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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:36 pm 
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moby wrote:
pokerman wrote:
moby wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per this article, Japanese Grand Prix is Palmer's final grand prix in Renault:
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/359428/palmer-japan-my-last-race-for-renault/

Although, Renault haven't announced anything yet. Palmer made this statement on 1 of his photos on Instagram.

I guess that means that Gasly will not finish out the season in the Japanese Super Formula series?



Is 'my last race' for Renault' relevant? maybe a part time job filling in for PG?
We will not know what sweeteners were offered for him to step out early

Edit

Pierre Gasly will race for the Toro Rosso Formula 1 team in the United States Grand Prix, as Carlos Sainz moves to Renault to replace Jolyon Palmer.

Motorsport.com

The sweetener was apparently $5-7M.


Is that not his own money back?
I mean he paid X to drive the season and refused to get out of the seat, so they give him 4 races worth back, or 4 race worth and a thank you and good bye envelope.

Yes it is but it just stops his season from being a complete right off, I reckon they paid him back about half he paid.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:48 pm 
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I'm not the least bit surprised to see Kvyat back, mainly because I fully expected him to be racing again for Toro Rosso next year.

It certainly does Kvyat no harm that the only realistic replacement (Matsushita) had another poor F2 race, running out of tyres and then losing his front wing (as well as bumping out woeful Haas junior Santino Ferrucci) on his way to an 18th place finish. It leaves him 47 points behind 3rd placed Artem Markelov, who starts 3rd in tomorrow's sprint race. Assuming Matsushita doesn't make it to the points, a 7th place or higher for Markelov will mean the Russian is 49 points ahead with just 48 remaining. It would end Matsushita's hopes of finishing in the top 3 of the standings, which means he can't obtain the Superlicense points he needs to qualify for one, which should mean he's not eligible to race in F1 in 2018. Besides, the way things are going he's more likely to drop behind Fuoco and finish 7th than catch any of the guys ahead of him.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:01 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
I'm not the least bit surprised to see Kvyat back, mainly because I fully expected him to be racing again for Toro Rosso next year.

It certainly does Kvyat no harm that the only realistic replacement (Matsushita) had another poor F2 race, running out of tyres and then losing his front wing (as well as bumping out woeful Haas junior Santino Ferrucci) on his way to an 18th place finish. It leaves him 47 points behind 3rd placed Artem Markelov, who starts 3rd in tomorrow's sprint race. Assuming Matsushita doesn't make it to the points, a 7th place or higher for Markelov will mean the Russian is 49 points ahead with just 48 remaining. It would end Matsushita's hopes of finishing in the top 3 of the standings, which means he can't obtain the Superlicense points he needs to qualify for one, which should mean he's not eligible to race in F1 in 2018. Besides, the way things are going he's more likely to drop behind Fuoco and finish 7th than catch any of the guys ahead of him.

His collision with Ferrucci was just bonehead driving, there's no improvement left in him and he will never be F1 ready, I wouldn't surprise to see him dropped from F2 next season by Honda and replaced by GP3 driver Fukuzumi who is running high in the standings.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:58 pm 
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I really like Fukuzumi. He's a good candidate for a 2019 seat I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Llotyhy wrote:
I really like Fukuzumi. He's a good candidate for a 2019 seat I think.


I know its not politically correct, but I just love that name for a Japanese racing driver :]


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:23 pm 
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moby wrote:
Llotyhy wrote:
I really like Fukuzumi. He's a good candidate for a 2019 seat I think.


I know its not politically correct, but I just love that name for a Japanese racing driver :]

I guess it has that Austin Powers wit to it? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:33 am 
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If both Ricciardo and Verstappen leave Red Bull at the end of 2018, could Red Bull turn to Alonso?

Red Bull obviously have Sainz who is very good, but other than that they don't have anyone in their youth academy. Gasly is surely not ready to take the next step yet, and Kvyat's F1 career is pretty much over.

Alonso is also good friends with Sainz from what I've seen, so they could get along well as teammates.

The real question is whether Red Bull would value Alonso's WDC experience or whether they'd go for someone younger and on lower wages.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:58 am 
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As Red Bull are looking to deleverage from F1 it's highly unlikely they will want to spend 20m+ on Alonso for a possible extra two tenths and a lot more attitude.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:23 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
If both Ricciardo and Verstappen leave Red Bull at the end of 2018, could Red Bull turn to Alonso?

