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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:40 am 
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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13186 ... le-sponsor

That will be a very long team name, presumably something like Aston Martin Red Bull Racing Tag Heuer.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:05 am 
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Isn't tag heuer the engine name rights? Presumably that will go if Aston come on board.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:17 am 
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I dunno, it's one thing for a Renault to be rebranded TAG Heuer, another to be branded Aston Martin... surely? Personally I think we should stop all this stupidity and call the engine the name of whoever built it.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:45 am 
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Possibly the precursor to Red Bull eventually stepping back and Aston taking over, something that has been speculated about a lot recently.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:04 am 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Possibly the precursor to Red Bull eventually stepping back and Aston taking over, something that has been speculated about a lot recently.


Yeah that sounds like the likely outcome of it. I guess it's also possible they team up in a works like deal with the new engine regs with aston supplying the engine.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:22 am 
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Agree with the above.

Mercedes and Renault are trying their best (albeit unintentionally) to scupper them from entering by wanting to keep the MGU-H in the next regs though so that might put the kibosh on any future deeper hook-up or buyout.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:29 am 
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rivf1 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Possibly the precursor to Red Bull eventually stepping back and Aston taking over, something that has been speculated about a lot recently.


Yeah that sounds like the likely outcome of it. I guess it's also possible they team up in a works like deal with the new engine regs with aston supplying the engine.


But they mention an 'independent' engine? or would that only be independent of the other engines?

If it was a true independent engine there would be no factory Aston Martin team.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:32 am 
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moby wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Possibly the precursor to Red Bull eventually stepping back and Aston taking over, something that has been speculated about a lot recently.


Yeah that sounds like the likely outcome of it. I guess it's also possible they team up in a works like deal with the new engine regs with aston supplying the engine.


But they mention an 'independent' engine? or would that only be independent of the other engines?

If it was a true independent engine there would be no factory Aston Martin team.


I think the idea behind that is re-badging the 'independent engine' to whatever the teams sponsorship's dictate, much like RB have done with TAG right now. Been a few years now, but I can recall Mechachrome/Playlife all being used instead of Renault in the late 90s.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:33 am 
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moby wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Possibly the precursor to Red Bull eventually stepping back and Aston taking over, something that has been speculated about a lot recently.


Yeah that sounds like the likely outcome of it. I guess it's also possible they team up in a works like deal with the new engine regs with aston supplying the engine.


But they mention an 'independent' engine? or would that only be independent of the other engines?

If it was a true independent engine there would be no factory Aston Martin team.


Yeah i guess who really knows, most likely trying to keep their options open and seeing what happens with the new engine regs.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:53 am 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
I think the idea behind that is re-badging the 'independent engine' to whatever the teams sponsorship's dictate, much like RB have done with TAG right now. Been a few years now, but I can recall Mechachrome/Playlife all being used instead of Renault in the late 90s.


Wasn't that just because they were old, under powered engines and Renault didn't particularly want to be associated with their performance?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Hülk :(


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:39 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
moby wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Possibly the precursor to Red Bull eventually stepping back and Aston taking over, something that has been speculated about a lot recently.


Yeah that sounds like the likely outcome of it. I guess it's also possible they team up in a works like deal with the new engine regs with aston supplying the engine.


But they mention an 'independent' engine? or would that only be independent of the other engines?

If it was a true independent engine there would be no factory Aston Martin team.


I think the idea behind that is re-badging the 'independent engine' to whatever the teams sponsorship's dictate, much like RB have done with TAG right now. Been a few years now, but I can recall Mechachrome/Playlife all being used instead of Renault in the late 90s.

Renault stopped supplying engines after the 1997 season.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:04 pm 
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RB along with Aston Martin are making a hyper car. But this could mean Aston Martin might consider to join F1 with new engine rules. No wonder Renault are not interested in renewing RBR contract anymore. I think people new to F1 probably won't even know they are using Renault engine lol

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:04 pm 
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What we are witnessing are rumors and speculation resulting from what may come to pass in 2021 with the new regulations.

Under the Liberty umbrella, Formula One has become a ray of hope for those desiring to step up to international prestige and prominence. This is going on within Porsche, they are keeping their options open and taking a hard look at the possibility to become another Formula One engine supplier.

Red Bull and Aston Martin have quickly formed a very friendly relationship with their "Innovation Partnership". Because of that, both parties are open to exploring other projects where they may mutually benefit from this partnership. And the presence and comments from Aston Martin CEO Andy Palmer have only fed more fuel to the bonfire of speculation.

