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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:28 am 
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Exediron wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
1.8 seconds slower than Red Bull with the same engine

It seems McLaren was also slower than Renault in Bahrain.

Really, that's the impression you got? Alonso was glued to Hulk practically the whole race, and made multiple attempts to overtake him. If he'd been in front, he would have built a gap easily.

McLaren was slower than Renault in qualifying, but not in the race.

I don't think he was glued. Hulk for most of race maintained some few seconds gap.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:26 am 
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I just read this headline - "Alonso: We need to raise our game" and thought it sounded familiar

http://www.f1zone.net/news/alonso-ferrari-will-have-to-raise-its-game/30666/

Fernando said this in 2014 before leaving Ferrari and Ferrari raised it's game in 2015.

I don't think McLaren will do what Ferrari did though. I just posted it because of the deja vu.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:34 am 
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All the more it looks like they are going down the Williams way. I hope not, Macca is a name I want to see at the top. And I'm a Ferrari fan!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:51 am 
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Every time I see this thread title, for some reason all I can think is, "Well, I'd rather have McLaren in no clothes than Flavio Briatore in swimwear..."

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:01 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Every time I see this thread title, for some reason all I can think is, "Well, I'd rather have McLaren in no clothes than Flavio Briatore in swimwear..."


Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!! :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:36 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
Exediron wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
1.8 seconds slower than Red Bull with the same engine

It seems McLaren was also slower than Renault in Bahrain.

Really, that's the impression you got? Alonso was glued to Hulk practically the whole race, and made multiple attempts to overtake him. If he'd been in front, he would have built a gap easily.

McLaren was slower than Renault in qualifying, but not in the race.

I don't think he was glued. Hulk for most of race maintained some few seconds gap.


On softer tyres until the last stint though. Alonso was matching their pace on the harder tyres for the first two stints.

It would suggest they were quicker than Renault in race trim or Alonso had a monster day.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Although on paper they have got points. So if someone has not been watching on TV it looks like Mclaren has made a huge leap. But the way I look at it Mclaren are just slow. So far they have not qualified in Q3.

In Australia Alonso got lucky. I cannot see him finishing ahead of Max and Bottas again. Haas pitstop was a disaster so if we go by performance. Alonso instead of P5 should have been P9 at best. I think Hulk would have got P9 without VSC but I am giving them benefit of the doubt.

In Bahrain Grosjean should have made it and Alonso been out in Q1 itself. In race had RBR not had DNF's and unfortunate incident at pits for Kimi. Gasly would have got P7 and Alonso P10.

May be at winter testing they were too worried about reliability and have compromised performance but they are just slow

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Although on paper they have got points. So if someone has not been watching on TV it looks like Mclaren has made a huge leap. But the way I look at it Mclaren are just slow. So far they have not qualified in Q3.

In Australia Alonso got lucky. I cannot see him finishing ahead of Max and Bottas again. Haas pitstop was a disaster so if we go by performance. Alonso instead of P5 should have been P9 at best. I think Hulk would have got P9 without VSC but I am giving them benefit of the doubt.

In Bahrain Grosjean should have made it and Alonso been out in Q1 itself. In race had RBR not had DNF's and unfortunate incident at pits for Kimi. Gasly would have got P7 and Alonso P10.

May be at winter testing they were too worried about reliability and have compromised performance but they are just slow


They are having a mare in quali, apparently tyre related with a set up mistake along the way but they are really poor on a Saturday right now.

But again Alo was quicker during the race than the Renaults. Just vintage McLaren strategy and getting spooked by Mag's early stop and only doing 16 laps on the Softs killed them really. Then got caught in two minds with one stopping or not and then did far more laps on the SS than S.

Silly but Hulj couldn't drop Alo despite a tyre advantage in the first two stints. Race pace is actually pretty good. Obviously nit where they want to be but clearly better than a Saturday. But they suck in the straights and still don't gave an S duct. There seems to be some rumblings that the car the now is a bit of a hodge podge of different concepts with parts being brought and added when they are ready in the hope they add performance but without the new nose the differing aero concepts are clashing.

