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Should Hungary be Removed from the F1 Season?
Yes- No passing is possible, get rid of it. 34%  34%  [ 18 ]
No- Keep the track on the calendar. 66%  66%  [ 35 ]
Total votes : 53
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:29 pm 
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Seeing today's race truly emphasized how utterly hopeless Hungary is as a track. Two cars were distinctly faster than their teammate, yet were unable to do anything about it. Hamilton had to get team orders to get by Bottas and once he was ahead, drove away to the tune of over 5 seconds. Kimi was clearly faster than Vettel, riding less than a second behind him for virtually the entire second half of the race.

I dont think that you can actually have a race, a proper race, at a track where passing is impossible, unless you are 20% or more faster than the car in front of you. That's why we see back markers able to pass but not the top teams. They are much much closer in performance.

So, keep this track on the calendar? If so, why??


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:32 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Seeing today's race truly emphasized how utterly hopeless Hungary is as a track. Two cars were distinctly faster than their teammate, yet were unable to do anything about it. Hamilton had to get team orders to get by Bottas and once he was ahead, drove away to the tune of over 5 seconds. Kimi was clearly faster than Vettel, riding less than a second behind him for virtually the entire second half of the race.

I dont think that you can actually have a race, a proper race, at a track where passing is impossible, unless you are 20% or more faster than the car in front of you. That's why we see back markers able to pass but not the top teams. They are much much closer in performance.

So, keep this track on the calendar? If so, why??


Verstappen, who was clearly faster than Bottas failed to make an impression on him.
Today's race was very boring but I think it is also because of the cars and the inability to follow.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:36 pm 
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Pullrod wrote:

Today's race was very boring but I think it is also because of the cars and the inability to follow.


We see passing at other tracks, so you cannot claim that today's snoozefest is because of the above reasons.

Had Vettel not had a serious issue, there would have been no hope at all of any passing at the top positions.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:45 pm 
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We've been treated to great races at the Hungaroring in recent years, with 2014 probably still being my favourite of the hybrid era. It's too much of a knee-jerk reaction just because we had one dull race here.

The track layout is superb, with wheel to wheel racing all the way up to turn 4 and sometimes into the chicane later on. Overtaking is difficult, yes, but the action we did see was very exciting. Alonso and Sainz and Hulkenberg and Magnussen were great to watch. I'd rather sacrifice a lack of overtaking for the occasional track that's fun to watch and old school.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:48 pm 
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Seen some decent races here but the track doesn't seem to suit the 2017.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:11 pm 
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I like the track and I liked the race. Admittedly the tension with Vettel's issues and the Mercedes catching probably helped make it interesting, still I enjoyed it and I've enjoyed the recent races here a lot so I see no reason for it to be dropped.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:13 pm 
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What? Why? This circuit has had alot of good races!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Maybe the 2017 cars don't help but I think it's more that it's just a bad track. Like Monaco without the scenery. It has always been near-impossible to overtake here. I remember in 1990 Senna was all over Boutsen's gearbox for the entire race and didn't manage to pass him.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:25 pm 
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I guess boring races are more appreciated than I thought!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:31 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
I guess boring races are more appreciated than I thought!


Should we dump every after it doesn't produce a great race?

Hungary has produced some fantastic races in the last 20 years. No track is going to produce a classic every year.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:40 pm 
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Hungary has sometimes had good races, but due to other factors like accidents, safety cars, etc. The track in itself, while being one of my favourites to drive in video games, is horrible for racing.

I'll summarise all the races I've watched here:

2016 - Boring.

2015 - Hamilton was in a bad state before the start, because he was at a movie set the night before. Yeah, a real professional. Rosberg was inept at racecraft and crashed with Ricciardo. Vettel won, in an emotional win because Bianchi had just died. But no actual racing for the lead.

2014 - A rare race for the lead, due to a safety car mess. Ricciardo overtook Alonso, who brilliantly almost won on old tyres.

2013 - Hamilton got pole, Vettel was faster, couldn't overtake, horrible snoozefest.

2012 - Hamilton pole to win, horrible snoozefest with no overtaking.

2011 - Very exciting, due to rain, which is very rare here. Button overtook Hamilton and won.

2010 - Horrible snoozefest. The only excitement being Vettel trying to help Webber during a safety car period, but messing it up and getting a penalty, and coming 3rd.

2009 - Horrible snoozefest. Hamilton wins.

2008 - Snoozefest. Massa was winning, engine failure 3 laps from the end gives Kovalainen his only joke of a victory. No racing.

