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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:35 pm 
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I think the better question is, would Nico have brought home the championship if he were in the Ferrari?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Rosberg needed Hamilton to make mistakes or have bad luck to beat him. He’s had neither, so he would be a fair bit behind Hamilton in the standings, probably around where Bottas is.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:43 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes there is a marked difference between a teammate being prepared to crash into you, that would be the kind of teammate that maybe is preferable for Hamilton?

Nice attempt to make Hamilton look like a victim.

Hamilton was no holier than Rosberg. USA 2015 was a blatant move to punt Nico off the track. Brundle even noted how Lewis opened up his steering wheel just so he could push Nico off the circuit. It was Magnussen-esque. The sad thing is that Lewis didn't even need to do it since the WDC was already in the bag.

The one marked difference between Lewis and Nico was that Lewis was more clever on how far to push his dirty behaviour. Lewis knew how to play play dirty to benefit himself without hurting the team too much. Nico didn't understand this limit and hence he was often very awkward when trying to be aggressive.

Unsurprisingly, you are trying to make Lewis sound like some innocent victim when he clearly wasn't one.

You've explained it all yourself that Hamilton never crashed out both cars whereas Rosberg was prepared to do it whether you can call it purposely or he was just plain dumb, in 2016 everytime Hamilton tried to pass Rosberg there was contact, I believe that was Rosberg's methodology for trying to beat Hamilton that season because wheel to wheel he knew he was inferior.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:45 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes there is a marked difference between a teammate being prepared to crash into you, that would be the kind of teammate that maybe is preferable for Hamilton?

Nice attempt to make Hamilton look like a victim.

Hamilton was no holier than Rosberg. USA 2015 was a blatant move to punt Nico off the track. Brundle even noted how Lewis opened up his steering wheel just so he could push Nico off the circuit. It was Magnussen-esque. The sad thing is that Lewis didn't even need to do it since the WDC was already in the bag.

The one marked difference between Lewis and Nico was that Lewis was more clever on how far to push his dirty behaviour. Lewis knew how to play play dirty to benefit himself without hurting the team too much. Nico didn't understand this limit and hence he was often very awkward when trying to be aggressive.

Unsurprisingly, you are trying to make Lewis sound like some innocent victim when he clearly wasn't one.


I agree, it got to the point when either would rather crash into the other than allow them to pass but most of the worst stuff was instigated by Rosberg. Hamilton didn't really do anything that most other drivers don't do from time to time.

When can you say that Hamilton ever inflicted damage on either car though, I think crash is not the right word in respect to Hamilton?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Fantaribo wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes there is a marked difference between a teammate being prepared to crash into you, that would be the kind of teammate that maybe is preferable for Hamilton?

Nice attempt to make Hamilton look like a victim.

Hamilton was no holier than Rosberg. USA 2015 was a blatant move to punt Nico off the track. Brundle even noted how Lewis opened up his steering wheel just so he could push Nico off the circuit. It was Magnussen-esque. The sad thing is that Lewis didn't even need to do it since the WDC was already in the bag.

The one marked difference between Lewis and Nico was that Lewis was more clever on how far to push his dirty behaviour. Lewis knew how to play play dirty to benefit himself without hurting the team too much. Nico didn't understand this limit and hence he was often very awkward when trying to be aggressive.

Unsurprisingly, you are trying to make Lewis sound like some innocent victim when he clearly wasn't one.


It’s not about making Hamilton the victim but is that all you can come up with? This driving is so common in F1 it happened numerous times in the last Grand Prix. Rosberg at Austria was absolutely terrible driving which was blatant we both go out or nothing attitude.


There is several examples of Hamilton behaving on track with Rosberg like almost no teammates did in the last decades. I've seen him pushing wide Nico numerous times, while Rosberg was very clumsy (eg Austria, or Spa 2014). It obviously helped to establish Lewis' psychological dominance upon Nico, which was very clear during 2015.

Rosberg pushed Hamilton off the track in Australia 2015.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:52 pm 
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MasterRacer wrote:
I think Hamilton is very happy he doesn't have to compete against Nico again this season.

