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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:26 am 
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https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/saub ... ff-929575/

Well, this is out of the blue if it happens. With McLaren leaving Honda I can't see any other team for them to supply their engines, are they going to end their F1 campaign or take a sabbatical?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:30 am 
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Williams works deal.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:35 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Williams works deal.


Might work, no idea if they want to be placed last though. If Sauber cancelled the deal due to not wanting to underperform massively (which they do anyway) I can't see Williams even thinking about it and sacrifice their WCC position.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:55 am 
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guardiangr wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Williams works deal.


Might work, no idea if they want to be placed last though. If Sauber cancelled the deal due to not wanting to underperform massively (which they do anyway) I can't see Williams even thinking about it and sacrifice their WCC position.

I can see a couple of reasons:

1) The enormous financial backing, which will guarantee their financial security for the next decade (assuming a McLaren type deal)
2) The possibility of them being propelled to the front once Honda get their act together, coupled with the knowledge that as a works team they will never have to play second fiddle again.

McLaren's problem is that it is taking too long. They've invested three years at the bottom of the pile and that's starting to hurt too much. Williams could afford to spend a year or two investing in their future, as they aren't likely to be WCC challengers as a customer team. As long as they believe that Honda will come good at some point, they have more to gain than to lose. It's a risk, sure, but if it pays off their future will look very bright indeed.

Bottom line is they could plod along as they are now, aiming to be the best midfield team, or take a chance at being propelled to the top group. It's the same gamble Mclaren took in the beginning and they'll have to figure the odds of Honda getting it right must improve with every year.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:55 am 
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The same article suggests that McLaren might now favour a deal with Ferrari (honestly, McLaren-Ferrari sounds so weird I wonder if they might do a deal to re-brand the engine?) and that Sauber might therefore end up being supplied by Mercedes. It also suggests Renault could be an option as they've said they can supply a fourth team; would Fred Vasseur's arrival at Sauber help or hinder that deal? On one hand he has a very recent history with Renault, but on the other his departure seemed both sudden and acrimonious. At this rate Honda are going to end up supplying no teams at all!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:56 am 
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guardiangr wrote:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sauber-honda-engine-deal-called-off-929575/

Well, this is out of the blue if it happens. With McLaren leaving Honda I can't see any other team for them to supply their engines, are they going to end their F1 campaign or take a sabbatical?

They've just appointed Vasseur, ex Renault man, as TP. It's possible he might secure a Renault deal for Sauber?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:57 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
The same article suggests that McLaren might now favour a deal with Ferrari (honestly, McLaren-Ferrari sounds so weird I wonder if they might do a deal to re-brand the engine?) and that Sauber might therefore end up being supplied by Mercedes. It also suggests Renault could be an option as they've said they can supply a fourth team; would Fred Vasseur's arrival at Sauber help or hinder that deal? On one hand he has a very recent history with Renault, but on the other his departure seemed both sudden and acrimonious. At this rate Honda are going to end up supplying no teams at all!

Interesting point. I read recently that SM was very keen to get Alfa Romeo back into F1, possibly with a view to rebranding Ferrari engines as Alfas in a Sauber. But might that also apply for McLaren?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:08 am 
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Zoue wrote:
guardiangr wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Williams works deal.


Might work, no idea if they want to be placed last though. If Sauber cancelled the deal due to not wanting to underperform massively (which they do anyway) I can't see Williams even thinking about it and sacrifice their WCC position.

I can see a couple of reasons:

1) The enormous financial backing, which will guarantee their financial security for the next decade (assuming a McLaren type deal)
2) The possibility of them being propelled to the front once Honda get their act together, coupled with the knowledge that as a works team they will never have to play second fiddle again.

McLaren's problem is that it is taking too long. They've invested three years at the bottom of the pile and that's starting to hurt too much. Williams could afford to spend a year or two investing in their future, as they aren't likely to be WCC challengers as a customer team. As long as they believe that Honda will come good at some point, they have more to gain than to lose. It's a risk, sure, but if it pays off their future will look very bright indeed.

Bottom line is they could plod along as they are now, aiming to be the best midfield team, or take a chance at being propelled to the top group. It's the same gamble Mclaren took in the beginning and they'll have to figure the odds of Honda getting it right must improve with every year.


