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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:23 am 
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Both McLarens in the points. What is the last time that happened?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:27 am 
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Alex53 wrote:
Both McLarens in the points. What is the last time that happened?


USA 2016.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:47 am 
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f1madman wrote:
Nope still a boy doing lame Egyptian walk up to the podium :/

... I believe that it is was that later part which called for :/ , rather than the former one. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:50 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Alex53 wrote:
Both McLarens in the points. What is the last time that happened?


USA 2016.


Good they scored some points here. Next 2 races could be a little demoralizing for them!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:33 am 
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Not the best race of the season to say the least.

The lock up from Max causing a collision with Ricciardo was very unfortunate. It was a mistake that ended very sour for Ricciardo. These things happen although that is not what you want to hear at that moment when you sre the driver being taken out.

I can imagine the frustration.

This race however showed a positive side from Max in being fair about his mistake. It also showed a different side from Ricciardo. Flipping him the bird while Max was driving behind the safety car is not something that is going to make things better. It is still in the heath of the moment, let's leave it at that. But undoubtly people would have called it immature if Max had done this. Shows again how blindsighted some people are.

The real problem is that the FIA should be more consistent when it comes to penalty's. If they work on that, it will be all for the better.

Max and Ricciardo will sort things out. It's best not to take it to the media and maybe that is something Ricciardo can learn from because everybody can make some improvements, not just the youngsters like Max.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:39 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Prema wrote:
Yes, I do hear you. I am only wondering about what that exactly caused Bottas drop those 5 sec behind. Whether he gave his best and simply didn't have that enough pace to keep in touch, or he was also demoraliserad after the switch being made. I feel that he himself did not expect the place was to be given back and hence did not bother. It happened once already, if I am not mistaken.

They actually asked Bottas to stay within 2 seconds of Hamilton I guess to make the switchback easy but Bottas couldn't do it, in the end the switchback was a bit dicey in respect to how close Verstappen was.


Then they actually needed not to perform the switch if Bottas was assumed to be able to keep the pace up to Hamilton's who was giving all he had in attempt to close on Ferraris. Of course Bottas couldn't do it. The moment the switch was done, Bottas was destined to drop behind; unlike Hamilton he did not really race anybody anymore but his own self.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:50 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
"Earlier in the year" - you mean when his team pitted him from the lead into traffic for no other reason than to get the golden boy ahead?

;) :lol:

But yes, the perfect submissive teamplayer. That's why he'll get a new contract.


Take a look at the lap times from Monaco. Kimi ran into traffic at first after his pit stop, cleared it within one lap, and then he ran four consecutive fast laps (two 1:16s, two 1:15s) that should have kept him in the lead. Nobody predicted that Vettel could run faster laps on very old tires. Kimi was running 1:17s before he pitted and he spent the entire race in clean air, unlike Vettel. I really wanted for Kimi to win that race, but the data shows clearly that Vettel seized it from him through better pace.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:54 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
First you push the driver out, and than you tell him to undertake the suction of certain body parts. I am not impressed with that. Magnussen should not be proud of it.


That didn't paint Mag in a good light at all.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:00 am 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
The lock up from Max causing a collision with Ricciardo was very unfortunate.


That's the understatement of the year. It wasn't 'unfortunate', it was moronic. At least he got punished this time. Maybe if he had been punished for his many transgressions in the past, he'd be a little more careful.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:01 am 
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That is a bit harsh don't you think?

It was a racing incident as far as most people are concerned. The 10 second penalty and two points on the license will have zero impact on Max. If you believe it will have than you don't know the drivers mind. Max got the penalty because Ricciardo was unable to continue. We can give many examples of situations that were worse than this one where the driver got away with a far less severe penalty.

I don't hold a grudge to any driver in F1. It feels like you have one with Max. It is possible of course that you like another driver better but it cloud your judgement.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:14 am 
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SmoothRide wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
First you push the driver out, and than you tell him to undertake the suction of certain body parts. I am not impressed with that. Magnussen should not be proud of it.


