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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:31 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
If it's stipulated by the FIA it's hardly a design flaw. I don't see it, sorry

What don't you see? The point he's making is very simple. Given the malfunction with the headrest, the car that Hamilton was driving was always going to have to make that additional stop. Because of that, it was not the better car to be in that day. Is that not painfully obvious?

I see the point he's making, as I already mentioned in previous reply to you. I just don't agree with the definition of better car that is being made. Why can't you see (or accept) that?

There's no denying Vettel got lucky, which he somewhat mitigated by his actions against Lewis. But the original discussion was about which car was better on any given weekend and I don't agree that something like this shows a worse car. I believe it gives a false impression of how it was that weekend. Lewis had a better car, but worse luck. That I can agree with

I think you're missing the point of the exercise to be honest. He's trying to isolate driver performance. He has made corrections for races with mechanical or other car issues. This is such a race.

In the original discussion, everyone had Baku as a Mercedes track. The discussion we're having now is a different one.

In the original discussion, he said "better car." All I'm challenging is the terminology and I was at pains to acknowledge that it was a question of semantics but I felt the distinction was important. To me. Better gives a false impression, is what I'm saying.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:43 pm 
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lamo wrote:
That's right, a different discussion here all together and I think a more accurate one.

Similarly, If Vettels steering issue caused him to DNF in Hungary, the fact he had a car advantage that weekend would have be meaningless.

I don't really agree with this logic. The Ferrari was the car to have in Hungary and the fact that having pole meant that he could still win even with a damaged car illustrates how important having the right car on Saturday is. I just can't get my head around saying the Mercedes was the car to have, even with Vettel's damaged steering. That's a separate issue as to which one was better. I accept you may feel i'm being pedantic but I think it's important to get these things right, that's all

I know what you are trying to say but if i ignore the terminology being used i feel it will give rise to different debates further down the line. I don't know why you can't just say that x driver was (un)lucky in whichever race, rather than try to confuse it by describing the cars in what I feel is a misleading (even if not intentionally) way.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:58 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
I did acknowledge that it was perhaps a question of semantics, but it seems you missed that bit. I simply feel that calling a car "better" gives a false impression of the weekend. I've acknowledged Vettel was lucky and Hamilton unlucky, but it appears that's not enough for you?


It's not relevant. I think you're tried to cloud an issue that is quite black and white really.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:09 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I did acknowledge that it was perhaps a question of semantics, but it seems you missed that bit. I simply feel that calling a car "better" gives a false impression of the weekend. I've acknowledged Vettel was lucky and Hamilton unlucky, but it appears that's not enough for you?


It's not relevant. I think you're tried to cloud an issue that is quite black and white really.

And that's where I respectfully disagree. I think the terminology being used is clouding the issue. I'm just trying to set that straight..


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:25 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I did acknowledge that it was perhaps a question of semantics, but it seems you missed that bit. I simply feel that calling a car "better" gives a false impression of the weekend. I've acknowledged Vettel was lucky and Hamilton unlucky, but it appears that's not enough for you?


It's not relevant. I think you're tried to cloud an issue that is quite black and white really.

And that's where I respectfully disagree. I think the terminology being used is clouding the issue. I'm just trying to set that straight..


Does it matter... We all now what Lamo means even if you might not lie that exact wording.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:32 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I did acknowledge that it was perhaps a question of semantics, but it seems you missed that bit. I simply feel that calling a car "better" gives a false impression of the weekend. I've acknowledged Vettel was lucky and Hamilton unlucky, but it appears that's not enough for you?


It's not relevant. I think you're tried to cloud an issue that is quite black and white really.

And that's where I respectfully disagree. I think the terminology being used is clouding the issue. I'm just trying to set that straight..


Does it matter... We all now what Lamo means even if you might not lie that exact wording.

So you accept it, that's fine. I don't.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:15 am 
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How would Wehrlein be doing? After all he was the guy who nearly got the seat.

Its debatable if he would have won a race, but I don't see him being much more than 20 points off Bottas unless he made rookie errors and had DNFs. Maybe Kimi would have got him at a few more races. I think he has fallen down the pecking order.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:47 am 
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lamo wrote:
How would Wehrlein be doing? After all he was the guy who nearly got the seat.

