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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:16 am 
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Article here based on quotes from the BBC's season review.

I really not sure what Button is trying to imply with these comments. Is he trying to reinforce the stereotype that Hamilton doesn't make rational decisions? The troubles Hamilton faced in 2012 were a big part of the reason that he left but he's also cites Brawn as the man who convinced him the Mercedes masterplan for 2014 would work.

Either way I think it's very sour eggs from Jenson. Of course it was rational to stay with McLaren for 2013 for Jenson, yet he wasn't privy to Mercedes' plans. History will show that he made the wrong choice by staying with the marquee team. Their horrifying fall from grace must anger him given he kicked the McLaren door down and got rid of their star.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:58 am 
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"I had huge belief that this was going to be the right decision. It was not a fluke, it was not a guess, because I wouldn't make a guess like that, it's a big risk."

http://www.bbc.com/sport/34694565


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:15 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
"I had huge belief that this was going to be the right decision. It was not a fluke, it was not a guess, because I wouldn't make a guess like that, it's a big risk."

http://www.bbc.com/sport/34694565

Guess, belief, faith... Always luck and risk involved however you word it.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:24 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Guess, belief, faith... Always luck and risk involved however you word it.

There is but it wasn't throwing toys out of the pram as Button seems to be implying.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:31 pm 
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"... after several weeks of persuasion by Brawn and Lauda". I can't help but wonder how emotional Schumacher must have felt, when he found out Brawn was trying to replace him. And wonder what kind of persuasion had made Schumacher come out of retirement for his second career.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:33 pm 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Guess, belief, faith... Always luck and risk involved however you word it.

There is but it wasn't throwing toys out of the pram as Button seems to be implying.

I think the truth is in the middle ground somewhere. He was willing to take a calculated risk because he wasn't happy at McLaren. Had the risk been bigger or had he been happy where he was, he wouldn't have moved.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:33 pm 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Guess, belief, faith... Always luck and risk involved however you word it.

There is but it wasn't throwing toys out of the pram as Button seems to be implying.


totally agree. Hamilton was most likely coerced and painstakingly advised of Mercs planned 'future'. Brawn must have been pivotal (perhaps Lauda too?) but in any event whatever they said to Hamilton turned out to be true. Macca could never have given Ham the same freedom and assurances - JB must know this, but he also knows that he himself was not in a position to be 'poached' and that may make him a little jealous?
I'm genuinely sad for JB and Fred, they both deserve a better car/drive - and I truly hope they get it next year, but somehow I think not, which is a real shame.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:35 pm 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Guess, belief, faith... Always luck and risk involved however you word it.

There is but it wasn't throwing toys out of the pram as Button seems to be implying.
I don't see Button implying that at all. Not in the article at least. I hope to see the season review this week, though I expect it to be filled to the brim with Hamilton-hype.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:49 pm 
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I think people look to discredit Hamilton but I believe he had the sense that stopping at McLaren was not the right thing to do, how many drivers in the past have walked away from the fastest car in F1?

He didn't expect Mercedes to be more competitive than McLaren in 2013 but he did believe in the Mercedes project from there on in particular because Mercedes were at the forefront of the Hybrid engine technology, he also believed in Ross Brawn.

Drivers like Button basically go to the teams that performed well the year before, he seems to have said a lot of negative things about Hamilton recently, the 3 years since Hamilton left McLaren have been quite dire for Button with perhaps some more pain yet to come including a pay cut for this year, that must irk him.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:53 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
"... after several weeks of persuasion by Brawn and Lauda". I can't help but wonder how emotional Schumacher must have felt, when he found out Brawn was trying to replace him. And wonder what kind of persuasion had made Schumacher come out of retirement for his second career.

I think that's reasonable simple, Schumacher came into F1 to drive for the world champion team who had just been bought out by Mercedes, Mercedes who bankrolled his entry into F1, Schumacher expected to immediately have a world title campaign.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:34 pm 
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Fair comments in my opinion. It was a will he, won't he through 2012 and then that Singapore DNF comes at a crunch point in the season and it wasn't the first time things had gone wrong. It just tipped the balance.