One thing nobody can deny, Nico would be right in the thick of the championship battle if he was still racing.

If Hamilton is as great as his fans proclaim, then the fact Nico was almost always no worse than one tenth slower than him - and often even faster- says Nico was easily worthy of winning more titles.

You said it that Hamilton was faster as he tends to be against his teammates, do people really think that Hamilton is the driver that needs to be tested as opposed to Vettel.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:54 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Rosberg needed Hamilton to make mistakes or have bad luck to beat him. He’s had neither, so he would be a fair bit behind Hamilton in the standings, probably around where Bottas is.

I think I could call Hamilton's qualifying in Monaco a mistake. It was due to this that he got a finishing position lower than any of his team mates. That surely cost him from winning the championship before the latest race. Rosberg has usually looked strong at Monaco and I certainly think he'd have done better than Bottas there. So I do think Rosberg would be ahead of Bottas and possibly ahead of Vettel too at this stage.

But what I'm not sure about is how good Rosberg would have been if he came into Mercedes from being with Williams for a few years and his first year was against Hamilton who already had 4 years experience with the team. I am not at all certain he'd be any better than Bottas then. But now, I do believe he could be doing better than Bottas, but I think Bottas will get better and potentially get to be as good as Rosberg. I don't think Hamilton will get much better than he is now so I only think Bottas will get closer. If he doesn't next season, then unless there isn's anyone else better available, he should probably go back to Williams.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:44 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
A tough scenario to predict. How hungry would Rosberg have been for it? He would likely have been more competitive than Bottas but beyind that, who knows?

Given he retired the answer is 'not very'


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:46 am 
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Quote:
In my honest opinion, this is how Rosberg would have done if he was in place of Bottas at Mercedes:

Australia: qualified 3rd, finished 3rd. Not much different from Bottas.

China: qualified 3rd, finished 3rd. Doesn't spin under the SC.

Bahrain: qualifies on pole thanks to Hamilton's DRS mistake. Finishes 2nd thanks to Hamilton getting a 5 second penalty. He's not anywhere near as slow as Bottas in the race.

Russia: qualifies 1st and finishes 1st. Bottas would have been on pole if he had strung his best sectors together. I think Lewis just had a very poor weekend by his standards.

Spain: DNF due to engine problems.

Monaco: qualifies 3rd, finishes 4th. No different from Bottas.

Canada: qualifies 2nd, finishes 2nd.

Baku: I reckon he would have won this race thanks to Hamilton's headrest issues. Nico wasn't magnetically attached to Kimi like Bottas is.

Austria: qualifies on pole and wins the race. Nico usually liked this circuit.

Silverstone: qualifies 2nd, starts 7th and finishes 2nd.

Hungary: qualifies 3rd and starts 3rd. Nico could beat Lewis in qualifying when Lewis struggled.

Belgium: I reckon he would beat Vettel in qualifying and would be able to hold him off in the race thanks to better top speed. 2nd.

Monza: qualifies wherever, finishes 2nd.

Singapore: qualifiers either 5th or 6th. Finishes 2nd ahead of a gearbox problem riddled Ricciardo.

Malaysia: qualifies 3rd and finishes 3rd. There was a 12 second gap between Ricciardo and Lewis. Nico was much closer to Lewis around here in both 2013 and 2015.

Japan: qualifies 2nd, starts 6th due to gearbox penalty, finishes 4th. He does exactly what Bottas did.

USA: qualifies 2nd and finishes 2nd as Vettel does a 2 stop. He doesn't have a super slow 2nd stint and drop behind Kimi like Bottas did.

Mexico: qualifies 4th and finishes 2nd (what Bottas did). If he outqualified Hamilton, he might have been the one that gets caught up in the crash. Who knows.


The point standings would then be:

    HAM - 332
    ROS - 303
    VET - 272

I might be overestimating him slightly, but I think that Nico would only be 30 points behind Lewis at this stage. Bottas and Hamilton have lost about equal points due to reliability this year. Hamilton lost 15 in Baku, and Bottas lost 15 in Spain. I'm assuming that the reliability would stay the same if Nico was on the team.

