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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:16 am 
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funkymonkey wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
The only reason I could see is the way Alonso left and what he said about the team after he left them.
They have proven him wrong and are back to battling for title, but that must leave little bitter taste if you are a team owner.

But if Alonso is available, I mean really available, I can see Ferrari signing him back even with Vettel being in team. But this will happen if they cant wiggle out Max from his Redbull contract which goes through to the end of 2019.

I dont think anyone else is good enough for Ferrari at the moment. Definitely not Perez or Sainz. Sorry, I know there are fans of these 2 drivers out there, but neither IMHO they are not Top 2 team material. Not yet at least.

Hulkenberg would have been my choice had they managed to grab him for this year instead of extending Kimi's contract. But now he has long term deal with Renault and not sure if they will release him.

If they want to throw wild card in there, might as well promote their junior driver for a change.


Perez has accomplished more in lesser machinery than pretty much everyone with the exception of… Alonso, including Hulkenberg.
How anyone would prefer him over Perez is beyond me.

Sainz was every bit as good as Verstappen while they were together so if you rate Verstappen so highly, Sainz is right there too. I can appreciate if you want to hold his few recent lapses in concentration against him, but that doesn't mean Verstappen is much better. Remember that Verstappen escaped SEVERAL incidents because of the actions other drivers took to avoid contact. In my book the that doesn't add anything to your game, just your string of luck. And if we are to call attention to Sainz' few incidents in quantifying him a less capable driver than Verstappen, look at Vettel running up the rear of Hamilton in Baku. And he's a 4-time WDC. Stuff happens to and with every driver in this game of hundredths on the extreme limit. The moments in between where you yield good results is what is telling of the capabilities of a driver and even than that's clouded a bit because only a select VERY FEW have equipment capable of allowing them to shine at the very front.

I think Ferrari have several options to fill their 2nd seat aside from Verstappen and Alonso, but if it were me, I'd snap up Alonso and would promptly lay down the law that each driver will receive equal treatment and their mechanic teams would alternate from weekend to weekend so as to ensure they are each receiving equal support from the team, and the most important rule is that they not resort to infighting or trying to sway support their way because it's never going to happen, because the team pays their salaries. Otherwise they are 100% free to race one another hard but fair. I realize that's difficult to manage, but those are the terms you will be agreeing to if you want to drive for the prancing horse.


That is it though. I some drivers are only good in midfield teams. Some shine when they go to top team and some done make it.

Perez is in last category for me.

As far as comparison with Hulk goes, he might have more podiums than Hulk but Hulk had terrible luck and reliability in Force India in both 2015 and 2016. If I recollect it properly, Perez finished all races last 2 years and Hulk has 9-10 DNFs including one race where they couldnt even get him on the grid.

Sure Perez has done good job in Force India, but he never shown that glimpses of something special.

This is why I think he will be last thing on Ferrari's mind and they would and should look at all other options before considering Perez. I dont think he is championship material and I dont know if he will be reliable No2 driver on whom you can lean on in crunch situation while rubbing wheels against some of the top drivers on the grid today.


I beg to differ. Apart from the drivers in the top 3 (bar Raikkonen), Perez comes next in awesomeness. Since '14, he's atleast achieved a podium every year. A feat much more hard when in a midfield team. His podiums can't be entirely called fluky. A driver needs to make best of the opportunities that come his way & Perez did that.

His driving style is tactically aggressive which is needed as no one will give a place on the track. He makes more overtakes than Hulk ever managed. To top all this, he carries a host of sponsors along with him.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:01 am 
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funkymonkey wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
The only reason I could see is the way Alonso left and what he said about the team after he left them.
They have proven him wrong and are back to battling for title, but that must leave little bitter taste if you are a team owner.

But if Alonso is available, I mean really available, I can see Ferrari signing him back even with Vettel being in team. But this will happen if they cant wiggle out Max from his Redbull contract which goes through to the end of 2019.