2007 - Hamilton wins from pole, zero racing. Snoozefest, I fell asleep, fell into a pool, still didn't wake up, and drowned and died.

2006 - The first time in 2 decades that it rained in Hungary. Alonso put in a legendary drive only for a loose wheel to give him a DNF. Some great racing.

2005 - Raikkonen wins snoozefest.

2004 - Schumacher wins snoozefest.

2003 - Alonso dominates snoozefest. No racing, only excitement being Schumacher's Bridgestones commiting Harakiri.

2002 - No racing no overtaking snoozefest.

2001 - No racing no overtaking snoozefest.


Except the two times it's races here in 3 decades, and a few badly timed safety cars, or a hungover Hamilton, this circuit provides so, so mind-numbingly dull dry races. Today, my casually- watching friends told me the race was painfully boring to watch. As an avid, nutcase F1 fan, I was surprised. I found it quite interesting, because of Vettel's problems.

Imagine, if the races some of us hardcore fans find reasonably okay are painfully dull for casual viewers, then how were those races that I found to be snoozefests?!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:53 pm 
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IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Hungary has sometimes had good races, but due to other factors like accidents, safety cars, etc. The track in itself, while being one of my favourites to drive in video games, is horrible for racing.

I'll summarise all the races I've watched here:

2016 - Boring.

2015 - Hamilton was in a bad state before the start, because he was at a movie set the night before. Yeah, a real professional. Rosberg was inept at racecraft and crashed with Ricciardo. Vettel won, in an emotional win because Bianchi had just died. But no actual racing for the lead.

2014 - A rare race for the lead, due to a safety car mess. Ricciardo overtook Alonso, who brilliantly almost won on old tyres.

2013 - Hamilton got pole, Vettel was faster, couldn't overtake, horrible snoozefest.

2012 - Hamilton pole to win, horrible snoozefest with no overtaking.

2011 - Very exciting, due to rain, which is very rare here. Button overtook Hamilton and won.

2010 - Horrible snoozefest. The only excitement being Vettel trying to help Webber during a safety car period, but messing it up and getting a penalty, and coming 3rd.

2009 - Horrible snoozefest. Hamilton wins.

2008 - Snoozefest. Massa was winning, engine failure 3 laps from the end gives Kovalainen his only joke of a victory. No racing.

2007 - Hamilton wins from pole, zero racing. Snoozefest, I fell asleep, fell into a pool, still didn't wake up, and drowned and died.

2006 - The first time in 2 decades that it rained in Hungary. Alonso put in a legendary drive only for a loose wheel to give him a DNF. Some great racing.

2005 - Raikkonen wins snoozefest.

2004 - Schumacher wins snoozefest.

2003 - Alonso dominates snoozefest. No racing, only excitement being Schumacher's Bridgestones commiting Harakiri.

2002 - No racing no overtaking snoozefest.

2001 - No racing no overtaking snoozefest.


Except the two times it's races here in 3 decades, and a few badly timed safety cars, or a hungover Hamilton, this circuit provides so, so mind-numbingly dull dry races. Today, my casually- watching friends told me the race was painfully boring to watch. As an avid, nutcase F1 fan, I was surprised. I found it quite interesting, because of Vettel's problems.

Imagine, if the races some of us hardcore fans find reasonably okay are painfully dull for casual viewers, then how were those races that I found to be snoozefests?!


I found a lot of your "snoozefest's" very entertaining. There's a lot more to be excited about than overtaking.

Like 2003 - A new superstar arrives and becomes the youngest winner of all time. How does that not excite you?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:10 pm 
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I remember dreading the Hungarian GP weekend as a kid. But I've grown to admire it. Having had the pleasure of attending the 2015 race means I'm all for keeping it forever. And I enjoyed today's race

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:29 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
I guess boring races are more appreciated than I thought!


Should we dump every after it doesn't produce a great race?

Hungary has produced some fantastic races in the last 20 years. No track is going to produce a classic every year.


I thought the same as the bit I have put in bold. It seems that that is what some want....