That didn't paint Mag in a good light at all.
He should be summoned to Paris, to explain why he uses such language. Children watch F1, and they should never be subjected to such talk.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:16 am 
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Fiki wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
First you push the driver out, and than you tell him to undertake the suction of certain body parts. I am not impressed with that. Magnussen should not be proud of it.


That didn't paint Mag in a good light at all.
He should be summoned to Paris, to explain why he uses such language. Children watch F1, and they should never be subjected to such talk.

The word 'balls' counts as bad language?

If it's poor language that's the issue then it's Hulkenberg that should be called to Paris as you put it, he called Magnussen an a**hole in an interview just after the exchange.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:21 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
First you push the driver out, and than you tell him to undertake the suction of certain body parts. I am not impressed with that. Magnussen should not be proud of it.


That didn't paint Mag in a good light at all.
He should be summoned to Paris, to explain why he uses such language. Children watch F1, and they should never be subjected to such talk.

The word 'balls' counts as bad language?

If it's poor language that's the issue then it's Hulkenberg that should be called to Paris as you put it, he called Magnussen an a**hole in an interview just after the exchange.
Indeed, both should appear before the FIA. And yes, it is bad language. Inexcusably bad language.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:25 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
First you push the driver out, and than you tell him to undertake the suction of certain body parts. I am not impressed with that. Magnussen should not be proud of it.


That didn't paint Mag in a good light at all.
He should be summoned to Paris, to explain why he uses such language. Children watch F1, and they should never be subjected to such talk.

The word 'balls' counts as bad language?

If it's poor language that's the issue then it's Hulkenberg that should be called to Paris as you put it, he called Magnussen an a**hole in an interview just after the exchange.


Do you really think the word 'balls', sans context, is the issue here?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:29 am 
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Fiki wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
First you push the driver out, and than you tell him to undertake the suction of certain body parts. I am not impressed with that. Magnussen should not be proud of it.


That didn't paint Mag in a good light at all.
He should be summoned to Paris, to explain why he uses such language. Children watch F1, and they should never be subjected to such talk.

The word 'balls' counts as bad language?

If it's poor language that's the issue then it's Hulkenberg that should be called to Paris as you put it, he called Magnussen an a**hole in an interview just after the exchange.
Indeed, both should appear before the FIA. And yes, it is bad language. Inexcusably bad language.


Usually bad words or the quotes such as the one said by Magnussen get beeped in articles or recorded interviews but there's no time to beep them in live interviews.

Hulk was understandably upset as he was poised to finish well in the race. His entire weekend was great. Once he good squeezed out on the grass, it hurt his car. And since this is the last race before the summer break, he wanted to finish on a high.

I don't think we've heard the last of this incident.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:31 am 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
He's basically sold his sole for the dollar.

He's almost a hundred points behind Vettel in the championship. If he'd taken 7 points off Seb - or more, since Hamilton probably would have overtaken VET in that case! - it would have been the action of a mercenary, not a team player. His time to fight for the championship and prove himself against Vettel was earlier in the year, when he was still in the fight.

I respect what Kimi did, and I think it was clear to everyone that he had the pace to fight Seb but didn't do it.

He's had a few dodgy strategies since early in the season, I'm sure Kimi is not that stupid after all he did question the strategies at the time, but basically he seems more than happy so long as the dollar is good.


So that is the direction we are going to take now, is it. Kimi the greedy driver only in it for the "dollar".
:lol: :lol:

I wonder how much his critics would do for millions and millions and millions of dollars? Most likely a whole lot more of "undesireable actions" than Kimi is being accused of, I suspect!
;)

Quote:
a true racing driver is motivated to win races

additonal response. NOW, Kimi is not a "true racer". Damn, those sour grapes must taste bad, pokerman.

Kimi showed he was all for the dollar when he turned down the McLaren drive for 2010 because he would get paid just the same not to race, this was a car that was the fastest in the hands of Hamilton in the second half of the 2009 season.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:31 am 
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SmoothRide wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
First you push the driver out, and than you tell him to undertake the suction of certain body parts. I am not impressed with that. Magnussen should not be proud of it.