I dont think anyone else is good enough for Ferrari at the moment. Definitely not Perez or Sainz. Sorry, I know there are fans of these 2 drivers out there, but neither IMHO they are not Top 2 team material. Not yet at least.

Hulkenberg would have been my choice had they managed to grab him for this year instead of extending Kimi's contract. But now he has long term deal with Renault and not sure if they will release him.

If they want to throw wild card in there, might as well promote their junior driver for a change.


Perez has accomplished more in lesser machinery than pretty much everyone with the exception of… Alonso, including Hulkenberg.
How anyone would prefer him over Perez is beyond me.

Sainz was every bit as good as Verstappen while they were together so if you rate Verstappen so highly, Sainz is right there too. I can appreciate if you want to hold his few recent lapses in concentration against him, but that doesn't mean Verstappen is much better. Remember that Verstappen escaped SEVERAL incidents because of the actions other drivers took to avoid contact. In my book the that doesn't add anything to your game, just your string of luck. And if we are to call attention to Sainz' few incidents in quantifying him a less capable driver than Verstappen, look at Vettel running up the rear of Hamilton in Baku. And he's a 4-time WDC. Stuff happens to and with every driver in this game of hundredths on the extreme limit. The moments in between where you yield good results is what is telling of the capabilities of a driver and even than that's clouded a bit because only a select VERY FEW have equipment capable of allowing them to shine at the very front.

I think Ferrari have several options to fill their 2nd seat aside from Verstappen and Alonso, but if it were me, I'd snap up Alonso and would promptly lay down the law that each driver will receive equal treatment and their mechanic teams would alternate from weekend to weekend so as to ensure they are each receiving equal support from the team, and the most important rule is that they not resort to infighting or trying to sway support their way because it's never going to happen, because the team pays their salaries. Otherwise they are 100% free to race one another hard but fair. I realize that's difficult to manage, but those are the terms you will be agreeing to if you want to drive for the prancing horse.


That is it though. I some drivers are only good in midfield teams. Some shine when they go to top team and some done make it.

Perez is in last category for me.

As far as comparison with Hulk goes, he might have more podiums than Hulk but Hulk had terrible luck and reliability in Force India in both 2015 and 2016. If I recollect it properly, Perez finished all races last 2 years and Hulk has 9-10 DNFs including one race where they couldnt even get him on the grid.

Sure Perez has done good job in Force India, but he never shown that glimpses of something special.

This is why I think he will be last thing on Ferrari's mind and they would and should look at all other options before considering Perez. I dont think he is championship material and I dont know if he will be reliable No2 driver on whom you can lean on in crunch situation while rubbing wheels against some of the top drivers on the grid today.


And out of those retirements Hulk had 6 crashes. Perez had 1 in the same period. Perez finished ahead more often when both drivers finished as well. I don't honestly understand what special things you have seen from Hulk but not Perez. Sergio has earned some great results on a standard strategy that Hulk hasn't got near.

He would've probably won in Canada 2014 if not for brake failure, His podium in Russia 2015 was on a standard strategy. As were his good results in the wet in 2016 - A podium in Monaco and a 4th place in Brazil. His third place in Azerbaijan in 2016? Again a standard strategy. In fact none of his top results across the last few years have come as a result of running a different strategy.

Across 2015/2016 Hulk scored a 4th Belgium 2016 and no other results better than 6th.

Across that same time period Perez scored three 3rd places, one 4th place and four 5th places. In other words If you put the FI drivers best results in a line from best to worst eight out of the best nine would've been scored by Perez!

And yet you think he has shown nothing special whilst Hulkenberg has?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:58 am 
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mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
With all the rumours flying around I can't get my head around what exactly is going to happen these next 1 or 2 years.

First of all we hear of Vettel having signed a pre-contract with Mercedes which was assumed to be for 2018 but now we hear of Vettel only wanting a 1 year contract with Ferrari making him available for Mercedes in 2019 which coincides with Hamilton being out of contract.

This would kind of tie in with how Vettel seems to like to operate, it was rumoured he had signed a pre-contract with Ferrari whilst at Red Bull with also a performance clause tied in with his Red Bull contract, the performance clause first kicked in then Alonso decided to leave Ferrari and Vettel signed for Ferrari the very next day.

