespective of whether he knew if the 3rd driver was there or not. so for me he has got away with it purely because of 1. hes contending for the chamionship 2. he drives for ferrari and c. it was the first corner. if he had carried on in the race it would have been very interesting to see what would have happened.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Its not completely over because a DNF is such a points changer but yesterday was a double pointer for Hamilton, I think he expected to be 10 points behind Vettel but instead he is 28 in front. All Hamilton has to do is finish the remaining races, Its not as though the Mercedes cars are prone unreliability is it. Vettel has to be in front of Hamilton consistently and and WIN some races. How likely is that given the remaining circuits.


It will be much harder for Seb this year as there isn't a Rosberg to take points away. Bottas is a good number 2 and is not in the same league.

Actually, had Rosberg continued, I think the constructors lead would be even bigger.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:10 pm 
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Not sure I agree, on "Ferrari" circuits where Mercedes can't get away I think Vettel would beat Rosberg.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:31 pm 
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Is it the end? No, it's the beginning of Vettel playing catchup. With any luck he'll be much more calm and measured in his approach. Max was right when he said that someone fighting for the championship should not be driving without assessing the down side of any action taken.

As many have said, I too thought it was odd for Vettel to be so giddy after qually. He's a 4x WDC and should be cool as fighter pilot no? This may have led to an over exuberant frame of mind. All he needed to do was stay ahead of the Mercs to help with the WCC and ahead of Lewis for the WDC. He didn't have to win (at any cost).


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:55 pm 
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mds wrote:
lamo wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Remaining tracks Mercedes will be strong. Probably not the dominance of Monza. But enough to control the race and qualifying they have the advantage. Vettel still can win but needs luck. Like in Baku, Hamilton was cruising and the headset got loose somehow. So he had to do extra pit stop. I have never seen such thing before. Hamilton DNF will make it more interesting lol. Vettel has done amazing job so far to make it interesting. But Ferrari needs more performance otherwise I think Mercedes will finish 1-2 in WC.


I would be interesting if in the last race Mercedes were in a position that if Hamilton gave Bottas the win, then Bottas would secure 2nd in the WDC. Would they ask Lewis to move over, something tells me they would and they would probably be in the right to keep up the perfect record. 1st-2nd, four years straight, nobody has ever done that.


Actually I think Mercedes wouldn't even have ask as Hamilton would do it on his own initiative, assuming the title would already be in the bag.

Contrary to the extreme polarization that seems to be going on between the two driver camps, I've only gotten more respect for Hamilton this year. He has conducted himself perfectly.

Me too :frown:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:56 pm 
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LBET wrote:
Is it the end? No, it's the beginning of Vettel playing catchup. With any luck he'll be much more calm and measured in his approach. Max was right when he said that someone fighting for the championship should not be driving without assessing the down side of any action taken.

As many have said, I too thought it was odd for Vettel to be so giddy after qually. He's a 4x WDC and should be cool as fighter pilot no? This may have led to an over exuberant frame of mind. All he needed to do was stay ahead of the Mercs to help with the WCC and ahead of Lewis for the WDC. He didn't have to win (at any cost).


We don't know what's on Vettel's mind. But it's possible after Spa and Monza, he could have seen anything less than maximum points won't be enough.

Vettel is great. But Ferrari simply isn't fast enough overall.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:57 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
mds wrote:
lamo wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Remaining tracks Mercedes will be strong. Probably not the dominance of Monza. But enough to control the race and qualifying they have the advantage. Vettel still can win but needs luck. Like in Baku, Hamilton was cruising and the headset got loose somehow. So he had to do extra pit stop. I have never seen such thing before. Hamilton DNF will make it more interesting lol. Vettel has done amazing job so far to make it interesting. But Ferrari needs more performance otherwise I think Mercedes will finish 1-2 in WC.


I would be interesting if in the last race Mercedes were in a position that if Hamilton gave Bottas the win, then Bottas would secure 2nd in the WDC. Would they ask Lewis to move over, something tells me they would and they would probably be in the right to keep up the perfect record. 1st-2nd, four years straight, nobody has ever done that.


Actually I think Mercedes wouldn't even have ask as Hamilton would do it on his own initiative, assuming the title would already be in the bag.