Quote:
History will show that he made the wrong choice by staying with the marquee team. Their horrifying fall from grace must anger him given he kicked the McLaren door down and got rid of their star


Why would Hamilton leave because of Button? He generally had the measure of Button, if McLaren had been stronger in reliability and in the pits through 2012, there is a strong chance he would have been champion. Champions love a slower team mate, even though Button was still a fine driver.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:30 pm 
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I personally wish that JB would shut up about Hamilton because whatever he says lately makes him sound like sour grapes.
How about for once in your life helping to develop your own car JB? Seriously, the guy is one of the worst development drivers I can remember, wherever he goes the car usually ends up worse. Now 5 years at Mclaren and he has helped turning them into a back marker car. Mclaren should think about replacing him...

Not really fair comments from me, but I am peeved about JB lately. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:46 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
... Drivers like Button basically go to the teams that performed well the year before...
Renault 2001, BAR 2003, McLaren 2010. None of those three teams scored better than the team he left the previous season.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:14 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
... Drivers like Button basically go to the teams that performed well the year before...
Renault 2001, BAR 2003, McLaren 2010. None of those three teams scored better than the team he left the previous season.

In 2000 he was let go by Williams and in 2002 he was sacked by Renault so he had no choice, although he won the title for Brawn in 2009 in the second half of the season McLaren were stronger, also I believe there was a financial element around Brawn, for instance I believe he took a pay cut for 2009, so your examples do not refute what I said.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:18 pm 
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Usual BBC 'nothing' article.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:00 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
... Drivers like Button basically go to the teams that performed well the year before...
Renault 2001, BAR 2003, McLaren 2010. None of those three teams scored better than the team he left the previous season.

In 2000 he was let go by Williams and in 2002 he was sacked by Renault so he had no choice, although he won the title for Brawn in 2009 in the second half of the season McLaren were stronger, also I believe there was a financial element around Brawn, for instance I believe he took a pay cut for 2009, so your examples do not refute what I said.

So... drivers like Button but not Button himself

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 5:25 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
... Drivers like Button basically go to the teams that performed well the year before...
Renault 2001, BAR 2003, McLaren 2010. None of those three teams scored better than the team he left the previous season.

In 2000 he was let go by Williams and in 2002 he was sacked by Renault so he had no choice, although he won the title for Brawn in 2009 in the second half of the season McLaren were stronger, also I believe there was a financial element around Brawn, for instance I believe he took a pay cut for 2009, so your examples do not refute what I said.

So... drivers like Button but not Button himself

Did you totally not understand what I posted?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:34 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
I personally wish that JB would shut up about Hamilton because whatever he says lately makes him sound like sour grapes.
How about for once in your life helping to develop your own car JB? Seriously, the guy is one of the worst development drivers I can remember, wherever he goes the car usually ends up worse. Now 5 years at Mclaren and he has helped turning them into a back marker car. Mclaren should think about replacing him...

Not really fair comments from me, but I am peeved about JB lately. :lol:


Hamilton has talked a lot of crap about so many drivers in just the past few months. He claimed he is braver than Alonso and Vettel, who veto teammates, and he passed this of as factual information, as if he had seen all their contracts. He dissed Vettel, his teammates Webber and Raikkonen, he has dissed Rosberg, repeatedly insulting Rosberg's upbringing, and taunted him with "There's no wind this time" jibes, and has just looked pretty bad this year, dissing everyone in sight because he's a triple champion now.

When someone can big themselves up only by insulting every other legend and great driver in sight, it shows their character.

Holy cow, how did I forget him dissing Michael Schumacher, who isn't even in the condition to defend himself. Hamilton has fallen to extremely low moral standards this year, and what he is getting from Button is nothing. In fact, Vettel's recent reply, where he refused to fall for Hamilton's insults, joking about it and brushing it off. Shows a huge difference in class.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 9:57 pm 
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IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
He claimed he is braver than Alonso and Vettel, who veto teammates, and he passed this of as factual information, as if he had seen all their contracts.

Well, I'm waiting for the day Ferrari hire a direct challenger for Vettel. It isn't an uncommon suspicion.

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
When someone can big themselves up only by insulting every other legend and great driver in sight, it shows their character.

You see the strawman you want to see. Hamilton has had plenty of good things to say about others. It isn't as clickbaity so it doesn't get reported.