Then another rumour going about is Verstappen wanting to drive for Ferrari for 2019 along with another rumour of the 2019 Ferrari driver line up being Hamilton and Verstappen which also would put Vettel at Mercedes.

However none of this would put Alonso at either Ferrari or Mercedes, with the line ups there probably remaining the same for 2018, however would Ferrari actually countenance a 1 year contract for Vettel with him having one eye on a Mercedes seat with Alonso waiting in the wings willing to sign a multi-year contract with Ferrari, that doesn't seem likely?

Add the rumours around Ricciardo having signed a pre-agreement with Ferrari in the event Vettel leaves

I've not heard that one but Ricciardo is not available until 2019, so it leaves Ferrari without a driver for 2018, do you try and buy out Ricciardo's contract or sign Alonso who is available?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:12 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
The only reason I could see is the way Alonso left and what he said about the team after he left them.
They have proven him wrong and are back to battling for title, but that must leave little bitter taste if you are a team owner.

But if Alonso is available, I mean really available, I can see Ferrari signing him back even with Vettel being in team. But this will happen if they cant wiggle out Max from his Redbull contract which goes through to the end of 2019.

I dont think anyone else is good enough for Ferrari at the moment. Definitely not Perez or Sainz. Sorry, I know there are fans of these 2 drivers out there, but neither IMHO they are not Top 2 team material. Not yet at least.

Hulkenberg would have been my choice had they managed to grab him for this year instead of extending Kimi's contract. But now he has long term deal with Renault and not sure if they will release him.

If they want to throw wild card in there, might as well promote their junior driver for a change.


Perez has accomplished more in lesser machinery than pretty much everyone with the exception of… Alonso, including Hulkenberg.
How anyone would prefer him over Perez is beyond me.

Sainz was every bit as good as Verstappen while they were together so if you rate Verstappen so highly, Sainz is right there too. I can appreciate if you want to hold his few recent lapses in concentration against him, but that doesn't mean Verstappen is much better. Remember that Verstappen escaped SEVERAL incidents because of the actions other drivers took to avoid contact. In my book the that doesn't add anything to your game, just your string of luck. And if we are to call attention to Sainz' few incidents in quantifying him a less capable driver than Verstappen, look at Vettel running up the rear of Hamilton in Baku. And he's a 4-time WDC. Stuff happens to and with every driver in this game of hundredths on the extreme limit. The moments in between where you yield good results is what is telling of the capabilities of a driver and even than that's clouded a bit because only a select VERY FEW have equipment capable of allowing them to shine at the very front.

I think Ferrari have several options to fill their 2nd seat aside from Verstappen and Alonso, but if it were me, I'd snap up Alonso and would promptly lay down the law that each driver will receive equal treatment and their mechanic teams would alternate from weekend to weekend so as to ensure they are each receiving equal support from the team, and the most important rule is that they not resort to infighting or trying to sway support their way because it's never going to happen, because the team pays their salaries. Otherwise they are 100% free to race one another hard but fair. I realize that's difficult to manage, but those are the terms you will be agreeing to if you want to drive for the prancing horse.


That is it though. I some drivers are only good in midfield teams. Some shine when they go to top team and some done make it.

Perez is in last category for me.

As far as comparison with Hulk goes, he might have more podiums than Hulk but Hulk had terrible luck and reliability in Force India in both 2015 and 2016. If I recollect it properly, Perez finished all races last 2 years and Hulk has 9-10 DNFs including one race where they couldnt even get him on the grid.

Sure Perez has done good job in Force India, but he never shown that glimpses of something special.

This is why I think he will be last thing on Ferrari's mind and they would and should look at all other options before considering Perez. I dont think he is championship material and I dont know if he will be reliable No2 driver on whom you can lean on in crunch situation while rubbing wheels against some of the top drivers on the grid today.