I agree with what you said, although no2 might actually be a holding back factor, seeing Honda's progress through these three years (and actually managing to do a step back instead). Point is if McLaren lost all faith they had at this project the other teams will think about it twice. The only guaranteed thing is the money they will probably pour to Williams if the make a works deal (which might be the deciding factor for the team after all).


Last edited by guardiangr on Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:09 am 
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guardiangr wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Williams works deal.


Might work, no idea if they want to be placed last though. If Sauber cancelled the deal due to not wanting to underperform massively (which they do anyway) I can't see Williams even thinking about it and sacrifice their WCC position.


It depends if Williams are a team that ever hopes to get back on top or if they're goal is to survive.

If they want to get back to winning they need the finance of a works deal. Honda may just get it right.

Williams are never going to win a world championship as a customer team. They just might if they got into a works deal with Honda.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:33 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
The same article suggests that McLaren might now favour a deal with Ferrari (honestly, McLaren-Ferrari sounds so weird I wonder if they might do a deal to re-brand the engine?) and that Sauber might therefore end up being supplied by Mercedes. It also suggests Renault could be an option as they've said they can supply a fourth team; would Fred Vasseur's arrival at Sauber help or hinder that deal? On one hand he has a very recent history with Renault, but on the other his departure seemed both sudden and acrimonious. At this rate Honda are going to end up supplying no teams at all!

Interesting point. I read recently that SM was very keen to get Alfa Romeo back into F1, possibly with a view to rebranding Ferrari engines as Alfas in a Sauber. But might that also apply for McLaren?


McLaren-Alfa Romeo is still a bit of a mouthful! But it could be a possibility, although I assume SM would prefer to take a team and rebrand it as Alfa Romeo.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:40 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
The same article suggests that McLaren might now favour a deal with Ferrari (honestly, McLaren-Ferrari sounds so weird I wonder if they might do a deal to re-brand the engine?)

Mclaren-FIAT? :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:01 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
The same article suggests that McLaren might now favour a deal with Ferrari (honestly, McLaren-Ferrari sounds so weird I wonder if they might do a deal to re-brand the engine?)

Mclaren-FIAT? :lol:


Actually, you could be onto something here...

Zak Brown: "Okay Fernando, I've put together a contract offer I'm confident you'll not be able to refuse! We'll be splitting with Honda for 2018 in favour of Ferrari engines, which will be re-branded as FIAT. With our chassis - which you've praised repeatedly - and a Ferrari engine, we expect to be very competitive. This must surely be enough to convince you to stay with McLaren for another year?"
Fernando Alonso: "Eh, it's tempting but... I don't know. Mercedes and Ferrari are both interested."
Zak Brown: "Okay, okay. How about this: if you extend your contract, we'll allow you to drive the 500 in 2018."
Fernando Alonso: "Done!"

(fast-forward to May 2018)

Zak Brown: "How are you enjoying this year's 500, Fernando?"

(cut to Fernando Alonso sitting outside the McLaren Technology Centre in a 2018-plated Fiat 500)

Fernando Alonso: "I hate you."

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:02 am 
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McLaren-Maserati

8)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:13 am 
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If I were Mr Honda, I would be on the phone to STR right now


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:07 pm 
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
The same article suggests that McLaren might now favour a deal with Ferrari (honestly, McLaren-Ferrari sounds so weird I wonder if they might do a deal to re-brand the engine?)

Mclaren-FIAT? :lol:


Actually, you could be onto something here...

Zak Brown: "Okay Fernando, I've put together a contract offer I'm confident you'll not be able to refuse! We'll be splitting with Honda for 2018 in favour of Ferrari engines, which will be re-branded as FIAT. With our chassis - which you've praised repeatedly - and a Ferrari engine, we expect to be very competitive. This must surely be enough to convince you to stay with McLaren for another year?"
Fernando Alonso: "Eh, it's tempting but... I don't know. Mercedes and Ferrari are both interested."
Zak Brown: "Okay, okay. How about this: if you extend your contract, we'll allow you to drive the 500 in 2018."
Fernando Alonso: "Done!"

