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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:21 am 
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mds wrote:
lamo wrote:
Still, at race 13/20 Kimi was 1 point ahead of eventual champion Vettel. Remove Alonso from the Ferrari that year, you not only remove the biggest challenger to anyone you place in the Renault, you also place a significant upgrade on Kimi - he would have won the title with 2-3 races to spare and at about 2/3 through the year have had a huge points lead in the title


I just checked this and I don't see how you come to this conclusion.

Up until Italy, removing Alonso from the results and promoting Vettel and Raikkonen when they finished behind adds 14 points for Vettel and 32 for Raikkonen. So Raikkonen is 19 points ahead at this stage, but then Vettel goes on his 4-win streak that easily overturns everything.

Over the entire course of the year, removing Alonso and promoting both Vettel and Raikkonen gives Raikkonen 41 points extra and Vettel 19. Vettel is champion with a nice round 300 points to Raikkonen's 248, with the WDC being done and dusted after the USA.


Looking at what Lamo has written I think he means to have written if you remove Alonso from Ferrari and place him into a Lotus Alonso would have won the championship easily.

It certainly possible if the gap between them was anything like 2014 showed.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:30 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
lamo wrote:
Still, at race 13/20 Kimi was 1 point ahead of eventual champion Vettel. Remove Alonso from the Ferrari that year, you not only remove the biggest challenger to anyone you place in the Renault, you also place a significant upgrade on Kimi - he would have won the title with 2-3 races to spare and at about 2/3 through the year have had a huge points lead in the title


I just checked this and I don't see how you come to this conclusion.

Up until Italy, removing Alonso from the results and promoting Vettel and Raikkonen when they finished behind adds 14 points for Vettel and 32 for Raikkonen. So Raikkonen is 19 points ahead at this stage, but then Vettel goes on his 4-win streak that easily overturns everything.

Over the entire course of the year, removing Alonso and promoting both Vettel and Raikkonen gives Raikkonen 41 points extra and Vettel 19. Vettel is champion with a nice round 300 points to Raikkonen's 248, with the WDC being done and dusted after the USA.


Looking at what Lamo has written I think he means to have written if you remove Alonso from Ferrari and place him into a Lotus Alonso would have won the championship easily.

It certainly possible if the gap between them was anything like 2014 showed.


I didn't get that from the wording, specifically the "anyone you place in the Renault" part. Also by saying "placing an upgrade on Kimi" I thought that referred to Kimi himself getting more points because another one driving the Ferrari would not have wedged himself in between Kimi and Vettel so often.

I can be wrong of course. lamo will no doubt enlighten us :)

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:51 am 
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Hmm....how about "these guys are far from the worlds best drivers, just the best of the very select, amazingly small compared to the world population, group who get the chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:33 am 
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Not sure if I should post here. I'm trying to be less toxic and this is an invitation to that but here it is.

Vettel is overrated and it's mostly the car. When has he been that impressive when he hasn't had one of the best or the best car?
Alonso, Hamilton and Ricciardo has put cars higher than they should be but Vettel has never done that. (Monza 2008 was a freakevent and one of the few with a wet weather setup).
When Vettel has poor cars, he is really poor. When he has a top car he is one of the best.

My top 5:

Alonso
Hamilton
Ricciardo
Verstappen
Vettel

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:55 am 
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Zoue wrote:
-Hamilton is possibly the most overrated driver in the history of the sport. He's good, but not that good


-If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, he'd be heading for his 11th title now


Regarding these points:

I don't think Hamilton is the most overrated of all time. Overrated maybe, but not in the whole history of the sport. Having said that, I can't name who that driver would be...


As for Schumacher, I'll expand that. If he didn't retire the first time he'd probably be a 9 time winner, if he didn't retire the second time then heading for nr 11.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:19 am 
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I would rather ugly cars with safety features and an open expanse of run off area to ensure driver safety.

No one should risk injury or losing a life in the name of sport.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:50 am 
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kerneys wrote:
I would rather ugly cars with safety features and an open expanse of run off area to ensure driver safety.

No one should risk injury or losing a life in the name of sport.