And out of those retirements Hulk had 6 crashes. Perez had 1 in the same period. Perez finished ahead more often when both drivers finished as well. I don't honestly understand what special things you have seen from Hulk but not Perez. Sergio has earned some great results on a standard strategy that Hulk hasn't got near.

He would've probably won in Canada 2014 if not for brake failure, His podium in Russia 2015 was on a standard strategy. As were his good results in the wet in 2016 - A podium in Monaco and a 4th place in Brazil. His third place in Azerbaijan in 2016? Again a standard strategy. In fact none of his top results across the last few years have come as a result of running a different strategy.

Across 2015/2016 Hulk scored a 4th Belgium 2016 and no other results better than 6th.

Across that same time period Perez scored three 3rd places, one 4th place and four 5th places. In other words If you put the FI drivers best results in a line from best to worst eight out of the best nine would've been scored by Perez!

And yet you think he has shown nothing special whilst Hulkenberg has?


Yes, I stand by my comment.

Go watch those crashes and see how many of them were completely Hulk's faults. I will tell yo how many, you will count them on 2 fingers.

As far as Perez's results and podiums are concerned, not a single podium was down to standard strategy as you call it. Not 1.

All were achieved with top order getting tangled amongst themselves and stupidly long run on hard tyres and luck with cautions and safety cars. Hulk may have crashed out more including during the race in Brazil which he was in the lead for a while before crashing into Hamilton, but its those races including now 7 year old pole lap in wet which which you remember. You dont remember Perez's long run podiums. Those are generic podiums. Very happy that Force India got those podiums but on at least 2 of those cases, had Hulk or any driver been on same strategy, he would have been in same place.
As I said, I do think Perez has place in F1, but not in top 2 teams. Not as a title contender. I will eat my words if he ever wins title or even fights for it.

Its a shame that Hulkenberg made those bad decisions in his career to give up his FI seat to go to Sauber and I also think going to Renault was not wise. But he remains better rated driver among F1 pundits and lot of F1 fans. If I were TP, I will take him over Perez any given day. He is modern day Heidfeld.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Alonso has made the bed he currently sleeps in. He spent the previous two seasons publicly stating why he was right in leaving Ferrari and he only changed his tune this year once he saw how competitive Ferrari was. The trouble with Alonso is that he thinks he is bigger than any team he drives for which is why Mercedes and Ferrari are not showing interest even though he would be a good driver fit for either next year. This leaves him with either McLaren, Renault or Indy as less desirable choices. I think he should do Indy and add a new glorious chapter to his legend rather than stay running around in midfield F1 cars.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:17 am 
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funkymonkey wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
The only reason I could see is the way Alonso left and what he said about the team after he left them.
They have proven him wrong and are back to battling for title, but that must leave little bitter taste if you are a team owner.

But if Alonso is available, I mean really available, I can see Ferrari signing him back even with Vettel being in team. But this will happen if they cant wiggle out Max from his Redbull contract which goes through to the end of 2019.

I dont think anyone else is good enough for Ferrari at the moment. Definitely not Perez or Sainz. Sorry, I know there are fans of these 2 drivers out there, but neither IMHO they are not Top 2 team material. Not yet at least.

Hulkenberg would have been my choice had they managed to grab him for this year instead of extending Kimi's contract. But now he has long term deal with Renault and not sure if they will release him.

If they want to throw wild card in there, might as well promote their junior driver for a change.


Perez has accomplished more in lesser machinery than pretty much everyone with the exception of… Alonso, including Hulkenberg.
How anyone would prefer him over Perez is beyond me.

Sainz was every bit as good as Verstappen while they were together so if you rate Verstappen so highly, Sainz is right there too. I can appreciate if you want to hold his few recent lapses in concentration against him, but that doesn't mean Verstappen is much better. Remember that Verstappen escaped SEVERAL incidents because of the actions other drivers took to avoid contact. In my book the that doesn't add anything to your game, just your string of luck. And if we are to call attention to Sainz' few incidents in quantifying him a less capable driver than Verstappen, look at Vettel running up the rear of Hamilton in Baku. And he's a 4-time WDC. Stuff happens to and with every driver in this game of hundredths on the extreme limit. The moments in between where you yield good results is what is telling of the capabilities of a driver and even than that's clouded a bit because only a select VERY FEW have equipment capable of allowing them to shine at the very front.