Its debatable if he would have won a race, but I don't see him being much more than 20 points off Bottas unless he made rookie errors and had DNFs. Maybe Kimi would have got him at a few more races. I think he has fallen down the pecking order.


Probably fairly similar on points. He's not crash happy and really even if you drive a poor race you'll probably be fourth at worst in the Merc.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:01 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
In a worse car, Hamilton would also be more prone to off-weekends which would have given Rosberg a better chance of beating/staying close to him over an entire season. That's exactly what happened in 2013.


Indeed, again 'motivation' comes into play (which so many people fail to take into account on this forum). Look at Vettel in 2013, the first year he was out of the running for the WDC... perhaps that's why people rate Alonso so highly, because even in a useless car he stills keeps his motivation.

Also if Rosberg had stayed he would no doubt feel that as the reigning WDC he would be driving for himself and not for the team so much. I have to say Rosberg did the smartest thing quitting at the top, I just hope he doesn't come back and mess it up.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:09 am 
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Giant>

This explains why Bottas was as quick as Hamilton for large parts of the dry part of the race. I know you said I was "making excuses" for Hamilton saying he was managing the race, but here it is from the head of strategy.

https://youtu.be/5gPNgszQKnI?t=5m18s

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:28 am 
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ALESI wrote:
I have to say Rosberg did the smartest thing quitting at the top, I just hope he doesn't come back and mess it up.

In my idealistic world I want Nico to come back in the 3rd/4th best car (like the 2003-2004 Renault), beat his teammate, score a handful of podiums and maybe even a race win. I reckon his reputation would actually improve from a season like that.

Unfortunately I can't see it happen. From all the interviews I've seen, he really does seem done with F1. :-|


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:35 am 
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lamo wrote:
Giant>

This explains why Bottas was as quick as Hamilton for large parts of the dry part of the race. I know you said I was "making excuses" for Hamilton saying he was managing the race, but here it is from the head of strategy.

https://youtu.be/5gPNgszQKnI?t=5m18s

I didn't just mean this race which I clearly was wrong. But you rarely try to find reasons for Bottas being slow at times and then one time you forgot about Bottas's problem in Bahrain until I mentioned it. Before that you just seemed to say his pace was poor the entire race without considering his issues. I accept I was wrong here with Hamilton.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:38 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
ALESI wrote:
I have to say Rosberg did the smartest thing quitting at the top, I just hope he doesn't come back and mess it up.

In my idealistic world I want Nico to come back in the 3rd/4th best car (like the 2003-2004 Renault), beat his teammate, score a handful of podiums and maybe even a race win. I reckon his reputation would actually improve from a season like that.

Unfortunately I can't see it happen. From all the interviews I've seen, he really does seem done with F1. :-|

So what you want is basically a rerun of Rosberg's Williams career ;).

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:01 am 
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Nostalgia is powerful :(


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:24 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
lamo wrote:
Giant>

This explains why Bottas was as quick as Hamilton for large parts of the dry part of the race. I know you said I was "making excuses" for Hamilton saying he was managing the race, but here it is from the head of strategy.

https://youtu.be/5gPNgszQKnI?t=5m18s

I didn't just mean this race which I clearly was wrong. But you rarely try to find reasons for Bottas being slow at times and then one time you forgot about Bottas's problem in Bahrain until I mentioned it. Before that you just seemed to say his pace was poor the entire race without considering his issues. I accept I was wrong here with Hamilton.


If you are slow and have issues, you are just even slower. That is what happened in Bahrain.