Red Bull obviously have Sainz who is very good, but other than that they don't have anyone in their youth academy. Gasly is surely not ready to take the next step yet, and Kvyat's F1 career is pretty much over.

Alonso is also good friends with Sainz from what I've seen, so they could get along well as teammates.

The real question is whether Red Bull would value Alonso's WDC experience or whether they'd go for someone younger and on lower wages.

I wouldn't be surprised to see such a move, but at the same time if both Ricciardo and Verstappen see fit to leave at the end of 2018 then you'd have to question the future of the Red Bull team.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:29 am 
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GingerFurball wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
If both Ricciardo and Verstappen leave Red Bull at the end of 2018, could Red Bull turn to Alonso?

Red Bull obviously have Sainz who is very good, but other than that they don't have anyone in their youth academy. Gasly is surely not ready to take the next step yet, and Kvyat's F1 career is pretty much over.

Alonso is also good friends with Sainz from what I've seen, so they could get along well as teammates.

The real question is whether Red Bull would value Alonso's WDC experience or whether they'd go for someone younger and on lower wages.

I wouldn't be surprised to see such a move, but at the same time if both Ricciardo and Verstappen see fit to leave at the end of 2018 then you'd have to question the future of the Red Bull team.


I think it comes down to Red Bull not being big payers. They will both earn more at Mercedes and Ferrari. When Red Bull were winning they could get away with paying less because drivers want the best chance of success. Now they are not wining regularly and don't seem to have a competitive engine deal on the horizon they need to do something else to make themselves a more attractive proposition.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:46 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
If both Ricciardo and Verstappen leave Red Bull at the end of 2018, could Red Bull turn to Alonso?

Red Bull obviously have Sainz who is very good, but other than that they don't have anyone in their youth academy. Gasly is surely not ready to take the next step yet, and Kvyat's F1 career is pretty much over.

Alonso is also good friends with Sainz from what I've seen, so they could get along well as teammates.

The real question is whether Red Bull would value Alonso's WDC experience or whether they'd go for someone younger and on lower wages.

I wouldn't be surprised to see such a move, but at the same time if both Ricciardo and Verstappen see fit to leave at the end of 2018 then you'd have to question the future of the Red Bull team.


I think it comes down to Red Bull not being big payers. They will both earn more at Mercedes and Ferrari. When Red Bull were winning they could get away with paying less because drivers want the best chance of success. Now they are not wining regularly and don't seem to have a competitive engine deal on the horizon they need to do something else to make themselves a more attractive proposition.

Red Bull haven't been big payers because they haven't needed to be. They've had a production line of drivers to come in to replace drivers already in F1 and the only driver to date to have left Red Bull for pastures new in F1 is Vettel (incidentally I don't think they'd have gotten away with paying a double World champion buttons when he renegotiated his contract in 2011)

Now the talent pool at Red Bull has dried up, I doubt they'll be as blasé about losing Verstappen or Ricciardo as they were about losing Webber and Vettel because the talent isn't there in their junior teams to replace both drivers. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one, possibly both drivers are offered far more money than Red Bull have tended to pay.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:25 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
If both Ricciardo and Verstappen leave Red Bull at the end of 2018, could Red Bull turn to Alonso?

Red Bull obviously have Sainz who is very good, but other than that they don't have anyone in their youth academy. Gasly is surely not ready to take the next step yet, and Kvyat's F1 career is pretty much over.

Alonso is also good friends with Sainz from what I've seen, so they could get along well as teammates.

The real question is whether Red Bull would value Alonso's WDC experience or whether they'd go for someone younger and on lower wages.

Alonso back with Honda engines?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:16 am 
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mas wrote:
As Red Bull are looking to deleverage from F1 it's highly unlikely they will want to spend 20m+ on Alonso for a possible extra two tenths and a lot more attitude.

This. I think Red Bull racing's days are numbered now. My guess is that they won't be around when the rules change in 2021. Perhaps the most likely scenario is a large manufacturer buying them so that they can come into F1 from a position of relative strength. I've heard rumors of Porsche...