I think Ferrari have several options to fill their 2nd seat aside from Verstappen and Alonso, but if it were me, I'd snap up Alonso and would promptly lay down the law that each driver will receive equal treatment and their mechanic teams would alternate from weekend to weekend so as to ensure they are each receiving equal support from the team, and the most important rule is that they not resort to infighting or trying to sway support their way because it's never going to happen, because the team pays their salaries. Otherwise they are 100% free to race one another hard but fair. I realize that's difficult to manage, but those are the terms you will be agreeing to if you want to drive for the prancing horse.


That is it though. I some drivers are only good in midfield teams. Some shine when they go to top team and some done make it.

Perez is in last category for me.

As far as comparison with Hulk goes, he might have more podiums than Hulk but Hulk had terrible luck and reliability in Force India in both 2015 and 2016. If I recollect it properly, Perez finished all races last 2 years and Hulk has 9-10 DNFs including one race where they couldnt even get him on the grid.

Sure Perez has done good job in Force India, but he never shown that glimpses of something special.

This is why I think he will be last thing on Ferrari's mind and they would and should look at all other options before considering Perez. I dont think he is championship material and I dont know if he will be reliable No2 driver on whom you can lean on in crunch situation while rubbing wheels against some of the top drivers on the grid today.


And out of those retirements Hulk had 6 crashes. Perez had 1 in the same period. Perez finished ahead more often when both drivers finished as well. I don't honestly understand what special things you have seen from Hulk but not Perez. Sergio has earned some great results on a standard strategy that Hulk hasn't got near.

He would've probably won in Canada 2014 if not for brake failure, His podium in Russia 2015 was on a standard strategy. As were his good results in the wet in 2016 - A podium in Monaco and a 4th place in Brazil. His third place in Azerbaijan in 2016? Again a standard strategy. In fact none of his top results across the last few years have come as a result of running a different strategy.

Across 2015/2016 Hulk scored a 4th Belgium 2016 and no other results better than 6th.

Across that same time period Perez scored three 3rd places, one 4th place and four 5th places. In other words If you put the FI drivers best results in a line from best to worst eight out of the best nine would've been scored by Perez!

And yet you think he has shown nothing special whilst Hulkenberg has?


Yes, I stand by my comment.

Go watch those crashes and see how many of them were completely Hulk's faults. I will tell yo how many, you will count them on 2 fingers.

As far as Perez's results and podiums are concerned, not a single podium was down to standard strategy as you call it. Not 1.

All were achieved with top order getting tangled amongst themselves and stupidly long run on hard tyres and luck with cautions and safety cars. Hulk may have crashed out more including during the race in Brazil which he was in the lead for a while before crashing into Hamilton, but its those races including now 7 year old pole lap in wet which which you remember. You dont remember Perez's long run podiums. Those are generic podiums. Very happy that Force India got those podiums but on at least 2 of those cases, had Hulk or any driver been on same strategy, he would have been in same place.
As I said, I do think Perez has place in F1, but not in top 2 teams. Not as a title contender. I will eat my words if he ever wins title or even fights for it.

Its a shame that Hulkenberg made those bad decisions in his career to give up his FI seat to go to Sauber and I also think going to Renault was not wise. But he remains better rated driver among F1 pundits and lot of F1 fans. If I were TP, I will take him over Perez any given day. He is modern day Heidfeld.


If we are discounting wet races then try Perez's 3rd place at the European Grand Prix in 2016.

Going to Renault was very smart. Nobody is going to give you a top drive while you're being beaten by your team mate. He only got the Renault drive because Perez turned it down.

I'm not arguing Perez is a tier 1 driver. Just a bit better than Hulkenberg. I think he has proved that.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:05 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Perez has accomplished more in lesser machinery than pretty much everyone with the exception of… Alonso, including Hulkenberg.
How anyone would prefer him over Perez is beyond me.