Bahrain he had a tyre issue in the first stint, but then they put on another set of the same tyre without the pressure issue for the 2nd stint and he was still slow. So the fact he had a tyre pressure issue in the first stint is kind of irrelevant if we are discussing Bottas' race pace.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:25 pm 
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lamo wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
lamo wrote:
Giant>

This explains why Bottas was as quick as Hamilton for large parts of the dry part of the race. I know you said I was "making excuses" for Hamilton saying he was managing the race, but here it is from the head of strategy.

https://youtu.be/5gPNgszQKnI?t=5m18s

I didn't just mean this race which I clearly was wrong. But you rarely try to find reasons for Bottas being slow at times and then one time you forgot about Bottas's problem in Bahrain until I mentioned it. Before that you just seemed to say his pace was poor the entire race without considering his issues. I accept I was wrong here with Hamilton.


If you are slow and have issues, you are just even slower. That is what happened in Bahrain.

Bahrain he had a tyre issue in the first stint, but then they put on another set of the same tyre without the pressure issue for the 2nd stint and he was still slow. So the fact he had a tyre pressure issue in the first stint is kind of irrelevant if we are discussing Bottas' race pace.


OK, I'm sorry about saying you make excuses. That was a little unreasonable of me. But I still don't think Bottas will have actually been slow in the first stint in Bahrain if it wasn't for his issues. You can say his overall pace was slow as that was true. But if he was slow and had issues that made him even slower, how on earth could the drivers not overtake him in the first stint? I am pretty certain he'll have either matched them in the 1st stint or possibly been marginally better considering they couldn't overtake a car with tyre issues. If they couldn't get past when Bottas had issues as well as having slow pace, then that is rather strange. I think Bottas did very well in the first bit to keep them behind considering his circumstances.

After their pit stops, Bottas actually looked very strong on the first lap. He very nearly got past Vettel. It was after that his pace seemed off. The commentators on Channel 4 did praise Bottas for his attempt this and said it reminded them of the scrap Hamilton and Rosberg had in 2014. I think That Bottas's move will have worked out if Vettel hadn't pushed him off but he had the right to do what he did. Bottas overall wasn't very strong, but I don't think he was the whole time.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:24 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Giant>

This explains why Bottas was as quick as Hamilton for large parts of the dry part of the race. I know you said I was "making excuses" for Hamilton saying he was managing the race, but here it is from the head of strategy.

https://youtu.be/5gPNgszQKnI?t=5m18s


Just to add to this, maybe Bottas actually did struggle a little towards the end because of his drinks problem? https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... ilure.html

"Valtteri Bottas has revealed that his eyesight began to suffer in the closing stages of Sunday’s Singapore Grand Prix as a result of dehydration."

"Even with the night-time start, the temperature was just below 30 degrees Celsius when the race got underway, and with cockpit temperatures known to hover around the 60-degree mark and drivers capable of sweating out up to 3kg of bodyweight, it's little wonder that Bottas began to struggle."


Maybe he could have done a little better towards the end if it wasn't for this. We just don't know. When Hamilton is slow, it often is assumed by many that there is a reason behind it. There often is. But this also could often be the case for Bottas at certain stages of some races as reports like this have come out.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:31 pm 
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How would Bottas have been quick in the first stint in Bahrain if not for his tyre pressure issue? He put the same tyre on in the 2nd stint with correct tyre pressures and was slow? Your view of that race is very warped. They coudn't pass him because you needed to be 1.0+ second plus a lap to pass. The fact that he made a good SC restart is rather meaningless when he was discussing his race pace. He was 12.5 seconds behind Vettel after 13 racing laps, then Bottas pitted again.

I think the expectation of Bottas is to be poor in at least 1 stint per race and ok/quick in the other. Even in his 2 wins this was evident.

I don't think Hamilton needs excuses for his race pace, he has had 1 poor race pace in Russia and works both tyres fine.

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Last edited by lamo on Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:08 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
lamo wrote:
Giant>

This explains why Bottas was as quick as Hamilton for large parts of the dry part of the race. I know you said I was "making excuses" for Hamilton saying he was managing the race, but here it is from the head of strategy.

https://youtu.be/5gPNgszQKnI?t=5m18s


Just to add to this, maybe Bottas actually did struggle a little towards the end because of his drinks problem? https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... ilure.html

"Valtteri Bottas has revealed that his eyesight began to suffer in the closing stages of Sunday’s Singapore Grand Prix as a result of dehydration."