Personally my concern is that any involvement in Formula One may cripple Aston Martin's other racing projects, namely the WEC. I am a huge fan of that team, and do not want to see them withdraw from the WEC.

Red Bull will always have their logo cover most of the car's bodywork, that will never change. But I do expect (eventually) the Aston Martin name to be displayed on the rear wing and at other locations, just like Infiniti was treated.

In the pre-race show before the Singapore GP, Martin Brundle and Ricciardo got together and drove around in a car. And that car was an Aston Martin with very prominent "Red Bull" plastered on it.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:06 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
What we are witnessing are rumors and speculation resulting from what may come to pass in 2021 with the new regulations.

Under the Liberty umbrella, Formula One has become a ray of hope for those desiring to step up to international prestige and prominence. This is going on within Porsche, they are keeping their options open and taking a hard look at the possibility to become another Formula One engine supplier.

Red Bull and Aston Martin have quickly formed a very friendly relationship with their "Innovation Partnership". Because of that, both parties are open to exploring other projects where they may mutually benefit from this partnership. And the presence and comments from Aston Martin CEO Andy Palmer have only fed more fuel to the bonfire of speculation.

Personally my concern is that any involvement in Formula One may cripple Aston Martin's other racing projects, namely the WEC. I am a huge fan of that team, and do not want to see them withdraw from the WEC.

Red Bull will always have their logo cover most of the car's bodywork, that will never change. But I do expect (eventually) the Aston Martin name to be displayed on the rear wing and at other locations, just like Infiniti was treated.

In the pre-race show before the Singapore GP, Martin Brundle and Ricciardo got together and drove around in a car. And that car was an Aston Martin with very prominent "Red Bull" plastered on it.





This broaches another topic that was talked about but seems to have gone quiet, that of having similarity between the engines in both series.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Aston Martin used to have Mercedes connections. I wonder if there could be scope for Red Bull to run 1 year old Mercedes engines badged as Aston Martin for 2019-2020, with the option to modify and develop, before Aston Martin build their own units for the new regulations?

If Honda don't get their act together, 1 year old Merc engines could prove a better bet anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:21 pm 
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It's a huge jump from the speculation we're seeing at the moment but if Aston Martin purchased the Red Bull team sometime next year, presumably that would mean they'd only be giving their seats to guys from Toro Rosso. Maybe Alonso ends up driving for the Aston Martin F1 team in 2019...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:12 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
It's a huge jump from the speculation we're seeing at the moment but if Aston Martin purchased the Red Bull team sometime next year, presumably that would mean they'd only be giving their seats to guys from Toro Rosso. Maybe Alonso ends up driving for the Aston Martin F1 team in 2019...


He would fit their profile well as he is world known. The only thing is would Alonso go to a team he does not think can win him a championship, even if they give him a LeMans car.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:29 pm 
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Would Honda want their engines rebranded? Would Aston Martin want their name on a Honda engine? Seems a bit of an oddity for a car maker to buy title sponsorship when they can't supply an engine... I get that they 'might' build one for 2021, but in the meantime it's all a bit strange isn't it?

Then again, i suppose you had Lotus running the Renault engine not too long ago...

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:58 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
Would Honda want their engines rebranded? Would Aston Martin want their name on a Honda engine? Seems a bit of an oddity for a car maker to buy title sponsorship when they can't supply an engine... I get that they 'might' build one for 2021, but in the meantime it's all a bit strange isn't it?

Then again, i suppose you had Lotus running the Renault engine not too long ago...


Did they not also use a Renault engine in the Europa?

(and a Hoover engine in the Lotus designed C5 :lol: but we will not mention that)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:47 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
I think the idea behind that is re-badging the 'independent engine' to whatever the teams sponsorship's dictate, much like RB have done with TAG right now. Been a few years now, but I can recall Mechachrome/Playlife all being used instead of Renault in the late 90s.


Wasn't that just because they were old, under powered engines and Renault didn't particularly want to be associated with their performance?

No. The reason was that Red bull went too far in publicly singling out the Renault PU exclusively as to why their performance was lacking. It became so frequent and to such a disrespectful degree that Renault had enough and they terminated the contract with Red Bull and Red Bull were left scrambling TRYING to find an engine partner but since they aired their business so sensationally publicly, no one wanted to supply them. Thus Bernie hashed out a deal that saw them continue with a supply of Renault units but were rebadged as Tag Heuer, which is retarded since Tag is a manufacturer of time pieces.