That didn't paint Mag in a good light at all.
He should be summoned to Paris, to explain why he uses such language. Children watch F1, and they should never be subjected to such talk.

The word 'balls' counts as bad language?

If it's poor language that's the issue then it's Hulkenberg that should be called to Paris as you put it, he called Magnussen an a**hole in an interview just after the exchange.


Do you really think the word 'balls', sans context, is the issue here?

I don't really see an issue at all to be honest.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:33 am 
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Rockie wrote:
My highlight of the race was Max taking Daniel out, not because I don't like Daniel, but because I have always had the feeling Max was a first lap disaster waiting to happen.

Luckily he took his team mate out of the race, as even his team boss feels it's good he's aggressive and all, moving under braking and the lot finally it has come back to bite them and this really stung as it was at their best track where they could have had a serious points haul.

Good job by Ferrari particularly Vettel with the steering issues, and the Iceman as well for turning up and being on the pace.

As for Mercedes the quicker Hamilton gets on top of the car and stop ending up behind Bottas on weekends when the car is not dominant the better for him.

Alonso good drive both Mclaren and Honda came good, and yes Honda came good went the distance without reliability issues or being thirsty, still down on power but there's improvement.

It's sort of funny that before the race Ricciardo stated that Red Bull were not going to take any prisoners, I guess Verstappen over read that script?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:35 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Usually bad words or the quotes such as the one said by Magnussen get beeped in articles or recorded interviews but there's no time to beep them in live interviews.

Hulk was understandably upset as he was poised to finish well in the race. His entire weekend was great. Once he good squeezed out on the grass, it hurt his car. And since this is the last race before the summer break, he wanted to finish on a high.

I don't think we've heard the last of this incident.
I hope we haven't, where the language is concerned. As for running people off the track, the FIA turned a blind eye when Hamilton did it, when Schumacher did it, and probably a number of other "significant" drivers. That is an FIA responsibility, and one which they should be kept aware of. I would love to meet and discuss such things with drivers like Derek Warwick. But the language doesn't need discussing.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:36 am 
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Prema wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Prema wrote:
Yes, I do hear you. I am only wondering about what that exactly caused Bottas drop those 5 sec behind. Whether he gave his best and simply didn't have that enough pace to keep in touch, or he was also demoraliserad after the switch being made. I feel that he himself did not expect the place was to be given back and hence did not bother. It happened once already, if I am not mistaken.

They actually asked Bottas to stay within 2 seconds of Hamilton I guess to make the switchback easy but Bottas couldn't do it, in the end the switchback was a bit dicey in respect to how close Verstappen was.


Then they actually needed not to perform the switch if Bottas was assumed to be able to keep the pace up to Hamilton's who was giving all he had in attempt to close on Ferraris. Of course Bottas couldn't do it. The moment the switch was done, Bottas was destined to drop behind; unlike Hamilton he did not really race anybody anymore but his own self.

I can't make sense of what you are saying, you don't think it was worth a try for the faster Mercedes to put pressure on the Ferraris?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:43 am 
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SmoothRide wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
"Earlier in the year" - you mean when his team pitted him from the lead into traffic for no other reason than to get the golden boy ahead?

;) :lol:

But yes, the perfect submissive teamplayer. That's why he'll get a new contract.


Take a look at the lap times from Monaco. Kimi ran into traffic at first after his pit stop, cleared it within one lap, and then he ran four consecutive fast laps (two 1:16s, two 1:15s) that should have kept him in the lead. Nobody predicted that Vettel could run faster laps on very old tires. Kimi was running 1:17s before he pitted and he spent the entire race in clean air, unlike Vettel. I really wanted for Kimi to win that race, but the data shows clearly that Vettel seized it from him through better pace.

I don't think anyone is denying that it's just the difference in Vettel being allowed to do that at Monaco and Kimi not in Hungary.

As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:50 am 
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pokerman wrote:

As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.


??? How can you say that the day after team orders did "favour" him? While he eventually gave the position back, team orders did put him in 3rd with a chance to take it to Kimi and maybe Vettel. They gave him well beyond the initial 5 laps he was promised to try to get it Kimi and if we are to believe what has been said, it was Lewis who chose to give the position back to Bottas (though I may be wrong on that part).