I really don't mind some tracks not being as interesting as others. It makes them different. This one being more of a challenge to overtake makes it different. Just because it is sometimes boring doesn't mean it always will be. I really didn't like the criticism Baku got last year. I was pretty sure that everyone would change their mined if different things happened in the race which they did. There are several tracks that I don't like. I don't like Monaco. I usually don't find the races that interesting but the track layout is so unique that that makes the difference for me. I seem to like many on the newer tracks that others are not as keen on like Russia and Baku. We need to see more races rather than just seeing one one time and dropping it. Same with this race in Hungary. We could have a chaotic race like Baku this year in Hungary 2018. No need to get rid of any track due to in not being interesting. If enough people go to watch and it gets the money it needs, there is no point at all dropping it no matter if some find it dull.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:30 pm 
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IMO the base problem is not the track but the cars. And here we go back to a familiar theme, the aero makes it hard for cars to get close and manufacture a pass. How many times has this been discussed, how many different solutions proposed, and how may years has it been a stumbling block?

Every so often the FIA throws weak attempts to solve the problem of the inability for cars to run close together, and and the best that has happened was DRS, a band aid, and not a real solution.

As far as cars attacking and changing positions the race was boring. But almost all of them are.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:35 pm 
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IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Hungary has sometimes had good races, but due to other factors like accidents, safety cars, etc. The track in itself, while being one of my favourites to drive in video games, is horrible for racing.

I'll summarise all the races I've watched here:

2016 - Boring.

2015 - Hamilton was in a bad state before the start, because he was at a movie set the night before. Yeah, a real professional. Rosberg was inept at racecraft and crashed with Ricciardo. Vettel won, in an emotional win because Bianchi had just died. But no actual racing for the lead.

2014 - A rare race for the lead, due to a safety car mess. Ricciardo overtook Alonso, who brilliantly almost won on old tyres.

2013 - Hamilton got pole, Vettel was faster, couldn't overtake, horrible snoozefest.

2012 - Hamilton pole to win, horrible snoozefest with no overtaking.

2011 - Very exciting, due to rain, which is very rare here. Button overtook Hamilton and won.

2010 - Horrible snoozefest. The only excitement being Vettel trying to help Webber during a safety car period, but messing it up and getting a penalty, and coming 3rd.

2009 - Horrible snoozefest. Hamilton wins.

2008 - Snoozefest. Massa was winning, engine failure 3 laps from the end gives Kovalainen his only joke of a victory. No racing.

2007 - Hamilton wins from pole, zero racing. Snoozefest, I fell asleep, fell into a pool, still didn't wake up, and drowned and died.

2006 - The first time in 2 decades that it rained in Hungary. Alonso put in a legendary drive only for a loose wheel to give him a DNF. Some great racing.

2005 - Raikkonen wins snoozefest.

2004 - Schumacher wins snoozefest.

2003 - Alonso dominates snoozefest. No racing, only excitement being Schumacher's Bridgestones commiting Harakiri.

2002 - No racing no overtaking snoozefest.

2001 - No racing no overtaking snoozefest.


Except the two times it's races here in 3 decades, and a few badly timed safety cars, or a hungover Hamilton, this circuit provides so, so mind-numbingly dull dry races. Today, my casually- watching friends told me the race was painfully boring to watch. As an avid, nutcase F1 fan, I was surprised. I found it quite interesting, because of Vettel's problems.

Imagine, if the races some of us hardcore fans find reasonably okay are painfully dull for casual viewers, then how were those races that I found to be snoozefests?!

If you find that amount of these races in Hungary that dull, then just why do you watch it? It really looks like you would rather not. Just because you find them boring doesn't mean most others don't really like it. From the amount of fans there this weekend, it looks like they thought it was well worth going to a track that you think has been a snoozefest most races....


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:37 pm 
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If we rate races on overtaking between the top teams then most circuits would be dropped including Budapest. The 2017 cars don't help at all and having one stopper races is not good.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Why should it be easy to overtake at every track? If we'd have got an overtake in the first 4 positions today we might have been talking about it for years.

Having said that. Why is it so hard for the FIA to realise that pratting about with the aero rules isn't solving the problem, when if they'd open up the floor to development we could have fast cars that have a better chance of following each other.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:43 pm 
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Herb wrote:
Why should it be easy to overtake at every track? If we'd have got an overtake in the first 4 positions today we might have been talking about it for years.

Having said that. Why is it so hard for the FIA to realise that pratting about with the aero rules isn't solving the problem, when if they'd open up the floor to development we could have fast cars that have a better chance of following each other.


You should at least get an oppurtunity to be able to overtake. That rarely happens between the top teams unless different tyre strategies. Today there was never going to be an oppurtunity let alone an overtake, once in the dirty air it's game over.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:05 pm 
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DrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
2015 - Hamilton was in a bad state before the start, because he was at a movie set the night before. Yeah, a real professional. Rosberg was inept at racecraft and crashed with Ricciardo. Vettel won, in an emotional win because Bianchi had just died. But no actual racing for the lead.