But even with all the safety features and run off areas drivers are still at risk of losing life and injury. The only way to not risk injury is not to do it at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:55 am 
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- The McLaren of 2007 and 2008 where easily the best car to have, even voted car of the year both years and based on both McLaren and Ferrari data : )
- Red Bull where never as dominant as Mercedes has been, and with fever dirty tricks
- Ferrari is what every driver should want to drive for


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:10 am 
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Fernando would never have lost a championship to Nico if he had been sitting in that Mercedes instead of Hamilton. In fact, it wouldn't have even been a close battle.

Having said that, anyone who questioned whether Nico was a worthy champion now needs to STFU forever. We have seen this year that Valtteri struggles to be competitive with Hamilton during many race weekends. Nico was either beating Hamilton or right on his tail the whole time at every circuit. So the one thing we can comfortably say now without a shadow of a doubt (not that I ever doubted it) Nico Rosberg is a very worthy World Champion.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:28 am 
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After getting beat by Ricciardo, Vettel will ensure going forward who his teammate might be, already we hear rumours of vetoes against both Alonso and Hamilton.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:46 am 
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Jaques Villeneuve was a much better driver than people give credit for and deserved his championship despite being in the best car.

Nigel Mansell was an over rated donkey who did only win a championship because of having the best car.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:10 pm 
mds wrote:

I didn't get that from the wording, specifically the "anyone you place in the Renault" part. Also by saying "placing an upgrade on Kimi" I thought that referred to Kimi himself getting more points because another one driving the Ferrari would not have wedged himself in between Kimi and Vettel so often.

I can be wrong of course. lamo will no doubt enlighten us :)


Sorry for the confusion...

I meant by putting Alonso into the 2012 Renault you remove the Alonso 2012 Ferrari package from this grid - Alonso lead the title practically all season in 2012 and around mid sesson had big points leads in the 35-45 point range over Vettel/Hamilton.

Leaving Monza, Alonso was 39 points ahead of Vettel. If Alonso was in the Renault that year I see him having about 40-50 points more than Kimi at that stage - 80+ point lead at that point would be title over.

Basically what I am saying is, Alonso in 2012 Renault would score over 100 points more than Kimi and essentially win the title in the first half of the year whilst everybody else was up and down he would build a huge points lead in that car, allowing him to cruise home to the title with podiums, 4ths etc in the latter part of the year.

I also think the Kimi Raikkonen that started the 2013 F1 season would have ended up with 60-70 more points than his 2012 self - so he himself would have taken the title all the way and possibly won it. Just a shame a rusty Kimi and erratic rookie Grosjean got a great car at the wrong time for both of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:14 pm 
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OK. Well, in that case: I think that is a huge overestimation of how good the Lotus-Renault was. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:22 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
-Hamilton is possibly the most overrated driver in the history of the sport. He's good, but not that good


-If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, he'd be heading for his 11th title now


Regarding these points:

I don't think Hamilton is the most overrated of all time. Overrated maybe, but not in the whole history of the sport. Having said that, I can't name who that driver would be...


As for Schumacher, I'll expand that. If he didn't retire the first time he'd probably be a 9 time winner, if he didn't retire the second time then heading for nr 11.

Senna, and there is my unpopular opinion for the thread :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:23 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
After getting beat by Ricciardo, Vettel will ensure going forward who his teammate might be, already we hear rumours of vetoes against both Alonso and Hamilton.


In the same mould: Hamilton is insecure and that's why he projects his feelings towards having a very strong teammate on Vettel.

:D

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:26 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
After getting beat by Ricciardo, Vettel will ensure going forward who his teammate might be, already we hear rumours of vetoes against both Alonso and Hamilton.


In the same mould: Hamilton is insecure and that's why he projects his feelings towards having a very strong teammate on Vettel.

:D

Beat me to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:57 pm 
mds wrote:
OK. Well, in that case: I think that is a huge overestimation of how good the Lotus-Renault was. :)


It was a season where the champion won 5 races and Alonso who lost the title by 3 points, won 3 races in a 20 race season. The Renault was capable of 4-5 wins and an additional 10 podiums. A quick, consistent and bulletproof car. It was a very good package. Kimi was very close to winning in Bahrain, Spain and Hungary that year and of course won in AD.

Kimi for example had 34 points after 4 races, the car was capable of 70+ points in those first 4 races. Grosjean started 3rd in the first race, it was quick right out of the box.

Kimi was already nearly 50 points off of what the car was capable of, after just 5 races.