Bob Varsha stated during the race yesterday that RBR would only run Renault units until the end of this season.
So they're either going to run Honda along with their Jr. Team or maybe re-re-badged Aston Martin junk.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:40 am 
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The team will be called Aston Martin Red Bull Racing in 2018:
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/09/25/aston-martin-becomes-red-bull-title-sponsor-2018/

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:44 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
I think the idea behind that is re-badging the 'independent engine' to whatever the teams sponsorship's dictate, much like RB have done with TAG right now. Been a few years now, but I can recall Mechachrome/Playlife all being used instead of Renault in the late 90s.


Wasn't that just because they were old, under powered engines and Renault didn't particularly want to be associated with their performance?

No. The reason was that Red bull went too far in publicly singling out the Renault PU exclusively as to why their performance was lacking. It became so frequent and to such a disrespectful degree that Renault had enough and they terminated the contract with Red Bull and Red Bull were left scrambling TRYING to find an engine partner but since they aired their business so sensationally publicly, no one wanted to supply them. Thus Bernie hashed out a deal that saw them continue with a supply of Renault units but were rebadged as Tag Heuer, which is retarded since Tag is a manufacturer of time pieces.

Bob Varsha stated during the race yesterday that RBR would only run Renault units until the end of this season.
So they're either going to run Honda along with their Jr. Team or maybe re-re-badged Aston Martin junk.


Did they really??? I thought it was until the end of next year?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:07 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
I think the idea behind that is re-badging the 'independent engine' to whatever the teams sponsorship's dictate, much like RB have done with TAG right now. Been a few years now, but I can recall Mechachrome/Playlife all being used instead of Renault in the late 90s.


Wasn't that just because they were old, under powered engines and Renault didn't particularly want to be associated with their performance?

No. The reason was that Red bull went too far in publicly singling out the Renault PU exclusively as to why their performance was lacking. It became so frequent and to such a disrespectful degree that Renault had enough and they terminated the contract with Red Bull and Red Bull were left scrambling TRYING to find an engine partner but since they aired their business so sensationally publicly, no one wanted to supply them. Thus Bernie hashed out a deal that saw them continue with a supply of Renault units but were rebadged as Tag Heuer, which is retarded since Tag is a manufacturer of time pieces.

Bob Varsha stated during the race yesterday that RBR would only run Renault units until the end of this season.
So they're either going to run Honda along with their Jr. Team or maybe re-re-badged Aston Martin junk.


Did they really??? I thought it was until the end of next year?


Its too late for a redbull honda switch in 2018. Varsha must have meant the end of next year.
An aston martin Redbull running honda power seems far fetched to me, especially if honda continue to struggle. Redbull probably have a secret pu option for 2019.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:37 pm 
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Horner said the new engine 'would be related to a name they already have a tie into' (my wording of what he said, not verbatim )
What did occur to me was the name Infinity. The Renault Nissan tie in may hold some wriggle room for them to re badge or maybe Renault F1 were testing and developing more than one engine and the other 'stream' looked promising.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:17 pm 
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With Aston Martin having a technical partnership with Mercedes...

A Merc engine in an RB chassis is a mouthwatering concept.

I know Toto would be against it, but maybe there’s more going on behind the scenes.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:21 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
ALESI wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
I think the idea behind that is re-badging the 'independent engine' to whatever the teams sponsorship's dictate, much like RB have done with TAG right now. Been a few years now, but I can recall Mechachrome/Playlife all being used instead of Renault in the late 90s.


Wasn't that just because they were old, under powered engines and Renault didn't particularly want to be associated with their performance?

No. The reason was that Red bull went too far in publicly singling out the Renault PU exclusively as to why their performance was lacking. It became so frequent and to such a disrespectful degree that Renault had enough and they terminated the contract with Red Bull and Red Bull were left scrambling TRYING to find an engine partner but since they aired their business so sensationally publicly, no one wanted to supply them. Thus Bernie hashed out a deal that saw them continue with a supply of Renault units but were rebadged as Tag Heuer, which is retarded since Tag is a manufacturer of time pieces.

Bob Varsha stated during the race yesterday that RBR would only run Renault units until the end of this season.
So they're either going to run Honda along with their Jr. Team or maybe re-re-badged Aston Martin junk.


Did they really??? I thought it was until the end of next year?


Its too late for a redbull honda switch in 2018. Varsha must have meant the end of next year.
An aston martin Redbull running honda power seems far fetched to me, especially if honda continue to struggle. Redbull probably have a secret pu option for 2019.


yep, i heard varsha say that, and unless he has insider information that hasn't been announced, renault will be under the hood for red bull in 2018.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:47 pm 
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RBR's descent into mediocrity continues. Aston Martin would never be able to make an engine. They have neither the money, nor the engineering depth in that department.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:17 pm 
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Aston Martin is tied in with Dave Richards of prodrive, was he not also involved with the 'Pure' engine project?