Talk of practically B-spec in Baku but I think Spain is more realistic as that's when the nose was due.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:56 pm 
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It's safe to say that in the first two races, Mclaren was slower than last year Ferrari (aka HAAS 2018). Now that's a slap on face. May I add, looks also that it's slower than the Honda powered car?

Only this weekend will reveal is the newly upgraded Mclaren any better than the current one.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:09 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
It's safe to say that in the first two races, Mclaren was slower than last year Ferrari (aka HAAS 2018). Now that's a slap on face. May I add, looks also that it's slower than the Honda powered car?

Only this weekend will reveal is the newly upgraded Mclaren any better than the current one.


They're not getting the new nose until Spain I believe. Not sure what will be brought to China but it will be some job to fix those ills in a week.

I think it's going to sting until Spain at least and even then the others won't stand still.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:29 pm 
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currently splitting this topic since it has gone off topic from the original intension.

(previous comments discussing driver comparisons of schumi vs Alonso vs Hamilton vs vettel, 2012 results etc.....) that discussion can be found in this thread. http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14924&start=120

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:49 am 
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Sorry Mod T, it is easy to get derailed sometimes.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:53 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Although on paper they have got points. So if someone has not been watching on TV it looks like Mclaren has made a huge leap. But the way I look at it Mclaren are just slow. So far they have not qualified in Q3.

In Australia Alonso got lucky. I cannot see him finishing ahead of Max and Bottas again. Haas pitstop was a disaster so if we go by performance. Alonso instead of P5 should have been P9 at best. I think Hulk would have got P9 without VSC but I am giving them benefit of the doubt.

In Bahrain Grosjean should have made it and Alonso been out in Q1 itself. In race had RBR not had DNF's and unfortunate incident at pits for Kimi. Gasly would have got P7 and Alonso P10.

May be at winter testing they were too worried about reliability and have compromised performance but they are just slow


They are having a mare in quali, apparently tyre related with a set up mistake along the way but they are really poor on a Saturday right now.

But again Alo was quicker during the race than the Renaults. Just vintage McLaren strategy and getting spooked by Mag's early stop and only doing 16 laps on the Softs killed them really. Then got caught in two minds with one stopping or not and then did far more laps on the SS than S.

Silly but Hulj couldn't drop Alo despite a tyre advantage in the first two stints. Race pace is actually pretty good. Obviously nit where they want to be but clearly better than a Saturday. But they suck in the straights and still don't gave an S duct. There seems to be some rumblings that the car the now is a bit of a hodge podge of different concepts with parts being brought and added when they are ready in the hope they add performance but without the new nose the differing aero concepts are clashing.

Talk of practically B-spec in Baku but I think Spain is more realistic as that's when the nose was due.

yes I noticed that from the way both Alonso and Boullier have been talking McLaren have got virtually an all-new car being designed at the moment. It suggests they had to make significant design compromises in the switch from Honda to Renault and gives some hope that there is noticeably more performance for them to unlock at some point this year


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:59 am 
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TIL that McLaren actually surpassed Ferrari's title haul at one point.

End of 1998:
McLaren has 10 WDC and 8 WCC
Ferrari has 9 WDC and 8 WCC

End of 1999:
McLaren has 11 WDC and 8 WCC
Ferrari has 9 WDC and 9 WCC

Of course, then Schumacher happened.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:31 am 
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One feels that the the Mclaren naysayers will soon be eating humble pie.

Alonso recorded 7th fastest race lap, just 0.5s behind HAM & BOT, 0.1s behind RAI and 0.2s faster than VET with that time set on the medium tyre, compared to the others on Soft.

They're so slow they can't pass the WDC leader on the track... Oh wait!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:25 am 
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Fastest lap for sometime is misleading. It basically depends on tyres these days. But I do not know how Alonso got ahead of Haas. Sainz is also looking bad in front of Hulk. FI did not have a good race. It looked like Alonso would have finished P10 for the most part. Mclaren is pretty slow. Alonso will have to be at his best to beat Haas and Renault.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:33 am 
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The Mclaren car is just incredibly draggy. They had been getting tows from each other all weekend. Lol Not sure what the point is in doing that when fighting just to make q3.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:34 am 
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Battle Far wrote:
One feels that the the Mclaren naysayers will soon be eating humble pie.