Contrary to the extreme polarization that seems to be going on between the two driver camps, I've only gotten more respect for Hamilton this year. He has conducted himself perfectly.

Me too :frown:


no one has done team orders more blatantly than Ferrari. So even during Schumi's time, he would give Barrichello the win once the wdc is sealed. It's normal to do that.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:12 pm 
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I'm a Lewis fan but no way is this over.
You have 3 tracks in Malaysia , Japan and Brazil where rain is likely and can throw the race into a lottery.
You have another 3 in Mexico, USA and Brazil where overtaking is very difficult if something goes wrong in quali or you are given a grid penalty.

We also have 150 points left to play for so although it's a big swing to Lewis - you can't say it's done and dusted ....Who would have predicted That at the weekend

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:57 pm 
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lamo wrote:
moby wrote:
All this 'the title is over' stuff came about through ONE DNF. What are the odds of any front line driver completing a season without a DNF?


I don't agree, its more that Vettel is 28 points behind and has won 1 race in 8. Hamilton has won 5 of those 8 and should have won 6 of them if not for his head rest issue. Mercedes has 6 wins over that period which could be 7.

Bottas has also now out scored Vettel over the last 11 races (a period that includes them both having 1 DNF) and in the last 8 races has finished ahead of him 6-2. So even Bottas is likely to take lots of points from Vettel in the remaining 6 races and is just 23 points behind him, if these tracks suit Mercedes he could get 2nd in the WDC himself.

If Mercedes can 1-2 a race or two it makes it very hard for Vettel even if Lewis has a DNF. Ferrari need a big turn around and some luck.

In the 8 races since Monaco, Daniel Ricciardo has outscored Vettel.

My maths has it 110-106 in the Australian's favour. Same number of wins and DNFs (1 each), 4-4 in terms of who has finished ahead, with Ricciardo scoring 5 podiums to Vettel's 4.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:14 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
lamo wrote:
moby wrote:
All this 'the title is over' stuff came about through ONE DNF. What are the odds of any front line driver completing a season without a DNF?


I don't agree, its more that Vettel is 28 points behind and has won 1 race in 8. Hamilton has won 5 of those 8 and should have won 6 of them if not for his head rest issue. Mercedes has 6 wins over that period which could be 7.

Bottas has also now out scored Vettel over the last 11 races (a period that includes them both having 1 DNF) and in the last 8 races has finished ahead of him 6-2. So even Bottas is likely to take lots of points from Vettel in the remaining 6 races and is just 23 points behind him, if these tracks suit Mercedes he could get 2nd in the WDC himself.

If Mercedes can 1-2 a race or two it makes it very hard for Vettel even if Lewis has a DNF. Ferrari need a big turn around and some luck.

In the 8 races since Monaco, Daniel Ricciardo has outscored Vettel.

My maths has it 110-106 in the Australian's favour. Same number of wins and DNFs (1 each), 4-4 in terms of who has finished ahead, with Ricciardo scoring 5 podiums to Vettel's 4.


Could be a coincidence but Baku really seems to have effected Vettel. He was in superb form up to that point but seems to have gone off the boil since then. Kimi has gotten closer to him as well. Hamilton on the other hand I felt wasn't his usual self at the start of the season but since Baku has come into his own. He is driving the best I think I've seen him at the moment.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:15 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
lamo wrote:
moby wrote:
All this 'the title is over' stuff came about through ONE DNF. What are the odds of any front line driver completing a season without a DNF?


I don't agree, its more that Vettel is 28 points behind and has won 1 race in 8. Hamilton has won 5 of those 8 and should have won 6 of them if not for his head rest issue. Mercedes has 6 wins over that period which could be 7.

Bottas has also now out scored Vettel over the last 11 races (a period that includes them both having 1 DNF) and in the last 8 races has finished ahead of him 6-2. So even Bottas is likely to take lots of points from Vettel in the remaining 6 races and is just 23 points behind him, if these tracks suit Mercedes he could get 2nd in the WDC himself.

If Mercedes can 1-2 a race or two it makes it very hard for Vettel even if Lewis has a DNF. Ferrari need a big turn around and some luck.