Edit.

I just looked him up to check on this and found an interesting snippet.

Just one intriguing line that said he currently ' working with Ford to create the first hybrid Ford Transit van ' ???? Hmmm.

Anyone know anything about this?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Surely all car makers are going to have start investing in R&D for hybrid vehicles, including Aston Martin - only 7 years til they need them in France.. still, maybe them and Ferrari will just sell cars in the Middle East, can't seem them imposing any bans on cars using fossil fuels.

As an aside, since the bands are coming in at different times in different countries, what's to stop you buying a diesel car in the UK and just taking it to France?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:03 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
Surely all car makers are going to have start investing in R&D for hybrid vehicles, including Aston Martin - only 7 years til they need them in France.. still, maybe them and Ferrari will just sell cars in the Middle East, can't seem them imposing any bans on cars using fossil fuels.

As an aside, since the bands are coming in at different times in different countries, what's to stop you buying a diesel car in the UK and just taking it to France?


Not really. Not every manufacturer needs to make their own engine. Puny-ass Aston Martin would probably have to buy one in the open market.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:03 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
I think the idea behind that is re-badging the 'independent engine' to whatever the teams sponsorship's dictate, much like RB have done with TAG right now. Been a few years now, but I can recall Mechachrome/Playlife all being used instead of Renault in the late 90s.


Wasn't that just because they were old, under powered engines and Renault didn't particularly want to be associated with their performance?

No. The reason was that Red bull went too far in publicly singling out the Renault PU exclusively as to why their performance was lacking. It became so frequent and to such a disrespectful degree that Renault had enough and they terminated the contract with Red Bull and Red Bull were left scrambling TRYING to find an engine partner but since they aired their business so sensationally publicly, no one wanted to supply them. Thus Bernie hashed out a deal that saw them continue with a supply of Renault units but were rebadged as Tag Heuer, which is retarded since Tag is a manufacturer of time pieces.

Bob Varsha stated during the race yesterday that RBR would only run Renault units until the end of this season.
So they're either going to run Honda along with their Jr. Team or maybe re-re-badged Aston Martin junk.


Apologies, my post wasn't clear.

I was referring to Mechachrome and Playlife in 1998.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:44 pm 
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This deal surely makes finding an engine supplier easier.
Honda or Porsche will be delighted to have Aston Martin on the chassis...


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:57 pm 
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Redbull are developing their own engine in a secret location according to my sources and want to use the Renault, Aston Martin and Honda engine designs to accelerate development. First on the grid is easily worth developing an exclusive engine for Redbull.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:20 pm 
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pendulumeffect wrote:
Redbull are developing their own engine in a secret location according to my sources and want to use the Renault, Aston Martin and Honda engine designs to accelerate development. First on the grid is easily worth developing an exclusive engine for Redbull.


Aston Martin doesn't have an engine design. They don't even make engines!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:33 pm 
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Aston does have it's own engine facility in Cologne but they work very closely with AMG since they have a technical partnership with Mercedes to use the electronics and infotainment systems.

In the newest DB11 the V12 version is an in house design but built to work with the Mercedes electronics, while the V8 version is using a straight up AMG engine.

Maybe we're looking at RBR using AMG PU's rebranded as Aston Martin once the Renault deal is over and, if the specs are simple enough, an actual Aston Martin PU when the new regs come in.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:21 pm 
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Do we think Red Bull taking year old Mercedes power units as a baseline to then modify, and rebrand as 'Aston Martin' could potentially be viable?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:34 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Do we think Red Bull taking year old Mercedes power units as a baseline to then modify, and rebrand as 'Aston Martin' could potentially be viable?


I dont know that would be allowed, as I asked previously concerning the Illmore head on the Renault, and general consensus was they can not vary from the 'FIA accepted' one


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:01 pm 
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Is it just me who finds it funny that the car manufacturer will be the sponsor and the drinks company will be the constructor? I guess this was the same in the Infinity days but at least they had a link to the engine. Unlike AM...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:33 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Aston does have it's own engine facility in Cologne but they work very closely with AMG since they have a technical partnership with Mercedes to use the electronics and infotainment systems.

In the newest DB11 the V12 version is an in house design but built to work with the Mercedes electronics, while the V8 version is using a straight up AMG engine.

Maybe we're looking at RBR using AMG PU's rebranded as Aston Martin once the Renault deal is over and, if the specs are simple enough, an actual Aston Martin PU when the new regs come in.


The V12 was built in collaboration with Mercedes. It's not an "inhouse" design.


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