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 Post subject: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:06 am 
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Now would be a good time to see who everyone thinks has been the top 10 performing drivers in 2017 thus far. We can pose the same question at the end of the season and see how much things can change in just under half a season -

My Top 10 -

1. Vettel
2. Alonso
3. Verstappen
4. Hamilton
5. Ricciardo
6. Perez
7. Bottas
8. Ocon
9. Hulkenberg
10. Sainz

Bottom 3 could be in any order, as could 3-5.


Last edited by mikeyg123 on Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:11 am 
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2018?

I'd put Hamilton at least one place above


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:27 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
2018?

I'd put Hamilton at least one place above


Thanks for pointing out the error. I actually just finished looking at flights for early 2018 when I started the topic so that must have been why I had 2018 on the brain.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:00 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
1. Vettel
2. Alonso
3. Verstappen
4. Hamilton
5. Ricciardo

You must have read my mind because that was my exact top 5 in that order.

6. Grosjean
7. Perez
8. Bottas
9. Ocon
10. Sainz/Hulkenberg


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:48 am 
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I'm rather surprised anyone can rate Sainz in the top 10 really. He's been responsible for more drivers retiring than any other driver this year. Both of his incidents looked extremely silly and worse than his team mates recent 2. I also think there was evidence that they were worse as he himself had to retire both times and even though that was already a punishment, he got 2 penalty points and a grid drop on top of that on both occasions. He has had some good races but I don't think they stand out quite as much as some think. In China, his recovery was excellent but his start was poor. He went far too wide in the first corner and nearly crashed. Then in an attempt to get back on track, he spun and hit the barrier. He was lucky this didn't cause him any damage. He was just too frantic to rejoin the circuit. But after that, his drive was great. In Spain, many said that was an excellent drive. I think either Sainz had a not so good drive or Kvyat had an outstanding drive as Kvyat started 19th and finished just over 5 seconds behind Sainz. Monaco was a race where I think he just got the maximum out the car but it didn't look to be outstanding. Kvyat showed the pace the car had by being 6th in P1 and 4th in P2.

On F1 Fanatic, I did a list with all the drivers ratings and a very detailed description of most of them but I don't think I should copy and paste that here. I could just do my top 10 but I feel people will strongly disagree with some of mine as 6 out of 10 of them are unfortunately in the championship order.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:44 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I'm rather surprised anyone can rate Sainz in the top 10 really. He's been responsible for more drivers retiring than any other driver this year. Both of his incidents looked extremely silly and worse than his team mates recent 2. I also think there was evidence that they were worse as he himself had to retire both times and even though that was already a punishment, he got 2 penalty points and a grid drop on top of that on both occasions. He has had some good races but I don't think they stand out quite as much as some think. In China, his recovery was excellent but his start was poor. He went far too wide in the first corner and nearly crashed. Then in an attempt to get back on track, he spun and hit the barrier. He was lucky this didn't cause him any damage. He was just too frantic to rejoin the circuit. But after that, his drive was great. In Spain, many said that was an excellent drive. I think either Sainz had a not so good drive or Kvyat had an outstanding drive as Kvyat started 19th and finished just over 5 seconds behind Sainz. Monaco was a race where I think he just got the maximum out the car but it didn't look to be outstanding. Kvyat showed the pace the car had by being 6th in P1 and 4th in P2.

On F1 Fanatic, I did a list with all the drivers ratings and a very detailed description of most of them but I don't think I should copy and paste that here. I could just do my top 10 but I feel people will strongly disagree with some of mine as 6 out of 10 of them are unfortunately in the championship order.