"Even with the night-time start, the temperature was just below 30 degrees Celsius when the race got underway, and with cockpit temperatures known to hover around the 60-degree mark and drivers capable of sweating out up to 3kg of bodyweight, it's little wonder that Bottas began to struggle."


Maybe he could have done a little better towards the end if it wasn't for this. We just don't know. When Hamilton is slow, it often is assumed by many that there is a reason behind it. There often is. But this also could often be the case for Bottas at certain stages of some races as reports like this have come out.


But his pace was better at the end of the race. In the early stages of the race he was struggling to pull away from a Renault!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:37 am 
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I don't know how he would be doing, it just seems to me that he wasn't doing that bad of a job, considering how tense Lewis was because of him.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:32 am 
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paul_gmb wrote:
I don't know how he would be doing, it just seems to me that he wasn't doing that bad of a job, considering how tense Lewis was because of him.

Yes he was very tense after they crashed in Barcelona, having a teammate that's not going to crash into you would make you less tense.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:26 am 
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pokerman wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
I don't know how he would be doing, it just seems to me that he wasn't doing that bad of a job, considering how tense Lewis was because of him.

Yes he was very tense after they crashed in Barcelona, having a teammate that's not going to crash into you would make you less tense.

Having a teammate that moves out of your way multiple times in a single race without hesitation (Bahrain) and even compromises his own race to hold up your direct competitor for your own sake (Spain) would certainly make any driver very relaxed.

Bottas, like Kovalainen, has zero fight in him. No wonder Lewis likes him so much.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:52 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
pokerman wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
I don't know how he would be doing, it just seems to me that he wasn't doing that bad of a job, considering how tense Lewis was because of him.

Yes he was very tense after they crashed in Barcelona, having a teammate that's not going to crash into you would make you less tense.

Having a teammate that moves out of your way multiple times in a single race without hesitation (Bahrain) and even compromises his own race to hold up your direct competitor for your own sake (Spain) would certainly make any driver very relaxed.

Bottas, like Kovalainen, has zero fight in him. No wonder Lewis likes him so much.

Yes there is a marked difference between a teammate being prepared to crash into you, that would be the kind of teammate that maybe is preferable for Hamilton?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:37 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
pokerman wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
I don't know how he would be doing, it just seems to me that he wasn't doing that bad of a job, considering how tense Lewis was because of him.

Yes he was very tense after they crashed in Barcelona, having a teammate that's not going to crash into you would make you less tense.

Having a teammate that moves out of your way multiple times in a single race without hesitation (Bahrain) and even compromises his own race to hold up your direct competitor for your own sake (Spain) would certainly make any driver very relaxed.

Bottas, like Kovalainen, has zero fight in him. No wonder Lewis likes him so much.


I don't think its a case of fight, its a case of speed. If you aren't quick enough you get relegated to a lesser role. He didn't lose any positions in either of those races and Bahrain was what we saw between Mercedes drivers (when running different strategies) in the past in 2013.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:41 pm 
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Bottas was getting close to maximum points from his Mercedes, even if he wasn't that quick. However, since Monza he has not been getting close enough to the cars potential. Rosberg would have been still getting podiums and the occasional win.

The fact that Hamilton has had a completely bulletproof car this year makes it near impossible for Rosberg to challenge for the title for me. 2014 he challenged off the back of Hamilton having 2 DNFs in the first 8 races to Rosbergs 0 and the luck heavily in Rosbergs favour right up until the final race when it levelled somewhat. The same for 2016 but with Hamilton messing up starts too. Having said that, he still would have likely won 3-4 races, maybe as many as 5.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:06 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Yes there is a marked difference between a teammate being prepared to crash into you, that would be the kind of teammate that maybe is preferable for Hamilton?

Nice attempt to make Hamilton look like a victim.

Hamilton was no holier than Rosberg. USA 2015 was a blatant move to punt Nico off the track. Brundle even noted how Lewis opened up his steering wheel just so he could push Nico off the circuit. It was Magnussen-esque. The sad thing is that Lewis didn't even need to do it since the WDC was already in the bag.