In the 8 races since Monaco, Daniel Ricciardo has outscored Vettel.

My maths has it 110-106 in the Australian's favour. Same number of wins and DNFs (1 each), 4-4 in terms of who has finished ahead, with Ricciardo scoring 5 podiums to Vettel's 4.


... and in an inferiour car!


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:41 pm 
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Ferrari haven't introduced their fourth engine yet, have they? While Mercedes have.

That's pretty much the last card Ferrari have up their sleave. If their new engine doesn't close the gap to Mercedes, we can hand the WDC to Hamilton there and then.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:53 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari haven't introduced their fourth engine yet, have they? While Mercedes have.

That's pretty much the last card Ferrari have up their sleave. If their new engine doesn't close the gap to Mercedes, we can hand the WDC to Hamilton there and then.

Isn't Vettel in danger of taking a penalty on account of the number of turbo chargers he's used?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:03 am 
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No. It's too early to call the title. This season has seen Ferrari come back over and over again. I will be keen to see how things develop in Malaysia, there are at least 4-5 corners where I think the Ferraris will have the edge because of their superior traction. I would not be shocked if Ferrari wins Malaysia. Well they sort of have to win it to keep their hopes alive really.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:53 am 
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It's not over but it has given a big opportunity to Hamilton.

Vettel wasn't thinking of the title when he moved over on Verstappen. He was thinking of being first through turn 1.

Anything could happen in the next few races. Hamilton could have an engine failure, a crash or any number of possibilities.

Vettel really needs to screw his head back on and start to collect points. He needs to maximise every chance between now and the end of the season.

Before Monaco last year, Rosberg lead Hamilton by 43 points. Just 4 races later that was down to 1 point. Things can change quickly.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:27 am 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
so do you think what vettel did was ok? even with the hindsight of what happened after and considering it was the start of a wet race and visibility is low and cars can be running 3, 4 abreast very closely and he has no way of knowing the position of all the cars around him. i think stupid doesnt really cover it.


Of course it was OK. It's a standard move in any kind of racing, we've seen it literally hundreds of times not just in F1 but everywhere. Vettel can veer right, as long as he leaves space for Verstappen, which he did. But there were two cars, not one, and that is the thing.

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also just thinking about the lack of a penalty for him. if the incident had happened say on the run up to les combes and not the first corner with vettel going right to defend from max, unaware that a 3rd car was overtaking max on the left, then with max overlapping he moves across and forces him into the other car, i would be confident that he (or lets say another driver) would have been penalised for causing a collision, irrespective of whether he knew if the 3rd driver was there or not. so for me he has got away with it purely because of 1. hes contending for the chamionship 2. he drives for ferrari and c. it was the first corner. if he had carried on in the race it would have been very interesting to see what would have happened.


I'm sorry but I'm not going to start theorizing about what would have happened if something else would have happened that is not really the same as this real thing that happened.

Pretty sure what happened yesterday would always have been judged a racing incident because that was exactly what it was.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:27 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari haven't introduced their fourth engine yet, have they? While Mercedes have.

That's pretty much the last card Ferrari have up their sleave. If their new engine doesn't close the gap to Mercedes, we can hand the WDC to Hamilton there and then.


When they do introduce it, it'll already be at a disadvantage due to the tightened oil burning restrictions.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:45 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
lamo wrote:
moby wrote:
All this 'the title is over' stuff came about through ONE DNF. What are the odds of any front line driver completing a season without a DNF?


I don't agree, its more that Vettel is 28 points behind and has won 1 race in 8. Hamilton has won 5 of those 8 and should have won 6 of them if not for his head rest issue. Mercedes has 6 wins over that period which could be 7.

Bottas has also now out scored Vettel over the last 11 races (a period that includes them both having 1 DNF) and in the last 8 races has finished ahead of him 6-2. So even Bottas is likely to take lots of points from Vettel in the remaining 6 races and is just 23 points behind him, if these tracks suit Mercedes he could get 2nd in the WDC himself.

If Mercedes can 1-2 a race or two it makes it very hard for Vettel even if Lewis has a DNF. Ferrari need a big turn around and some luck.

In the 8 races since Monaco, Daniel Ricciardo has outscored Vettel.