If you DSQ Sainz on the basis of two silly incidents is it consistent to put Vettel at number 1 after Azerbaijan? Sainz has been bringing home good points on a regular basis when his team mate has scored only twice. I can't see anyone else I've not listed who could be doing a better job overall.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:12 am 
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Posts: 1022
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I'm rather surprised anyone can rate Sainz in the top 10 really. He's been responsible for more drivers retiring than any other driver this year. Both of his incidents looked extremely silly and worse than his team mates recent 2. I also think there was evidence that they were worse as he himself had to retire both times and even though that was already a punishment, he got 2 penalty points and a grid drop on top of that on both occasions. He has had some good races but I don't think they stand out quite as much as some think. In China, his recovery was excellent but his start was poor. He went far too wide in the first corner and nearly crashed. Then in an attempt to get back on track, he spun and hit the barrier. He was lucky this didn't cause him any damage. He was just too frantic to rejoin the circuit. But after that, his drive was great. In Spain, many said that was an excellent drive. I think either Sainz had a not so good drive or Kvyat had an outstanding drive as Kvyat started 19th and finished just over 5 seconds behind Sainz. Monaco was a race where I think he just got the maximum out the car but it didn't look to be outstanding. Kvyat showed the pace the car had by being 6th in P1 and 4th in P2.

On F1 Fanatic, I did a list with all the drivers ratings and a very detailed description of most of them but I don't think I should copy and paste that here. I could just do my top 10 but I feel people will strongly disagree with some of mine as 6 out of 10 of them are unfortunately in the championship order.


If you DSQ Sainz on the basis of two silly incidents is it consistent to put Vettel at number 1 after Azerbaijan? Sainz has been bringing home good points on a regular basis when his team mate has scored only twice. I can't see anyone else I've not listed who could be doing a better job overall.


I think Vettel's only weak race as a whole of the season was in Silvestone. In Baku, he hit the back of Hamilton, then had a moment of madness. But this was all withing a tiny time gap and lets be honest, it wasn't a heavy impact that caused any damage. From then on, his recovery was fine and he was just as strong as he usually has been. He did cost himself a much better position due to his stupid moment but in terms of his racing this year, I think that he is clearly the best. Sainz hasn't just had 2 silly incidents though has he? He's had several races where his supposedly poor team mate has looked to be better than him as well as having several spins nearly resulting in a crash. Even his start to Baku was a mess when he over reacted to Kvyat coming back on track.

The main reason why I would rate him lower is just because of how big his 2 costly incidents were. I don't even think the rest of his races really make him impressive enough on top of this to move him into the top 10. Guess we can have different opinions though as this is the point of the thread. On F1 Fanatic though, many people did think people had been generous to include Sainz this high.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:39 am 
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Posts: 12294
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I'm rather surprised anyone can rate Sainz in the top 10 really. He's been responsible for more drivers retiring than any other driver this year. Both of his incidents looked extremely silly and worse than his team mates recent 2. I also think there was evidence that they were worse as he himself had to retire both times and even though that was already a punishment, he got 2 penalty points and a grid drop on top of that on both occasions. He has had some good races but I don't think they stand out quite as much as some think. In China, his recovery was excellent but his start was poor. He went far too wide in the first corner and nearly crashed. Then in an attempt to get back on track, he spun and hit the barrier. He was lucky this didn't cause him any damage. He was just too frantic to rejoin the circuit. But after that, his drive was great. In Spain, many said that was an excellent drive. I think either Sainz had a not so good drive or Kvyat had an outstanding drive as Kvyat started 19th and finished just over 5 seconds behind Sainz. Monaco was a race where I think he just got the maximum out the car but it didn't look to be outstanding. Kvyat showed the pace the car had by being 6th in P1 and 4th in P2.

On F1 Fanatic, I did a list with all the drivers ratings and a very detailed description of most of them but I don't think I should copy and paste that here. I could just do my top 10 but I feel people will strongly disagree with some of mine as 6 out of 10 of them are unfortunately in the championship order.


If you DSQ Sainz on the basis of two silly incidents is it consistent to put Vettel at number 1 after Azerbaijan? Sainz has been bringing home good points on a regular basis when his team mate has scored only twice. I can't see anyone else I've not listed who could be doing a better job overall.