So why would you say that Merc "team orders are not going to favour" Hamilton going forward?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:57 am 
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pokerman wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
"Earlier in the year" - you mean when his team pitted him from the lead into traffic for no other reason than to get the golden boy ahead?

;) :lol:

But yes, the perfect submissive teamplayer. That's why he'll get a new contract.


Take a look at the lap times from Monaco. Kimi ran into traffic at first after his pit stop, cleared it within one lap, and then he ran four consecutive fast laps (two 1:16s, two 1:15s) that should have kept him in the lead. Nobody predicted that Vettel could run faster laps on very old tires. Kimi was running 1:17s before he pitted and he spent the entire race in clean air, unlike Vettel. I really wanted for Kimi to win that race, but the data shows clearly that Vettel seized it from him through better pace.

I don't think anyone is denying that it's just the difference in Vettel being allowed to do that at Monaco and Kimi not in Hungary.

As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.


Apparently Kimi was 1.6 seconds quicker on his in lap. Ferrari are not stupid and knew another lap and Kimi would have got the overcut.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:01 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.



As a fan of evidence, facts and reason it's frustrating that this false narrative continues to permeate and carry so much weight amongst those who will back anything that confirms their narrow viewpoint.

We just had a race where:
- Vettel beat his team-mate fair and square
- Hamilton failed to beat his team-mate fair and square
- Ferrari did not interfere in the battle between their drivers, other than supplying Vettel with a malfunctioning car and supplying Raikkonen with a perfect one
- Mercedes did not interfere in the battle between their drivers, other than getting on the radio and telling Bottas he wasn't to be allowed the opportunity to attack the Ferraris and he had to move over and let Lewis try instead.

And the conclusion from all of this is that Vettel benefitted from team orders and Hamilton didn't. I know we live in a post fact world these days, but sometimes it just boggles the mind.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:

As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.


??? How can you say that the day after team orders did "favour" him? While he eventually gave the position back, team orders did put him in 3rd with a chance to take it to Kimi and maybe Vettel. They gave him well beyond the initial 5 laps he was promised to try to get it Kimi and if we are to believe what has been said, it was Lewis who chose to give the position back to Bottas (though I may be wrong on that part).

So why would you say that Merc "team orders are not going to favour" Hamilton going forward?


TBH by the sounds of it Mercedes are going to favour the fastest driver at the time it's needed but Bottas race pace has been his weakest part this season. If there is a time when Bottas is clearly faster and doesn't get the same opportunity then clearly Hamilton is number 1, that time hasn't come yet.
At Ferrari if Kimi is faster or not he won't be favoured. I don't even think this would have happen if he was in the championship hunt or not.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:08 pm 
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SmoothRide wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
First you push the driver out, and than you tell him to undertake the suction of certain body parts. I am not impressed with that. Magnussen should not be proud of it.


That didn't paint Mag in a good light at all.
He should be summoned to Paris, to explain why he uses such language. Children watch F1, and they should never be subjected to such talk.

The word 'balls' counts as bad language?

If it's poor language that's the issue then it's Hulkenberg that should be called to Paris as you put it, he called Magnussen an a**hole in an interview just after the exchange.


Do you really think the word 'balls', sans context, is the issue here?

Magnussen was completely in the wrong on track. But the interview comment was hilarious and I'm glad he said it. Hulk's comment towards him was hilarious as well. Fewer corporate robots, more personalities!

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:10 pm 
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optimisteprime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.



As a fan of evidence, facts and reason it's frustrating that this false narrative continues to permeate and carry so much weight amongst those who will back anything that confirms their narrow viewpoint.

We just had a race where:
- Vettel beat his team-mate fair and square
- Hamilton failed to beat his team-mate fair and square
- Ferrari did not interfere in the battle between their drivers, other than supplying Vettel with a malfunctioning car and supplying Raikkonen with a perfect one
- Mercedes did not interfere in the battle between their drivers, other than getting on the radio and telling Bottas he wasn't to be allowed the opportunity to attack the Ferraris and he had to move over and let Lewis try instead.