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:33 am 
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pokerman wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
If both Ricciardo and Verstappen leave Red Bull at the end of 2018, could Red Bull turn to Alonso?

Red Bull obviously have Sainz who is very good, but other than that they don't have anyone in their youth academy. Gasly is surely not ready to take the next step yet, and Kvyat's F1 career is pretty much over.

Alonso is also good friends with Sainz from what I've seen, so they could get along well as teammates.

The real question is whether Red Bull would value Alonso's WDC experience or whether they'd go for someone younger and on lower wages.

Alonso back with Honda engines?


He went back to Mclaren. Erm, and Renault :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:07 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
mas wrote:
As Red Bull are looking to deleverage from F1 it's highly unlikely they will want to spend 20m+ on Alonso for a possible extra two tenths and a lot more attitude.

This. I think Red Bull racing's days are numbered now. My guess is that they won't be around when the rules change in 2021. Perhaps the most likely scenario is a large manufacturer buying them so that they can come into F1 from a position of relative strength. I've heard rumors of Porsche...


I think Aston Martin becoming the naming rights sponsor next year is Phase 1 of a planned AM takeover. Next step will be works team with Red Bull sponsorship.

My question is will AM take over the Jnr program, or is the well drying up as a result of Red Bull phasing themselves out?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:30 pm 
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bradtheboywonder wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mas wrote:
As Red Bull are looking to deleverage from F1 it's highly unlikely they will want to spend 20m+ on Alonso for a possible extra two tenths and a lot more attitude.

This. I think Red Bull racing's days are numbered now. My guess is that they won't be around when the rules change in 2021. Perhaps the most likely scenario is a large manufacturer buying them so that they can come into F1 from a position of relative strength. I've heard rumors of Porsche...


I think Aston Martin becoming the naming rights sponsor next year is Phase 1 of a planned AM takeover. Next step will be works team with Red Bull sponsorship.

My question is will AM take over the Jnr program, or is the well drying up as a result of Red Bull phasing themselves out?


Well Aston Martin is now run by Dave Richards, of Prodrive, who always wanted to be in F1.

They now have backing off 2 Kuwaitis (Dar?), so it is looking quite possible they can get things off the ground.

Do Ford still have a finger in the pie there? Maybe they can be persuaded to get involved in the new 'low cost ' engine either directly or indirectly, say through Cosworth again?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:58 pm 
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Horner saying that Verstappen can build a team around him at Red Bull. Does this mean they have conceded the fact that Ricciardo will leave, or perhaps simply just making their best effort to keep at least one of their drivers, and putting the eggs in the Verstappen basket?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:03 am 
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WHoff78 wrote:
Horner saying that Verstappen can build a team around him at Red Bull. Does this mean they have conceded the fact that Ricciardo will leave, or perhaps simply just making their best effort to keep at least one of their drivers, and putting the eggs in the Verstappen basket?

Seems a bit harsh on Ricciardo, but it seems that Red Bull feel the future is Verstappen. It looks to me to be a statement that they are focusing on him, now.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:09 am 
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Zoue wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
Horner saying that Verstappen can build a team around him at Red Bull. Does this mean they have conceded the fact that Ricciardo will leave, or perhaps simply just making their best effort to keep at least one of their drivers, and putting the eggs in the Verstappen basket?

Seems a bit harsh on Ricciardo, but it seems that Red Bull feel the future is Verstappen. It looks to me to be a statement that they are focusing on him, now.

Agree that it seems harsh. I guess what we don't know is what the drivers are saying to Horner. DR is getting older, and may well have told them that he feels if he doesn't move now then he may lose his chance. Anyone's guess though, and a lot could change between now and 2019.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:12 am 
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WHoff78 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
Horner saying that Verstappen can build a team around him at Red Bull. Does this mean they have conceded the fact that Ricciardo will leave, or perhaps simply just making their best effort to keep at least one of their drivers, and putting the eggs in the Verstappen basket?

Seems a bit harsh on Ricciardo, but it seems that Red Bull feel the future is Verstappen. It looks to me to be a statement that they are focusing on him, now.

Agree that it seems harsh. I guess what we don't know is what the drivers are saying to Horner. DR is getting older, and may well have told them that he feels if he doesn't move now then he may lose his chance. Anyone's guess though, and a lot could change between now and 2019.

