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 Post subject: Only nr. 1 and 2 matter
PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:45 pm 
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Vettel takes out half the field, but because he ruins his own championship no further action is taken. If it was Verstappen pulling to the left and taking out 2 Ferrari's, it would be raining penalties.

The outcome or consequences of penalizing someone shouldn't matter. I can only feel for Verstappen who's race was ruined. But hey, everyone but LH and SV is collateral right...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:51 pm 
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You're sounding a bit bitter here.

Vettel didn't take everyone out in some kind of Banzai move, which would have warranted a penalty. Him moving over on Max didn't cause the accident. It was that plus Kimi storming up the inside that did it. It's likely Seb didn't see or expect Kimi to be there. Drivers sweep across the track at the start to protect their position all the time. These things happen in the blink of an eye and there's not an awful lot of time to process all the info. It wasn't a reckless move, it was just unlucky. I do agree that stewards do take into account Championship positions when determining penalties, and they shouldn't, but I disagree it's applicable in this case


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:25 pm 
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He was overly aggressive. It was a silly move. But it was also a racing incident.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:40 pm 
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First off, IMO it was a racing incident, it took three to make this accident happen. No penalty was appropriate.

Secondly, I do agree that Formula One marinates in unsavory politics and that not all penalties receive equal treatment.

I suggest the OP saves his cynicism for a time when it can be made to stick.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:03 pm 
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Come on. We all know what happened if it were Max making that move. Following that line, Vettel should have gotten a penalty.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:06 pm 
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This is firmly filed in the "racing incident" category. Vettel was more at fault than the other two but he didn't do anything crazy. Obviously he didn't allow for the possibility that another car could get up the inside of Max but I don't think a hefty penalty or reprimand is called for here.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:51 pm 
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Not debating today's incident, but making a 'Max would've been crucified for that move' argument is a bit absurd.

Max has probably gotten away with more dangerous driving than anyone else on the grid in the last year or so.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:06 pm 
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F1 is trying to get away from dishing out penalties for every incident, let's keep it going that way

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:18 pm 
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chetan_rao wrote:
Not debating today's incident, but making a 'Max would've been crucified for that move' argument is a bit absurd.

Max has probably gotten away with more dangerous driving than anyone else on the grid in the last year or so.

Thanks for being the one to point that out. I thought maybe I was having a brain-fade moment. The whole premise of this thread seems totally absurd considering the amount of stuff Max has done while avoiding penalties.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:29 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
Not debating today's incident, but making a 'Max would've been crucified for that move' argument is a bit absurd.

Max has probably gotten away with more dangerous driving than anyone else on the grid in the last year or so.

Thanks for being the one to point that out. I thought maybe I was having a brain-fade moment. The whole premise of this thread seems totally absurd considering the amount of stuff Max has done while avoiding penalties.

:thumbup:

What I was going to say as well. No Max fan should ever bitch about people avoiding penalties for dangerous driving after what he get away with in 2016.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:25 pm 
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Hamilton would've done the same as Vettel ( Swept across the front ). Racing incident.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:10 pm 
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Vettel's fault (mostly), but definitely not worthy of a penalty.

Rain + night + standing start was alway going to equal tears and drama somewhere down the grid.

On a side note, I'm not on board with the modern way of handing out penalties Willy-nilly.

I miss the old days when drivers would sort it out themselves,.... by punching each other in the helmet. ;-)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=8JogHiSR5P4

Cheers,
Noel


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Knuppel1983 wrote:
Vettel takes out half the field


humm, Is this new "Goals 2000" math or what???? 'cus "half" of a 20 car field is 10 cars in the 1960's math I was taught........


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
First off, IMO it was a racing incident, it took three to make this accident happen. No penalty was appropriate.

Secondly, I do agree that Formula One marinates in unsavory politics and that not all penalties receive equal treatment.

I suggest the OP saves his cynicism for a time when it can be made to stick.

I disagree.

The entire purpose for this exercise is to get to the front and both Verstappen and Raikkonen were doing that. The rules also clearly stipulate that any driver needs to leave room for any car that is significantly alongside and in this case Verstappen was doing so until Vettel decided to dart left to prevent anyone from challenging the inside line. His problem was that he thought he had a great start and didn't anticipate Raikkonen getting a superb start and therefore didn't take the turn to allow that.

And while it was unfortunate, a top driver needs to be more aware of everything around him, especially during starts. He was first and could have finished in a top 3 position but his haste saw him enjoy a big doughnut. I feel the OP is 100% correct in that had Verstappen taken the same actions as Vettel he would have been penalized handsomely for the next race and points taken off his super license.

Once again the dinosaur committee rears it's head in yet another inconsistent ruling. In 2010 Grosjean misjudged his braking point terribly but was not intending on intimidating anyone, but it nevertheless resulted in a collision with several cars and he was suspended for the following race. Here Vettel's move was full of intent to intimidate anyone on the inside into lifting or braking because he was not allowing anyone to shoot down the inside and it resulted in a crash that took out 3 other guys, yet no penalty??!? Hell, we've seen far less significant clashes between drivers way back, outside the points receive penalties fer cryin' out loud.

Forgive me, but I can't think of any way he could have escaped being penalized in some capacity, and taking himself out of the race is not a penalty because he retired due to his own actions.

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