Sainz was every bit as good as Verstappen while they were together so if you rate Verstappen so highly, Sainz is right there too. I can appreciate if you want to hold his few recent lapses in concentration against him, but that doesn't mean Verstappen is much better. Remember that Verstappen escaped SEVERAL incidents because of the actions other drivers took to avoid contact. In my book the that doesn't add anything to your game, just your string of luck. And if we are to call attention to Sainz' few incidents in quantifying him a less capable driver than Verstappen, look at Vettel running up the rear of Hamilton in Baku. And he's a 4-time WDC. Stuff happens to and with every driver in this game of hundredths on the extreme limit. The moments in between where you yield good results is what is telling of the capabilities of a driver and even than that's clouded a bit because only a select VERY FEW have equipment capable of allowing them to shine at the very front.

I think Ferrari have several options to fill their 2nd seat aside from Verstappen and Alonso, but if it were me, I'd snap up Alonso and would promptly lay down the law that each driver will receive equal treatment and their mechanic teams would alternate from weekend to weekend so as to ensure they are each receiving equal support from the team, and the most important rule is that they not resort to infighting or trying to sway support their way because it's never going to happen, because the team pays their salaries. Otherwise they are 100% free to race one another hard but fair. I realize that's difficult to manage, but those are the terms you will be agreeing to if you want to drive for the prancing horse.


That is it though. I some drivers are only good in midfield teams. Some shine when they go to top team and some done make it.

Perez is in last category for me.

As far as comparison with Hulk goes, he might have more podiums than Hulk but Hulk had terrible luck and reliability in Force India in both 2015 and 2016. If I recollect it properly, Perez finished all races last 2 years and Hulk has 9-10 DNFs including one race where they couldnt even get him on the grid.

Sure Perez has done good job in Force India, but he never shown that glimpses of something special.

This is why I think he will be last thing on Ferrari's mind and they would and should look at all other options before considering Perez. I dont think he is championship material and I dont know if he will be reliable No2 driver on whom you can lean on in crunch situation while rubbing wheels against some of the top drivers on the grid today.


And out of those retirements Hulk had 6 crashes. Perez had 1 in the same period. Perez finished ahead more often when both drivers finished as well. I don't honestly understand what special things you have seen from Hulk but not Perez. Sergio has earned some great results on a standard strategy that Hulk hasn't got near.

He would've probably won in Canada 2014 if not for brake failure, His podium in Russia 2015 was on a standard strategy. As were his good results in the wet in 2016 - A podium in Monaco and a 4th place in Brazil. His third place in Azerbaijan in 2016? Again a standard strategy. In fact none of his top results across the last few years have come as a result of running a different strategy.

Across 2015/2016 Hulk scored a 4th Belgium 2016 and no other results better than 6th.

Across that same time period Perez scored three 3rd places, one 4th place and four 5th places. In other words If you put the FI drivers best results in a line from best to worst eight out of the best nine would've been scored by Perez!

And yet you think he has shown nothing special whilst Hulkenberg has?


Yes, I stand by my comment.

Go watch those crashes and see how many of them were completely Hulk's faults. I will tell yo how many, you will count them on 2 fingers.

As far as Perez's results and podiums are concerned, not a single podium was down to standard strategy as you call it. Not 1.

All were achieved with top order getting tangled amongst themselves and stupidly long run on hard tyres and luck with cautions and safety cars. Hulk may have crashed out more including during the race in Brazil which he was in the lead for a while before crashing into Hamilton, but its those races including now 7 year old pole lap in wet which which you remember. You dont remember Perez's long run podiums. Those are generic podiums. Very happy that Force India got those podiums but on at least 2 of those cases, had Hulk or any driver been on same strategy, he would have been in same place.
As I said, I do think Perez has place in F1, but not in top 2 teams. Not as a title contender. I will eat my words if he ever wins title or even fights for it.