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Holy cow, how did I forget him dissing Michael Schumacher, who isn't even in the condition to defend himself. Hamilton has fallen to extremely low moral standards this year, and what he is getting from Button is nothing.

I've thoroughly debunked this already. Hamilton only slighted Schumacher for his 1994 and 1997 controversies saying he's never had to do anything like that to win a title. He has a point.

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
In fact, Vettel's recent reply, where he refused to fall for Hamilton's insults, joking about it and brushing it off. Shows a huge difference in class.

Strawman, seeing what you want to see. Vettel claimed that other teams weren't even trying in 2013, "balls in the pool" etc.

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Hamilton has talked a lot of crap about so many drivers in just the past few months.

It seem you a falling for a lot of clickbait rubbish and should do your research before you lay into your next rant.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:15 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
... Drivers like Button basically go to the teams that performed well the year before...
Renault 2001, BAR 2003, McLaren 2010. None of those three teams scored better than the team he left the previous season.

In 2000 he was let go by Williams and in 2002 he was sacked by Renault so he had no choice, although he won the title for Brawn in 2009 in the second half of the season McLaren were stronger, also I believe there was a financial element around Brawn, for instance I believe he took a pay cut for 2009, so your examples do not refute what I said.

So... drivers like Button but not Button himself

Did you totally not understand what I posted?
Understand what you may be trying to say but (i) not very well worded and (ii) it's not a strong case.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:18 pm 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Hamilton has talked a lot of crap about so many drivers in just the past few months.

It seem you a falling for a lot of clickbait rubbish and should do your research before you lay into your next rant.


How are articles published with Hamilton's exact quotes "Clickbait rubbish"? Well, despite your signature, I'm happy to see you accept that Hamilton's comments are rubbish. :-P


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:12 am 
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tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
Renault 2001, BAR 2003, McLaren 2010. None of those three teams scored better than the team he left the previous season.

In 2000 he was let go by Williams and in 2002 he was sacked by Renault so he had no choice, although he won the title for Brawn in 2009 in the second half of the season McLaren were stronger, also I believe there was a financial element around Brawn, for instance I believe he took a pay cut for 2009, so your examples do not refute what I said.

So... drivers like Button but not Button himself

Did you totally not understand what I posted?
Understand what you may be trying to say but (i) not very well worded and (ii) it's not a strong case.

Did Button have the choice to stay at either Williams or Renault, obviously drivers go to worse teams when they get dropped, how would the point be missed that given the choice Button would choose to go to a better team, I'm surprised I have to spell this out.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:29 am 
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pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Did you totally not understand what I posted?
Understand what you may be trying to say but (i) not very well worded and (ii) it's not a strong case.

Did Button have the choice to stay at either Williams or Renault, obviously drivers go to worse teams when they get dropped, how would the point be missed that given the choice Button would choose to go to a better team, I'm surprised I have to spell this out.

By saying that drivers like Button go to teams that were fast the year before implies that most of the times that Button himself changed teams he went to a team that was faster than the team he left.

So since he has only done that once in his career you point is invalidated.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:53 am 
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RaggedMan wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Did you totally not understand what I posted?
Understand what you may be trying to say but (i) not very well worded and (ii) it's not a strong case.

Did Button have the choice to stay at either Williams or Renault, obviously drivers go to worse teams when they get dropped, how would the point be missed that given the choice Button would choose to go to a better team, I'm surprised I have to spell this out.

By saying that drivers like Button go to teams that were fast the year before implies that most of the times that Button himself changed teams he went to a team that was faster than the team he left.

So since he has only done that once in his career you point is invalidated.

Twice in his career Button had the choice, when he drove for BAR Honda in 2005, and McLaren in 2010, why would we be talking about Button driving for worse teams after his was dropped from his previous teams, how is that relevant to Hamilton signing for Mercedes, did McLaren drop Hamilton and gave him no choice like what happened to Button?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:10 am 
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pokerman wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Did you totally not understand what I posted?
Understand what you may be trying to say but (i) not very well worded and (ii) it's not a strong case.

Did Button have the choice to stay at either Williams or Renault, obviously drivers go to worse teams when they get dropped, how would the point be missed that given the choice Button would choose to go to a better team, I'm surprised I have to spell this out.