My hypothetical season assumes that Nico would take great advantage in the first 6 rounds when Lewis is struggling with the car, Nico was great at taking advantage of any struggles or misfortunes Lewis had. The natural pecking order would resume Canada onwards when Lewis gets comfortable in his Mercedes.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:09 am 
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Whilst I think Nico would probably be 2nd in the WDC if teamed with Lewis. I also think if the Mercedes had Bottas and Rosberg in the car then Vettel still might win the WDC due to how the points system works and wins being worth more.

I see Vettel taking a lot of the marginal races if Rosberg was Mercedes lead driver. Race like Spain, China and Spa. As well as him not needing to be so desperate in places like Mexico and Singapore because his car would "be better" as the lead Mercedes would be a bit slower. Vettel has "thrashed" Bottas head to head this year, 12-5 in qualifying I believe.

Vettel would have a few more pole positions. Rosberg was often 0.3+ behind Lewis in qualifying and a bit up and down (8-9 times last year and similar in 2015) that would give Vettel quite a lot of poles and more opportunities.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:14 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
My hypothetical season assumes that Nico would take great advantage in the first 6 rounds when Lewis is struggling with the car, Nico was great at taking advantage of any struggles or misfortunes Lewis had. The natural pecking order would resume Canada onwards when Lewis gets comfortable in his Mercedes.


The opposite was true though. Rosberg always got closer as he got more familiar with the car, straight out of the box Lewis was always quicker.

2013, Hamilton was the superior driver right up until 2/3 of the year. Nico had a strong end to the year whilst Lewis was below par.

2014, Hamilton on top on all accounts until mid year when Nico starts to consistently out qualifying him. Hamilton was 4-1 up in qualifying. It ended 7-10 in Nico's favour.

2015, Hamilton thrashing Rosberg until mid year when Nico starts out qualifying and thrashing him by the end. Hamilton was 11-1 up in qualifying. It ended 12-8.

2016, can't really read into this year at all due to reliability and starts. Hamilton seemed consistently quicker throughout the entire year though.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:02 am 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Rosberg needed Hamilton to make mistakes or have bad luck to beat him. He’s had neither, so he would be a fair bit behind Hamilton in the standings, probably around where Bottas is.

I think I could call Hamilton's qualifying in Monaco a mistake. It was due to this that he got a finishing position lower than any of his team mates. That surely cost him from winning the championship before the latest race. Rosberg has usually looked strong at Monaco and I certainly think he'd have done better than Bottas there. So I do think Rosberg would be ahead of Bottas and possibly ahead of Vettel too at this stage.

But what I'm not sure about is how good Rosberg would have been if he came into Mercedes from being with Williams for a few years and his first year was against Hamilton who already had 4 years experience with the team. I am not at all certain he'd be any better than Bottas then. But now, I do believe he could be doing better than Bottas, but I think Bottas will get better and potentially get to be as good as Rosberg. I don't think Hamilton will get much better than he is now so I only think Bottas will get closer. If he doesn't next season, then unless there isn's anyone else better available, he should probably go back to Williams.


Interesting question. I think he would have struggled. Rosberg had a big advantage being at Mercedes for years before Lewis came. His qualifying delta to Lewis seemingly got worse with every subsequent year he spent as Hamilton's teammate. I believe Nico was an expert at setting up the car to his liking. Once Lewis figured it out himself Nico rarely could touch him on Saturdays.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:12 am 
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While I do agree with the fact that Lewis is the outright faster driver, I also think had Nico stayed and also maintain motivation, he would be closer to Hamilton than people imagine.

I think his winning year would have brought more calm to his driving and also a better approach regarding confidence.

Given Vettel was also in the mix, it would have definatelly been harder for Hamilton. As there were more drivers taking points of each other.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:16 am 
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The one factor we can't figure in, is the effect Rosberg's presence would have had on Hamilton, had Rosberg stayed on, and especially if the car would have suited him. But he is enjoying his retirement, and that too tells us something.