I think Vettel's only weak race as a whole of the season was in Silvestone. In Baku, he hit the back of Hamilton, then had a moment of madness. But this was all withing a tiny time gap and lets be honest, it wasn't a heavy impact that caused any damage. From then on, his recovery was fine and he was just as strong as he usually has been. He did cost himself a much better position due to his stupid moment but in terms of his racing this year, I think that he is clearly the best. Sainz hasn't just had 2 silly incidents though has he? He's had several races where his supposedly poor team mate has looked to be better than him as well as having several spins nearly resulting in a crash. Even his start to Baku was a mess when he over reacted to Kvyat coming back on track.

The main reason why I would rate him lower is just because of how big his 2 costly incidents were. I don't even think the rest of his races really make him impressive enough on top of this to move him into the top 10. Guess we can have different opinions though as this is the point of the thread. On F1 Fanatic though, many people did think people had been generous to include Sainz this high.


In fairness like Vettel's, Sainz's errors were only just a second out of the season. I'm obviously not holding Sainz to the same standard as Vettel. One of which is in the discussion for 1st the other for the back end of the top 10 so naturally I think Sainz has had more bad races. It's just that if you knock Sainz back places for a few dodgy moments then why not Vettel for his? (note - I put Vettel as number 1. I'm just playing devil's advocate with your logic.)


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Posts: 1022
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I'm rather surprised anyone can rate Sainz in the top 10 really. He's been responsible for more drivers retiring than any other driver this year. Both of his incidents looked extremely silly and worse than his team mates recent 2. I also think there was evidence that they were worse as he himself had to retire both times and even though that was already a punishment, he got 2 penalty points and a grid drop on top of that on both occasions. He has had some good races but I don't think they stand out quite as much as some think. In China, his recovery was excellent but his start was poor. He went far too wide in the first corner and nearly crashed. Then in an attempt to get back on track, he spun and hit the barrier. He was lucky this didn't cause him any damage. He was just too frantic to rejoin the circuit. But after that, his drive was great. In Spain, many said that was an excellent drive. I think either Sainz had a not so good drive or Kvyat had an outstanding drive as Kvyat started 19th and finished just over 5 seconds behind Sainz. Monaco was a race where I think he just got the maximum out the car but it didn't look to be outstanding. Kvyat showed the pace the car had by being 6th in P1 and 4th in P2.

On F1 Fanatic, I did a list with all the drivers ratings and a very detailed description of most of them but I don't think I should copy and paste that here. I could just do my top 10 but I feel people will strongly disagree with some of mine as 6 out of 10 of them are unfortunately in the championship order.


If you DSQ Sainz on the basis of two silly incidents is it consistent to put Vettel at number 1 after Azerbaijan? Sainz has been bringing home good points on a regular basis when his team mate has scored only twice. I can't see anyone else I've not listed who could be doing a better job overall.


I think Vettel's only weak race as a whole of the season was in Silvestone. In Baku, he hit the back of Hamilton, then had a moment of madness. But this was all withing a tiny time gap and lets be honest, it wasn't a heavy impact that caused any damage. From then on, his recovery was fine and he was just as strong as he usually has been. He did cost himself a much better position due to his stupid moment but in terms of his racing this year, I think that he is clearly the best. Sainz hasn't just had 2 silly incidents though has he? He's had several races where his supposedly poor team mate has looked to be better than him as well as having several spins nearly resulting in a crash. Even his start to Baku was a mess when he over reacted to Kvyat coming back on track.

The main reason why I would rate him lower is just because of how big his 2 costly incidents were. I don't even think the rest of his races really make him impressive enough on top of this to move him into the top 10. Guess we can have different opinions though as this is the point of the thread. On F1 Fanatic though, many people did think people had been generous to include Sainz this high.


In fairness like Vettel's, Sainz's errors were only just a second out of the season. I'm obviously not holding Sainz to the same standard as Vettel. One of which is in the discussion for 1st the other for the back end of the top 10 so naturally I think Sainz has had more bad races. It's just that if you knock Sainz back places for a few dodgy moments then why not Vettel for his? (note - I put Vettel as number 1. I'm just playing devil's advocate with your logic.)


And in those few seconds, he was responsible for more drivers retirements over the entire season than any other driver.... Vettel's off days resulted in nothing remotely close to being as bad as this. Like you say, you did vote Vettel first, but I personally think these incidents Sainz had as well as his others would make him very difficult for me to possibly rate him as high as 8th.