By saying that drivers like Button go to teams that were fast the year before implies that most of the times that Button himself changed teams he went to a team that was faster than the team he left.

So since he has only done that once in his career you point is invalidated.

Twice in his career Button had the choice, when he drove for BAR Honda in 2005, and McLaren in 2010, why would we be talking about Button driving for worse teams after his was dropped from his previous teams, how is that relevant to Hamilton signing for Mercedes, did McLaren drop Hamilton and gave him no choice like what happened to Button?
You're having to spell it out because you didn't in your original argument, that simply stated that 'drivers like Button basically go to the teams that performed well the year before.' I hope you'll excuse me for interpreting this as being teams that performed better than teams he moved from and that I based this criteria on points scored in the season prior to him making such a switch. I also hope you'll excuse me for not realising that you were excluding team switches that were not through the driver's choice himself (e.g. 'farmed out' by Williams, dropped by Renault).
His failed attempt to move from BAR-Honda to Williams for the 2005 season was for a team that finished below BAR in 2004 and his move from Brawn to McLaren in 2010 to a team that finished below Brawn in 2009. Granted, the McLaren was the better-scoring car in the final four races of that season (but the development budget for Brawn was negligible compared to the 'big' teams, such as McLaren) but this was not the case fir BAR / Williams in 2004.
With that in mind, Button has had the choice to move to a 'better' team once in his career (and did so as world champion, so he had a fairly good bargaining chip). With respect, I still do not see your case as valid.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:14 am 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
He claimed he is braver than Alonso and Vettel, who veto teammates, and he passed this of as factual information, as if he had seen all their contracts.

Well, I'm waiting for the day Ferrari hire a direct challenger for Vettel. It isn't an uncommon suspicion.


Hamilton said that while Vettel was at RBR. A lot of people agreed. RBR brought Ricciardo in because they thought he was the best man for the job, Vettel did not use a veto, Ricciardo beat Vettel and RBR had no problems with that.

That the same has not happened at Ferrari after all of 1 season being there doesn't mean he has the veto now. Hamilton's statement was unfounded rubbish. One should be able to admit as much.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:55 am 
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Two things that struck me, though I add that I'm not aware of what Hamilton may have said about other drivers.
F1Tyrant wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
When someone can big themselves up only by insulting every other legend and great driver in sight, it shows their character.

You see the strawman you want to see. Hamilton has had plenty of good things to say about others. It isn't as clickbaity so it doesn't get reported.
If it doesn't get reported, how did you find out?

F1Tyrant wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Holy cow, how did I forget him dissing Michael Schumacher, who isn't even in the condition to defend himself. Hamilton has fallen to extremely low moral standards this year, and what he is getting from Button is nothing.

I've thoroughly debunked this already. Hamilton only slighted Schumacher for his 1994 and 1997 controversies saying he's never had to do anything like that to win a title. He has a point.
It's not because Schumacher is now unable to defend himself against criticism, that his career should no longer be discussed. What happened, happened, and is open to discussion. Hamilton may not be aware of what he has picked up from Schumacher, but some of his unacceptable behaviour - often passed off by commentators as hard but fair - stems directly from what Schumacher got away with.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:48 am 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
Article here based on quotes from the BBC's season review.

I really not sure what Button is trying to imply with these comments. Is he trying to reinforce the stereotype that Hamilton doesn't make rational decisions? The troubles Hamilton faced in 2012 were a big part of the reason that he left but he's also cites Brawn as the man who convinced him the Mercedes masterplan for 2014 would work.

Either way I think it's very sour eggs from Jenson. Of course it was rational to stay with McLaren for 2013 for Jenson, yet he wasn't privy to Mercedes' plans. History will show that he made the wrong choice by staying with the marquee team. Their horrifying fall from grace must anger him given he kicked the McLaren door down and got rid of their star.


I think you are trying to imply something.

There is no doubt that Lewis had an emotional year, on and off the track. He was getting fedup with the "You cant do this" by McLaren/Ron (shown by a recent interview with Lewis and Ron separately where Lewis has done pretty much what he wanted and Ron said he wouldn't at McLaren.