I think, provided he would have had a refreshing winter 2016-2017, and the hunger to attack the new season, he might well have felt liberated and done a fantastic job. I was a bit sad he left, but not everybody is after multiple championships.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:21 am 
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Fiki wrote:
The one factor we can't figure in, is the effect Rosberg's presence would have had on Hamilton, had Rosberg stayed on, and especially if the car would have suited him. But he is enjoying his retirement, and that too tells us something.

I think, provided he would have had a refreshing winter 2016-2017, and the hunger to attack the new season, he might well have felt liberated and done a fantastic job. I was a bit sad he left, but not everybody is after multiple championships.


There are lots of factors we can't figure in. Near the end of 2016, Rosberg had won 9 races to Hamilton's 6, and Rosberg had moved aside to let Hamilton past at Monaco for one of Hamilton's wins. The data from then on was affected by Rosberg not needing to win another race in 2016.

Rosberg adopted a more aggressive attitude in 2016, and that could have been a factor in him winning the World Championship. I think it had quite an affect on Hamilton to not be the more aggressive driver. If Rosberg had continued that into 2017 and the team had let him, I think the outcome would have been even more unpredictable than it already was.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:39 pm 
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If Hamilton’s last 4wins weren’t representative then most of NIco’s 9 weren’t either.

9 wins

3- Hamilton starts P10,P20 and P20 due to engine issues
3- Hamilton blows the start from a dominant pole.
1- Hamilton misses nearly all running in P2 and P3 due to break down and P1 is in daylight (Singapore)
1- Hamilton crashes in qualifying and starts P10

Japan, Nico did win from pole though and he was strong in Germany qualifying too.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:18 pm 
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babararacucudada wrote:
Fiki wrote:
The one factor we can't figure in, is the effect Rosberg's presence would have had on Hamilton, had Rosberg stayed on, and especially if the car would have suited him. But he is enjoying his retirement, and that too tells us something.

I think, provided he would have had a refreshing winter 2016-2017, and the hunger to attack the new season, he might well have felt liberated and done a fantastic job. I was a bit sad he left, but not everybody is after multiple championships.


There are lots of factors we can't figure in. Near the end of 2016, Rosberg had won 9 races to Hamilton's 6, and Rosberg had moved aside to let Hamilton past at Monaco for one of Hamilton's wins. The data from then on was affected by Rosberg not needing to win another race in 2016.

Rosberg adopted a more aggressive attitude in 2016, and that could have been a factor in him winning the World Championship. I think it had quite an affect on Hamilton to not be the more aggressive driver. If Rosberg had continued that into 2017 and the team had let him, I think the outcome would have been even more unpredictable than it already was.
In a roundabout way, your post reminded me of something; when I heard Rosberg was going to retire, it struck me that in certain respects Lauda's penultimate year and Rosberg's final one show parallels. How I would love to talk to these two! And I can't help but wonder whether Rosberg wanted to avoid having a final year too many, as Lauda unfortunately suffered. In both cases, how the team managed their drivers was a prime factor.

Perhaps it was your "if the team had let him" that did it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:
Fiki wrote:
The one factor we can't figure in, is the effect Rosberg's presence would have had on Hamilton, had Rosberg stayed on, and especially if the car would have suited him. But he is enjoying his retirement, and that too tells us something.

I think, provided he would have had a refreshing winter 2016-2017, and the hunger to attack the new season, he might well have felt liberated and done a fantastic job. I was a bit sad he left, but not everybody is after multiple championships.


There are lots of factors we can't figure in. Near the end of 2016, Rosberg had won 9 races to Hamilton's 6, and Rosberg had moved aside to let Hamilton past at Monaco for one of Hamilton's wins. The data from then on was affected by Rosberg not needing to win another race in 2016.