Alonso recorded 7th fastest race lap, just 0.5s behind HAM & BOT, 0.1s behind RAI and 0.2s faster than VET with that time set on the medium tyre, compared to the others on Soft.

They're so slow they can't pass the WDC leader on the track... Oh wait!


Pretty good definition of a man clutching straws m8...

McLaren is, at the moment, not even close to Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull, thinking otherwise is delusional. Fastest laps nowadays means zilch, with all the tyre and fuel management going on its most of the time a circumstantial achievement.

Not to mention that Vettell’s Ferrari was damaged as FA observed after the race.

McLaren have no excuses now, they are running the same engine RedBull is but pace wise the former are on another planet; hard pill to swallow for a team that was claiming last year having one of the best, if not the best, chassis on the grid.

In the spirit of not being excessively hard on them, this is, up to a point, understandable as it’s a new package for them, but they either get their act straight fast or there will be no way to hide the obvious fact: they’ve lost it and they are not a top team anymore. They haven’t been for the past 6 years.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:04 am 
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I am sure McLaren will really turn a corner in Barca!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:47 am 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
I am sure McLaren will really turn a corner in Barca!

I really do think they will, but if they don't it's time to admit they have no frikkin' clue how to make the car competitive. x(

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:10 am 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
I am sure McLaren will really turn a corner in Barca!

Until last week, I was quite excited about that, too. But the recent sacking has cast doubt on how good their upgrade will be.

The narrative so far is that they had to make too many compromises in too short a time with the Renault PU and the new car - which by all accounts is practically a B spec - will be the real deal and put them back at the front. But the sacking of their technical boss doesn't tie in with this completely, as if they had confidence in their upgrade there'd be no need to make the change. Which has me worried that the long awaiting Barca upgrade will only show modest improvements. I'll never be happier to be proven wrong!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:34 am 
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Zoue wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I am sure McLaren will really turn a corner in Barca!

Until last week, I was quite excited about that, too. But the recent sacking has cast doubt on how good their upgrade will be.

The narrative so far is that they had to make too many compromises in too short a time with the Renault PU and the new car - which by all accounts is practically a B spec - will be the real deal and put them back at the front. But the sacking of their technical boss doesn't tie in with this completely, as if they had confidence in their upgrade there'd be no need to make the change. Which has me worried that the long awaiting Barca upgrade will only show modest improvements. I'll never be happier to be proven wrong!


Well, if Saward's little anecdote was really about Goss, then the state of the car probably didn't have much to do with him being relieved of his duties. Both plausible explanations either way. I really hope the Spain upgrade puts them on a level with Red Bull though, as RB have already shown they can win if the cards fall their way and having another team up there capable of causing an upset would be a godsend.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:46 am 
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Simple bit of fuzzy maths just to have fun. Let's look at last year's McLaren compared to this year. Chose China race for comparison because they've been racing there more than long enough to be consistent. So the fastest time in qualifying last year was 1:31.6. The McLaren's qualifying time was 1:34.3... Now taking the fact that according to McLaren (and a worrying number of people on here) their car last year was the fastest on the grid but the engine was holding them back. So that MUST mean that the Honda engine was holding them back to the tune of 2.7 seconds a lap.

Now this year the fastest qualifying time by a Renault powered car was Verstappen with a 1:31.7. The fastest McLaren was also worth a 1:33.2 so not only has McLaren's car slowed 1.5seconds compared to the competition, but add on the 2.7 seconds from the engine performance they've gained gives you 4.2 seconds

THEREFORE!

All McLaren has to do to win in the most dominant fashion EVER in the history of F1 is slap the Renault engine into last year's car and not even bother spending a single pound on development AT ALL! They'll be qualifying China with a 1:29.0 and lapping every single car over the course of a race!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Blackhander wrote:
Simple bit of fuzzy maths just to have fun. Let's look at last year's McLaren compared to this year. Chose China race for comparison because they've been racing there more than long enough to be consistent. So the fastest time in qualifying last year was 1:31.6. The McLaren's qualifying time was 1:34.3... Now taking the fact that according to McLaren (and a worrying number of people on here) their car last year was the fastest on the grid but the engine was holding them back. So that MUST mean that the Honda engine was holding them back to the tune of 2.7 seconds a lap.