The season was easily winnable, Vettel scored 4 podiums in the first 13 races and one race win in the same 13. It was an odd season where a consistent, reliable and reasonably quick car could deliver the title. This is the exact reason Alonso managed a title challenge in the 3rd/4th best car. After 13 races, the most podiums any driver had was 6 and that was Alonso. A good driver on good form in the Renault would have won the title, probably winning 3-5 races but more importantly being on the podium most races in the first half 2/3's of the year whilst everybody else's form was up and down.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:04 pm 
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mds wrote:
OK. Well, in that case: I think that is a huge overestimation of how good the Lotus-Renault was. :)


Possibly but you only need a small upgrade on Kimi and that car is winning multiple races.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:05 pm 
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
-Hamilton is possibly the most overrated driver in the history of the sport. He's good, but not that good


-If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, he'd be heading for his 11th title now


Regarding these points:

I don't think Hamilton is the most overrated of all time. Overrated maybe, but not in the whole history of the sport. Having said that, I can't name who that driver would be...


As for Schumacher, I'll expand that. If he didn't retire the first time he'd probably be a 9 time winner, if he didn't retire the second time then heading for nr 11.


Number 11? In some magical universe where he doesn't age? Schumacher is 48 years old...

Considering Rosberg managed to beat him in qualifying and points in 3 seasons straight its quite a leap to expect him to have whitewashed Rosberg 3-0 the next 3 years, even more so when he would have been 47 years old at the end of 2016.

I am a big Senna fan, Senna would have been the same 47 for the 2007 season, I somehow don't think he would be in the running for the title and the same level if he stayed around until then :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:10 pm 
mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
OK. Well, in that case: I think that is a huge overestimation of how good the Lotus-Renault was. :)


Possibly but you only need a small upgrade on Kimi and that car is winning multiple races.


Very small upgrade and he wins;

Bahrain (messed up qualifying and started 11th and finishes 2nd and still nearly overtook Vettel to win but wasn't aggressive enough)
Spain (0.200 quicker in qualifying and he starts on pole and controls the race, he had the best race pace)
Hungary (qualified very low, he started 5th, Grosjean P2. If he had started P2, he wins the race easily with his 2 stopper)

I think 2013 Kimi wins these races


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:30 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
OK. Well, in that case: I think that is a huge overestimation of how good the Lotus-Renault was. :)


Possibly but you only need a small upgrade on Kimi and that car is winning multiple races.


Sure, but winning a few races would not have been enough.

I find lamo's idea on this way way way too optimistic. 50 points after 5 races? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:51 pm 
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mds wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
OK. Well, in that case: I think that is a huge overestimation of how good the Lotus-Renault was. :)


Possibly but you only need a small upgrade on Kimi and that car is winning multiple races.


Sure, but winning a few races would not have been enough.

I find lamo's idea on this way way way too optimistic. 50 points after 5 races? Sorry, I'm not buying it.


50 points off the max the car was possible of...

I would say without being to over optimistic -

Australia - 3rd
Malayisa - 5th
China - 2nd
Bharain - 1st
Spain - 1st

Giving a total of 91 points. Kimi scored 49.

So I make it 42 points and feel I am being conservative especially in Australia and Malaysia.

It was a very close season so only a small upgrade does make a big difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:59 pm 
mds wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mds wrote:
OK. Well, in that case: I think that is a huge overestimation of how good the Lotus-Renault was. :)


Possibly but you only need a small upgrade on Kimi and that car is winning multiple races.


Sure, but winning a few races would not have been enough.

I find lamo's idea on this way way way too optimistic. 50 points after 5 races? Sorry, I'm not buying it.


I did say nearly 50 points but you are right probably a little optimistic;

Australia - Grosjean started P3 and he was basically a rookie. P3 was possible (+9)

Malaysia - Kimi did quite well to get P5 after a grid penalty, Kimi has never been that strong in the wet and its the first time he drove this type of car in the wet and the Pirelli wet tyre. P4 was possible, maybe more (+2)

China - Kimi finds out what the "cliff" is this race, the others have a year of experience on Pirelli's. He spends the race battling for 3rd/4th before his tyres go late on and he laps 2-3 seconds off the pace. 4th was definitely possibly this race (+12)

Bahrain - He should have won (+7) but qualified 11th.

Spain - He should have won this race too (+10) with a better qualifying

That is 40 points, throw Alonso into that car and he probably still wins Malaysia to make it more like 50. Either way, Kimi was still at very least about 30 points down from where he should have been.