Rosberg adopted a more aggressive attitude in 2016, and that could have been a factor in him winning the World Championship. I think it had quite an affect on Hamilton to not be the more aggressive driver. If Rosberg had continued that into 2017 and the team had let him, I think the outcome would have been even more unpredictable than it already was.
In a roundabout way, your post reminded me of something; when I heard Rosberg was going to retire, it struck me that in certain respects Lauda's penultimate year and Rosberg's final one show parallels. How I would love to talk to these two! And I can't help but wonder whether Rosberg wanted to avoid having a final year too many, as Lauda unfortunately suffered. In both cases, how the team managed their drivers was a prime factor.

Perhaps it was your "if the team had let him" that did it.


Max can be pretty aggressive, so if he gets a competitive car next year, we should see how Hamilton manages against that.

I think Rosberg only became aggressive out of necessity and neither he nor the team enjoyed it. The team's 'rules' that it was OK to force your team mate off the track but it wasn't OK to make contact was at the hub of that.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Not a popular thought, but I think one the main reasons Rosberg left is because he knew that he probably wouldn't beat Hamilton again. He realized that was his only chance and he took it and called it a day. He even admitted after he retired that at the end of 2016 that is the best he had seen Lewis drive. He knows that when Lewis is at his best he cannot touch him, so why go through another year of that when he probably knows what will most likely happen? I do not count Rosberg out for a return to the grid. I think if he gets an opportunity in the right car he will take it in a heartbeat. But I doubt he wants to be Lewis's teammate ever again.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:25 pm 
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Sometimes you just give up a career because you have reached the heights of it and you can't go further. I did it myself after 25 years of programming when I felt I wasn't growing/learning any more and it was becoming a bit samey every day. He like I probably wants to conquer new worlds and challenges.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:47 pm 
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mas wrote:
Sometimes you just give up a career because you have reached the heights of it and you can't go further. I did it myself after 25 years of programming when I felt I wasn't growing/learning any more and it was becoming a bit samey every day. He like I probably wants to conquer new worlds and challenges.

I would believe that if he hadn't spent the last few months commenting on F1.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Seems like a lot of these comments forget how poor the start to Hamilton's season was. IF Rosberg was there, he would have done better than Bottas, who did very well at the start but also, Lewis may have had more focus earlier on instead of waiting 5 months to turn it on.

Another thing people aren't saying is how Mercedes has admitted how they developed the car through the season did not favour Bottas. Rosberg would have done much better having been with the team for so long. It's conceivable Rosberg could have gotten to grips with it even better than Hamilton did.

A lot of iff's but I don't get how anyone can say with certainty that Hamilton would have whipped Rosberg. Myself would wager that Hamilton would have been more motivated if Rosberg was there since the beginning but you never really know.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:42 pm 
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Bentrovato wrote:
Seems like a lot of these comments forget how poor the start to Hamilton's season was. IF Rosberg was there, he would have done better than Bottas, who did very well at the start but also, Lewis may have had more focus earlier on instead of waiting 5 months to turn it on.

Another thing people aren't saying is how Mercedes has admitted how they developed the car through the season did not favour Bottas. Rosberg would have done much better having been with the team for so long. It's conceivable Rosberg could have gotten to grips with it even better than Hamilton did.

A lot of iff's but I don't get how anyone can say with certainty that Hamilton would have whipped Rosberg. Myself would wager that Hamilton would have been more motivated if Rosberg was there since the beginning but you never really know.


I don't agree with that. Hamilton was not poor in the first part of the season. He had 2 bad races in the first 6 but also 4 very good ones in which he maximised the car.

Hamilton has also effectively dominated the season there after - from Canada on wards, which was just 2 and a half months into it. He has won 7 races, Vettel 1, Bottas 1, Ricciardo 1 and Verstappen 2 during that period.

Rosbergs was only ever able to challenge Hamilton when he had worse reliability (first 2/3's of 2014) and basically all of 2016. Hamilton with a bulletproof car becomes very hard, if not impossible for Rosberg to beat over a season - especially if Nico took a DNF in Spain like Bottas.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:54 pm 
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Bentrovato wrote:
Another thing people aren't saying is how Mercedes has admitted how they developed the car through the season did not favour Bottas. Rosberg would have done much better having been with the team for so long. It's conceivable Rosberg could have gotten to grips with it even better than Hamilton did.