My maths has it 110-106 in the Australian's favour. Same number of wins and DNFs (1 each), 4-4 in terms of who has finished ahead, with Ricciardo scoring 5 podiums to Vettel's 4.


... and in an inferiour car!


Yup, and this is exactly my point. It's all good and well people saying that Lewis is due some unreliability, but the gap Lewis has now means if he wins four of the remaining six races, he can afford to have two races where he doesn't score a point and still be crowned WDC. And that relies on Vettel winning the two races where Lewis doesn't score and finishes second in the four where Lewis wins, which based on how he compares with both Bottas and Ricciardo is very far from being a certainty.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:05 am 
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kleefton wrote:
No. It's too early to call the title. This season has seen Ferrari come back over and over again. I will be keen to see how things develop in Malaysia, there are at least 4-5 corners where I think the Ferraris will have the edge because of their superior traction. I would not be shocked if Ferrari wins Malaysia. Well they sort of have to win it to keep their hopes alive really.


Ferrari will be even slower in Malaysia


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:19 am 
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mds wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
so do you think what vettel did was ok? even with the hindsight of what happened after and considering it was the start of a wet race and visibility is low and cars can be running 3, 4 abreast very closely and he has no way of knowing the position of all the cars around him. i think stupid doesnt really cover it.


Of course it was OK. It's a standard move in any kind of racing, we've seen it literally hundreds of times not just in F1 but everywhere. Vettel can veer right, as long as he leaves space for Verstappen, which he did. But there were two cars, not one, and that is the thing.

Quote:
also just thinking about the lack of a penalty for him. if the incident had happened say on the run up to les combes and not the first corner with vettel going right to defend from max, unaware that a 3rd car was overtaking max on the left, then with max overlapping he moves across and forces him into the other car, i would be confident that he (or lets say another driver) would have been penalised for causing a collision, irrespective of whether he knew if the 3rd driver was there or not. so for me he has got away with it purely because of 1. hes contending for the chamionship 2. he drives for ferrari and c. it was the first corner. if he had carried on in the race it would have been very interesting to see what would have happened.


I'm sorry but I'm not going to start theorizing about what would have happened if something else would have happened that is not really the same as this real thing that happened.

Pretty sure what happened yesterday would always have been judged a racing incident because that was exactly what it was.


i personally dont think what he did was a standard move. it was too aggressive for that. but yes of course drivers do similar moves all the time, but without causing a collision. if they do cause a collision they generally get penalised.

again you state he gave max enough room. i dont understand how max had enough room. he was forced into another driver. the very fact that kimi was there means he didnt give him enough room. of course vettel didnt know kimi was there but that is the risk with that type of manouver. you cant just assume the track is empty in areas you cant see, especially at the start. assumption is the mother of all f*** ups. he clearly let his hot head get the better of him again. max has been critical of him and they have clashed on track. thats why he was so aggressive in my book. he wouldnt have chopped across like that with kimi and i would guess not with ric, ham, bot, alo.

another hypothetical, which i know you love, is if you swap max or kimi for hamilton. would vettel have got a post race penalty. i would say guaranteed.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:00 am 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
i personally dont think what he did was a standard move. it was too aggressive for that. but yes of course drivers do similar moves all the time, but without causing a collision. if they do cause a collision they generally get penalised.


"Generally"... OK: do you even have one comparable example where a penalty was given?

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again you state he gave max enough room.


Because he did, from his POV. He is perfectly entitled to make that move, as long as he leaves a car's width of track space for the car he is trying to cover. He did that.

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max has been critical of him and they have clashed on track. thats why he was so aggressive in my book. he wouldnt have chopped across like that with kimi and i would guess not with ric, ham, bot, alo.


I'm 100% he would have made that move with anyone, because I simply don't believe it being Max was decisive in him doing it. More the idea that he knew Singapore was the best chance to take the win and put some space between him and Hamilton in the WDC. And getting caught up behind an RBR would not be an ideal situation to be in.

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another hypothetical, which i know you love, is if you swap max or kimi for hamilton. would vettel have got a post race penalty. i would say guaranteed.


Well, as above: I'd like to see a precedent. But I believe not.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:03 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari haven't introduced their fourth engine yet, have they? While Mercedes have.