Then in the next 2 races;
Kimi came 9th in Monaco because he qualified 8th (Grosjean started 4th). 4th place finished was easily possible in Monaco (+10)

Next up he qualfied 12th in Canada. Grosjean qualified 7th and finished 2nd in Canada. 2nd was possible. (+14 points)

So after 7 races now, he is getting on for 65 points down... at this point he began to out qualify Grosjean and drive better and the results started to come. Got 4 podiums in the next 5 races before the Lotus dropped off the pace a little in the last 1/3 of the year.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:08 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
-Hamilton is possibly the most overrated driver in the history of the sport. He's good, but not that good


-If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, he'd be heading for his 11th title now


Regarding these points:

I don't think Hamilton is the most overrated of all time. Overrated maybe, but not in the whole history of the sport. Having said that, I can't name who that driver would be...


As for Schumacher, I'll expand that. If he didn't retire the first time he'd probably be a 9 time winner, if he didn't retire the second time then heading for nr 11.


Number 11? In some magical universe where he doesn't age? Schumacher is 48 years old...

Considering Rosberg managed to beat him in qualifying and points in 3 seasons straight its quite a leap to expect him to have whitewashed Rosberg 3-0 the next 3 years, even more so when he would have been 47 years old at the end of 2016.

I am a big Senna fan, Senna would have been the same 47 for the 2007 season, I somehow don't think he would be in the running for the title and the same level if he stayed around until then :lol:


You mean our unpopular opinions are not popular with you??? No way


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:58 pm 
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iano wrote:
Hmm....how about "these guys are far from the worlds best drivers, just the best of the very select, amazingly small compared to the world population, group who get the chance.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:09 pm 
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mds wrote:
OK. Well, in that case: I think that is a huge overestimation of how good the Lotus-Renault was. :)

I've often wondered how that season would have looked if you swapped any combination of Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso with Grosjean/Perez/Maldonado. The latter 3 drivers all had their moments that season, how much more would better drivers have been able to deliver?


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:17 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
What are some opinions you have about F1 that the majority of this forum likely doesn't agree with?

IMO, Max Verstappen is already the best driver on the grid. I reckon he would beat both Hamilton and Vettel in the same car.


If both Hamilton and Vettel were in the same car - I'm sure you are right.

Different opinions.

F1 should be about having the best racing cars and the best drivers duking it out on circuits that are well designed to produce great racing from F1 cars.

The FIA should be able to write whatever rules are needed to create the above and have the powers to enforce the rules - and hire people who are up to the task.

F1 cars should be cheap enough so that you don't have to worry about using more than 4 engine components in a year - and F1 should be cheap enough for 12 teams to all be competitive and financially viable.

Drivers should be more important than the cars. The difference in the cars should be less than the difference between the drivers (this is a generalisation in that it would not be a rule, but an aim - to improve the racing).

Drivers should be hired because they are the best drivers in the world.

Drivers should be encouraged to have personalities and express them.

F1 should succeed because of the battles on the track more than off the track.

Racing should take place within the confines of the track.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:57 pm 
Siao7 wrote:
lamo wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
-Hamilton is possibly the most overrated driver in the history of the sport. He's good, but not that good


-If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, he'd be heading for his 11th title now


Regarding these points:

I don't think Hamilton is the most overrated of all time. Overrated maybe, but not in the whole history of the sport. Having said that, I can't name who that driver would be...


As for Schumacher, I'll expand that. If he didn't retire the first time he'd probably be a 9 time winner, if he didn't retire the second time then heading for nr 11.


Number 11? In some magical universe where he doesn't age? Schumacher is 48 years old...

Considering Rosberg managed to beat him in qualifying and points in 3 seasons straight its quite a leap to expect him to have whitewashed Rosberg 3-0 the next 3 years, even more so when he would have been 47 years old at the end of 2016.

I am a big Senna fan, Senna would have been the same 47 for the 2007 season, I somehow don't think he would be in the running for the title and the same level if he stayed around until then :lol:


You mean our unpopular opinions are not popular with you??? No way


I like a well thought out alternative opinion based on a little bit of logic and a little bit of the subjective but yours is ridiculous. Although you were right in the first part, if he didn't retire first time around he would have won the title in 2007 and 2008 and beyond that who knows.

But once he came back is a completely different story. He wasn't the same driver, unless you rate Rosberg very highly.