2014 - A rare race for the lead, due to a safety car mess. Ricciardo overtook Alonso, who brilliantly almost won on old tyres.

2011 - Very exciting, due to rain, which is very rare here. Button overtook Hamilton and won.

2008 - Snoozefest. Massa was winning, engine failure 3 laps from the end gives Kovalainen his only joke of a victory. No racing.

2006 - The first time in 2 decades that it rained in Hungary. Alonso put in a legendary drive only for a loose wheel to give him a DNF. Some great racing.

2003 - Alonso dominates snoozefest. No racing, only excitement being Schumacher's Bridgestones commiting Harakiri.

These were all great races. I would add 1997 & 1998

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:27 pm 
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Hungaroring has historically been a very poor circuit for racing, but in recent years I feel it's redeemed itself, it's been one of the better races on the calendar for the last few years.

I think there's two reasons for that: one is that it is truly difficult to overtake - a massive flaw in the past but in the modern era of boring drs assisted drivebys it is great to finally see drivers getting a just reward for dragging a slower car into a good track position where they actually have a chance of defending it. And the overtakes we do get are generally very spectacular.

Secondly, in the hybrid era in particular, so much of the art of F1 has been lost in favour of who has the best engine. It's been great to see McLaren back on the front foot today, or Red Bull in recent years, showing that good drivers and a good chassis still matter at some circuits and it's not only about the power unit.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:29 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
DrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
2015 - Hamilton was in a bad state before the start, because he was at a movie set the night before. Yeah, a real professional. Rosberg was inept at racecraft and crashed with Ricciardo. Vettel won, in an emotional win because Bianchi had just died. But no actual racing for the lead.

2014 - A rare race for the lead, due to a safety car mess. Ricciardo overtook Alonso, who brilliantly almost won on old tyres.

2011 - Very exciting, due to rain, which is very rare here. Button overtook Hamilton and won.

2008 - Snoozefest. Massa was winning, engine failure 3 laps from the end gives Kovalainen his only joke of a victory. No racing.

2006 - The first time in 2 decades that it rained in Hungary. Alonso put in a legendary drive only for a loose wheel to give him a DNF. Some great racing.

2003 - Alonso dominates snoozefest. No racing, only excitement being Schumacher's Bridgestones commiting Harakiri.

These were all great races. I would add 1997 & 1998



+1 to that. Hungary 98 remains one of the most awe inspiring races I have ever witnessed.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:48 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
I guess boring races are more appreciated than I thought!


Should we dump every after it doesn't produce a great race?


Did I say that? No. Then FFS, why bring it up?
mikeyg123 wrote:
Hungary has produced some fantastic races in the last 20 years. No track is going to produce a classic every year.


You know as well as I do that it takes some extraordinary event to make Hungary an exciting race. Rain, blown engine, etc.

No less than Alonso and Hamilton said that passing at this track is impossible. Repeat, impossible.

Is that a quality you appreciate at a race track?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:51 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
I guess boring races are more appreciated than I thought!


Should we dump every after it doesn't produce a great race?

Hungary has produced some fantastic races in the last 20 years. No track is going to produce a classic every year.


I thought the same as the bit I have put in bold. It seems that that is what some want....



OK, now two people have serious reading comprehension issues.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:54 pm 
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Herb wrote:
Why should it be easy to overtake at every track?


If you actually listened to drivers like Hamilton, Alonso, and many others you would NOT hear them say it is difficult to pass in Hungary. Instead, you'd hear them say it is virtually impossible. Big difference.

Herb wrote:
If we'd have got an overtake in the first 4 positions today we might have been talking about it for years.


Yep. We would. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:56 pm 
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optimisteprime wrote:
Hungaroring has historically been a very poor circuit for racing, but in recent years I feel it's redeemed itself, it's been one of the better races on the calendar for the last few years.

I think there's two reasons for that: one is that it is truly difficult to overtake - a massive flaw in the past but in the modern era of boring drs assisted drivebys it is great to finally see drivers getting a just reward for dragging a slower car into a good track position where they actually have a chance of defending it. And the overtakes we do get are generally very spectacular.

Secondly, in the hybrid era in particular, so much of the art of F1 has been lost in favour of who has the best engine. It's been great to see McLaren back on the front foot today, or Red Bull in recent years, showing that good drivers and a good chassis still matter at some circuits and it's not only about the power unit.