2012 was also the year where the whole Nicole episode was on/off/on/off and well like a Yo-Yo. He was getting fedup with the lack of top quality car that either had performance or reliability - rarely had both. Didn't help with the fact that on a good day his team mate was fighting him - as shown recently he doesn't like to get beat.

I love both Lewis and Button. Button is at the end of his F1 career, Lewis still has plenty. Button is happy in his personal life, being at that age where you know what you want, where you are going and generally a more laid back person. Lewis is not settling down and doesn't seem to want to think about that, he wants to enjoy life and has parties (again shown recently when he was a bit off as a result) but he is still young so why not.

It's getting a bit pathetic that so many people are reading too much in to what JB says. JB is an F1 driver but not only is he not racing at the front he is racing at the back with Alonso in a McLaren. Every time JB talks you can sense a feel of comedy or frustration - likewise for Alonso. Although Alonso feels maybe he has a bit longer than Button before he retires, he wants to win another championship and when he left Ferrari he left a team capable of fighting for something podium wise. Not fighting to keep the manor behind.

Lewis's switch was emotional and not based on "Car". He spent his life with McLaren, anyone who has had a job - especially career job - (Like me) at a place for a long time will use emotions to make the decisions. I've worked at a place for 10 Years and I can tell you, I was far too comfortable and it was an emotional decision to leave. When Lewis decided to leave I completely understood why he was leaving - I just questioned if he was going to a team that at the time was well behind McLaren with track performance.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:53 am 
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Teddy007 wrote:
as shown recently he doesn't like to get beat.

Teddy007 wrote:
he wants to enjoy life and has parties (again shown recently when he was a bit off as a result) but he is still young so why not.
If his partying shows through in his results, perhaps he should come to an unemotional conclusion about it.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:58 am 
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Teddy007 wrote:
It's getting a bit pathetic that so many people are reading too much in to what JB says. JB is an F1 driver but not only is he not racing at the front he is racing at the back with Alonso in a McLaren. Every time JB talks you can sense a feel of comedy or frustration - likewise for Alonso. Although Alonso feels maybe he has a bit longer than Button before he retires, he wants to win another championship and when he left Ferrari he left a team capable of fighting for something podium wise. Not fighting to keep the manor behind.

That's not true. I mean yeah it wasn't totally unrealistic to think Ferrari could reach the podium again in 2015 but he left a team that couldn't achieve it at the time

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:50 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
pokerman wrote:
tootsie323 wrote:
Understand what you may be trying to say but (i) not very well worded and (ii) it's not a strong case.

Did Button have the choice to stay at either Williams or Renault, obviously drivers go to worse teams when they get dropped, how would the point be missed that given the choice Button would choose to go to a better team, I'm surprised I have to spell this out.

By saying that drivers like Button go to teams that were fast the year before implies that most of the times that Button himself changed teams he went to a team that was faster than the team he left.

So since he has only done that once in his career you point is invalidated.

Twice in his career Button had the choice, when he drove for BAR Honda in 2005, and McLaren in 2010, why would we be talking about Button driving for worse teams after his was dropped from his previous teams, how is that relevant to Hamilton signing for Mercedes, did McLaren drop Hamilton and gave him no choice like what happened to Button?
You're having to spell it out because you didn't in your original argument, that simply stated that 'drivers like Button basically go to the teams that performed well the year before.' I hope you'll excuse me for interpreting this as being teams that performed better than teams he moved from and that I based this criteria on points scored in the season prior to him making such a switch. I also hope you'll excuse me for not realising that you were excluding team switches that were not through the driver's choice himself (e.g. 'farmed out' by Williams, dropped by Renault).
His failed attempt to move from BAR-Honda to Williams for the 2005 season was for a team that finished below BAR in 2004 and his move from Brawn to McLaren in 2010 to a team that finished below Brawn in 2009. Granted, the McLaren was the better-scoring car in the final four races of that season (but the development budget for Brawn was negligible compared to the 'big' teams, such as McLaren) but this was not the case fir BAR / Williams in 2004.
With that in mind, Button has had the choice to move to a 'better' team once in his career (and did so as world champion, so he had a fairly good bargaining chip). With respect, I still do not see your case as valid.