Its a shame that Hulkenberg made those bad decisions in his career to give up his FI seat to go to Sauber and I also think going to Renault was not wise. But he remains better rated driver among F1 pundits and lot of F1 fans. If I were TP, I will take him over Perez any given day. He is modern day Heidfeld.


If we are discounting wet races then try Perez's 3rd place at the European Grand Prix in 2016.

Going to Renault was very smart. Nobody is going to give you a top drive while you're being beaten by your team mate. He only got the Renault drive because Perez turned it down.

I'm not arguing Perez is a tier 1 driver. Just a bit better than Hulkenberg. I think he has proved that.

Just a bit better perhaps but also very close to say overall there wasn't really much in it, over the 3 seasons:-

Points
Perez 238 - 226 Hulkenberg

Qualifying
Hulkenberg 27 - 21 Perez

Head to Head
Hulkenberg 21 - 21 Perez

In fact head to head they were actually equal every season, the main difference between the two was that Perez was more capable of the big result every now and again.

When it's that close I don't really see it as a beating, regarding Perez being first choice for Renault I think Perez's budget would also be attractive to a team who still seem to be taking on pay drivers.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:11 pm 
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I've been saying for a long time that neither Ferrari nor Mercedes will sign Fernando Alonso. They already have top tier drivers in Vettel and Hamilton who are younger than Alonso and every bit as good. If Hamilton or Vettel were to leave, Dan or Max would be the logical succession plan as, once again, they are younger and (potentially) as good.

Alonso has had some bad luck but he has also been at times a difficult person to work with for the teams he has been on. He hasn't been able to win a title in a decade despite spending that whole time on top teams with huge budgets and being paid top dollar. At a certain point, the doors begin to close. That point is right now. His options moving forward realistically are Renault or McLaren.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:14 pm 
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Posts: 12025
pokerman wrote:
Just a bit better perhaps but also very close to say overall there wasn't really much in it, over the 3 seasons:-

Points
Perez 238 - 226 Hulkenberg

Qualifying
Hulkenberg 27 - 21 Perez

Head to Head
Hulkenberg 21 - 21 Perez

In fact head to head they were actually equal every season, the main difference between the two was that Perez was more capable of the big result every now and again.

When it's that close I don't really see it as a beating, regarding Perez being first choice for Renault I think Perez's budget would also be attractive to a team who still seem to be taking on pay drivers.


Well yes I am sure. But as we have seen Perez is a little bit better than Hulkenberg so even on talent alone it would make sense for Renault to chase Perez before Hulkenberg.

Hulk's a very good driver. His consistency lets him down.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:17 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
I've been saying for a long time that neither Ferrari nor Mercedes will sign Fernando Alonso. They already have top tier drivers in Vettel and Hamilton who are younger than Alonso and every bit as good. If Hamilton or Vettel were to leave, Dan or Max would be the logical succession plan as, once again, they are younger and (potentially) as good.

Alonso has had some bad luck but he has also been at times a difficult person to work with for the teams he has been on. He hasn't been able to win a title in a decade despite spending that whole time on top teams with huge budgets and being paid top dollar. At a certain point, the doors begin to close. That point is right now. His options moving forward realistically are Renault or McLaren.

He's still in a top team with a huge budget and being paid top dollar. Obviously it's not just money that's required to win titles. Just ask anyone who worked for Toyota

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:22 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I've been saying for a long time that neither Ferrari nor Mercedes will sign Fernando Alonso. They already have top tier drivers in Vettel and Hamilton who are younger than Alonso and every bit as good. If Hamilton or Vettel were to leave, Dan or Max would be the logical succession plan as, once again, they are younger and (potentially) as good.

Alonso has had some bad luck but he has also been at times a difficult person to work with for the teams he has been on. He hasn't been able to win a title in a decade despite spending that whole time on top teams with huge budgets and being paid top dollar. At a certain point, the doors begin to close. That point is right now. His options moving forward realistically are Renault or McLaren.