I have to say I have little time for Rosberg, in my eyes every sporting champion should give his challengers the opportunity to win back the trophy. It would have been so easy to have done that, he could just as easily proved how good he was at setting up cars in whatever format. Conjecture about "who is best" should be across time periods or perhaps because of injury or illness. When you can do it but avoid the challenge it says much about your personality!

As for coming back to F1, (has he said he want's to?) in my view he has had his chance, I'd rather see Verstappen, Ocon and Wehrlein jousting than Rosberg denying them the opportunity.

I often wonder how some of the established drivers would do against the up and coming drivers in the lower Formulas.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:43 pm 
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mas wrote:
Sometimes you just give up a career because you have reached the heights of it and you can't go further. I did it myself after 25 years of programming when I felt I wasn't growing/learning any more and it was becoming a bit samey every day. He like I probably wants to conquer new worlds and challenges.


That seems to be similar to what Nico is saying.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13286 ... compliment


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:51 am 
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To me he looks demob-happy rather than scared of losing. He's now officially as good as his father (important for any son), rich, nice family, he now has the rest of his life doing whatever takes his fancy. He never struck me as a natural driven racer like say Hamilton, Alonso and now Verstappen. He just happened to be pretty good at it while he was in it and uniquely there can never be another driver who can say he managed to put manners on both Shumacher and Hamilton on his best days. Wish the guy well for what he did in F1 and let him be.

p.s. James Hunt also lost his motivation after reaching the summit and he was pretty spectacular in his day and no-one could really accuse him of being scared of anything.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:30 am 
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I don't think Nico left out of fear. I think the James Hunt comparison is apt. He had achieved his goal and was no longer willing to make the sacrifices necessary to do it again. Rosberg walked away from a top drive and a big paycheck so I think it must have been hard on him to compete at the level he was competing at for those years against Hamilton. It was a vicious rivalry. To win a WDC against the odds is a great crowning achievement and I think he was closer to Lewis on pace than any teammate Lewis has had other than perhaps Alonso. He also bested Schumacher convincingly (albeit an old Schumacher). Nico has bettered his father's career IMO.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:59 am 
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If Rosberg was even half as terrified of Hamilton as this forum suggests, he would have retired at the end of 2012.

pokerman wrote:
Rosberg pushed Hamilton off the track in Australia 2015.

I assume you mean Australia 2016, but no, that was not done on purpose. Rosberg locked up trying to outbrake Vettel in Turn 1 and even apologized after the race for compromising Lewis.

What Lewis did at USA 2015 was deliberate, he opened up the steering wheel.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:59 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
If Rosberg was even half as terrified of Hamilton as this forum suggests, he would have retired at the end of 2012.

pokerman wrote:
Rosberg pushed Hamilton off the track in Australia 2015.

I assume you mean Australia 2016, but no, that was not done on purpose. Rosberg locked up trying to outbrake Vettel in Turn 1 and even apologized after the race for compromising Lewis.

What Lewis did at USA 2015 was deliberate, he opened up the steering wheel.

You get what you give. No difference between in Suzuka 2015 and Oz 2016 in my book

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:48 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
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mcdo wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
If Rosberg was even half as terrified of Hamilton as this forum suggests, he would have retired at the end of 2012.

pokerman wrote:
Rosberg pushed Hamilton off the track in Australia 2015.

I assume you mean Australia 2016, but no, that was not done on purpose. Rosberg locked up trying to outbrake Vettel in Turn 1 and even apologized after the race for compromising Lewis.

What Lewis did at USA 2015 was deliberate, he opened up the steering wheel.

You get what you give. No difference between in Suzuka 2015 and Oz 2016 in my book


Same to me, but I think Mercedes have a bit to answer for as they made it - whoever was ahead after the first turns, won the races. No options for alternative strategies or anything. It made the run to turn 1, basically the race.

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