For starters why would Button going to worse teams after being dropped/sacked have any kind of validity to what I was saying? F1 is littered with drivers who went to worse teams after being sacked, that would be normal, would it not?

Secondly Button was not trying to join Williams, Williams had an option on him for the 2005 season but Button didn't want to drive for them because he had just finished 3rd in the WDC with his present team, so at considerable expense to himself he bought himself out of his Williams contract, ironically the BAR car was no better than the Williams car in 2005.

In 2009 the McLaren was not just quicker in the final 4 races it was quicker in the second half of the season were Hamilton scored more points then any other driver, he could easily have scored more if not for throwing away 3rd place in Italy and then losing the win at Abu Dhabi due to a mechanical failure. McLaren simply out developed the under financed Brawn team something that wouldn't have gone un noticed by Button.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:55 pm 
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mds wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
He claimed he is braver than Alonso and Vettel, who veto teammates, and he passed this of as factual information, as if he had seen all their contracts.

Well, I'm waiting for the day Ferrari hire a direct challenger for Vettel. It isn't an uncommon suspicion.


Hamilton said that while Vettel was at RBR. A lot of people agreed. RBR brought Ricciardo in because they thought he was the best man for the job, Vettel did not use a veto, Ricciardo beat Vettel and RBR had no problems with that.

That the same has not happened at Ferrari after all of 1 season being there doesn't mean he has the veto now. Hamilton's statement was unfounded rubbish. One should be able to admit as much.

I'd like to see that article again, I'm sure he said that Alonso asks for it but only thought that Vettel asks for it but he didn't know?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:01 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
It's getting a bit pathetic that so many people are reading too much in to what JB says. JB is an F1 driver but not only is he not racing at the front he is racing at the back with Alonso in a McLaren. Every time JB talks you can sense a feel of comedy or frustration - likewise for Alonso. Although Alonso feels maybe he has a bit longer than Button before he retires, he wants to win another championship and when he left Ferrari he left a team capable of fighting for something podium wise. Not fighting to keep the manor behind.

That's not true. I mean yeah it wasn't totally unrealistic to think Ferrari could reach the podium again in 2015 but he left a team that couldn't achieve it at the time

Yep that's true, I also pick up on the Button and frustration bit which might explain the constant need to undermine Hamilton?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:09 pm 
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I am a little disappointed in Jenson. Firstly a comment that could easily be construed as more of a rib at Rosberg, by perhaps implying that Rosberg isn't good enough to really challenge Hamilton.Then the Alonso is more of a challenge comment. And now this. I like Jenson but feel his latest string of comments are unnecessary. What are his motives? Jealousy? Sour grapes? Or a subtle reminder to Lewis that it doesn't do too well to become "over confident"? But now i have just read some complimentary comments from Jenson praising Hamilton's 2015 campaign, so who knows...

Motives aside, let's just look at what Jenson is actually saying. He seems to be implying that Lewis's now fabled decision to go to Mercedes is based on emotion. Well, i suppose that is partly true. There is no denying that Lewis was "unhappy" with certain things at McLaren. But, to base it purely on emotion is a little short-sighted. Lewis deserves some credit here. As of 2012, McLaren was a known entity, with a rich tradition of winning and a competitive car. Lewis had just reasserted his prowess over Jenson so there were strong arguments in favour of a stay at McLaren. In contrast, Mercedes on the other hand was an unknown entity,traditionally not as successful. This, combined with an almost universal condemnation of the move, there seemed to be stronger reasons for Lewis to stay, rather than go. So all credit to Lewis for being able to consider all the information presented to him by Lauda and Brawn and then weigh up those pros and cons. Yes, i suppose there is an element of "luck" involved-no one could have expected the Merc to become all conquering so rapidly. But hats off to Lewis for being able to rise above the tide of advice to stay, consider all the relevant information, and make that final decision.

For me, Former Mercedes CEO, Nick Fry's comments best sum it up:

"The big thing for me is that Lewis should be given the credit for the move, because he made the decision. He was smart enough to realise that the team that could design and develop the chassis and the power plant as one unit, with all the complexities that involved, would have a big advantage in 2014.”

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:25 pm 
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IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
How are articles published with Hamilton's exact quotes "Clickbait rubbish"?