If the Honda engine were as good as the Mercedes or Ferrari, Alonso would be right up at the front NOT passing any cars with his excellent chassis.

Is that a good quality for an F1 race track?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:00 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Herb wrote:
Why should it be easy to overtake at every track? If we'd have got an overtake in the first 4 positions today we might have been talking about it for years.

Having said that. Why is it so hard for the FIA to realise that pratting about with the aero rules isn't solving the problem, when if they'd open up the floor to development we could have fast cars that have a better chance of following each other.


You should at least get an oppurtunity to be able to overtake. That rarely happens between the top teams unless different tyre strategies. Today there was never going to be an oppurtunity let alone an overtake, once in the dirty air it's game over.


Yes, my point exactly.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:13 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Herb wrote:
Why should it be easy to overtake at every track?


If you actually listened to drivers like Hamilton, Alonso, and many others you would NOT hear them say it is difficult to pass in Hungary. Instead, you'd hear them say it is virtually impossible. Big difference.

Herb wrote:
If we'd have got an overtake in the first 4 positions today we might have been talking about it for years.


Yep. We would. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.


Except it does happen occasionally here, so it's not impossible. Nothing to do with insanity. There were overtakes further down the field today.

I didn't enjoy today's race. But to jump to scrapping it on the back of a boring race is stupid. We may as well drop Barcelona, Silverstone, Monaco and most other tracks, they've all had boring races.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Herb wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Herb wrote:
Why should it be easy to overtake at every track?


If you actually listened to drivers like Hamilton, Alonso, and many others you would NOT hear them say it is difficult to pass in Hungary. Instead, you'd hear them say it is virtually impossible. Big difference.

Herb wrote:
If we'd have got an overtake in the first 4 positions today we might have been talking about it for years.


Yep. We would. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.


Except it does happen occasionally here, so it's not impossible. Nothing to do with insanity. There were overtakes further down the field today.

I didn't enjoy today's race. But to jump to scrapping it on the back of a boring race is stupid. We may as well drop Barcelona, Silverstone, Monaco and most other tracks, they've all had boring races.


Overtaking down the field happens because there are more dramatic differences between the cars.

Again, is it a good thing to have the top drivers declaring (and then proving) that it is impossible, absolutely impossible to pass at an F1 race track?

And personally, I would easily get rid of Monaco and a few other tracks. Silverstone has enough passing to justify its place on the calendar.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:54 pm 
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Someone bitches about Hungary every time there's a poor race, but the truth is that Hungary has produced more exciting and 'classic' races than most of the more-beloved tracks in recent years.

I voted for it to stay, of course. There needs to be variety on the calendar, and Hungary provides that. F1 is not NASCAR, and passing is not the be-all and end-all.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:30 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
I guess boring races are more appreciated than I thought!


Should we dump every after it doesn't produce a great race?

Hungary has produced some fantastic races in the last 20 years. No track is going to produce a classic every year.


I thought the same as the bit I have put in bold. It seems that that is what some want....



OK, now two people have serious reading comprehension issues.

I'm really struggling to understand what you are getting at. Did I misunderstand mikeyg123's post? I thought that was just indicating that it seemed that some people want to dump a race just because it has had a few unexciting ones. I probably shouldn't have quoted your post in this as I wasn't referring to you as one of those people. I was replying to mikeyg123's post. It does certainly seem that some people would prefer not to watch this race. Sorry if we misunderstood each other. I think there are a few different ways of reading your post that mikeyg123 replied to. I didn't quite understand it so I wasn't actually replying to that. But as I said, I shouldn't have included it in the quote in that case. So my mistake there.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:11 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
I guess boring races are more appreciated than I thought!


Should we dump every after it doesn't produce a great race?

Hungary has produced some fantastic races in the last 20 years. No track is going to produce a classic every year.


I thought the same as the bit I have put in bold. It seems that that is what some want....



OK, now two people have serious reading comprehension issues.

I'm really struggling to understand what you are getting at. Did I misunderstand mikeyg123's post? I thought that was just indicating that it seemed that some people want to dump a race just because it has had a few unexciting ones. I probably shouldn't have quoted your post in this as I wasn't referring to you as one of those people. I was replying to mikeyg123's post. It does certainly seem that some people would prefer not to watch this race. Sorry if we misunderstood each other. I think there are a few different ways of reading your post that mikeyg123 replied to. I didn't quite understand it so I wasn't actually replying to that. But as I said, I shouldn't have included it in the quote in that case. So my mistake there.