The one marked difference between Lewis and Nico was that Lewis was more clever on how far to push his dirty behaviour. Lewis knew how to play play dirty to benefit himself without hurting the team too much. Nico didn't understand this limit and hence he was often very awkward when trying to be aggressive.

Unsurprisingly, you are trying to make Lewis sound like some innocent victim when he clearly wasn't one.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:22 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes there is a marked difference between a teammate being prepared to crash into you, that would be the kind of teammate that maybe is preferable for Hamilton?

Nice attempt to make Hamilton look like a victim.

Hamilton was no holier than Rosberg. USA 2015 was a blatant move to punt Nico off the track. Brundle even noted how Lewis opened up his steering wheel just so he could push Nico off the circuit. It was Magnussen-esque. The sad thing is that Lewis didn't even need to do it since the WDC was already in the bag.

The one marked difference between Lewis and Nico was that Lewis was more clever on how far to push his dirty behaviour. Lewis knew how to play play dirty to benefit himself without hurting the team too much. Nico didn't understand this limit and hence he was often very awkward when trying to be aggressive.

Unsurprisingly, you are trying to make Lewis sound like some innocent victim when he clearly wasn't one.


I agree, it got to the point when either would rather crash into the other than allow them to pass but most of the worst stuff was instigated by Rosberg. Hamilton didn't really do anything that most other drivers don't do from time to time.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:07 pm 
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Had Seb not had his recent woes, I think the situation with Mercedes now would have been Seb out in front with Nico and Lewis battling for 2nd and 3rd. I know what Mercedes would prefer for the WDC, a 1-3 Lewis - Valtteri over a 2-3 Lewis - Nico (or vice versa) every time.

Now Ferrari are up there it's no time for team mates to be taking points off each other.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:12 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes there is a marked difference between a teammate being prepared to crash into you, that would be the kind of teammate that maybe is preferable for Hamilton?

Nice attempt to make Hamilton look like a victim.

Hamilton was no holier than Rosberg. USA 2015 was a blatant move to punt Nico off the track. Brundle even noted how Lewis opened up his steering wheel just so he could push Nico off the circuit. It was Magnussen-esque. The sad thing is that Lewis didn't even need to do it since the WDC was already in the bag.

The one marked difference between Lewis and Nico was that Lewis was more clever on how far to push his dirty behaviour. Lewis knew how to play play dirty to benefit himself without hurting the team too much. Nico didn't understand this limit and hence he was often very awkward when trying to be aggressive.

Unsurprisingly, you are trying to make Lewis sound like some innocent victim when he clearly wasn't one.


It’s not about making Hamilton the victim but is that all you can come up with? This driving is so common in F1 it happened numerous times in the last Grand Prix. Rosberg at Austria was absolutely terrible driving which was blatant we both go out or nothing attitude.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:59 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes there is a marked difference between a teammate being prepared to crash into you, that would be the kind of teammate that maybe is preferable for Hamilton?

Nice attempt to make Hamilton look like a victim.

Hamilton was no holier than Rosberg. USA 2015 was a blatant move to punt Nico off the track. Brundle even noted how Lewis opened up his steering wheel just so he could push Nico off the circuit. It was Magnussen-esque. The sad thing is that Lewis didn't even need to do it since the WDC was already in the bag.

The one marked difference between Lewis and Nico was that Lewis was more clever on how far to push his dirty behaviour. Lewis knew how to play play dirty to benefit himself without hurting the team too much. Nico didn't understand this limit and hence he was often very awkward when trying to be aggressive.

Unsurprisingly, you are trying to make Lewis sound like some innocent victim when he clearly wasn't one.


It’s not about making Hamilton the victim but is that all you can come up with? This driving is so common in F1 it happened numerous times in the last Grand Prix. Rosberg at Austria was absolutely terrible driving which was blatant we both go out or nothing attitude.


There is several examples of Hamilton behaving on track with Rosberg like almost no teammates did in the last decades. I've seen him pushing wide Nico numerous times, while Rosberg was very clumsy (eg Austria, or Spa 2014). It obviously helped to establish Lewis' psychological dominance upon Nico, which was very clear during 2015.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:45 pm 
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Fantaribo wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes there is a marked difference between a teammate being prepared to crash into you, that would be the kind of teammate that maybe is preferable for Hamilton?