I guess I did actually rate Sainz just 1 position lower than you have. I just don't think Sainz could be anywhere between 8th and 10th like you have said. I maybe rate drivers slightly differently but Vettel's race in Silverstone wasn't poor, it was just his weakest. He didn't make any big mistakes. Baku, he did make a mistake, but the result of what he did didn't really cause any harm. If we ignore his awful attitude, I can still say most of that race was still very good. Sainz as I have mentioned has had 2 really bad moments, far worse than any of Vettels as well as having several spins and near misses even though I guess most of them did turn out to be good results. Maybe P10 is fair but anything higher to me is pushing it a bit far. I personally think Raikonnen has been overall better than Sainz. Although Sainz has had more outstanding races, I can't say Raikonnen has made any very obvious mistakes in the races. At least not any big ones. He is also one of a very limited amount of drivers not to currently have any penalty points. He has had a couple of races where he did look to have more pace than Vettel.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:13 pm 
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Posts: 683
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
I'm rather surprised anyone can rate Sainz in the top 10 really. He's been responsible for more drivers retiring than any other driver this year. Both of his incidents looked extremely silly and worse than his team mates recent 2. I also think there was evidence that they were worse as he himself had to retire both times and even though that was already a punishment, he got 2 penalty points and a grid drop on top of that on both occasions. He has had some good races but I don't think they stand out quite as much as some think. In China, his recovery was excellent but his start was poor. He went far too wide in the first corner and nearly crashed. Then in an attempt to get back on track, he spun and hit the barrier. He was lucky this didn't cause him any damage. He was just too frantic to rejoin the circuit. But after that, his drive was great. In Spain, many said that was an excellent drive. I think either Sainz had a not so good drive or Kvyat had an outstanding drive as Kvyat started 19th and finished just over 5 seconds behind Sainz. Monaco was a race where I think he just got the maximum out the car but it didn't look to be outstanding. Kvyat showed the pace the car had by being 6th in P1 and 4th in P2.

On F1 Fanatic, I did a list with all the drivers ratings and a very detailed description of most of them but I don't think I should copy and paste that here. I could just do my top 10 but I feel people will strongly disagree with some of mine as 6 out of 10 of them are unfortunately in the championship order.


If you DSQ Sainz on the basis of two silly incidents is it consistent to put Vettel at number 1 after Azerbaijan? Sainz has been bringing home good points on a regular basis when his team mate has scored only twice. I can't see anyone else I've not listed who could be doing a better job overall.


I think Vettel's only weak race as a whole of the season was in Silvestone. In Baku, he hit the back of Hamilton, then had a moment of madness. But this was all withing a tiny time gap and lets be honest, it wasn't a heavy impact that caused any damage. From then on, his recovery was fine and he was just as strong as he usually has been. He did cost himself a much better position due to his stupid moment but in terms of his racing this year, I think that he is clearly the best. Sainz hasn't just had 2 silly incidents though has he? He's had several races where his supposedly poor team mate has looked to be better than him as well as having several spins nearly resulting in a crash. Even his start to Baku was a mess when he over reacted to Kvyat coming back on track.

The main reason why I would rate him lower is just because of how big his 2 costly incidents were. I don't even think the rest of his races really make him impressive enough on top of this to move him into the top 10. Guess we can have different opinions though as this is the point of the thread. On F1 Fanatic though, many people did think people had been generous to include Sainz this high.


In fairness like Vettel's, Sainz's errors were only just a second out of the season. I'm obviously not holding Sainz to the same standard as Vettel. One of which is in the discussion for 1st the other for the back end of the top 10 so naturally I think Sainz has had more bad races. It's just that if you knock Sainz back places for a few dodgy moments then why not Vettel for his? (note - I put Vettel as number 1. I'm just playing devil's advocate with your logic.)


And in those few seconds, he was responsible for more drivers retirements over the entire season than any other driver.... Vettel's off days resulted in nothing remotely close to being as bad as this. Like you say, you did vote Vettel first, but I personally think these incidents Sainz had as well as his others would make him very difficult for me to possibly rate him as high as 8th.