(fast-forward to May 2018)

Zak Brown: "How are you enjoying this year's 500, Fernando?"

(cut to Fernando Alonso sitting outside the McLaren Technology Centre in a 2018-plated Fiat 500)

Fernando Alonso: "I hate you."


:lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
The same article suggests that McLaren might now favour a deal with Ferrari (honestly, McLaren-Ferrari sounds so weird I wonder if they might do a deal to re-brand the engine?) and that Sauber might therefore end up being supplied by Mercedes. It also suggests Renault could be an option as they've said they can supply a fourth team; would Fred Vasseur's arrival at Sauber help or hinder that deal? On one hand he has a very recent history with Renault, but on the other his departure seemed both sudden and acrimonious. At this rate Honda are going to end up supplying no teams at all!


I have no words.....


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:10 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Actually, you could be onto something here...

Zak Brown: "Okay Fernando, I've put together a contract offer I'm confident you'll not be able to refuse! We'll be splitting with Honda for 2018 in favour of Ferrari engines, which will be re-branded as FIAT. With our chassis - which you've praised repeatedly - and a Ferrari engine, we expect to be very competitive. This must surely be enough to convince you to stay with McLaren for another year?"
Fernando Alonso: "Eh, it's tempting but... I don't know. Mercedes and Ferrari are both interested."
Zak Brown: "Okay, okay. How about this: if you extend your contract, we'll allow you to drive the 500 in 2018."
Fernando Alonso: "Done!"

(fast-forward to May 2018)

Zak Brown: "How are you enjoying this year's 500, Fernando?"

(cut to Fernando Alonso sitting outside the McLaren Technology Centre in a 2018-plated Fiat 500)

Fernando Alonso: "I hate you."



:lol: :lol: :lol: Got a full on belly laugh outta me there. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:31 pm 
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On a more serious note, I heard sometimes in the past, Mclaren-Porsche, and it sounded right and successful.

Does this ring a bell?
https://www.pitpass.com/59601/Porsche-p ... -F1-return

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
On a more serious note, I heard sometimes in the past, Mclaren-Porsche, and it sounded right and successful.

Does this ring a bell?
https://www.pitpass.com/59601/Porsche-p ... -F1-return

I would love McLaren-Porsche. Don't know if there's anything to it, but I believe they have been attending the engine meetings, so it's not totally pie-in-the-sky...

McLaren-Ferrari is indeed too weird.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:31 pm 
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McLaren have apparently been sounding out Ferrari, but Mercedes is the far preferred choice. If Ross Brawn gets his way on the next engine regs, I can see VAG holding off till then to enter. Can't see Honda not going with at least 1 team either, the powers that be will surely be greasing a wheel or 2 to keep a major engine manufacturer involved in the sport, especially with cheaper/newer regs in sight.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:38 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
On a more serious note, I heard sometimes in the past, Mclaren-Porsche, and it sounded right and successful.

Does this ring a bell?
https://www.pitpass.com/59601/Porsche-p ... -F1-return

I would love McLaren-Porsche. Don't know if there's anything to it, but I believe they have been attending the engine meetings, so it's not totally pie-in-the-sky...

McLaren-Ferrari is indeed too weird.


Wasnt the porsche rebadged as a tag engine???


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:39 pm 
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wire2004 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
On a more serious note, I heard sometimes in the past, Mclaren-Porsche, and it sounded right and successful.

Does this ring a bell?
https://www.pitpass.com/59601/Porsche-p ... -F1-return

I would love McLaren-Porsche. Don't know if there's anything to it, but I believe they have been attending the engine meetings, so it's not totally pie-in-the-sky...

McLaren-Ferrari is indeed too weird.


Wasnt the porsche rebadged as a tag engine???


Certainly was. Pretty funny how things like that come full circle.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:46 pm 
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Who supplies the engine for the p1. Mclaren or is it outsourced still.
Porsche could be competitive in formula 1 very quickly if they revise the 914 (is it 914 or 919) engine slightly to conform.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:29 pm 
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wire2004 wrote:
Who supplies the engine for the p1. Mclaren or is it outsourced still.
Porsche could be competitive in formula 1 very quickly if they revise the 914 (is it 914 or 919) engine slightly to conform.