Mikey is incorrect because I never suggested dropping any race except Hungary. His off the wall extrapolation of my question shows a deep misunderstanding of my post or some other form of confusion.

What generated my question was the fact that I heard several of the best drivers in the world saying that they cannot pass on this track. If that is true, and racing history indicates that it is, then what is the point of having Hungary as part of the F1 calendar? Don't the fans deserve a real sporting event?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:18 am 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
What generated my question was the fact that I heard several of the best drivers in the world saying that they cannot pass on this track. If that is true, and racing history indicates that it is, then what is the point of having Hungary as part of the F1 calendar? Don't the fans deserve a real sporting event?


My interpretation of this statement is that track types be selected to suit the characteristics of Formula One cars. Oh wait, that has been in the works for awhile, courtesy of Tilke designed tracks.

IMO just select tracks, and have the teams sort it out. NASCAR has their cookie cutter 1 1/2 mile ovals, do we want to see all Formula One tracks follow a specific pattern?

Personally, I desire to see the season populated by various track types, each one a different challenge for the car designs. Racing should never be easy, it should be a battle of dealing with challenges and difficulties. And we saw this today in Hungary, even the race winner had to deal with problems that could have easily cost him the win.

Superficially the race itself was boring, very little changes of position up front. But in closer detail, each driver had a difficult race, each driver had to deal with many obstacles, and the fans got to see some very skilled driving on display. Everyone and all the cars were pushed to the limit. There was a small segment on the TV steam where they focused on different team members nervously tapping their feet. That is because everyone was fully aware how tight everything was, that anyone's fortunes could have been upset at any moment.

Make the WDC worth something, that in order to win it a driver must have more than just the fastest car, but that the driver must overcome very difficult and varied challenges.

And one more thing, I project that next year the Hungaroring will be sold out.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:22 am 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
No less than Alonso and Hamilton said that passing at this track is impossible. Repeat, impossible.

Alonso overtook Sainz so he proved himself to be wrong

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:28 am 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Seeing today's race truly emphasized how utterly hopeless Hungary is as a track. Two cars were distinctly faster than their teammate, yet were unable to do anything about it. Hamilton had to get team orders to get by Bottas and once he was ahead, drove away to the tune of over 5 seconds. Kimi was clearly faster than Vettel, riding less than a second behind him for virtually the entire second half of the race.

I dont think that you can actually have a race, a proper race, at a track where passing is impossible, unless you are 20% or more faster than the car in front of you. That's why we see back markers able to pass but not the top teams. They are much much closer in performance.

So, keep this track on the calendar? If so, why??


If this is the reason to drop Hungary as a track, then surely Monaco must be dropped to, wouldn't you agree?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:49 am 
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Blake wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Seeing today's race truly emphasized how utterly hopeless Hungary is as a track. Two cars were distinctly faster than their teammate, yet were unable to do anything about it. Hamilton had to get team orders to get by Bottas and once he was ahead, drove away to the tune of over 5 seconds. Kimi was clearly faster than Vettel, riding less than a second behind him for virtually the entire second half of the race.

I dont think that you can actually have a race, a proper race, at a track where passing is impossible, unless you are 20% or more faster than the car in front of you. That's why we see back markers able to pass but not the top teams. They are much much closer in performance.

So, keep this track on the calendar? If so, why??


If this is the reason to drop Hungary as a track, then surely Monaco must be dropped to, wouldn't you agree?


He hates Monaco as well.

Personally I love both. 20 tracks on the calender leaves plenty of scope for unique challenges.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:53 am 
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Hungary is a distinctly different rack from a lot of others on the calendar, and it provides a differents sort of excitement than some. Sure there's not much passing, but that's not the be-all and end-all of the race, and it can still be tense and close without it. I hope to see it on the track for a good long time to come.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:34 am 
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Dump it and replace with a Tilkedrome that offers more or less the same challenges and characteristics of the other ones. 8)

I like Hungary, for the same reason I like Monza, Monaco, Baku, Singapore and Interlagos. It gives a different challenge and similar to Monaco it puts an emphasis on track position. It is one of the tracks where the art of defensive driving can be fairly rewarded.l

Would I like to see a season of Hungaroring races - no. However I appreciate a different challenge from the typical modern F1 track.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:37 am 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Seeing today's race truly emphasized how utterly hopeless Hungary is as a track.
Don't blame the track for the state of F1, Herb.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:45 am 
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I've always hated the Hungaroring, but at least it's something different.


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