And the conclusion from all of this is that Vettel benefitted from team orders and Hamilton didn't. I know we live in a post fact world these days, but sometimes it just boggles the mind.


Ferrari did interfere with there drivers, they didn't allow Kimi to stay out longer because he was putting in fastest sectors and would have got the overcut. This would have put Vettel vulnerable to both Mercs. Every article I read says Ferrari used Kimi to protect Vettel from the Mercs, Kimi would never try an overtake on Vettel, if Kimi was fighting another car at turn 1 after the pitstops he would have fighted harder. Kimi doesn't fight because he knows he is number 2.

Bottas did get his chance to fight the Ferraris but couldn't get close enough, Hamilton was sitting in the dirty air of Bottas and when in free air when 1 second quicker. Then Bottas couldn't keep up with the front 3. Hamilton got his chance and failed so gave the place back. Fair enough.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:10 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:

As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.


??? How can you say that the day after team orders did "favour" him? While he eventually gave the position back, team orders did put him in 3rd with a chance to take it to Kimi and maybe Vettel. They gave him well beyond the initial 5 laps he was promised to try to get it Kimi and if we are to believe what has been said, it was Lewis who chose to give the position back to Bottas (though I may be wrong on that part).

So why would you say that Merc "team orders are not going to favour" Hamilton going forward?


TBH by the sounds of it Mercedes are going to favour the fastest driver at the time it's needed but Bottas race pace has been his weakest part this season. If there is a time when Bottas is clearly faster and doesn't get the same opportunity then clearly Hamilton is number 1, that time hasn't come yet.
At Ferrari if Kimi is faster or not he won't be favoured. I don't even think this would have happen if he was in the championship hunt or not.



That is nonsense. In both China and Monaco Vettel was faster and behind Kimi and he wasn't favoured, he had to race and get ahead himself on merit, just like Kimi was given an opportunity to in Hungary and failed.

Ferrari have been even handed so far - no team orders ever. Mercedes have used team orders in favour of Hamilton multiple times, but I won't disagree that it might possibly true that they might use them in favour of Bottas in some scenarios, even though there is no evidence so far to support that. They did tell Bottas to back off when he was faster than Hamilton at Melbourne but they said that was in order to conserve tyres rather than protect Hamilton, so who can say for sure.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:17 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Magnussen was completely in the wrong on track. But the interview comment was hilarious and I'm glad he said it. Hulk's comment towards him was hilarious as well. Fewer corporate robots, more personalities!
This is one I'm going to have to try to remember. Politeness is now dumped in the category of corporate robotica...

Have you ever seen this? It shows that even in this day and age, being polite has not totally been forgotten.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:19 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Ferrari did interfere with there drivers, they didn't allow Kimi to stay out longer because he was putting in fastest sectors and would have got the overcut. This would have put Vettel vulnerable to both Mercs. Every article I read says Ferrari used Kimi to protect Vettel from the Mercs, Kimi would never try an overtake on Vettel, if Kimi was fighting another car at turn 1 after the pitstops he would have fighted harder. Kimi doesn't fight because he knows he is number 2.

Bottas did get his chance to fight the Ferraris but couldn't get close enough, Hamilton was sitting in the dirty air of Bottas and when in free air when 1 second quicker. Then Bottas couldn't keep up with the front 3. Hamilton got his chance and failed so gave the place back. Fair enough.



I'm pretty sure you're making that up. There is no evidence whatsoever of that. From the lap chart (link posted below), everyone was approx 1 second faster on new tyres. Raikkonen was 1.5 seconds behind Vettel when Seb pitted. That means he would have needed a 2.5 second offset which had absolutely no chance of happening. Vettel, Raikkonen and the Mercedes all came in at around the same time. If the overcut was so powerful why didn't Mercedes due to employ it? If Raikkonen had stayed out much longer he'd have been vulnerable to Bottas, and he had no chance of getting ahead of Vettel on worn tyres.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/07/30/2 ... test-laps/


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:19 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:

That didn't paint Mag in a good light at all.
He should be summoned to Paris, to explain why he uses such language. Children watch F1, and they should never be subjected to such talk.