Rosberg beat him 3-0 in their time together, expecting a driver to turn around three straight seasons of defeat to his team mate into 3-4 straight wins whilst battling the ageing process into his mid to late forties is way way out there.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:19 pm 
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As much as most people know the importance the car makes in the sport, I truly believe that it is almost the be all and end all as far as winning the driver's championship is concerned. We only have to look at a single race this year when driver A is suddenly off the pace. It's pretty much always down to the team not quite getting the car sorted. There's nothing the driver can do about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
As much as most people know the importance the car makes in the sport, I truly believe that it is almost the be all and end all as far as winning the driver's championship is concerned. We only have to look at a single race this year when driver A is suddenly off the pace. It's pretty much always down to the team not quite getting the car sorted. There's nothing the driver can do about it.


I was really tempted to put the driver is the least important member of a championship winning team but there are a few examples in close championships and only championships fought between team mates which stopped me.

But I do think because people are more drawn to drivers than teams we build up their importance far too much. TJI,HPC,EBD,DD and the mass damper are the most important factors recently and not one of them was created by a driver.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:34 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
lamo wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
-Hamilton is possibly the most overrated driver in the history of the sport. He's good, but not that good


-If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, he'd be heading for his 11th title now


Regarding these points:

I don't think Hamilton is the most overrated of all time. Overrated maybe, but not in the whole history of the sport. Having said that, I can't name who that driver would be...


As for Schumacher, I'll expand that. If he didn't retire the first time he'd probably be a 9 time winner, if he didn't retire the second time then heading for nr 11.


Number 11? In some magical universe where he doesn't age? Schumacher is 48 years old...

Considering Rosberg managed to beat him in qualifying and points in 3 seasons straight its quite a leap to expect him to have whitewashed Rosberg 3-0 the next 3 years, even more so when he would have been 47 years old at the end of 2016.

I am a big Senna fan, Senna would have been the same 47 for the 2007 season, I somehow don't think he would be in the running for the title and the same level if he stayed around until then :lol:


You mean our unpopular opinions are not popular with you??? No way


I like a well thought out alternative opinion based on a little bit of logic and a little bit of the subjective but yours is ridiculous. Although you were right in the first part, if he didn't retire first time around he would have won the title in 2007 and 2008 and beyond that who knows.

But once he came back is a completely different story. He wasn't the same driver, unless you rate Rosberg very highly.

Rosberg beat him 3-0 in their time together, expecting a driver to turn around three straight seasons of defeat to his team mate into 3-4 straight wins whilst battling the ageing process into his mid to late forties is way way out there.

Schumacher had turned the tables somewhat in 2012. Ross brawn said he struggled to adapt to the tyres mainly, as they were completely different to anything he'd driven before. But by 2012 he was pretty competitive and the points don't tell the whole story. His season was affected by mechanical troubles in much the same way that Hamilton's was last year. Without them the scores would have been much closer and certainly in qualifying the tide had turned.

It is of course possible that age would have affected him. But i think he would have overtaken Rosberg in 2013 and would have beaten him quite comfortably


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
As much as most people know the importance the car makes in the sport, I truly believe that it is almost the be all and end all as far as winning the driver's championship is concerned. We only have to look at a single race this year when driver A is suddenly off the pace. It's pretty much always down to the team not quite getting the car sorted. There's nothing the driver can do about it.


I was really tempted to put the driver is the least important member of a championship winning team but there are a few examples in close championships and only championships fought between team mates which stopped me.

But I do think because people are more drawn to drivers than teams we build up their importance far too much. TJI,HPC,EBD,DD and the mass damper are the most important factors recently and not one of them was created by a driver.


I don't really thinks it's true. I think most title winning cars would not have won the championships they won if you put the two worst drivers on the grid in them. I actually think the difference a good driver makes if often under played and we get to caught up in thinking car A is better than car B because car A finished ahead, without contemplating who was driving and the difference they make.

Ok the last three years Merc have been dominant but before that, put an average driver in Hamilton's Mclaren in 08 and Massa gets the championship. Put an average driver in Alonso's Renault's in 05 or 06 and they wouldn't even compete for the championship etc


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:04 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
As much as most people know the importance the car makes in the sport, I truly believe that it is almost the be all and end all as far as winning the driver's championship is concerned. We only have to look at a single race this year when driver A is suddenly off the pace. It's pretty much always down to the team not quite getting the car sorted. There's nothing the driver can do about it.