Yeah we don't know the situation the way that they do on any front. They have access to the data and might already be convinced that there is a meaningful difference between Daniel and Max. They also might know that Daniel intends to leave unless the car is at the front next year.

Daniel's age is definitely something to consider. I feel he managed to play his cards slightly wrong by re-signing with them when he did. The writing was already on the wall and it took him out of position to capitalize when Nico retired unexpectedly. Daniel was reportedly the guy Mercedes wanted to bring in but his contract was air-tight and Red Bull were not giving him up. He's 28 now. That's not young by F1 standards. He's in his prime and he really needs to be more aggressive about positioning himself to win a title. A move to Ferrari or Mercedes in 2019 is almost certain unless the competitive balance shifts in Red Bull's favor next year.

On a side note; I really feel like racing for RBR is becoming a shaky proposition. They are not in a position of strength in this era where the PU is so important and the future seems uncertain for them. They may not be around much longer.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:31 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
Horner saying that Verstappen can build a team around him at Red Bull. Does this mean they have conceded the fact that Ricciardo will leave, or perhaps simply just making their best effort to keep at least one of their drivers, and putting the eggs in the Verstappen basket?

Seems a bit harsh on Ricciardo, but it seems that Red Bull feel the future is Verstappen. It looks to me to be a statement that they are focusing on him, now.

Agree that it seems harsh. I guess what we don't know is what the drivers are saying to Horner. DR is getting older, and may well have told them that he feels if he doesn't move now then he may lose his chance. Anyone's guess though, and a lot could change between now and 2019.

Yeah we don't know the situation the way that they do on any front. They have access to the data and might already be convinced that there is a meaningful difference between Daniel and Max. They also might know that Daniel intends to leave unless the car is at the front next year.

Daniel's age is definitely something to consider. I feel he managed to play his cards slightly wrong by re-signing with them when he did. The writing was already on the wall and it took him out of position to capitalize when Nico retired unexpectedly. Daniel was reportedly the guy Mercedes wanted to bring in but his contract was air-tight and Red Bull were not giving him up. He's 28 now. That's not young by F1 standards. He's in his prime and he really needs to be more aggressive about positioning himself to win a title. A move to Ferrari or Mercedes in 2019 is almost certain unless the competitive balance shifts in Red Bull's favor next year.

On a side note; I really feel like racing for RBR is becoming a shaky proposition. They are not in a position of strength in this era where the PU is so important and the future seems uncertain for them. They may not be around much longer.



It does make me wonder if DR knows what is happening on the engine front, and maybe Max is willing to invest a couple of years into developing a winner while DR has fewer years left and wants results now ?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:33 pm 
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I don't see how this is harsh on Ricciardo sense he was never mentioned. If he said that they could build a team around Max in way that they couldn't with Dan that would be different but that's not what he said.

Based on the PF1 article, that I'm assuming the posted quote came from, it could be seen as being harsh on Max because he says that Max could be overshadowed by Lewis or Seb if he joined them at the teams they're settled in at.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:35 pm 
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I actually hope that's its more red bulls attempt to cling on to one of the two, because I would love to see DR at Ferrari and Max at Mercedes in 2019.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:15 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
Horner saying that Verstappen can build a team around him at Red Bull. Does this mean they have conceded the fact that Ricciardo will leave, or perhaps simply just making their best effort to keep at least one of their drivers, and putting the eggs in the Verstappen basket?

Seems a bit harsh on Ricciardo, but it seems that Red Bull feel the future is Verstappen. It looks to me to be a statement that they are focusing on him, now.

Yep Verstappen is younger and he is the bigger talent.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:18 pm 
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moby wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
Horner saying that Verstappen can build a team around him at Red Bull. Does this mean they have conceded the fact that Ricciardo will leave, or perhaps simply just making their best effort to keep at least one of their drivers, and putting the eggs in the Verstappen basket?

Seems a bit harsh on Ricciardo, but it seems that Red Bull feel the future is Verstappen. It looks to me to be a statement that they are focusing on him, now.

Agree that it seems harsh. I guess what we don't know is what the drivers are saying to Horner. DR is getting older, and may well have told them that he feels if he doesn't move now then he may lose his chance. Anyone's guess though, and a lot could change between now and 2019.