I guess I did actually rate Sainz just 1 position lower than you have. I just don't think Sainz could be anywhere between 8th and 10th like you have said. I maybe rate drivers slightly differently but Vettel's race in Silverstone wasn't poor, it was just his weakest. He didn't make any big mistakes. Baku, he did make a mistake, but the result of what he did didn't really cause any harm. If we ignore his awful attitude, I can still say most of that race was still very good. Sainz as I have mentioned has had 2 really bad moments, far worse than any of Vettels as well as having several spins and near misses even though I guess most of them did turn out to be good results. Maybe P10 is fair but anything higher to me is pushing it a bit far. I personally think Raikonnen has been overall better than Sainz. Although Sainz has had more outstanding races, I can't say Raikonnen has made any very obvious mistakes in the races. At least not any big ones. He is also one of a very limited amount of drivers not to currently have any penalty points. He has had a couple of races where he did look to have more pace than Vettel.


Sainz mostly starts in the midfield(unlike other young highly rated driver who keep banging wheels despite starting at/near the front) and if you have paid attention, Sainz is actually one of the best starters and he rarely loses positions at the start(when he finishes the race).

How many points have they scored each since they became teammates(SAI - KVY)?
If anything he is one of the most underrated drivers on the grid. You keep hearing for example left and right about Ocon but he is yet to beat Perez.

VER, VET, BOT, OCO, RAI, KVY, GRO all have had their share of accidents and have costed a lot of points to their teams, but all you read is SAINZ. Funny.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:14 pm 
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Pullrod wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
If you DSQ Sainz on the basis of two silly incidents is it consistent to put Vettel at number 1 after Azerbaijan? Sainz has been bringing home good points on a regular basis when his team mate has scored only twice. I can't see anyone else I've not listed who could be doing a better job overall.


I think Vettel's only weak race as a whole of the season was in Silvestone. In Baku, he hit the back of Hamilton, then had a moment of madness. But this was all withing a tiny time gap and lets be honest, it wasn't a heavy impact that caused any damage. From then on, his recovery was fine and he was just as strong as he usually has been. He did cost himself a much better position due to his stupid moment but in terms of his racing this year, I think that he is clearly the best. Sainz hasn't just had 2 silly incidents though has he? He's had several races where his supposedly poor team mate has looked to be better than him as well as having several spins nearly resulting in a crash. Even his start to Baku was a mess when he over reacted to Kvyat coming back on track.

The main reason why I would rate him lower is just because of how big his 2 costly incidents were. I don't even think the rest of his races really make him impressive enough on top of this to move him into the top 10. Guess we can have different opinions though as this is the point of the thread. On F1 Fanatic though, many people did think people had been generous to include Sainz this high.


In fairness like Vettel's, Sainz's errors were only just a second out of the season. I'm obviously not holding Sainz to the same standard as Vettel. One of which is in the discussion for 1st the other for the back end of the top 10 so naturally I think Sainz has had more bad races. It's just that if you knock Sainz back places for a few dodgy moments then why not Vettel for his? (note - I put Vettel as number 1. I'm just playing devil's advocate with your logic.)


And in those few seconds, he was responsible for more drivers retirements over the entire season than any other driver.... Vettel's off days resulted in nothing remotely close to being as bad as this. Like you say, you did vote Vettel first, but I personally think these incidents Sainz had as well as his others would make him very difficult for me to possibly rate him as high as 8th.

I guess I did actually rate Sainz just 1 position lower than you have. I just don't think Sainz could be anywhere between 8th and 10th like you have said. I maybe rate drivers slightly differently but Vettel's race in Silverstone wasn't poor, it was just his weakest. He didn't make any big mistakes. Baku, he did make a mistake, but the result of what he did didn't really cause any harm. If we ignore his awful attitude, I can still say most of that race was still very good. Sainz as I have mentioned has had 2 really bad moments, far worse than any of Vettels as well as having several spins and near misses even though I guess most of them did turn out to be good results. Maybe P10 is fair but anything higher to me is pushing it a bit far. I personally think Raikonnen has been overall better than Sainz. Although Sainz has had more outstanding races, I can't say Raikonnen has made any very obvious mistakes in the races. At least not any big ones. He is also one of a very limited amount of drivers not to currently have any penalty points. He has had a couple of races where he did look to have more pace than Vettel.


