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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:50 pm 
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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13133 ... safety-car

If this means that the car could go round a track faster than it does now then I see this as a good thing, and if that is the case then they should make it an autonomous F1 car to get the fastest possible speed round a track.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Why? The problem is usually what happens behind the safetycar...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:02 pm 
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Warheart01 wrote:
Why? The problem is usually what happens behind the safetycar...

+1!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:08 pm 
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Warheart01 wrote:
Why? The problem is usually what happens behind the safetycar...


I didn't see any such thing in Canada or Austria!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:58 pm 
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owenmahamilton wrote:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131336/f1-could-introduce-a-driverless-safety-car

If this means that the car could go round a track faster than it does now then I see this as a good thing, and if that is the case then they should make it an autonomous F1 car to get the fastest possible speed round a track.

But going round as fast as possible kind of (totally) defeats the whole purpose of the safety car :?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:24 pm 
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With this tech I see no need for the safety car at all.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:40 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
With this tech I see no need for the safety car at all.



Indeed, its biggest benefit to F1 is through a large sponsorship. "The F1 saftey car powered by UBER/Tesla" where commentators have to call it by its full name at all times or "The Tesla Safety car" which has the added bonus of coupling the words safety and Tesla which I am sure they would pay millions to F1 for.

But you are right, with the current technology, the lead car can easily become the SC.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:59 pm 
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If they are doing that, why not use a F1 car on the sane tyres and with extra sensors to get full feedback of the track conditions as is, and at closer to racing speed?

Not so much in the event of a 'straight' accident if you will forgive the expression, but in poor conditions the car its self would know exactly how the racers were going, and could even do a couple of laps at intermediate speed. This would also dry the track and rise tyre temps before the restart.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:25 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:
Why? The problem is usually what happens behind the safetycar...


I didn't see any such thing in Canada or Austria!


Hence the word usually.

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Last edited by Warheart01 on Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:27 pm 
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minchy wrote:
owenmahamilton wrote:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/131336/f1-could-introduce-a-driverless-safety-car

If this means that the car could go round a track faster than it does now then I see this as a good thing, and if that is the case then they should make it an autonomous F1 car to get the fastest possible speed round a track.

But going round as fast as possible kind of (totally) defeats the whole purpose of the safety car :?


Exactly, it isn't ment to go as fast as possible. Then they wouldn't drive a tailhappy Mercedes to begin with.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:30 pm 
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moby wrote:
why not use a F1 car on the sane tyresd
Because it appears that Pirelli and sane tyres don't go together. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:57 pm 
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Or make the lead car the safety car with min/max deltas for each sub sector. Basically VSC with slower sector times, especially in the danger zone. They could start very low to bunch the pack and then be raised to improve tyre temps.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:10 pm 
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The cars might not look like they're going fast but trust me they are. You're all just accustomed to them going all out so when you see them at anything less that that it feels like they're crawling. On average I believe the SC in F1 is going about 80MPH (128.748KPH) which is pretty darn fast, and fast enough for me. Either way the cars are bunched together since it's much slower than race pace and in the end the gaps would be the same. WHO is setting these BS agendas in the FIA and why??? I don't see how promoting autonomous technology benefits the FIA in any way unless it's the company providing the car paying them, but the existing manufacturers pay the FIA for the right to be the Official Pace Car of F1. And realistically speaking I'd venture to say Tesla would be the supplier for the autonomous car.

As well, if you make the safety car faster you end up running many more laps under caution, which takes away from the race so I fail to see why anyone would think this is a good thing.
It's a TERRIBLE idea if you ask me. The best solution would be a max speed period just like the pit lane limiter.

They throw around the word "Solution" as if trying to dupe people into believing there's a problem out there that needs a resolution, when in fact no problem exists. If all they want was a remote controlled vehicle there are plenty out there and pre-programming one to follow a specific route is extremely simple to do these days. Place a GPS unit in it, tell it YOU ARE HERE, go around the track this way at X speed (so long as the car is physically able to), rinse and repeat. It's just another one of the FIA's grand schemes to get people to throw money into a trash can. Furthermore the statement of the FIA wanting to understand how it should be placed in front of these new technologies is a rather pointless statement because the FIA exists to govern and sanction professional racing, not look into technology that is of zero significance to racing.

IMPO this is just a huge waste of time and resources.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:39 pm 
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I don't see the benefit of this. When the marshals are on track the aim is to go sufficiently slow and bunch everyone up to give them time to sort everything out. I suppose on the lap where the SC is coming in that going a bit faster might be of slight benefit but this seems like (as F1 MERCENARY mentioned) solving a problem that isn't really a problem.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:31 am 
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I dont see this happening.

The safety car driver and co driver have more responsibility than just to drive ahead of F1 cars. They report back on track conditions, any visible oil leak on the track or debris present on the track as well and assist race control with the restart as well as track conditions in case of rain.