It's produced by Walkinshaw Racing but based on a Nissan V-8

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:30 am 
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wire2004 wrote:
Who supplies the engine for the p1. Mclaren or is it outsourced still.
Porsche could be competitive in formula 1 very quickly if they revise the 914 (is it 914 or 919) engine slightly to conform.

919 hybrid from LMP.
It will still be significant development program though as adding 2 more cylinders, reducing capacity at the same time and packaging everything suitable for F1 car is not going to be cakewalk. But they do have knowhow on MGU systems thanks to LMP, the area where Honda is struggling at the moment.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:27 am 
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Zoue wrote:
guardiangr wrote:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sauber-honda-engine-deal-called-off-929575/

Well, this is out of the blue if it happens. With McLaren leaving Honda I can't see any other team for them to supply their engines, are they going to end their F1 campaign or take a sabbatical?

They've just appointed Vasseur, ex Renault man, as TP. It's possible he might secure a Renault deal for Sauber?

Wasn't their split an acrimonious one?

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:32 am 
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guardiangr wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Williams works deal.


Might work, no idea if they want to be placed last though. If Sauber cancelled the deal due to not wanting to underperform massively (which they do anyway) I can't see Williams even thinking about it and sacrifice their WCC position.

Terrible short-sightedness by the new Sauber management. The only reason I can think of is that a works deal wasn't on the cards even if McLaren ended their contract. I can't believe a team like Sauber would turn down a potential works deal to focus on attaining mid-grid mediocrity

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:22 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
wire2004 wrote:
Who supplies the engine for the p1. Mclaren or is it outsourced still.
Porsche could be competitive in formula 1 very quickly if they revise the 914 (is it 914 or 919) engine slightly to conform.

It's produced by Walkinshaw Racing but based on a Nissan V-8

This is why for me it would make much more sense for McLaren to run Renault Power. Eventually they too should get their hybrid squared away, but in the event they don't, when the changeover takes place Renault should be able to produce a top performing/competing engine again.

If I were Sauber, I would look to the teams financial stability first, and if that means taking on Honda as an engine partner for the long haul, that's precisely what they should do. Honda has a long history in all forms of motorsport and they've won just about every championship they've competed in. Eventually the laws of averages will catch up to them and they will produce an engine that's right up at the top. It might not be of the V6 Hybrid money pit variety, but if they stick with it, they will eventually supply their customers with superb engines. It's disappointing that with their engine being the most ferocious sounding of all the hybrids, it's the weakest and least reliable one. I can't get enough of the back sputter during slowdowns and downshifts.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:37 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
wire2004 wrote:
Who supplies the engine for the p1. Mclaren or is it outsourced still.
Porsche could be competitive in formula 1 very quickly if they revise the 914 (is it 914 or 919) engine slightly to conform.

It's produced by Walkinshaw Racing but based on a Nissan V-8

That would be impressive, Tom has been dead for 7 year and TWR hasn't existed for 15. Ricardo make McLaren's road car engines.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:56 pm 
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stratos wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
wire2004 wrote:
Who supplies the engine for the p1. Mclaren or is it outsourced still.
Porsche could be competitive in formula 1 very quickly if they revise the 914 (is it 914 or 919) engine slightly to conform.

It's produced by Walkinshaw Racing but based on a Nissan V-8

That would be impressive, Tom has been dead for 7 year and TWR hasn't existed for 15. Ricardo make McLaren's road car engines.

Yep, my bad. I didn't read deep enough in. I knew the base was a Nissan engine but couldn't who did the further work and just moved on after reading the part where it was a refinement that Walkingshaw developed for Indy.

Hate it when I'm guilty of doing something I normally berate others for.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:18 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
wire2004 wrote:
Who supplies the engine for the p1. Mclaren or is it outsourced still.
Porsche could be competitive in formula 1 very quickly if they revise the 914 (is it 914 or 919) engine slightly to conform.

It's produced by Walkinshaw Racing but based on a Nissan V-8

This is why for me it would make much more sense for McLaren to run Renault Power. Eventually they too should get their hybrid squared away, but in the event they don't, when the changeover takes place Renault should be able to produce a top performing/competing engine again.