Nice attempt to make Hamilton look like a victim.

Hamilton was no holier than Rosberg. USA 2015 was a blatant move to punt Nico off the track. Brundle even noted how Lewis opened up his steering wheel just so he could push Nico off the circuit. It was Magnussen-esque. The sad thing is that Lewis didn't even need to do it since the WDC was already in the bag.

The one marked difference between Lewis and Nico was that Lewis was more clever on how far to push his dirty behaviour. Lewis knew how to play play dirty to benefit himself without hurting the team too much. Nico didn't understand this limit and hence he was often very awkward when trying to be aggressive.

Unsurprisingly, you are trying to make Lewis sound like some innocent victim when he clearly wasn't one.


It’s not about making Hamilton the victim but is that all you can come up with? This driving is so common in F1 it happened numerous times in the last Grand Prix. Rosberg at Austria was absolutely terrible driving which was blatant we both go out or nothing attitude.


There is several examples of Hamilton behaving on track with Rosberg like almost no teammates did in the last decades. I've seen him pushing wide Nico numerous times, while Rosberg was very clumsy (eg Austria, or Spa 2014). It obviously helped to establish Lewis' psychological dominance upon Nico, which was very clear during 2015.


Pushing wide is very common in F1, I’m sure there will be plenty this weekend.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:01 pm 
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The big variable in this whole thread is how Rosberg would have coped with the diva that is Mercedes W08. Of course the first Mercedes cars over multiple seasons tended to wear out their tyres too so perhaps a look back in history might help.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:46 pm 
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Nico was unbelievably strong at setting up the car. I believe that is the main reason he was able to outqualify Lewis as often. He would have been closer to Lewis this year, no doubt about it. My only question is where he would be in relation to Seb. Hard to tell.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:02 pm 
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mas wrote:
The big variable in this whole thread is how Rosberg would have coped with the diva that is Mercedes W08. Of course the first Mercedes cars over multiple seasons tended to wear out their tyres too so perhaps a look back in history might help.


There are a huge number of variables to guess about.

If Rosberg had been in the team, they might have sorted out the tyre temperatures a lot earlier, they might not. Vettel might never have been a contender if they had, or a short lived contender.

It's impossible to know - same as everything else that is guessed at.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:07 pm 
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I think Hamilton is very happy he doesn't have to compete against Nico again this season.

One thing nobody can deny, Nico would be right in the thick of the championship battle if he was still racing.

If Hamilton is as great as his fans proclaim, then the fact Nico was almost always no worse than one tenth slower than him - and often even faster- says Nico was easily worthy of winning more titles.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:22 am 
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I think Nico would be doing better than Bottas (more reliable for one thing) but it wouldn't have changed much - I would have expected LH to still win but Nico to have provided more competition - but also more competition against Ferrari


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:02 am 
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MasterRacer wrote:
I think Hamilton is very happy he doesn't have to compete against Nico again this season.

One thing nobody can deny, Nico would be right in the thick of the championship battle if he was still racing.

If Hamilton is as great as his fans proclaim, then the fact Nico was almost always no worse than one tenth slower than him - and often even faster- says Nico was easily worthy of winning more titles.


I would be surprised if anyone would even attempt to deny that Rosberg could drive a car around a track really, really quickly. The criticism was always racecraft, which he didn't need too much due to the Merc dominance. He'd have needed it this season.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:08 am 
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A tough scenario to predict. How hungry would Rosberg have been for it? He would likely have been more competitive than Bottas but beyind that, who knows?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:42 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
A tough scenario to predict. How hungry would Rosberg have been for it? He would likely have been more competitive than Bottas but beyind that, who knows?


If people could accurately predict the future, they wouldn't be on a Forum - they'd be winning lots of money by beating the odds and having a sumptuous lifestyle - like Rosberg's.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:57 pm 
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Possibly not much better that Bottas - I reckon last year took everything out of Nico.

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