I was really tempted to put the driver is the least important member of a championship winning team but there are a few examples in close championships and only championships fought between team mates which stopped me.

But I do think because people are more drawn to drivers than teams we build up their importance far too much. TJI,HPC,EBD,DD and the mass damper are the most important factors recently and not one of them was created by a driver.


I don't really thinks it's true. I think most title winning cars would not have won the championships they won if you put the two worst drivers on the grid in them. I actually think the difference a good driver makes if often under played and we get to caught up in thinking car A is better than car B because car A finished ahead, without contemplating who was driving and the difference they make.

Ok the last three years Merc have been dominant but before that, put an average driver in Hamilton's Mclaren in 08 and Massa gets the championship. Put an average driver in Alonso's Renault's in 05 or 06 and they wouldn't even compete for the championship etc


Yeah there were a few good reasons why I bottled putting it down in the first place. :-P

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:26 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
After getting beat by Ricciardo, Vettel will ensure going forward who his teammate might be, already we hear rumours of vetoes against both Alonso and Hamilton.


In the same mould: Hamilton is insecure and that's why he projects his feelings towards having a very strong teammate on Vettel.

:D

Oh you're dragging Hamilton into this who held his own against Alonso, we will ever see Vettel against a similar caliber driver, maybe we did with Ricciardo?

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:27 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
After getting beat by Ricciardo, Vettel will ensure going forward who his teammate might be, already we hear rumours of vetoes against both Alonso and Hamilton.


In the same mould: Hamilton is insecure and that's why he projects his feelings towards having a very strong teammate on Vettel.

:D

Beat me to it.

Yes it's only fun when we can deride Hamilton. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:29 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
-Hamilton is possibly the most overrated driver in the history of the sport. He's good, but not that good


-If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, he'd be heading for his 11th title now


Regarding these points:

I don't think Hamilton is the most overrated of all time. Overrated maybe, but not in the whole history of the sport. Having said that, I can't name who that driver would be...


As for Schumacher, I'll expand that. If he didn't retire the first time he'd probably be a 9 time winner, if he didn't retire the second time then heading for nr 11.


Number 11? In some magical universe where he doesn't age? Schumacher is 48 years old...

Considering Rosberg managed to beat him in qualifying and points in 3 seasons straight its quite a leap to expect him to have whitewashed Rosberg 3-0 the next 3 years, even more so when he would have been 47 years old at the end of 2016.

I am a big Senna fan, Senna would have been the same 47 for the 2007 season, I somehow don't think he would be in the running for the title and the same level if he stayed around until then :lol:

There's far too much logic in that reply. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:31 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
After getting beat by Ricciardo, Vettel will ensure going forward who his teammate might be, already we hear rumours of vetoes against both Alonso and Hamilton.


In the same mould: Hamilton is insecure and that's why he projects his feelings towards having a very strong teammate on Vettel.

:D

Oh you're dragging Hamilton into this who held his own against Alonso, we will ever see Vettel against a similar caliber driver, maybe we did with Ricciardo?


Well, it seems like I managed to post a reply that complies to the topic at hand.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:33 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:34 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
After getting beat by Ricciardo, Vettel will ensure going forward who his teammate might be, already we hear rumours of vetoes against both Alonso and Hamilton.


In the same mould: Hamilton is insecure and that's why he projects his feelings towards having a very strong teammate on Vettel.

:D

Oh you're dragging Hamilton into this who held his own against Alonso, we will ever see Vettel against a similar caliber driver, maybe we did with Ricciardo?


Well, it seems like I managed to post a reply that complies to the topic at hand.

No you replied in that way knowing I'm a Hamilton fan.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:39 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
After getting beat by Ricciardo, Vettel will ensure going forward who his teammate might be, already we hear rumours of vetoes against both Alonso and Hamilton.


In the same mould: Hamilton is insecure and that's why he projects his feelings towards having a very strong teammate on Vettel.

:D

Oh you're dragging Hamilton into this who held his own against Alonso, we will ever see Vettel against a similar caliber driver, maybe we did with Ricciardo?


Well, it seems like I managed to post a reply that complies to the topic at hand.

No you replied in that way knowing I'm a Hamilton fan.


You're painfully sensitive mate. Get a grip.

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