The word 'balls' counts as bad language?

If it's poor language that's the issue then it's Hulkenberg that should be called to Paris as you put it, he called Magnussen an a**hole in an interview just after the exchange.


Do you really think the word 'balls', sans context, is the issue here?

Magnussen was completely in the wrong on track. But the interview comment was hilarious and I'm glad he said it. Hulk's comment towards him was hilarious as well. Fewer corporate robots, more personalities!

So much this. F1 has done a great job recently of moving away from the dull corporate sport it had become off track. Let's not go back to that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:19 pm 
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optimisteprime wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:

As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.


??? How can you say that the day after team orders did "favour" him? While he eventually gave the position back, team orders did put him in 3rd with a chance to take it to Kimi and maybe Vettel. They gave him well beyond the initial 5 laps he was promised to try to get it Kimi and if we are to believe what has been said, it was Lewis who chose to give the position back to Bottas (though I may be wrong on that part).

So why would you say that Merc "team orders are not going to favour" Hamilton going forward?


TBH by the sounds of it Mercedes are going to favour the fastest driver at the time it's needed but Bottas race pace has been his weakest part this season. If there is a time when Bottas is clearly faster and doesn't get the same opportunity then clearly Hamilton is number 1, that time hasn't come yet.
At Ferrari if Kimi is faster or not he won't be favoured. I don't even think this would have happen if he was in the championship hunt or not.



That is nonsense. In both China and Monaco Vettel was faster and behind Kimi and he wasn't favoured, he had to race and get ahead himself on merit, just like Kimi was given an opportunity to in Hungary and failed.

Ferrari have been even handed so far - no team orders ever. Mercedes have used team orders in favour of Hamilton multiple times, but I won't disagree that it might possibly true that they might use them in favour of Bottas in some scenarios, even though there is no evidence so far to support that. They did tell Bottas to back off when he was faster than Hamilton at Melbourne but they said that was in order to conserve tyres rather than protect Hamilton, so who can say for sure.
Any idea why Räikkönen was called in when he was? Hint: look at what Verstappen did, and listen to what Räikkönen said about it.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:

As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.


??? How can you say that the day after team orders did "favour" him? While he eventually gave the position back, team orders did put him in 3rd with a chance to take it to Kimi and maybe Vettel. They gave him well beyond the initial 5 laps he was promised to try to get it Kimi and if we are to believe what has been said, it was Lewis who chose to give the position back to Bottas (though I may be wrong on that part).

So why would you say that Merc "team orders are not going to favour" Hamilton going forward?

Clearly because he had to give the place back to Bottas so his points were not maximised, whereas with Kimi if he had been allowed the same strategy that Vettel used in Monaco to beat Kimi then Kimi clearly would have won the race quite easily.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Magnussen was completely in the wrong on track. But the interview comment was hilarious and I'm glad he said it. Hulk's comment towards him was hilarious as well. Fewer corporate robots, more personalities!
This is one I'm going to have to try to remember. Politeness is now dumped in the category of corporate robotica...

Have you ever seen this? It shows that even in this day and age, being polite has not totally been forgotten.
Image

I've seen many variations of the theme

That moment was funny. People are talking about it because it was funny. Have you seen Brundle on Twitter saying that Alonso on the deck chair under the podium yesterday was "sad"? And Jenson Button snapped back saying F1 takes itself too seriously? Well this is the same

The highlight of the FE finale was Sebastian Buemi walking up and down the pitlane attacking every driver he thought had wronged him. It was aggressive, it was rude and more than anything else it was very very funny

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:28 pm 
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optimisteprime wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Ferrari did interfere with there drivers, they didn't allow Kimi to stay out longer because he was putting in fastest sectors and would have got the overcut. This would have put Vettel vulnerable to both Mercs. Every article I read says Ferrari used Kimi to protect Vettel from the Mercs, Kimi would never try an overtake on Vettel, if Kimi was fighting another car at turn 1 after the pitstops he would have fighted harder. Kimi doesn't fight because he knows he is number 2.