It's horrendously lazy journalism. They have been taking a lot of driver's quotes out of context to make headlines. I could twist your own views to misrepresent you if I wanted to mine for quotes from your posts.

mds wrote:
Hamilton's statement was unfounded rubbish. One should be able to admit as much.

Vettel's silence on the subject doesn't refute the claims. It is still very much in doubt in his contract with Ferrari.

Fiki wrote:
If it doesn't get reported, how did you find out?

If you follow the paper trail you find the original interview and the context of the mined quotes. It's lazy journalism all round and I don't blame reader for not being as determined as me to find full un-editorialised interviews.

Fiki wrote:
Hamilton may not be aware of what he has picked up from Schumacher, but some of his unacceptable behaviour - often passed off by commentators as hard but fair - stems directly from what Schumacher got away with.

In the interview it's clear that he's referring only to 1997. Sadly, he also showed his stupidity by saying he felt more like Senna that Schumacher despite both being cut from the same cloth.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:05 pm 
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Hamilton leaving Mclaren in 2012 and Alonso leaving Ferrari in 2014 were under very similar circumstances. They had both seen enough from their respective teams and although the safer bet was staying, staying probably meant no titles as they had both seen there respective teams unable to win titles over at least 5 seasons and constantly fall short in more than one area. Mclaren was reliability/pit stops/strategy when they had the best car and Ferrari weren't able to ever produce a car, over a season capable of beating the Red Bull even though they had bulletproof cars.

Hamilton hit the jackpot and Alonso hit whatever the opposite to the jackpot is. Although to be fair Ferrari is no better than it was in 2010-2013 and only better than 2014. In fact it is further from the ultimate pace than it ever was 2010-2013 so even though Vettel took a few wins it is still just more of the same from them. The gamble still may pay off in, 2-3 seasons time if Alonso is still there...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:05 pm 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
Sadly, he also showed his stupidity by saying he felt more like Senna that Schumacher despite both being cut from the same cloth.


Stupidity? Perhaps an oversight or naivety, but let's not be re-enforcing that old stereotype please....Hamilton has come out with some questionable comments in his time, there's no denying that but he has also made some "smart decisions" in his time too. Lauda usually tells it like it is. Perhaps it would do well to remember Lauda's impression of Lewis as being a "clever, intelligent guy" who could make his own decisions...

Less of that old chestnut please.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:21 pm 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
Hamilton may not be aware of what he has picked up from Schumacher, but some of his unacceptable behaviour - often passed off by commentators as hard but fair - stems directly from what Schumacher got away with.

In the interview it's clear that he's referring only to 1997. Sadly, he also showed his stupidity by saying he felt more like Senna that Schumacher despite both being cut from the same cloth.
Actually Tyrant, that was my quote... :proud:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:25 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Hamilton leaving Mclaren in 2012 and Alonso leaving Ferrari in 2014 were under very similar circumstances. They had both seen enough from their respective teams and although the safer bet was staying, staying probably meant no titles as they had both seen there respective teams unable to win titles over at least 5 seasons and constantly fall short in more than one area. Mclaren was reliability/pit stops/strategy when they had the best car and Ferrari weren't able to ever produce a car, over a season capable of beating the Red Bull even though they had bulletproof cars.

Hamilton hit the jackpot and Alonso hit whatever the opposite to the jackpot is. Although to be fair Ferrari is no better than it was in 2010-2013 and only better than 2014. In fact it is further from the ultimate pace than it ever was 2010-2013 so even though Vettel took a few wins it is still just more of the same from them. The gamble still may pay off in, 2-3 seasons time if Alonso is still there...



There are those that perhaps will look at the career decisions that Alonso has made and unfortunately, hold that against his legacy. For me, it really shouldn't matter, as it's what a driver does on track that is the true measure. However, there are already questions about Alonso's perceived consistent poor decision making and how it will affect his long-term status.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:25 pm 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
Fiki wrote:
If it doesn't get reported, how did you find out?

If you follow the paper trail you find the original interview and the context of the mined quotes. It's lazy journalism all round and I don't blame reader for not being as determined as me to find full un-editorialised interviews.
So... it does get reported...

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