Yeah we don't know the situation the way that they do on any front. They have access to the data and might already be convinced that there is a meaningful difference between Daniel and Max. They also might know that Daniel intends to leave unless the car is at the front next year.

Daniel's age is definitely something to consider. I feel he managed to play his cards slightly wrong by re-signing with them when he did. The writing was already on the wall and it took him out of position to capitalize when Nico retired unexpectedly. Daniel was reportedly the guy Mercedes wanted to bring in but his contract was air-tight and Red Bull were not giving him up. He's 28 now. That's not young by F1 standards. He's in his prime and he really needs to be more aggressive about positioning himself to win a title. A move to Ferrari or Mercedes in 2019 is almost certain unless the competitive balance shifts in Red Bull's favor next year.

On a side note; I really feel like racing for RBR is becoming a shaky proposition. They are not in a position of strength in this era where the PU is so important and the future seems uncertain for them. They may not be around much longer.



It does make me wonder if DR knows what is happening on the engine front, and maybe Max is willing to invest a couple of years into developing a winner while DR has fewer years left and wants results now ?

I get the impression that Verstappen doesn't want to wait around for anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:20 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
I don't see how this is harsh on Ricciardo sense he was never mentioned. If he said that they could build a team around Max in way that they couldn't with Dan that would be different but that's not what he said.

Based on the PF1 article, that I'm assuming the posted quote came from, it could be seen as being harsh on Max because he says that Max could be overshadowed by Lewis or Seb if he joined them at the teams they're settled in at.

I would say that sounds more like Horner playing politics on the behalf of Red Bull as usual.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:22 pm 
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WHoff78 wrote:
I actually hope that's its more red bulls attempt to cling on to one of the two, because I would love to see DR at Ferrari and Max at Mercedes in 2019.

I'm quite certain that Verstappen has a contract with Red Bull for 2019.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:36 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
I don't see how this is harsh on Ricciardo sense he was never mentioned. If he said that they could build a team around Max in way that they couldn't with Dan that would be different but that's not what he said.

Based on the PF1 article, that I'm assuming the posted quote came from, it could be seen as being harsh on Max because he says that Max could be overshadowed by Lewis or Seb if he joined them at the teams they're settled in at.

I'm not sure how it could be seen to be anything negative against Max. That's taking the Machievelian double talk a bit far.

I see it as harsh only because it's effectively saying Max is the future, so for Ricciardo to hear it expressed like that out in the open must be a bit of a kicker. Nothing more than that, really


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:57 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
I actually hope that's its more red bulls attempt to cling on to one of the two, because I would love to see DR at Ferrari and Max at Mercedes in 2019.

I'm quite certain that Verstappen has a contract with Red Bull for 2019.

You are probably right but thought I heard rumours that he may have a release clause if they are not in the top 3 in the WCC. Of course that would be irrelevant if that is for 2017. If nothing else there is some smoke.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:10 pm 
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WHoff78 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
I actually hope that's its more red bulls attempt to cling on to one of the two, because I would love to see DR at Ferrari and Max at Mercedes in 2019.

I'm quite certain that Verstappen has a contract with Red Bull for 2019.

You are probably right but thought I heard rumours that he may have a release clause if they are not in the top 3 in the WCC. Of course that would be irrelevant if that is for 2017. If nothing else there is some smoke.

What's the odds of Red Bull finishing lower than 3rd in the WCC?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:12 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
I actually hope that's its more red bulls attempt to cling on to one of the two, because I would love to see DR at Ferrari and Max at Mercedes in 2019.

I'm quite certain that Verstappen has a contract with Red Bull for 2019.

You are probably right but thought I heard rumours that he may have a release clause if they are not in the top 3 in the WCC. Of course that would be irrelevant if that is for 2017. If nothing else there is some smoke.

What's the odds of Red Bull finishing lower than 3rd in the WCC?


Mclaren have Renault engines next year as well.... Could happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:17 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
I actually hope that's its more red bulls attempt to cling on to one of the two, because I would love to see DR at Ferrari and Max at Mercedes in 2019.

I'm quite certain that Verstappen has a contract with Red Bull for 2019.