He's still in a top team with a huge budget and being paid top dollar. Obviously it's not just money that's required to win titles. Just ask someone from Toyota

I'm not saying his driving is to blame but what you do from lights to flag is actually only a part of your job on a race team. Alonso has publicly bashed every team he's been a part of and has done so to egregious levels at Mclaren and Ferrari. To say the least, this is not good for team morale. To put it more bluntly, it's toxic and selfish and it helps no one but Fernando himself.

Say what you will about Hamilton or Vettel but they seem to really get along with the teams they are on for the most part. This is an underestimated factor. Regardless of what talent an organization has, if there is toxic energy in the workplace, that's going to take a toll.

Anyway, my comment wasn't made to bash Alonso. It was to point out the reality of his situation. He is a 36 year old racing driver who is difficult to work with. The top two teams simply do not have any incentive to hire him as they have better overall options.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:11 pm 
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sandman: ""Anyway, my comment wasn't made to bash Alonso. It was to point out the reality of his situation. He is a 36 year old racing driver who is difficult to work with. The top two teams simply do not have any incentive to hire him as they have better overall options. ""

exactly.
if rumor is true, sv and kr will be announced at monza as having signed on for more at ferrari


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:03 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I've been saying for a long time that neither Ferrari nor Mercedes will sign Fernando Alonso. They already have top tier drivers in Vettel and Hamilton who are younger than Alonso and every bit as good. If Hamilton or Vettel were to leave, Dan or Max would be the logical succession plan as, once again, they are younger and (potentially) as good.

Alonso has had some bad luck but he has also been at times a difficult person to work with for the teams he has been on. He hasn't been able to win a title in a decade despite spending that whole time on top teams with huge budgets and being paid top dollar. At a certain point, the doors begin to close. That point is right now. His options moving forward realistically are Renault or McLaren.

He's still in a top team with a huge budget and being paid top dollar. Obviously it's not just money that's required to win titles. Just ask someone from Toyota

I'm not saying his driving is to blame but what you do from lights to flag is actually only a part of your job on a race team. Alonso has publicly bashed every team he's been a part of and has done so to egregious levels at Mclaren and Ferrari. To say the least, this is not good for team morale. To put it more bluntly, it's toxic and selfish and it helps no one but Fernando himself.

Say what you will about Hamilton or Vettel but they seem to really get along with the teams they are on for the most part. This is an underestimated factor. Regardless of what talent an organization has, if there is toxic energy in the workplace, that's going to take a toll.

Anyway, my comment wasn't made to bash Alonso. It was to point out the reality of his situation. He is a 36 year old racing driver who is difficult to work with. The top two teams simply do not have any incentive to hire him as they have better overall options.

I don't disagree that he hasn't helped himself. I disregard the McLaren outbursts because (a) he's right and (b) they're desperate to keep him. And Ferrari wanted him to stay when he left. Negative comments don't deter teams that much when they come from the best drivers

So I don't believe that his negative comments towards McLaren and Ferrari are keeping him out of a spot at the current quickest teams. I really do think it's just because they have Hamilton and Vettel. The current setups at both teams are working well for them. Why change?

It's like back when people were calling for Mark Webber to be replaced at Red Bull. It made no sense, they won 4 WDCs & WCCs with him in the team

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:48 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Just a bit better perhaps but also very close to say overall there wasn't really much in it, over the 3 seasons:-

Points
Perez 238 - 226 Hulkenberg

Qualifying
Hulkenberg 27 - 21 Perez

Head to Head
Hulkenberg 21 - 21 Perez

In fact head to head they were actually equal every season, the main difference between the two was that Perez was more capable of the big result every now and again.

When it's that close I don't really see it as a beating, regarding Perez being first choice for Renault I think Perez's budget would also be attractive to a team who still seem to be taking on pay drivers.


Well yes I am sure. But as we have seen Perez is a little bit better than Hulkenberg so even on talent alone it would make sense for Renault to chase Perez before Hulkenberg.

Hulk's a very good driver. His consistency lets him down.

I don't understand your point about consistency when the Hulk beat Perez as often as Perez beat the Hulk?

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