Bottas did get his chance to fight the Ferraris but couldn't get close enough, Hamilton was sitting in the dirty air of Bottas and when in free air when 1 second quicker. Then Bottas couldn't keep up with the front 3. Hamilton got his chance and failed so gave the place back. Fair enough.



I'm pretty sure you're making that up. There is no evidence whatsoever of that. From the lap chart (link posted below), everyone was approx 1 second faster on new tyres. Raikkonen was 1.5 seconds behind Vettel when Seb pitted. That means he would have needed a 2.5 second offset which had absolutely no chance of happening. Vettel, Raikkonen and the Mercedes all came in at around the same time. If the overcut was so powerful why didn't Mercedes due to employ it? If Raikkonen had stayed out much longer he'd have been vulnerable to Bottas, and he had no chance of getting ahead of Vettel on worn tyres.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/07/30/2 ... test-laps/


Mercedes had no radio and Hamilton said after the race he would of stayed out longer because his tyres was in good condition. He had no radio to talk it through with the team, Wolff and Hamilton was disappointed about it.

Regarding the 1.6 I got this from Mark Hughes article, I would believe anything he says over your biased view.

Regarding Vettel and Kimi, Vettel did have a problem so wasn't at his maximum pace.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:31 pm 
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optimisteprime wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:

As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.


??? How can you say that the day after team orders did "favour" him? While he eventually gave the position back, team orders did put him in 3rd with a chance to take it to Kimi and maybe Vettel. They gave him well beyond the initial 5 laps he was promised to try to get it Kimi and if we are to believe what has been said, it was Lewis who chose to give the position back to Bottas (though I may be wrong on that part).

So why would you say that Merc "team orders are not going to favour" Hamilton going forward?


TBH by the sounds of it Mercedes are going to favour the fastest driver at the time it's needed but Bottas race pace has been his weakest part this season. If there is a time when Bottas is clearly faster and doesn't get the same opportunity then clearly Hamilton is number 1, that time hasn't come yet.
At Ferrari if Kimi is faster or not he won't be favoured. I don't even think this would have happen if he was in the championship hunt or not.



That is nonsense. In both China and Monaco Vettel was faster and behind Kimi and he wasn't favoured, he had to race and get ahead himself on merit, just like Kimi was given an opportunity to in Hungary and failed.

Ferrari have been even handed so far - no team orders ever. Mercedes have used team orders in favour of Hamilton multiple times, but I won't disagree that it might possibly true that they might use them in favour of Bottas in some scenarios, even though there is no evidence so far to support that. They did tell Bottas to back off when he was faster than Hamilton at Melbourne but they said that was in order to conserve tyres rather than protect Hamilton, so who can say for sure.


By the way I don't mind team orders and I fully expect them. Everyone knew Vettel was number 1 when he joined let alone when a car was driven this year and Kimi is your perfect number 2. Pretty clear Ferrari used team orders at Hungary but I wouldn't expect nothing else.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:33 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:

As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.


??? How can you say that the day after team orders did "favour" him? While he eventually gave the position back, team orders did put him in 3rd with a chance to take it to Kimi and maybe Vettel. They gave him well beyond the initial 5 laps he was promised to try to get it Kimi and if we are to believe what has been said, it was Lewis who chose to give the position back to Bottas (though I may be wrong on that part).

So why would you say that Merc "team orders are not going to favour" Hamilton going forward?

Clearly because he had to give the place back to Bottas so his points were not maximised, whereas with Kimi if he had been allowed the same strategy that Vettel used in Monaco to beat Kimi then Kimi clearly would have won the race quite easily.


:lol:
and it is quite possible that Ferrari would not have finished 1-2.............. that is the issue. They maximized points in each Championship... that is the real point. they did it without explicit team orders. Part of the problem Hamilton/Merc have is their frequent put downs of Ferrari team orders while it is Merc who has used them to the greater extent this year.... a hypocrisy noted by quite a fewl.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:37 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Fiki wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Magnussen was completely in the wrong on track. But the interview comment was hilarious and I'm glad he said it. Hulk's comment towards him was hilarious as well. Fewer corporate robots, more personalities!
This is one I'm going to have to try to remember. Politeness is now dumped in the category of corporate robotica...