If I were Sauber, I would look to the teams financial stability first, and if that means taking on Honda as an engine partner for the long haul, that's precisely what they should do. Honda has a long history in all forms of motorsport and they've won just about every championship they've competed in. Eventually the laws of averages will catch up to them and they will produce an engine that's right up at the top. It might not be of the V6 Hybrid money pit variety, but if they stick with it, they will eventually supply their customers with superb engines. It's disappointing that with their engine being the most ferocious sounding of all the hybrids, it's the weakest and least reliable one. I can't get enough of the back sputter during slowdowns and downshifts.


BIB- That's the latest rumour in AMuS that Renault are the ones McLaren may approach. Also they claim an upgrade to the Honda PU due in October is the key to it all. The aim with the update is to get within 35-40 horses and if they do the partnership will continue and Alonso could/would extend.

But if they fail Honda will put out of F1 all together, freeing up McLaren to approach Renault.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:32 pm 
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I think Honda pulling out after spending so many millions of dollars is absurd. They should look to remain in F1 and the Sauber deal I think is the perfect partnership for them. It's well-know that Sauber employs some of the best engineers in all of F1 but the budgets have limited their ability to produce every concept they come up with, and the influx of cash might just be the ticket they've needed all these years to break on through. On top of that they are also running year-old under-powered Ferrari engines that are down on both power and tech so of all teams on the grid they're dealing with the greatest deficit and it was so even before the season started. I think Honda should stick with them and eventually buy the team outright and re-enter the sport as a true manufacturer again.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:55 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I think Honda pulling out after spending so many millions of dollars is absurd. They should look to remain in F1 and the Sauber deal I think is the perfect partnership for them. It's well-know that Sauber employs some of the best engineers in all of F1 but the budgets have limited their ability to produce every concept they come up with, and the influx of cash might just be the ticket they've needed all these years to break on through. On top of that they are also running year-old under-powered Ferrari engines that are down on both power and tech so of all teams on the grid they're dealing with the greatest deficit and it was so even before the season started. I think Honda should stick with them and eventually buy the team outright and re-enter the sport as a true manufacturer again.


Look how quickly BMW were able to turn Sauber into a competitive outfit 10 years ago? Obviously potential there.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:34 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I think Honda pulling out after spending so many millions of dollars is absurd. They should look to remain in F1 and the Sauber deal I think is the perfect partnership for them. It's well-know that Sauber employs some of the best engineers in all of F1 but the budgets have limited their ability to produce every concept they come up with, and the influx of cash might just be the ticket they've needed all these years to break on through. On top of that they are also running year-old under-powered Ferrari engines that are down on both power and tech so of all teams on the grid they're dealing with the greatest deficit and it was so even before the season started. I think Honda should stick with them and eventually buy the team outright and re-enter the sport as a true manufacturer again.


Honda was a complete failure as a works team and has shown no ability, no ability at all, that they get today's engines.

The Honda of the '80s is clearly long gone, with the people there today a shell of their former greatness.

Honda should pack their bags and just leave.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:35 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I think Honda pulling out after spending so many millions of dollars is absurd. They should look to remain in F1 and the Sauber deal I think is the perfect partnership for them. It's well-know that Sauber employs some of the best engineers in all of F1 but the budgets have limited their ability to produce every concept they come up with, and the influx of cash might just be the ticket they've needed all these years to break on through. On top of that they are also running year-old under-powered Ferrari engines that are down on both power and tech so of all teams on the grid they're dealing with the greatest deficit and it was so even before the season started. I think Honda should stick with them and eventually buy the team outright and re-enter the sport as a true manufacturer again.


Look how quickly BMW were able to turn Sauber into a competitive outfit 10 years ago? Obviously potential there.


And with Williams. BMW's engine had some serious grunt. I always thought it was a shame that they somehow missed out making the whole package work. Could have been a monster team.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:41 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I think Honda pulling out after spending so many millions of dollars is absurd. They should look to remain in F1 and the Sauber deal I think is the perfect partnership for them. It's well-know that Sauber employs some of the best engineers in all of F1 but the budgets have limited their ability to produce every concept they come up with, and the influx of cash might just be the ticket they've needed all these years to break on through. On top of that they are also running year-old under-powered Ferrari engines that are down on both power and tech so of all teams on the grid they're dealing with the greatest deficit and it was so even before the season started. I think Honda should stick with them and eventually buy the team outright and re-enter the sport as a true manufacturer again.