That's pretty much the last card Ferrari have up their sleave. If their new engine doesn't close the gap to Mercedes, we can hand the WDC to Hamilton there and then.


That is there final joker.

There was some discussion about Mercedes engine use. They did the Singapore GP on race engine 2, an old engine first introduced in Spain.

Mercedes have engine 3 and 4 that have both done 2 races each now. Each engine basically needs to do 5 weekends each.

Mercedes engines failures have also typically occurred during the first race it was introduced or when they stretch them out too far. For example Bottas did Spain on engine 1 and it blew when at 95-100% of its life, but engine 2 was supposed to be in by that point but removed as a pre-caution. Engine 1 takes the biggest beating as it has to do all practice sessions and race until 2 is introduced and it can't be switched in and out to balance is usage over high strain and low strain tracks.

I believe Hamilton had engine 1 back in for Monaco for example because it was a low strain race and that was engine ones 5th race for him. Then retired from race use to do practise sessions.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:47 pm 
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Nope. Just shortened the odds for Hamilton and lengthened them for everyone else.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:33 pm 
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When Hamilton can afford to finish every race in second place, I'd be more willing to admit it might be over for Vettel. Until then, Seb is a couple of wins and a Lewis DNF away from leading the WDC again.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:41 am 
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Game, set and match to hamilton. Most of the tracks remaining suit mercedes, going to take multiple DNF's from hamilton.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Not over but it is of course now not looking good.Realistically it will need Lewis to have misfortune. And that could equally happen to Seb or anyone else as well. There was also a radiator damage and likely other serious damage for Seb's engine or gearbox as well which could impact the next race. We will have to wait and see about that one. It's a race Seb will have to win though if he is to start striking back. Then added to his dilemma is of course the obvious pace and performance of Mercedes, and Lewis form. Even in Singapore race conditions wet and dry they surprised a few, not least redbull.

The irony is that Seb has brought all this difficulty on himself. It would be worse but he has had the rub of the green this season. I've heard some excusing, but what he did was over aggressive and very risky. That has been covered extensively already, including by many leading experts. And he had a poor start. From the same side of the grid Lewis and many others had very good starts.

It is not over, but he will need to be perfect, and very lucky


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:03 pm 
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Vettels engine survived and will be fine to use again.

Ferrari will introduce engine number 4 in Sepang so its time to see if this is a game changer or not. Is Malaysia a power circuit? I wonder if Mercedes will put in engine 3 or its most powerful number 4.

If Ferrari used engine 2 and 3 for all remaining friday practice sessions they could probably do the last 6 races on engine 4.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:30 pm 
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justmoi wrote:
Not over but it is of course now not looking good.Realistically it will need Lewis to have misfortune. And that could equally happen to Seb or anyone else as well. There was also a radiator damage and likely other serious damage for Seb's engine or gearbox as well which could impact the next race. We will have to wait and see about that one. It's a race Seb will have to win though if he is to start striking back. Then added to his dilemma is of course the obvious pace and performance of Mercedes, and Lewis form. Even in Singapore race conditions wet and dry they surprised a few, not least redbull.

The irony is that Seb has brought all this difficulty on himself. It would be worse but he has had the rub of the green this season. I've heard some excusing, but what he did was over aggressive and very risky. That has been covered extensively already, including by many leading experts. And he had a poor start. From the same side of the grid Lewis and many others had very good starts.

It is not over, but he will need to be perfect, and very lucky


Vettel can put in a new gearbox with no penalty.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:32 pm 
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It's not over until it's over. We could have penalties, engine failure, wet race, driver collisions, tyre punctures, safety car, tyre temperature problems allsorts.

Ferrari might even have an advantage at the hot races.

Advantage Lewis. Championship is his to lose but he has not won it yet, could have a terrible run of luck and it could swing back to Vettel.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:46 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
After all that happened yesterday, the net result is that Lewis Hamilton is now 28 points clear of Vettel in the standings. There isn't a track remaining that is considered to be a weak one for Mercedes, and even if there was it wouldn't be to the extent that Singapore was. Lewis is in a position where he just needs to win four of the six remaining races and he'll be celebrating his fourth WDC no matter what else happens.