Sainz mostly starts in the midfield(unlike other young highly rated driver who keep banging wheels despite starting at/near the front) and if you have paid attention, Sainz is actually one of the best starters and he rarely loses positions at the start(when he finishes the race).

How many points have they scored each since they became teammates(SAI - KVY)?
If anything he is one of the most underrated drivers on the grid. You keep hearing for example left and right about Ocon but he is yet to beat Perez.

VER, VET, BOT, OCO, RAI, KVY, GRO all have had their share of accidents and have costed a lot of points to their teams, but all you read is SAINZ. Funny.


Just because I haven't mentioned the others doesn't mean I haven't been aware of what they have done. I agree Sainz is certainly better than Kvyat but it is also true that ever since Kvyat moved back to Toro Rosso, his luck has been far worse and he has missed out on points on plenty of occasions that were no fault of his own. Bottas has indeed been involved in a few collisions but the only point where he really cost the team points was in China which I certainly agree was a negative point. Ocon and especially Perez both looked to have a poor weekend at Monaco and Ocon had another silly moment in Baku. I have been mentioning Sainz more because he has had 2 of the worst looking incidents this year as well as having several other near misses. Other than these, I can say he has been very good and consistent. Although surprisingly, his team boss seemed to think Sainz and Kvyat were equally to blame for the incident in Silverstone. But Kvyat not being that good most of the time has made Sainz look better than he really is. Kvyat has overall averaged out quicker than him if in qualifying you work out the average of their qualifying times and there have at leased been 5 races where Kvyat looked better than him even if it wasn't anything special. The one race where I think Kvyat was clearly better was Australia. But other than that, I can agree Sainz has been much better. Where I did my ratings on F1 Fanatic, I rated Kvyat 19th and Sainz 11th. But towards the beginning of the season, I actually thought they were doing just as well due to how they both seemed to be up and down.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:25 pm 
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1. Vettel
2. Verstappen
3. Alonso
4. Hamilton
5. Bottas
6. Kimi
7. Hulkenberg
8. Ricciardo
9. Perez
10. Ocon


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:39 am 
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I'm surprised how people are somehow rating Max massively above Dan - (eg Quark) particularly when qualifying is close, Dan is making fewer mistakes - and while Max has had awful reliability (and the points gap does not reflect a genuine comparison between the drivers) - I'm not sure 'a few' of those races weren't down to his driving style and how hard Max pushes kerbs etc.

Hard to see how Dan could have done much better given the machinery he has - and without the kamikaze efforts of Max at Austria - he'd have been in 4th (ahead of Max and Lewis) I think Dan could have got a podium - and potentially better than 3rd as he would have been pushing Bottas and the Ferraris more and really does drive well at that track.

Fast, consistent, few errors, maximises results, good for team harmony, good feedback -and does it in a car that's 3rd best on the grid at most circuits - for me that puts Dan into the top 3 - and for now ahead of Max.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:54 am 
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I genuinely can't believe that in 2017 some people still blame drivers for mechanical failures of the car.


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:12 am 
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1. Vettel
2. Alonso
3. Ricciardo
4. Bottas
5. Hulkenberg
6. Ocon
7. Hamilton
8. Verstappen
9. Ocon
10. Kimi


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 Post subject: Re: Top 10 so far
PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:48 am 
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oz_karter wrote:
1. Vettel
2. Alonso
3. Ricciardo
4. Bottas
5. Hulkenberg
6. Ocon
7. Hamilton
8. Verstappen
9. Ocon
10. Kimi


Ocon's having a hell of a season.
You are of course entitled to your opinion but I don't see how you could argue that Bottas has been so much better than Hamilton when every indicator one could use would suggest otherwise.


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