Have you ever seen this? It shows that even in this day and age, being polite has not totally been forgotten.
Image

I've seen many variations of the theme

That moment was funny. People are talking about it because it was funny. Have you seen Brundle on Twitter saying that Alonso on the deck chair under the podium yesterday was "sad"? And Jenson Button snapped back saying F1 takes itself too seriously? Well this is the same

The highlight of the FE finale was Sebastian Buemi walking up and down the pitlane attacking every driver he thought had wronged him. It was aggressive, it was rude and more than anything else it was very very funny
No, I'm not on Twitter (Trump being there is good enough reason to stay away, I would have thought). Clearly, we don't share the same sense of fun. Fine.

For what it's worth, I thought Alonso showed he can take a joke and share it. Good on him. As for foul language being "funny"... :? I can't see it as such. And while I agree that F1 takes itself too serious, he was one of those people who was usually thoughtful enough to use polite language. And that has nothing to do with corporote robotics.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:40 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:

As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.


??? How can you say that the day after team orders did "favour" him? While he eventually gave the position back, team orders did put him in 3rd with a chance to take it to Kimi and maybe Vettel. They gave him well beyond the initial 5 laps he was promised to try to get it Kimi and if we are to believe what has been said, it was Lewis who chose to give the position back to Bottas (though I may be wrong on that part).

So why would you say that Merc "team orders are not going to favour" Hamilton going forward?

Clearly because he had to give the place back to Bottas so his points were not maximised, whereas with Kimi if he had been allowed the same strategy that Vettel used in Monaco to beat Kimi then Kimi clearly would have won the race quite easily.


:lol:
and it is quite possible that Ferrari would not have finished 1-2.............. that is the issue. They maximized points in each Championship... that is the real point. they did it without explicit team orders. Part of the problem Hamilton/Merc have is their frequent put downs of Ferrari team orders while it is Merc who has used them to the greater extent this year.... a hypocrisy noted by quite a fewl.


Surely Merc letting there faster driver through to attack is giving the team the best chance to maximise points?
In Bahrain and Hungary they kept the same positions as a team but was just trying to give the team the best chance. You only get an hour and half of racing, you don't want both your cars driving at a slower pace and the leader driving off.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:55 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:

As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.


??? How can you say that the day after team orders did "favour" him? While he eventually gave the position back, team orders did put him in 3rd with a chance to take it to Kimi and maybe Vettel. They gave him well beyond the initial 5 laps he was promised to try to get it Kimi and if we are to believe what has been said, it was Lewis who chose to give the position back to Bottas (though I may be wrong on that part).

So why would you say that Merc "team orders are not going to favour" Hamilton going forward?

Clearly because he had to give the place back to Bottas so his points were not maximised, whereas with Kimi if he had been allowed the same strategy that Vettel used in Monaco to beat Kimi then Kimi clearly would have won the race quite easily.


:lol:
and it is quite possible that Ferrari would not have finished 1-2.............. that is the issue. They maximized points in each Championship... that is the real point. they did it without explicit team orders. Part of the problem Hamilton/Merc have is their frequent put downs of Ferrari team orders while it is Merc who has used them to the greater extent this year.... a hypocrisy noted by quite a fewl.


Surely Merc letting there faster driver through to attack is giving the team the best chance to maximise points?
In Bahrain and Hungary they kept the same positions as a team but was just trying to give the team the best chance. You only get an hour and half of racing, you don't want both your cars driving at a slower pace and the leader driving off.


I have no problem with team orders and have been quite vocal about for years in here. I am a firm believer that strategies are the right of the team, and that they drivers are employees ( a belief that has put me in the firing range on more than a few occasions). The problem I have is a "we're holier than thou" attitude by some teams and drivers... ie this year, Merc & Lewis. use team orders if you must... just don't suggest that you don't while putting down perceived team orders by others.... or trying to claim a high road as the "fair gentleman" type of team.

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