Obviously Seb can still win the WDC, but realistically is it now game over for his chances of winning the title this year?


What's the possibility that:

Lewis will make a mistake during qualifying and end up missing out on Q3.
Lewis making a mistake resulting in a crash.
Some one else makes a mistake resulting in a crash and taking Lewis out.
Lewis gets penalties for his mistakes or reliability.
A single DNF and even if Seb doesn't win - it closes the gap.

Calling the end of the title race is silly. Same ones who said it was Sebs after race 4. Even if it's the last race and Seb must win and Lewis needs a DNF - it's still not impossible. Last season people started to think it was Lewis's when he started to bring the wins etc and we know how that panned out. A single engine blow out put a huge dent in his title.

It's not over.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:01 am 
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As soon as FIA stopped the oil burning in Ferrari and couldn't in Merc it was game over.

Both titles are destined to a Merc driver, just as the last 3 years before.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:17 am 
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AnRs wrote:
As soon as FIA stopped the oil burning in Ferrari and couldn't in Merc it was game over.
This thought has been annoying me for a while now. I fear you are right.

AnRs wrote:
Both titles are destined to a Merc driver, just as the last 3 years before.
Hamilton isn't a constructor... ;-)

Is this it for the title battle? No, of course not. Nothing is written, nothing is done.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:59 am 
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lamo wrote:
Vettels engine survived and will be fine to use again.



Only problem is that it torque steers left!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:20 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
As soon as FIA stopped the oil burning in Ferrari and couldn't in Merc it was game over.

Both titles are destined to a Merc driver, just as the last 3 years before.


There is a difference between finding a loophole and breaking the rules. I'm sure Ferrari had to change there floor aswell. Only one team has been breaking the rules.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:38 pm 
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It's probably over unless something spectacular happens. I just fear Verstappen will feel bad for (partly) causing the crash, that he will try to take out Hamilton to even things out.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:46 pm 
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Ocon wrote:
It's probably over unless something spectacular happens. I just fear Verstappen will feel bad for (partly) causing the crash, that he will try to take out Hamilton to even things out.


Did you see his comments after the race? He said he was GLAD that both Ferraris crashed out of the race.

I highly doubt he feels bad at all from whatever happened during that turn one incident.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Ocon wrote:
It's probably over unless something spectacular happens. I just fear Verstappen will feel bad for (partly) causing the crash, that he will try to take out Hamilton to even things out.


Did you see his comments after the race? He said he was GLAD that both Ferraris crashed out of the race.

I highly doubt he feels bad at all from whatever happened during that turn one incident.


If anything I would put more money on another Verstappen - Vettel contact. They have collided 3 times this year already and in Silverstone they had a 3-4 lap battle of forcing each other off. No love loss between these two.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:29 pm 
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Well Kimi won his title from a far less likely position than Vettel finds himself in now... effectively 49 points behind with two races to go.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:51 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Ocon wrote:
It's probably over unless something spectacular happens. I just fear Verstappen will feel bad for (partly) causing the crash, that he will try to take out Hamilton to even things out.


Did you see his comments after the race? He said he was GLAD that both Ferraris crashed out of the race.

I highly doubt he feels bad at all from whatever happened during that turn one incident.

Maybe not, but as long as Verstappen is anywhere near the front at the start, there's a risk he could take anyone out. Vettel seems pretty desperate too, and I think Hamilton was lucky not to start near the front last race.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:26 pm 
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Ocon wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Ocon wrote:
It's probably over unless something spectacular happens. I just fear Verstappen will feel bad for (partly) causing the crash, that he will try to take out Hamilton to even things out.


Did you see his comments after the race? He said he was GLAD that both Ferraris crashed out of the race.

I highly doubt he feels bad at all from whatever happened during that turn one incident.

Maybe not, but as long as Verstappen is anywhere near the front at the start, there's a risk he could take anyone out. Vettel seems pretty desperate too, and I think Hamilton was lucky not to start near the front last race.

Agreed on that, Max doesn't give a damn whether the person he is racing is a title contender, he will race hard with Hamilton or Vettel if he gets the chance to, he could still have a big impact on the championship.


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