Now this year the fastest qualifying time by a Renault powered car was Verstappen with a 1:31.7. The fastest McLaren was also worth a 1:33.2 so not only has McLaren's car slowed 1.5seconds compared to the competition, but add on the 2.7 seconds from the engine performance they've gained gives you 4.2 seconds

THEREFORE!

All McLaren has to do to win in the most dominant fashion EVER in the history of F1 is slap the Renault engine into last year's car and not even bother spending a single pound on development AT ALL! They'll be qualifying China with a 1:29.0 and lapping every single car over the course of a race!

That's some pretty dodgy reasoning there. You are aware they had to make changes to the car to accommodate the different architecture of the Renault?

The car this year is awful. No argument. The proof in McLaren's design expertise should come out after the Barcelona upgrades. If they're not significant, McLaren should be ashamed


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:53 pm 
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Mclaren is slow this year again I predicted this before the championship. I would love to see TR with Renault engine. I think they would also be on par if not ahead of them

But in all races they have kept clean and due to circumstances picked up points. So they did good job in reliability after testing. Vandoorne looked terrible all weekend but he finished P9 today same with Hartley on P10 :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:58 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Blackhander wrote:
Simple bit of fuzzy maths just to have fun. Let's look at last year's McLaren compared to this year. Chose China race for comparison because they've been racing there more than long enough to be consistent. So the fastest time in qualifying last year was 1:31.6. The McLaren's qualifying time was 1:34.3... Now taking the fact that according to McLaren (and a worrying number of people on here) their car last year was the fastest on the grid but the engine was holding them back. So that MUST mean that the Honda engine was holding them back to the tune of 2.7 seconds a lap.

Now this year the fastest qualifying time by a Renault powered car was Verstappen with a 1:31.7. The fastest McLaren was also worth a 1:33.2 so not only has McLaren's car slowed 1.5seconds compared to the competition, but add on the 2.7 seconds from the engine performance they've gained gives you 4.2 seconds

THEREFORE!

All McLaren has to do to win in the most dominant fashion EVER in the history of F1 is slap the Renault engine into last year's car and not even bother spending a single pound on development AT ALL! They'll be qualifying China with a 1:29.0 and lapping every single car over the course of a race!

That's some pretty dodgy reasoning there. You are aware they had to make changes to the car to accommodate the different architecture of the Renault?

The car this year is awful. No argument. The proof in McLaren's design expertise should come out after the Barcelona upgrades. If they're not significant, McLaren should be ashamed

So integrating the new engine results in the chassis being several seconds slower? Sorry, I don't believe it. No one that I can recall has ever lost that much time between seasons without a major shake-up of the rules. I don't see any credible evidence that last year's car was any good either, particularly when you see that Honda are not doing too badly with Toro Rosso.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:32 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I am sure McLaren will really turn a corner in Barca!

I really do think they will, but if they don't it's time to admit they have no frikkin' clue how to make the car competitive. x(


I was joking. McLaren will be hopeless come Spain.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:42 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
I am sure McLaren will really turn a corner in Barca!
Oh, it turns corners. And it goes straight. Just not as quickly as others.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:46 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I am sure McLaren will really turn a corner in Barca!
Oh, it turns corners. And it goes straight. Just not as quickly as others.


And still snatches up good finishes due to the incompetence of other teams' drivers.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:50 pm 
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j man wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Blackhander wrote:
Simple bit of fuzzy maths just to have fun. Let's look at last year's McLaren compared to this year. Chose China race for comparison because they've been racing there more than long enough to be consistent. So the fastest time in qualifying last year was 1:31.6. The McLaren's qualifying time was 1:34.3... Now taking the fact that according to McLaren (and a worrying number of people on here) their car last year was the fastest on the grid but the engine was holding them back. So that MUST mean that the Honda engine was holding them back to the tune of 2.7 seconds a lap.