It's Sauber that pulled the plug on the Honda deal for next year allegedly and the year old Ferrari unit has more power currently than the Honda so it's actually McLaren with the biggest deficit.(So far).

But I still hope they stay. I've changed my mind again( :D ) and now I want McHonda to tough it out. I'll see how this next upgrade works out for them before I nail my colours to the post more firmly.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Some of the comments coming from the Sauber side are noteworthy.
Vasseur said that what he heard about Honda from Mclaren was "scary".
Ericsson said that he wouldn't mind Honda engines if Honda is 100% committed.
So my question is, what exactly makes Honda so scary? What is it behind the scenes that we do not know? Why is their commitment to F1 being questioned?
There is definitely something strange going on at Honda, and the result is their very underwhelming power unit, but I'd love to be a fly on those walls.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:06 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
Some of the comments coming from the Sauber side are noteworthy.
Vasseur said that what he heard about Honda from Mclaren was "scary".
Ericsson said that he wouldn't mind Honda engines if Honda is 100% committed.
So my question is, what exactly makes Honda so scary? What is it behind the scenes that we do not know? Why is their commitment to F1 being questioned?
There is definitely something strange going on at Honda, and the result is their very underwhelming power unit, but I'd love to be a fly on those walls.


Scary wise I'd imagine could be the reliability of certain components. The MGU-H specifically has been a nightmare they can't seem to solve. Also could be Hasegawa's comments about the dyno a few weeks ago where he said they didn't know why the correlation to track was so poor and that it was making them doubt their own fixes.

That's pretty scary to read if you're about to be supplied by them.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
I think Honda pulling out after spending so many millions of dollars is absurd. They should look to remain in F1 and the Sauber deal I think is the perfect partnership for them. It's well-know that Sauber employs some of the best engineers in all of F1 but the budgets have limited their ability to produce every concept they come up with, and the influx of cash might just be the ticket they've needed all these years to break on through. On top of that they are also running year-old under-powered Ferrari engines that are down on both power and tech so of all teams on the grid they're dealing with the greatest deficit and it was so even before the season started. I think Honda should stick with them and eventually buy the team outright and re-enter the sport as a true manufacturer again.


It's Sauber that pulled the plug on the Honda deal for next year allegedly and the year old Ferrari unit has more power currently than the Honda so it's actually McLaren with the biggest deficit.(So far).

But I still hope they stay. I've changed my mind again( :D ) and now I want McHonda to tough it out. I'll see how this next upgrade works out for them before I nail my colours to the post more firmly.

I read it was the other way around?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Some of the comments coming from the Sauber side are noteworthy.
Vasseur said that what he heard about Honda from Mclaren was "scary".
Ericsson said that he wouldn't mind Honda engines if Honda is 100% committed.
So my question is, what exactly makes Honda so scary? What is it behind the scenes that we do not know? Why is their commitment to F1 being questioned?
There is definitely something strange going on at Honda, and the result is their very underwhelming power unit, but I'd love to be a fly on those walls.


Scary wise I'd imagine could be the reliability of certain components. The MGU-H specifically has been a nightmare they can't seem to solve. Also could be Hasegawa's comments about the dyno a few weeks ago where he said they didn't know why the correlation to track was so poor and that it was making them doubt their own fixes.

That's pretty scary to read if you're about to be supplied by them.


Maybe but most of us already know that the honda pu components are extremely unreliable so i dont see why Vasseur would need to reiterate it in that manner. Perhaps Honda is thinking of pulling out, maybe they just dont care about succeeding in f1 at all. Perhaps they are simply using f1 as a learning tool for their younger engineers. That would qualify as scary too...
Its possible I may be stretching it too far but this whole honda saga is just getting weirder and weirder by the day. Them not supplying sauber anymore for next year, if true, is really awful. They need the extra cars on the grid so they can learn. But if the commitment to f1 success is really lacking then pulling out of f1 altogether would be the more sensible thing to do.


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