I dont see driverless car being able to do all that just yet. It may well drive faster around the track and even pickup some debris, but it cant beat human judgement. Not yet.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:13 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
With this tech I see no need for the safety car at all.


One thing I like about the safety car is that it really reinforces just how quick the F1 cars are. You see the safety car on the limit and the F1 cars behind looking like they're in a parking lot looking for space.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:54 am 
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Why should it be a Tesla?

If the point is to advertise the 'future' why not use a Google driverless car. Added safety too - the marshals will be able to walk out of it's way when they are clearing the track.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:32 am 
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Why not just get one of those "Robot Vacuums" to replace the Safety Car, then we also don't need marshals?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:22 pm 
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I don't think there's any problem with this but it's better left to FE. There will be a point in time where the FIA will have to make up their minds what they want F1 and FE to be. If they keep pushing F1 further into these areas then what will FE's purpose be?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:32 pm 
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How well will it work in heavy rain?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:04 pm 
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Ennis wrote:
Why not just get one of those "Robot Vacuums" to replace the Safety Car, then we also don't need marshals?


Nah, they suck


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:22 pm 
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moby wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Why not just get one of those "Robot Vacuums" to replace the Safety Car, then we also don't need marshals?


Nah, they suck

Boo!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:49 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
How well will it work in heavy rain?

Probably quite well. Computers are good at reacting very rapidly to changes in traction. Modern cars often already have some degree of automation to help keep thing is a straight line. Ultimately the track isn't the road so navigational challenges bought about by changing conditions are going to be less of an issue.
-----------
I do think that the tech is there to essentially automate the safety car process without a real safety car at all. If you can limit each car's sector (or even sub-sector) times remotely you can basically do what you like regarding bunching up the pack.

The only obvious advantage of having a real safety car over this is that you have a driver/co-driver who can give you live subjective feedback and potentially react independently to a developing on track situation. With an automated safety car, even with a load of cameras and sensors on it, you'd largely remove this capability.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:35 pm 
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This is where my beliefs and those of some posters diverge. A safety car exists for just one reason, safety. It is sent out on track to stabilize the action and slow things down so that the marshalls and others can attend to the problem that brought the safety car out. And for anyone who has ever been in an emergency situation, you want things simplified, not messed up with extra layers of complication. An automated vehicle may be programmed to respond to most situations on the track, but it cannot to all. Thus keeping a human in the loop is of vital importance.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Trying to solve a problem that is not there, if the problem is that the safety car is a bit too slow on some cases, just convert a soon to be retired DTM Merc to handle a passenger and call it a day, that way pace can be controlled better (faster or slower) without the driver having to be driving at 10/10ths just to keep Hamilton happy........


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:33 pm 
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Lord Crc wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
With this tech I see no need for the safety car at all.


One thing I like about the safety car is that it really reinforces just how quick the F1 cars are. You see the safety car on the limit and the F1 cars behind looking like they're in a parking lot looking for space.


These Mercedes Benz safety cars can go well over 150 mph. As a safety car, they are loafing at 80mph. The driver along with the car's function (as a safety car) is probably the limiting factor here.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:01 am 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
These Mercedes Benz safety cars can go well over 150 mph. As a safety car, they are loafing at 80mph. The driver along with the car's function (as a safety car) is probably the limiting factor here.


Can they do 150mph through a corner?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:42 am 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
This is where my beliefs and those of some posters diverge. A safety car exists for just one reason, safety. It is sent out on track to stabilize the action and slow things down so that the marshalls and others can attend to the problem that brought the safety car out. And for anyone who has ever been in an emergency situation, you want things simplified, not messed up with extra layers of complication. An automated vehicle may be programmed to respond to most situations on the track, but it cannot to all. Thus keeping a human in the loop is of vital importance.


I agree.

Why are they looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist? I have a tough time believing that I am saying this, but I have to agree with warheart too..... the problems haven't been the human driven safety cars, it is what happens BEHIND the safety cars. Should we consider replacing that drivers as well then?
;)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:58 pm 
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With the Virtual Safety Car, I don't get the point of a driverless one. Hell, I don't get the point of a safety car full stop. Just move over to the VSC. Have someone sponsor the VSC, and plaster their logos on the screen while they're rolling around the track.

Brundle could even say things like "Virtual Safety Car, brought to you by Henry McClicken's Fricken Kicken Chicken flavoured beef sticks. When you feel like beef, but crave that chicken flavour..."


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:06 am 
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Marcin Budkowski, the head of the FIA's F1 technical department, has suggested that a driverless safety car would be a good way of proving automotive advances without detracting from the show.

This obsession with trying to make F1 some kind of technological proving ground is getting really tedious. No-one's calling for it. And in any event I can see more negatives than positives in a driverless safety car. What if they have to thread their way past obstacles? What, indeed, is the point, beyond some engineering wet dream?


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