You are probably right but thought I heard rumours that he may have a release clause if they are not in the top 3 in the WCC. Of course that would be irrelevant if that is for 2017. If nothing else there is some smoke.

What's the odds of Red Bull finishing lower than 3rd in the WCC?


Mclaren have Renault engines next year as well.... Could happen.

I see McLaren as being perennial under achievers.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:02 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
I actually hope that's its more red bulls attempt to cling on to one of the two, because I would love to see DR at Ferrari and Max at Mercedes in 2019.

I'm quite certain that Verstappen has a contract with Red Bull for 2019.

Horner has stated in an interview on either Sky or Channel 4 that while Vettel renegotiated his contract after winning his 2nd title to include a get out clause, both Ricciardo and Verstappen are on what he called 'development driver' contracts where no such clause exists.

For me this adds fuel to the idea that Ricciardo will not be at Red Bull for 2019.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:30 pm 
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Renault clearly have there own aspirations and are quietly closing the gap. That said red Bull have had a strong last couple of races.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:39 pm 
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If Verstappen makes a big enough fuss he will be out. See Sainz.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:55 pm 
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I think it very unlikely Max will have any sort of release clause in his contract. He was an untested unknown with few (if any) other options in a top car. He, and his dad, would probably have taken just about anything that was reasonably long term in a competitive drive as a long-ish contract would have meant stability and a guaranteed development curve.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:07 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
pokerman wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
I actually hope that's its more red bulls attempt to cling on to one of the two, because I would love to see DR at Ferrari and Max at Mercedes in 2019.

I'm quite certain that Verstappen has a contract with Red Bull for 2019.

Horner has stated in an interview on either Sky or Channel 4 that while Vettel renegotiated his contract after winning his 2nd title to include a get out clause, both Ricciardo and Verstappen are on what he called 'development driver' contracts where no such clause exists.

For me this adds fuel to the idea that Ricciardo will not be at Red Bull for 2019.

Ricciardo is a free agent for 2019 but I don't see why that in itself implies he will leave Red Bull?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:09 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
If Verstappen makes a big enough fuss he will be out. See Sainz.

Is Sainz out, he's apparently only out on loan?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:51 am 
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pokerman wrote:
moby wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Seems a bit harsh on Ricciardo, but it seems that Red Bull feel the future is Verstappen. It looks to me to be a statement that they are focusing on him, now.

Agree that it seems harsh. I guess what we don't know is what the drivers are saying to Horner. DR is getting older, and may well have told them that he feels if he doesn't move now then he may lose his chance. Anyone's guess though, and a lot could change between now and 2019.

Yeah we don't know the situation the way that they do on any front. They have access to the data and might already be convinced that there is a meaningful difference between Daniel and Max. They also might know that Daniel intends to leave unless the car is at the front next year.

Daniel's age is definitely something to consider. I feel he managed to play his cards slightly wrong by re-signing with them when he did. The writing was already on the wall and it took him out of position to capitalize when Nico retired unexpectedly. Daniel was reportedly the guy Mercedes wanted to bring in but his contract was air-tight and Red Bull were not giving him up. He's 28 now. That's not young by F1 standards. He's in his prime and he really needs to be more aggressive about positioning himself to win a title. A move to Ferrari or Mercedes in 2019 is almost certain unless the competitive balance shifts in Red Bull's favor next year.

On a side note; I really feel like racing for RBR is becoming a shaky proposition. They are not in a position of strength in this era where the PU is so important and the future seems uncertain for them. They may not be around much longer.



It does make me wonder if DR knows what is happening on the engine front, and maybe Max is willing to invest a couple of years into developing a winner while DR has fewer years left and wants results now ?

I get the impression that Verstappen doesn't want to wait around for anything.


I agree. If Red Bull are still the third best team next year I think we'll hear an awful lot from Max (and no doubt Jos as well) trying to engineer a move away from Red Bull. Particularly if it looks like his teammate might be about to take one of the seats at Ferrari or Mercedes.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:47 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
If Verstappen makes a big enough fuss he will be out. See Sainz.

Is Sainz out, he's apparently only out on loan?


Pretty sure Red Bull insisted he would be driving for STR in 2018. Sainz said he would be driving elsewhere. Who got what they wanted?


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