Now this year the fastest qualifying time by a Renault powered car was Verstappen with a 1:31.7. The fastest McLaren was also worth a 1:33.2 so not only has McLaren's car slowed 1.5seconds compared to the competition, but add on the 2.7 seconds from the engine performance they've gained gives you 4.2 seconds

THEREFORE!

All McLaren has to do to win in the most dominant fashion EVER in the history of F1 is slap the Renault engine into last year's car and not even bother spending a single pound on development AT ALL! They'll be qualifying China with a 1:29.0 and lapping every single car over the course of a race!

That's some pretty dodgy reasoning there. You are aware they had to make changes to the car to accommodate the different architecture of the Renault?

The car this year is awful. No argument. The proof in McLaren's design expertise should come out after the Barcelona upgrades. If they're not significant, McLaren should be ashamed

So integrating the new engine results in the chassis being several seconds slower? Sorry, I don't believe it. No one that I can recall has ever lost that much time between seasons without a major shake-up of the rules. I don't see any credible evidence that last year's car was any good either, particularly when you see that Honda are not doing too badly with Toro Rosso.



McLarens situation is clear to me. It’s a car with good downforce levels so it will look good in the corners. But it has very poor aero efficiency. Incredibly draggy and slow in a straight line. Problem is the last few years the problem was attributed to solely Honda. Now they know their aero efficiency is bad and people are starting to lose their jobs. So no, I don’t expect this Spain upgrade to make any significant difference in the gap to the top 3 teams. We must realize that the others aren’t standing still.


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 7:12 pm 
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Spain is just around the corner, and Bouiller and Alondo already started making excuses. Does not look good for MCL.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 7:24 pm 
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[url][/url]
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Spain is just around the corner, and Bouiller and Alondo already started making excuses. Does not look good for MCL.


What excuses?


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 7:37 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
[url][/url]
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Spain is just around the corner, and Bouiller and Alondo already started making excuses. Does not look good for MCL.


What excuses?


Downplaying the upgrades I assume.

If you downplay them it's excuses and if you big them up you need to shut up and do you're talking on track.

This way you can criticise Alonso/McLaren whatever they say which is just too attractive an opportunity for some to miss it seems but at least proves they can't win no matter what they say.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:42 am 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
[url][/url]
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Spain is just around the corner, and Bouiller and Alondo already started making excuses. Does not look good for MCL.


What excuses?

http://www.espn.in/f1/story/_/id/234397 ... es-deliver



Ouch....


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:07 am 
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funkymonkey wrote:
http://www.espn.in/f1/story/_/id/23439796/fernando-alonso-mclaren-hope-rivals-upgrades-deliver

Ouch....

It's a sensationalist headline. What he actually said:

"Obviously in Barcelona there is a new aero package coming but I think 95 percent of the paddock is bringing a new aero package to Barcelona so maybe the gap will remain as it is or we will recover it a little bit or just lose a little bit of ground, who knows," he said. "I think it is up to us to make the package work and deliver to expectations and hopefully some others do not deliver. That is our hope."


Do you actually disagree with any of that? He's just refusing to commit to how much of an improvement it will be, not saying it won't be one. If he said it would jump them solidly into fourth people would all be mocking him for over-hyping it: sometimes you can't win.

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:01 am 
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I hope they fail themselves. I'm really tired of their constant talk. Literally all other midfield teams are more likable.


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:11 am 
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Llotyhy wrote:
I hope they fail themselves. I'm really tired of their constant talk. Literally all other midfield teams are more likable.

They have constant talk because the reporters ask them constant questions. It's not like they are issuing constant press releases.

It'd be the same if Ferrari, or Red Bull, were wallowing near the back. There is just more interest in teams who have fallen away from the top than there is in those who "normally" live in the midfield, but it's the reporters who generate those column inches. It's a little unfair to blame McLaren for simply answering questions put to them and a bit harsh to want them to fail for it!


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 4:45 pm 
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is there a picture anywhere ? I am dying to see the car :D


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 4:56 pm 
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New nose 8O

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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:14 pm 
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holy c**p . the detail on the front wing is incredible. The nose is weird to say the least, but the card does seem to have some detailing around it.

let's just hope it moves quicker.


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